Re: [Texascavers] test

[Mark]

Thank you. Got it. 

On Sunday, April 25, 2021, 09:25:10 AM CDT, Sheryl Rieck 
 wrote:  
 
 Did I pass?

Sheryl riecksheryl.ri...@gmail.com
"You can't always get what you want but if you try sometime, you just might 
find you get what you need" Rolling Stones

On Apr 24, 2021, at 11:32 PM, Mark  wrote:



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Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] Cavers

[Bob Booth]

A void of cavers?


On Sun, Apr 25, 2021 at 4:46 PM Lee H. Skinner  wrote:

> Thanks, Carol.
>
>
> We now have 37 entries.  I've attached the list here.  If the JPEG
> attachment is scrubbed from the Texas list, you can see it in the SWR list.
>
>
> Lee
>
>
> On 4/25/2021 2:23 PM, 'C Tiderman' via Southwestern Cavers of the National
> Speleological Society wrote:
>
> scientist - a query of cavers
> divers - a splash of cavers
> novices - a wonder of cavers
>
>
> Carol
>
> il.yahoo.com
> 
> .
>
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Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] Cavers

[Lee H. Skinner]

Hi, Amy.


Not a separate name for cavechildren for this particular contest.  You 
are cavers just like the adults!  But you all can think of yourselves as 
*minicrawlers*, a great name I think, because many of you guys are small 
enough to go through unexplored crawls and find things that adults will 
have to dig out the floor more to get through to see whatever you found 
beyond the crawl! Minicrawlers have been very important and very 
successful in finding new cave.  So do you agree with that name?



Lee



On 4/25/2021 3:10 PM, Amy Jasek wrote:

What about the children of cavers?  Do we get a name? 😄

Sent from my iPhone


On Apr 25, 2021, at 4:02 PM, Lee H. Skinner  wrote:

Thanks, Mark.


Excellent article on plural nouns. I encourage all here to read it:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/a-drudge-of-lexicographers-presents-collective-nouns/common-collectives


Lee



On 4/25/2021 7:57 AM, Mark Minton wrote:
These collective nouns for different groups of animals are called "terms of venery". 
They originated among hunters back in the middle ages. See 
.

Mark M

-Original Message-
From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Lee 
H. Skinner
Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2021 1:33 AM
To: swrcav...@googlegroups.com; Texas Cavers; Sandia Grotto
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] Cavers

Donald,

You're right - maybe it's a silly venture - maybe cavers will refuse to
adopt the noun after the contest - but it's a fun thing to do anyway,
and it exhibits a little creativity that we can share among ourselves,
and maybe a few laughs in these days when real caving is limited.  So
let's see what we wind up with.  The future is unwritten.

Lee


On 4/24/2021 10:47 PM, DONALD G. DAVIS wrote:

On Sat, 24 Apr 2021, Lee H. Skinner wrote:
Thanks, Mimi!

Very cute essay.

But there will be only one winner and no 2nd or 3rd place winners.  I
will announce the number of votes each name got, and if there is no
majority, I will hold a runoff vote (there is no reason to rush it
through).

So the term will refer to all cavers, not different types of cavers.
You have a herd of longhorns, not packs of Angus or schools of
Herefords.  The purpose of the survey is to get cavers to start using
the winning term enough (when appropriate) so that it get ingrained
in cavers' minds such that it will become automatically used
throughput the world caving community , eventually becoming
mainstream in time so that the noun will get into dictionaries.

 I've stayed out of this so far, because I've never been a fan of
weird collective names for particular animals like "murder" of crows,
but here's my two cents' worth.  I've always thought that "team" of
cavers is perfectly satisfactory, at least for project caving.  I
can't foresee an eccentric group name actually catching on among
active cavers--what would they need it for?  Seems as if it would just
complicate communication.  I suspect that these oddities got their
start among farmers who kept several kinds of livestock and could
shorten their talk if every species had its unique flock term--or in
class societies where each class had a name like "Untouchables" or
"Brahmins"--but it's hard to see how this fits cavers.

 --Donald

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Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] Cavers

[Amy Jasek]

What about the children of cavers?  Do we get a name? 😄

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 25, 2021, at 4:02 PM, Lee H. Skinner  wrote:
> 
> Thanks, Mark.
> 
> 
> Excellent article on plural nouns. I encourage all here to read it:
> 
> https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/a-drudge-of-lexicographers-presents-collective-nouns/common-collectives
> 
> 
> Lee
> 
> 
>> On 4/25/2021 7:57 AM, Mark Minton wrote:
>> These collective nouns for different groups of animals are called "terms of 
>> venery". They originated among hunters back in the middle ages. See 
>> .
>> 
>> Mark M
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of 
>> Lee H. Skinner
>> Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2021 1:33 AM
>> To: swrcav...@googlegroups.com; Texas Cavers; Sandia Grotto
>> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] Cavers
>> 
>> Donald,
>> 
>> You're right - maybe it's a silly venture - maybe cavers will refuse to
>> adopt the noun after the contest - but it's a fun thing to do anyway,
>> and it exhibits a little creativity that we can share among ourselves,
>> and maybe a few laughs in these days when real caving is limited.  So
>> let's see what we wind up with.  The future is unwritten.
>> 
>> Lee
>> 
>>> On 4/24/2021 10:47 PM, DONALD G. DAVIS wrote:
 On Sat, 24 Apr 2021, Lee H. Skinner wrote:
>>> 
 Thanks, Mimi!
 
 Very cute essay.
 
 But there will be only one winner and no 2nd or 3rd place winners.  I
 will announce the number of votes each name got, and if there is no
 majority, I will hold a runoff vote (there is no reason to rush it
 through).
 
 So the term will refer to all cavers, not different types of cavers.
 You have a herd of longhorns, not packs of Angus or schools of
 Herefords.  The purpose of the survey is to get cavers to start using
 the winning term enough (when appropriate) so that it get ingrained
 in cavers' minds such that it will become automatically used
 throughput the world caving community , eventually becoming
 mainstream in time so that the noun will get into dictionaries.
>>> I've stayed out of this so far, because I've never been a fan of
>>> weird collective names for particular animals like "murder" of crows,
>>> but here's my two cents' worth.  I've always thought that "team" of
>>> cavers is perfectly satisfactory, at least for project caving.  I
>>> can't foresee an eccentric group name actually catching on among
>>> active cavers--what would they need it for?  Seems as if it would just
>>> complicate communication.  I suspect that these oddities got their
>>> start among farmers who kept several kinds of livestock and could
>>> shorten their talk if every species had its unique flock term--or in
>>> class societies where each class had a name like "Untouchables" or
>>> "Brahmins"--but it's hard to see how this fits cavers.
>>> 
>>> --Donald
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Southwestern Cavers of the National Speleological Society" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to swrcavers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/swrcavers/147d5ad5-db94-0091-c499-5b88544f7bc7%40thuntek.net.
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Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] Cavers

[Lee H. Skinner]

Thanks, Mark.


Excellent article on plural nouns. I encourage all here to read it:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/a-drudge-of-lexicographers-presents-collective-nouns/common-collectives


Lee


On 4/25/2021 7:57 AM, Mark Minton wrote:

These collective nouns for different groups of animals are called "terms of venery". 
They originated among hunters back in the middle ages. See 
.

Mark M

-Original Message-
From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Lee 
H. Skinner
Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2021 1:33 AM
To: swrcav...@googlegroups.com; Texas Cavers; Sandia Grotto
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] Cavers

Donald,

You're right - maybe it's a silly venture - maybe cavers will refuse to
adopt the noun after the contest - but it's a fun thing to do anyway,
and it exhibits a little creativity that we can share among ourselves,
and maybe a few laughs in these days when real caving is limited.  So
let's see what we wind up with.  The future is unwritten.

Lee

On 4/24/2021 10:47 PM, DONALD G. DAVIS wrote:

On Sat, 24 Apr 2021, Lee H. Skinner wrote:


Thanks, Mimi!

Very cute essay.

But there will be only one winner and no 2nd or 3rd place winners.  I
will announce the number of votes each name got, and if there is no
majority, I will hold a runoff vote (there is no reason to rush it
through).

So the term will refer to all cavers, not different types of cavers.
You have a herd of longhorns, not packs of Angus or schools of
Herefords.  The purpose of the survey is to get cavers to start using
the winning term enough (when appropriate) so that it get ingrained
in cavers' minds such that it will become automatically used
throughput the world caving community , eventually becoming
mainstream in time so that the noun will get into dictionaries.

 I've stayed out of this so far, because I've never been a fan of
weird collective names for particular animals like "murder" of crows,
but here's my two cents' worth.  I've always thought that "team" of
cavers is perfectly satisfactory, at least for project caving.  I
can't foresee an eccentric group name actually catching on among
active cavers--what would they need it for?  Seems as if it would just
complicate communication.  I suspect that these oddities got their
start among farmers who kept several kinds of livestock and could
shorten their talk if every species had its unique flock term--or in
class societies where each class had a name like "Untouchables" or
"Brahmins"--but it's hard to see how this fits cavers.

 --Donald

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Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] Cavers

[Lee H. Skinner]

Thanks, Carol.


We now have 37 entries.  I've attached the list here.  If the JPEG 
attachment is scrubbed from the Texas list, you can see it in the SWR list.



Lee


On 4/25/2021 2:23 PM, 'C Tiderman' via Southwestern Cavers of the 
National Speleological Society wrote:

scientist - a query of cavers
divers - a splash of cavers
novices - a wonder of cavers


Carol

il.yahoo.com 
.
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Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] Cavers

[Nancy Weaver]

  a derangement of cavers.  or at least they were when I started in the late 
70’s
N
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Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] Cavers

[Mimi Jasek]

Mark,

Thank you for that. I read the whole article and found it wonderful and 
entertaining!

In regards to our little collective noun contest, this toward the end of the 
article stood out.

“Language lovers adore collective nouns, but most of them don't meet the 
criteria for entry. For lexicographers, a word hasn't fully entered the 
language until it's used consistently in running prose without any sort of 
parenthetical explanation or gloss, and many of these terms haven't. How often 
does one need to refer, for instance, to a group of brewers or butchers?...”

But, we are cavers, full of wit, knowledge, and collective fun, so who knows 
what will happen? I for one am looking forward to the results.

Mimi Jasek

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 25, 2021, at 8:57 AM, Mark Minton  wrote:
> 
> These collective nouns for different groups of animals are called "terms of 
> venery". They originated among hunters back in the middle ages. See 
> .
> 
> Mark M
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of 
> Lee H. Skinner
> Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2021 1:33 AM
> To: swrcav...@googlegroups.com; Texas Cavers; Sandia Grotto
> Subject: Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] Cavers
> 
> Donald,
> 
> You're right - maybe it's a silly venture - maybe cavers will refuse to 
> adopt the noun after the contest - but it's a fun thing to do anyway, 
> and it exhibits a little creativity that we can share among ourselves, 
> and maybe a few laughs in these days when real caving is limited.  So 
> let's see what we wind up with.  The future is unwritten.
> 
> Lee
> 
>> On 4/24/2021 10:47 PM, DONALD G. DAVIS wrote:
>>> On Sat, 24 Apr 2021, Lee H. Skinner wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thanks, Mimi!
>>> 
>>> Very cute essay.
>>> 
>>> But there will be only one winner and no 2nd or 3rd place winners.  I 
>>> will announce the number of votes each name got, and if there is no 
>>> majority, I will hold a runoff vote (there is no reason to rush it 
>>> through).
>>> 
>>> So the term will refer to all cavers, not different types of cavers.  
>>> You have a herd of longhorns, not packs of Angus or schools of 
>>> Herefords.  The purpose of the survey is to get cavers to start using 
>>> the winning term enough (when appropriate) so that it get ingrained 
>>> in cavers' minds such that it will become automatically used 
>>> throughput the world caving community , eventually becoming 
>>> mainstream in time so that the noun will get into dictionaries.
>> 
>>I've stayed out of this so far, because I've never been a fan of 
>> weird collective names for particular animals like "murder" of crows, 
>> but here's my two cents' worth.  I've always thought that "team" of 
>> cavers is perfectly satisfactory, at least for project caving.  I 
>> can't foresee an eccentric group name actually catching on among 
>> active cavers--what would they need it for?  Seems as if it would just 
>> complicate communication.  I suspect that these oddities got their 
>> start among farmers who kept several kinds of livestock and could 
>> shorten their talk if every species had its unique flock term--or in 
>> class societies where each class had a name like "Untouchables" or 
>> "Brahmins"--but it's hard to see how this fits cavers.
>> 
>>--Donald
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "Southwestern Cavers of the National Speleological Society" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to swrcavers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/swrcavers/046301d739da%24f53ba6e0%24dfb2f4a0%24%40caver.net.
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Re: [Texascavers] test

[Sheryl Rieck]

Did I pass?

Sheryl Rieck
sheryl.ri...@gmail.com

"You can't always get what you want but if you try sometime, you just might 
find you get what you need" Rolling Stones

> On Apr 24, 2021, at 11:32 PM, Mark  wrote:
> 
> 
> test
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Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] Cavers

[Mark Minton]

These collective nouns for different groups of animals are called "terms of 
venery". They originated among hunters back in the middle ages. See 
.

Mark M

-Original Message-
From: Texascavers [mailto:texascavers-boun...@texascavers.com] On Behalf Of Lee 
H. Skinner
Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2021 1:33 AM
To: swrcav...@googlegroups.com; Texas Cavers; Sandia Grotto
Subject: Re: [Texascavers] [SWR CAVERS] Cavers

Donald,

You're right - maybe it's a silly venture - maybe cavers will refuse to 
adopt the noun after the contest - but it's a fun thing to do anyway, 
and it exhibits a little creativity that we can share among ourselves, 
and maybe a few laughs in these days when real caving is limited.  So 
let's see what we wind up with.  The future is unwritten.

Lee

On 4/24/2021 10:47 PM, DONALD G. DAVIS wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Apr 2021, Lee H. Skinner wrote:
>
>> Thanks, Mimi!
>>
>> Very cute essay.
>>
>> But there will be only one winner and no 2nd or 3rd place winners.  I 
>> will announce the number of votes each name got, and if there is no 
>> majority, I will hold a runoff vote (there is no reason to rush it 
>> through).
>>
>> So the term will refer to all cavers, not different types of cavers.  
>> You have a herd of longhorns, not packs of Angus or schools of 
>> Herefords.  The purpose of the survey is to get cavers to start using 
>> the winning term enough (when appropriate) so that it get ingrained 
>> in cavers' minds such that it will become automatically used 
>> throughput the world caving community , eventually becoming 
>> mainstream in time so that the noun will get into dictionaries.
>
> I've stayed out of this so far, because I've never been a fan of 
> weird collective names for particular animals like "murder" of crows, 
> but here's my two cents' worth.  I've always thought that "team" of 
> cavers is perfectly satisfactory, at least for project caving.  I 
> can't foresee an eccentric group name actually catching on among 
> active cavers--what would they need it for?  Seems as if it would just 
> complicate communication.  I suspect that these oddities got their 
> start among farmers who kept several kinds of livestock and could 
> shorten their talk if every species had its unique flock term--or in 
> class societies where each class had a name like "Untouchables" or 
> "Brahmins"--but it's hard to see how this fits cavers.
>
> --Donald

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