Re: NTFS defragging (was: Slow changing folders)

[Marck D. Pearlstone]

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Hi Marco,

On 29 September 2000 at 07:49:43 GMT -0400 (which was 12:49 where I
live) Marco Qualizza wrote and made these points on the subject
of "NTFS defragging (was: Slow changing folders)":

MQ> 

MQ> Actually, I hadn't even thought of the "usage criteria" aspect. I
MQ> don't think that OODefrag actually uses one, or if it does it's
MQ> not configurable, unlike, say, the one used by Norton's Speeddisk.
MQ> (Which means that defragging my 20 gig drive isn't too painful...)

MQ> Thanks for giving me something else to have to think about,
MQ> sheesh. ;-)

While  interesting this is *way* off-topic. Can you take it either  to
TBOT or off-list if you want to continue.

Thanks.

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Re[3]: NTFS defragging (was: Slow changing folders)

[Mark R Harding]

Marco,

Regarding your message dated: 29 September 2000...

MQ> I don't think that OODefrag actually uses one, or if it does it's
MQ> not configurable, unlike, say, the one used by Norton's Speeddisk.

If you investigate the various O&O defrag options, you can choose to
defrag the system by filename, date and so on. If you read the help
file you'll discover which scheme is most appropriate depending upon
the main function of the machine being defragmented.

Cheers,

Mark


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Re[2]: NTFS defragging (was: Slow changing folders)

[Marco Qualizza]

At 8:54:51 PM on Thursday, September 28, 2000, your quill inscribed unto the ether:

> the problem is that most of the more 'intelligent' defrag programs try
> not only to defrag but organise storage based on some usage criteria.



Actually, I hadn't even thought of the "usage criteria" aspect.  I don't
think that OODefrag actually uses one, or if it does it's not
configurable, unlike, say, the one used by Norton's Speeddisk.
(Which means that defragging my 20 gig drive isn't too painful...)

Thanks for giving me something else to have to think about, sheesh. ;-)

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Re: NTFS defragging (was: Slow changing folders)

[tracer]

Hello Marco Qualizza,
On Wed, 27 Sep 2000 15:24:45 -0400 GMT your local time,
which was Thursday, September 28, 2000, 2:24:45 AM (GMT+0700) my local time,
Marco Qualizza wrote:


>>> How do you defrag NTFS disks? Do you use DiskKeeper?

>> perfect disk.
>> And obviously MS claim is untrue(g).

> How well do DiskKeeper and Perfect Disk work?  If you've tried OODefrag
> (which is what I'm using), how do they work in comparison?  (OODefrag
> can be found at: http://www.oosoft.de/
> (http://www.oosoft.de/index-e.html for the english index)

the problem is that most of the more 'intelligent' defrag programs try
not only to defrag but organise storage based on some usage criteria.
And in general switching between one and the other ends up taking a
few months before you see the desired effect after which a user is
unlikely to go back to long lasting defrags to try another one...

Perfect disk  I have seen in use on several systems and if drives are
large with a lot of data especially in the begin defrag can last a
long time. But then I never stuck  a 15-30 gb drive in diskkeeper...
If large files are present like an Mpeg movie, a cloned drive, it can
take very long to defrag but after this 'usage' criteria has been
applied for a while it gets faster and faster.

Personally I have a feeling as long as you DO defrag, most products
likely show very little difference in daily usage..




Best regards,
 
tracer


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Re[2]: NTFS defragging (was: Slow changing folders)

[Marco Qualizza]

>> How do you defrag NTFS disks? Do you use DiskKeeper?

> perfect disk.
> And obviously MS claim is untrue(g).

How well do DiskKeeper and Perfect Disk work?  If you've tried OODefrag
(which is what I'm using), how do they work in comparison?  (OODefrag
can be found at: http://www.oosoft.de/
(http://www.oosoft.de/index-e.html for the english index)

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Re: NTFS defragging (was: Slow changing folders)

[tracer]

Hello Karin Spaink,
On Sun, 24 Sep 2000 20:45:09 +0200 GMT your local time,
which was Monday, September 25, 2000, 1:45:09 AM (GMT+0700) my local time,
Karin Spaink wrote:


> On 24-09-2000 at 20:33, Deryk Lister kindly wrote:

>>>  Nevertheless, I defrag my disk every month or so. The way output
>>> onto disk works, it makes good sense. ;-)

>> Using NTFS here, but it seems that Microsoft's old claims of it being
>> non-fraggable are untrue :)

> How do you defrag NTFS disks? Do you use DiskKeeper?

perfect disk.
And obviously MS claim is untrue(g).



> - K -



Best regards,
 
tracer


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Re: NTFS defragging (was: Slow changing folders)

[Mark Aston]

Hi Mark,

Sunday, September 24, 2000, 8:11:08 PM, you wrote:

MRH> As a point of interest... I believe that Win2K installs on an NTFS
MRH> cluster size of 4K by default so this should help prevent the same
MRH> type of problem occurring quite so readily - hooray for all users of
MRH> Win2K!

I think you'll find it can do 512 bytes, when I converted my FAT
partitions to NTFS I found they had lots more free megabytes:-)

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Re: Slow changing folders

[A . Curtis Martin]

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On Mon, 25 Sep 2000 13:52:21 +0800, Thomas Fernandez wrote:

DL>> Using NTFS here, but it seems that Microsoft's old claims of it being
DL>> non-fraggable are untrue :)

TF> I never used NT, so I would have to read up on NTFS. "Non-fraggable"?
TF> Never heard of it. How is that supposed to work (technically)? Where
TF> did they say this? I'll read up and comment. ;-)

I posted a reply to TBOT since this has now become off-topic.

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Re: Slow changing folders

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hi Deryk,

On Sun, 24 Sep 2000 19:33:08 +0100GMT (25/09/2000, 02:33 +0800GMT),
Deryk Lister wrote:

>>  Nevertheless, I defrag my disk every month or so. The way output
>> onto disk works, it makes good sense. ;-)

DL> Using NTFS here, but it seems that Microsoft's old claims of it being
DL> non-fraggable are untrue :)

I never used NT, so I would have to read up on NTFS. "Non-fraggable"?
Never heard of it. How is that supposed to work (technically)? Where
did they say this? I'll read up and comment. ;-)

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Re: NTFS defragging (was: Slow changing folders)

[Deryk Lister]

Hi Karin,
On Sunday 24/09/2000 at 19:45, you wrote:

>> Using NTFS here, but it seems that Microsoft's old claims of it being
>> non-fraggable are untrue :)

> How do you defrag NTFS disks? Do you use DiskKeeper?

I'm running Win2000, which finally has Defrag built in :)  It's
actually just a version of DiskKeeper that Microsoft licensed.

Just finished defragging it (I decided to after all) - Win2K doesn't
have as big a problem as NT4 apparently had, but it still gets
fragmented fairly quickly.  So once every month I'll kick Seti out of
the way and let it do a defrag overnight instead :)

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Re: NTFS defragging (was: Slow changing folders)

[Mark R Harding]

Karin,

Regarding your message dated: 24 September 2000...

>> Using NTFS here, but it seems that Microsoft's old claims of it being
>> non-fraggable are untrue :)

No - NTFS as implemented in Windows NT does fragment because (as far
as I understand it) it uses quite a large default cluster size on the
disk which means that very soon files are forced to fragment and the
only way to recover is to defragment.  It's particularly the MFT that
creates the most 'fragmenting' trouble so whatever you do you need a
defragmenter that will do the MFT as well.

KS> How do you defrag NTFS disks? Do you use DiskKeeper?

DiskKeeper works but it doesn't impress me much. I've settled upon
"O&O DeFrag" which is very nice. It has nice configurable abilities to
allow a 'quick defrag' now or a 'get down and dirty and do it really
well even if it takes allnight to optimise things perfectly' approach.
The scheduling is another well implemented feature and it can defrag
the pagefile and registry by default too on a reboot. You can also get
"O&O DefragMFT" which is a free little extra for doing the MFT by
itself - it can take a while on a dirty disc but it really is worth
it.

O&O Software is available from...

  http://www.oosoft.de/index-e.html

  (this is the link to the English site - the default is German if you
  remove the webpage reference but since I and this list are meant to
  speak English first and foremost...)

As a point of interest... I believe that Win2K installs on an NTFS
cluster size of 4K by default so this should help prevent the same
type of problem occurring quite so readily - hooray for all users of
Win2K!

Best Wishes,

Mark.

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NTFS defragging (was: Slow changing folders)

[Karin Spaink]

On 24-09-2000 at 20:33, Deryk Lister kindly wrote:

>>  Nevertheless, I defrag my disk every month or so. The way output
>> onto disk works, it makes good sense. ;-)

> Using NTFS here, but it seems that Microsoft's old claims of it being
> non-fraggable are untrue :)

How do you defrag NTFS disks? Do you use DiskKeeper?


- K -

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Re[2]: Slow changing folders

[Deryk Lister]

DL>> Now opens in half a second, and saved 98 megs!

>  Nevertheless, I defrag my disk every month or so. The way output
> onto disk works, it makes good sense. ;-)

Using NTFS here, but it seems that Microsoft's old claims of it being
non-fraggable are untrue :)

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Re: Slow changing folders

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hallo Deryk,

On Sun, 24 Sep 2000 14:53:16 +0100 GMT (24/09/2000, 21:53 +0800 GMT),
Deryk Lister wrote:

>> My inbox has only 233 messages in it, but when I switch to it from a
>> different folder it can sit chugging at the disk for 10-15 seconds
>> before actually showing the contents!  Perhaps it's fragmented or
>> something, is there a command to 'defrag' the database?  I don't
>> fancy devoting the day to Windows defragging the whole disk.

DL> Doh nevermind, found the "compress all folders" menu item :)  Was half
DL> expecting a ctrl-shift-alt-win-q or something, hehe.

DL> Now opens in half a second, and saved 98 megs!

 Nevertheless, I defrag my disk every month or so. The way output
onto disk works, it makes good sense. ;-)

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Re: Slow changing folders

[Deryk Lister]

> My inbox has only 233 messages in it, but when I switch to it from a
> different folder it can sit chugging at the disk for 10-15 seconds
> before actually showing the contents!  Perhaps it's fragmented or
> something, is there a command to 'defrag' the database?  I don't
> fancy devoting the day to Windows defragging the whole disk.

Doh nevermind, found the "compress all folders" menu item :)  Was half
expecting a ctrl-shift-alt-win-q or something, hehe.

Now opens in half a second, and saved 98 megs!

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Slow changing folders

[Deryk Lister]

I'm sure this was mentioned before, but can't find where.

My inbox has only 233 messages in it, but when I switch to it from a
different folder it can sit chugging at the disk for 10-15 seconds
before actually showing the contents!  Perhaps it's fragmented or
something, is there a command to 'defrag' the database?  I don't fancy
devoting the day to Windows defragging the whole disk.

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