Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom Z3809A, Z3810A, Z3811A, Z3812A GPSDO system
Hi First of a few more data plots (sorry if any are duplicates): This is the TDEV of a 3810 against a 5071 and a 3801 run at the same time against the same cesium standard. At its current filter setting, the 3810 is doing a bit better than the 3801 long term. The 3801 is beating the 3810 by a bit around 100 seconds. Both are better than the 5071 at 1 second. tdev on two.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom Z3809A, Z3810A, Z3811A, Z3812A GPSDO system
Hi So here’s the same data on the 15 MHz and 10 MHz output’s on a single box. The phase plot shows that there is indeed some sort of spur coming and going on at least one of the inputs. Based on the plot of the 10 MHz output from a couple weeks back, it’s a good bet that the spur is on 10 MHz. It also shows that there would be “good times” and “bad times” to use the 10 MHz output. Your results using this as a reference would be very different around 3,000 seconds compared to around 5,000 seconds. Bob phase 15 vs 10.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom Z3809A, Z3810A, Z3811A, Z3812A GPSDO system
Hi Ok, this one is a little different. It’s the ADEV between the 10 MHz and 15 MHz outputs on the same box. If both were a perfect multiplication of the 5 MHz OCXO, the plot would be much lower from 0.1 to 10 seconds. There’s something getting in the way of perfection. Bob adev 15 vs 10.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay KS-24361 may be gone. I emailed ASI to confirm.
Can you send me the link to this site ? Thanks, Dick, W1KSZ On 11/17/2014 7:00 AM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi At least today, it looks like the auction listing is still up and going. He shows 44 sold and more than 10 available. Price for a pair is the same $150 as it was last week. They do seem to be selling at a faster rate than two weeks ago. If indeed you want another one, I’d say it’s worth at least counting the pennies in the piggy bank to see if you can afford it. I’m not quite sure it’s to the “order in the next 10 minutes” point. At some point these will be gone. Bob On Nov 14, 2014, at 2:34 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Was thinking about another. Regards Paul WB8TSL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay KS-24361 may be gone. I emailed ASI to confirm.
Hi The auction is going on at the usual site. The item number is 321560316836. A text search on the site for “Lucent GPSDO” turns it and any similar listings up pretty quickly. A search for KS-24361 will turn it up and probably is a good idea to find other sellers that might have the same thing. Bob On Nov 17, 2014, at 10:12 AM, Richard Solomon w1...@earthlink.net wrote: Can you send me the link to this site ? Thanks, Dick, W1KSZ On 11/17/2014 7:00 AM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi At least today, it looks like the auction listing is still up and going. He shows 44 sold and more than 10 available. Price for a pair is the same $150 as it was last week. They do seem to be selling at a faster rate than two weeks ago. If indeed you want another one, I’d say it’s worth at least counting the pennies in the piggy bank to see if you can afford it. I’m not quite sure it’s to the “order in the next 10 minutes” point. At some point these will be gone. Bob On Nov 14, 2014, at 2:34 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Was thinking about another. Regards Paul WB8TSL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay KS-24361 may be gone. I emailed ASI to confirm.
Hi For what ever reason, the one seller no longer is listing the GPS only units. My guess: These were spares sitting in some depot in Atlanta for 15 years. Maybe 15 of the Ref-0’s died in the field and got replaced over the 15 years. Only 3 of the Ref-1’s died. Thus they had more Ref 1’s in the depot. That seems odd. A better guess is that when a REF-1 died, it looked like both units were defective and the pair got swapped. Either way the surplus lot had a few extra Ref 1’s in it. I don’t think the people selling these know much about them and how the two boxes do or do not work together. They are just boxes in the front door that they need to push out the back door. No more un-matched pairs, no more Ref-0’s for sale. No, it’s not the way any of us would do it. We understand a lot more about the relative value of the two boxes. That said, it’s still a good deal at $150 for the pair. I’m pretty sure at this point that getting the Ref-0 running as a standalone GPSDO running a modern GPS module is *way* cheaper (and less work) than any of the home built GPSDO projects. I’m quite sure that the enhanced Ref-0 would work as well as and likely better than the Ref-1 does. It also would have a handy 10 MHz output if you didn’t want to modify the 15 MHz output. Bob On Nov 17, 2014, at 9:15 AM, Bert Kehren via time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com wrote: But if you bought only the -1 unit and it is defective they will not replace only refund! In a message dated 11/17/2014 9:01:13 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, kb...@n1k.org writes: Hi At least today, it looks like the auction listing is still up and going. He shows 44 sold and more than 10 available. Price for a pair is the same $150 as it was last week. They do seem to be selling at a faster rate than two weeks ago. If indeed you want another one, I’d say it’s worth at least counting the pennies in the piggy bank to see if you can afford it. I’m not quite sure it’s to the “order in the next 10 minutes” point. At some point these will be gone. Bob On Nov 14, 2014, at 2:34 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Was thinking about another. Regards Paul WB8TSL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay KS-24361 may be gone. I emailed ASI to confirm.
dick Here is the $150 pair http://www.ebay.com/itm/LUCENT-SYMMETRICOM-Z3810AS-KS24361-L101-L102-HP-KIO-OEM-GPSDO-TIMING-SYSTEM-/321560316836?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item4ade7d0ba4 Watch out there are several people selling the ref 0 for less. These do noit have the gps module. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 10:12 AM, Richard Solomon w1...@earthlink.net wrote: Can you send me the link to this site ? Thanks, Dick, W1KSZ On 11/17/2014 7:00 AM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi At least today, it looks like the auction listing is still up and going. He shows 44 sold and more than 10 available. Price for a pair is the same $150 as it was last week. They do seem to be selling at a faster rate than two weeks ago. If indeed you want another one, I’d say it’s worth at least counting the pennies in the piggy bank to see if you can afford it. I’m not quite sure it’s to the “order in the next 10 minutes” point. At some point these will be gone. Bob On Nov 14, 2014, at 2:34 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Was thinking about another. Regards Paul WB8TSL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom Z3809A, Z3810A, Z3811A, Z3812A GPSDO system
Hi Here’s a comparison of the EBSCTM, the 3801 and the 3811 all on one page. Everything inside 10 seconds is the 5071 that is the comparison standard. Bob adev on three.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom Z3809A, Z3810A, Z3811A, Z3812A GPSDO system
HI This one is one of the more significant ones. It shows two Z3810/11/12’s each running against the 5071. It also shows the two running against each other. All are on the 15 MHz output. There are two pretty obvious conclusions: 1) From 0.3 to about 30 seconds the GPSDO’s are better than the 5071. The 5071 is a *great* box, it’s just not as good in this region. 2) Over the region that the 5071 is better than the GPSDO’s, their ADEV does appear (by eyeball) to sum as the square root of the ADEV’s. If number 2 is correct and it applies to the 1 to 10 second region, over much of the range, the GPSDO’s are doing =1x10^-12. That’s pretty darn good. This one is a low res JPEG. The PDF version was a bit large. Bob ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom Z3809A, Z3810A, Z3811A, Z3812A GPSDO system
Bob, how is the PN? Glad that after 100s of emails about the serial port on this unit finally someone is finally posting some real data. Still surprised that the ADEV is not as good as the 58503A units I got on eBay. Sent From iPhone On Nov 17, 2014, at 8:22, Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org wrote: Hi Here’s a comparison of the EBSCTM, the 3801 and the 3811 all on one page. Everything inside 10 seconds is the 5071 that is the comparison standard. Bob adev on three.pdf ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay KS-24361 may be gone. I emailed ASI to confirm.
Hi Some quick ways to spot the one with the GPS: It has a big fat silver colored TNC connector on the left side of the front panel. The one without the GPS has a gold SMA. The one with the GPS is labeled REF-1 in the upper right corner. The one without the GPS is labeled REF-0 in the upper right corner. It would not surprise me much (it’s an auction site ….) to find listings popping up talking about the GPS unit and actually showing / selling the one without the GPS. That has not happened yet (that I’ve seen). It could be coming as other sellers (Bob’s GPSDO’s of Bulgaria) pop up with listings. Bob On Nov 17, 2014, at 10:30 AM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: dick Here is the $150 pair http://www.ebay.com/itm/LUCENT-SYMMETRICOM-Z3810AS-KS24361-L101-L102-HP-KIO-OEM-GPSDO-TIMING-SYSTEM-/321560316836?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item4ade7d0ba4 Watch out there are several people selling the ref 0 for less. These do noit have the gps module. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 10:12 AM, Richard Solomon w1...@earthlink.net wrote: Can you send me the link to this site ? Thanks, Dick, W1KSZ On 11/17/2014 7:00 AM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi At least today, it looks like the auction listing is still up and going. He shows 44 sold and more than 10 available. Price for a pair is the same $150 as it was last week. They do seem to be selling at a faster rate than two weeks ago. If indeed you want another one, I’d say it’s worth at least counting the pennies in the piggy bank to see if you can afford it. I’m not quite sure it’s to the “order in the next 10 minutes” point. At some point these will be gone. Bob On Nov 14, 2014, at 2:34 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Was thinking about another. Regards Paul WB8TSL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom Z3809A, Z3810A, Z3811A, Z3812A GPSDO system
Hi This one is the frequency difference between the 10 MHz and 15 MHz output on one Z3810/11/12 box. It’s a direct result of the phase changes seen on another plot earlier in this series. Any time you have phase modulation, you have frequency modulation …. Just to be very clear- there is no additional reference in this case, it’s just looking at the two outputs. Bob freq 15 vs 10.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom Z3809A, Z3810A, Z3811A, Z3812A GPSDO system
Hi I *think* I posted the phase noise plots earlier. I’ll dig them up and post if I forgot. To many years and not enough coffee …. Check the last JPEG image. It takes out the ADEV from the 5071 that is part of the earlier plots. Bob On Nov 17, 2014, at 11:47 AM, Said Jackson via time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com wrote: Bob, how is the PN? Glad that after 100s of emails about the serial port on this unit finally someone is finally posting some real data. Still surprised that the ADEV is not as good as the 58503A units I got on eBay. Sent From iPhone On Nov 17, 2014, at 8:22, Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org wrote: Hi Here’s a comparison of the EBSCTM, the 3801 and the 3811 all on one page. Everything inside 10 seconds is the 5071 that is the comparison standard. Bob adev on three.pdf ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 J6 connector
read this on: http://www.realhamradio.com/gps-satstat-software.htm When you first turn on the Z3816A GPS receiver, it is always continuously sending time. There are two commands you need to use: one to put it into the SCPI command mode, the other to switch it back to sending time. The two commands are: To go to the SCPI mode: ptim:tcod:cont 0 To go to the continuous time mode: ptim:tcod:cont 1 this holds true also on the J6 (RS422/1PPS) connector of the Lucent KS-24361 Z3811 and maybe Z3812 ( watchout there is no !! echo if you are using a terminal software but Z3811.exe works fine). cheers Götz ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361 J6 connector
HI Ok, that’s very cool If you can hit all the SCPI stuff *and* the PPS on the one connector, there is no need to wire to the DIAG port at all. Thanks! Bob On Nov 17, 2014, at 11:55 AM, Götz Romahn go...@g-romahn.de wrote: read this on: http://www.realhamradio.com/gps-satstat-software.htm When you first turn on the Z3816A GPS receiver, it is always continuously sending time. There are two commands you need to use: one to put it into the SCPI command mode, the other to switch it back to sending time. The two commands are: To go to the SCPI mode: ptim:tcod:cont 0 To go to the continuous time mode: ptim:tcod:cont 1 this holds true also on the J6 (RS422/1PPS) connector of the Lucent KS-24361 Z3811 and maybe Z3812 ( watchout there is no !! echo if you are using a terminal software but Z3811.exe works fine). cheers Götz ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom Z3809A, Z3810A, Z3811A, Z3812A GPSDO system
Hi Ok, so I *forgot* to post the phase noise plots. At least a quick check does not show them on my copy of posts back from the list. First one is the phase noise on the 10 MHz output. To say the least, it’s pretty rotten. There are a bunch of spurs out to at least 10 KHz. The reference is a ULN, so the data is all real. Bob 10 MHz phase noise vs ULN.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom Z3809A, Z3810A, Z3811A, Z3812A GPSDO system
Hi Here’s the phase noise on the 15 MHz. There are a few spurs, and an very real hump out at the likely frequency of the Lucent switcher. The 15 MHz is pretty clean compared to most /all of the other units I’ve seen on the surplus market. I would not multiply this up to 40 GHz with a broadband multiplier. I would be quite happy to run it into a PLL with a rational bandwidth. You will beat the noise on the output with a fairly simple VHF VCXO past 100 Hz. No reason to have a bandwidth outside the 20 to 80 Hz range. Math: 15 MHz to 150 MHz - 20 log (N) - 20 db. -140 dbc / Hz shown below at 100 Hz offset - -120 dbc/Hz You can get numbers better than -120 dbc/Hz at 100 Hz offset out of a number of pretty simple VHF VCXO circuits. Bert has one that seems to work fine for him. Bob 15 MHz phase noise vs ULN.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] LTE-Lite order
Hello everyone, some info to the hole list for folks who missed out on the 20MHz LTE-Lite Evaluation kits: The 20MHz units shipped-out last week to all of you who ordered and should arrive shortly. Also, we have received feedback from the 10MHz TCXO factory that TCXOs will ship to us sooner than first quoted, so we just reduced the lead-time for the 10MHz DIP-14 TCXO units on eBay to four weeks from today. We also were able to increase the number available if anyone else is interested. Thanks again everyone, Said ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom Z3809A, Z3810A, Z3811A, Z3812...
Hi Bob, yes, the 10MHz plot is rotten, no doubt. The 15MHz plot is quite good till about 40Hz offset, then it becomes pretty rotten too. Here is one of my 58503A units (using the 10811 OCXO) as a comparison.. measured against our DROR-IIA (this plot was actually done to show the DROR-IIA PN, but since that unit actually has less noise and spurs than the 58503A we can simply use it as the reference for this purpose). The good news is that getting the close-in phase noise to be good is very hard to do and the unit delivers that out-of-the box already. Filtering out the noise and spurs above 40Hz offset is pretty easy to do. It should be fairly straight forward to cobble up a small PN filter for those units to get rid of the noise and spurs above 40Hz offset. bye, Said In a message dated 11/17/2014 09:31:46 Pacific Standard Time, kb...@n1k.org writes: Hi Here’s the phase noise on the 15 MHz. There are a few spurs, and an very real hump out at the likely frequency of the Lucent switcher. The 15 MHz is pretty clean compared to most /all of the other units I’ve seen on the surplus market. I would not multiply this up to 40 GHz with a broadband multiplier. I would be quite happy to run it into a PLL with a rational bandwidth. You will beat the noise on the output with a fairly simple VHF VCXO past 100 Hz. No reason to have a bandwidth outside the 20 to 80 Hz range. Math: 15 MHz to 150 MHz - 20 log (N) - 20 db. -140 dbc / Hz shown below at 100 Hz offset - -120 dbc/Hz You can get numbers better than -120 dbc/Hz at 100 Hz offset out of a number of pretty simple VHF VCXO circuits. Bert has one that seems to work fine for him. Bob DROR-IIA_Phase_Noise.png Description: Binary data ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay KS-24361 may be gone. I emailed ASI to confirm.
From: Dave Cawley Dartmouth United Kingdom If you manipulate the buy number he as 19 left. I bought then just for the oven oscillators ! Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay KS-24361 may be gone. I emailed ASI to confirm.
If you manipulate the buy number he as 19 left. If you manipulate the number all you know is that there are 19 left in the current eBay lot. If you talk to the seller you'll find he has hundred(s) and perhaps the eBay stock quantity is updated as needed. To test this, please record the buy number each day for the next month. If you see a nice sawtooth then my theory is correct. If you then apply a sawtooth correction to your raw data, you'll get a clean, smooth record of total units and units/day sold. Meta time frequency... /tvb ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay KS-24361 may be gone. I emailed ASI to confirm.
Lost me Dave. How do you manipulate the buy number? Also make sure its not just the oscillator, though in yourcase you have what you need for $75 Regards Paul WB8TSL On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 11:06 AM, Timestep informat...@time-step.com wrote: From: Dave Cawley Dartmouth United Kingdom If you manipulate the buy number he as 19 left. I bought then just for the oven oscillators ! Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay KS-24361 may be gone. I emailed ASI to confirm.
Why not just ask the seller how many they have left ? -pete On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 11:56 AM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Lost me Dave. How do you manipulate the buy number? Also make sure its not just the oscillator, though in yourcase you have what you need for $75 Regards Paul WB8TSL On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 11:06 AM, Timestep informat...@time-step.com wrote: From: Dave Cawley Dartmouth United Kingdom If you manipulate the buy number he as 19 left. I bought then just for the oven oscillators ! Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay KS-24361 may be gone. I emailed ASI to confirm.
Hi It’s pretty simple. Put X pieces in your cart and see what happens. At the point you can’t put any more in, you have figured out how many he’s got in the listing. It works for most places that sell a limited stock of things and try to keep the numbers up to date. It’s a poor approach for outfits that do not keep things updated and accurate. Bob On Nov 17, 2014, at 2:56 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Lost me Dave. How do you manipulate the buy number? Also make sure its not just the oscillator, though in yourcase you have what you need for $75 Regards Paul WB8TSL On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 11:06 AM, Timestep informat...@time-step.com wrote: From: Dave Cawley Dartmouth United Kingdom If you manipulate the buy number he as 19 left. I bought then just for the oven oscillators ! Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay KS-24361 may be gone. I emailed ASI to confirm.
Thanks everyone. By the way my typo the company is AECI. And I will wait in the weeds for $75 ref1s. :-) Regards Paul WB8TSL On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 3:14 PM, Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org wrote: Hi It’s pretty simple. Put X pieces in your cart and see what happens. At the point you can’t put any more in, you have figured out how many he’s got in the listing. It works for most places that sell a limited stock of things and try to keep the numbers up to date. It’s a poor approach for outfits that do not keep things updated and accurate. Bob On Nov 17, 2014, at 2:56 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Lost me Dave. How do you manipulate the buy number? Also make sure its not just the oscillator, though in yourcase you have what you need for $75 Regards Paul WB8TSL On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 11:06 AM, Timestep informat...@time-step.com wrote: From: Dave Cawley Dartmouth United Kingdom If you manipulate the buy number he as 19 left. I bought then just for the oven oscillators ! Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom Z3809A, Z3810A, Z3811A, Z3812...
Hi The 58503 is a Z3801 with a pretty instrument style package put around it - right? If so, it might / should have a 10811 in it rather than an MTI OCXO. The 10811 is rated for -155 dbc at 100 Hz. That is much better than the noise floor that the MTI’s seem to produce at 100 Hz. About the only other GPSDO OCXO that gets to that level is the one in the original TBolts . There you very much have to deal with spurs. That make the noise floor of limited use in a practical system. Bob On Nov 17, 2014, at 2:26 PM, saidj...@aol.com wrote: Hi Bob, yes, the 10MHz plot is rotten, no doubt. The 15MHz plot is quite good till about 40Hz offset, then it becomes pretty rotten too. Here is one of my 58503A units (using the 10811 OCXO) as a comparison.. measured against our DROR-IIA (this plot was actually done to show the DROR-IIA PN, but since that unit actually has less noise and spurs than the 58503A we can simply use it as the reference for this purpose). The good news is that getting the close-in phase noise to be good is very hard to do and the unit delivers that out-of-the box already. Filtering out the noise and spurs above 40Hz offset is pretty easy to do. It should be fairly straight forward to cobble up a small PN filter for those units to get rid of the noise and spurs above 40Hz offset. bye, Said In a message dated 11/17/2014 09:31:46 Pacific Standard Time, kb...@n1k.org writes: Hi Here’s the phase noise on the 15 MHz. There are a few spurs, and an very real hump out at the likely frequency of the Lucent switcher. The 15 MHz is pretty clean compared to most /all of the other units I’ve seen on the surplus market. I would not multiply this up to 40 GHz with a broadband multiplier. I would be quite happy to run it into a PLL with a rational bandwidth. You will beat the noise on the output with a fairly simple VHF VCXO past 100 Hz. No reason to have a bandwidth outside the 20 to 80 Hz range. Math: 15 MHz to 150 MHz - 20 log (N) - 20 db. -140 dbc / Hz shown below at 100 Hz offset - -120 dbc/Hz You can get numbers better than -120 dbc/Hz at 100 Hz offset out of a number of pretty simple VHF VCXO circuits. Bert has one that seems to work fine for him. Bob DROR-IIA_Phase_Noise.png ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom Z3809A, Z3810A, Z3811A, Z3812...
That first spike falls right at 60 Hz. I wonder if your test setup is picking up some hum? Tom - Original Message - From: S. Jackson via time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com To: kb...@n1k.org; time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom Z3809A, Z3810A,Z3811A, Z3812... Hi Bob, yes, the 10MHz plot is rotten, no doubt. The 15MHz plot is quite good till about 40Hz offset, then it becomes pretty rotten too. Here is one of my 58503A units (using the 10811 OCXO) as a comparison.. measured against our DROR-IIA (this plot was actually done to show the DROR-IIA PN, but since that unit actually has less noise and spurs than the 58503A we can simply use it as the reference for this purpose). The good news is that getting the close-in phase noise to be good is very hard to do and the unit delivers that out-of-the box already. Filtering out the noise and spurs above 40Hz offset is pretty easy to do. It should be fairly straight forward to cobble up a small PN filter for those units to get rid of the noise and spurs above 40Hz offset. bye, Said In a message dated 11/17/2014 09:31:46 Pacific Standard Time, kb...@n1k.org writes: Hi Here’s the phase noise on the 15 MHz. There are a few spurs, and an very real hump out at the likely frequency of the Lucent switcher. The 15 MHz is pretty clean compared to most /all of the other units I’ve seen on the surplus market. I would not multiply this up to 40 GHz with a broadband multiplier. I would be quite happy to run it into a PLL with a rational bandwidth. You will beat the noise on the output with a fairly simple VHF VCXO past 100 Hz. No reason to have a bandwidth outside the 20 to 80 Hz range. Math: 15 MHz to 150 MHz - 20 log (N) - 20 db. -140 dbc / Hz shown below at 100 Hz offset - -120 dbc/Hz You can get numbers better than -120 dbc/Hz at 100 Hz offset out of a number of pretty simple VHF VCXO circuits. Bert has one that seems to work fine for him. Bob ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom Z3809A, Z3810A, Z3811A, Z3812...
Hi I would pretty much ignore any 60 / 120 / 180 Hz spurs in a US phase noise plot. The same thing would be true of 50 / 100 / 150 Hz spurs from a country that uses 50 Hz power. Unless everything is running in the middle of a corn field on batteries, there is no way to be *sure* that they are not part of the measurement setup. If you happen to be on a circuit with heavy rotary machinery, you can see artifacts at 1/2 or 1/3 or 1/4 the power line frequency. I doubt that in that case the bearings on the equipment are going to last very long. They rarely are strong enough to bother a phase noise plot, but I have had it happen. Bob On Nov 17, 2014, at 3:01 PM, Tom Miller tmiller11...@verizon.net wrote: That first spike falls right at 60 Hz. I wonder if your test setup is picking up some hum? Tom - Original Message - From: S. Jackson via time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com To: kb...@n1k.org; time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom Z3809A, Z3810A,Z3811A, Z3812... Hi Bob, yes, the 10MHz plot is rotten, no doubt. The 15MHz plot is quite good till about 40Hz offset, then it becomes pretty rotten too. Here is one of my 58503A units (using the 10811 OCXO) as a comparison.. measured against our DROR-IIA (this plot was actually done to show the DROR-IIA PN, but since that unit actually has less noise and spurs than the 58503A we can simply use it as the reference for this purpose). The good news is that getting the close-in phase noise to be good is very hard to do and the unit delivers that out-of-the box already. Filtering out the noise and spurs above 40Hz offset is pretty easy to do. It should be fairly straight forward to cobble up a small PN filter for those units to get rid of the noise and spurs above 40Hz offset. bye, Said In a message dated 11/17/2014 09:31:46 Pacific Standard Time, kb...@n1k.org writes: Hi Here’s the phase noise on the 15 MHz. There are a few spurs, and an very real hump out at the likely frequency of the Lucent switcher. The 15 MHz is pretty clean compared to most /all of the other units I’ve seen on the surplus market. I would not multiply this up to 40 GHz with a broadband multiplier. I would be quite happy to run it into a PLL with a rational bandwidth. You will beat the noise on the output with a fairly simple VHF VCXO past 100 Hz. No reason to have a bandwidth outside the 20 to 80 Hz range. Math: 15 MHz to 150 MHz - 20 log (N) - 20 db. -140 dbc / Hz shown below at 100 Hz offset - -120 dbc/Hz You can get numbers better than -120 dbc/Hz at 100 Hz offset out of a number of pretty simple VHF VCXO circuits. Bert has one that seems to work fine for him. Bob ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Arrived!
Christmas lights up first and then to play. Looks neat. Now for a serious timing antenna and RF splitter. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay KS-24361 may be gone. I emailed ASI to confirm.
Sometimes eBay limits the number of units a vendor can list at any time to limit their financial responsibility.. Happened to us. Sent From iPhone On Nov 17, 2014, at 12:14, Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org wrote: Hi It’s pretty simple. Put X pieces in your cart and see what happens. At the point you can’t put any more in, you have figured out how many he’s got in the listing. It works for most places that sell a limited stock of things and try to keep the numbers up to date. It’s a poor approach for outfits that do not keep things updated and accurate. Bob On Nov 17, 2014, at 2:56 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Lost me Dave. How do you manipulate the buy number? Also make sure its not just the oscillator, though in yourcase you have what you need for $75 Regards Paul WB8TSL On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 11:06 AM, Timestep informat...@time-step.com wrote: From: Dave Cawley Dartmouth United Kingdom If you manipulate the buy number he as 19 left. I bought then just for the oven oscillators ! Dave ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom Z3809A, Z3810A, Z3811A, Z3812...
Correct on all counts Bob. My two 58503A units from China are great for both ADEV and PN measurements, better than anything else I have as a combo (I have Wenzel ULNs for even lower PN testing but they don't have any usable ADEV). I also have a costly BVA and it can't compete against the HP unit. Those 10811s just rule. In fact my only complaint about the 58503A are the 60Hz related small spurs you can see in the plots... Bye, Said Sent From iPhone On Nov 17, 2014, at 12:28, Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org wrote: Hi The 58503 is a Z3801 with a pretty instrument style package put around it - right? If so, it might / should have a 10811 in it rather than an MTI OCXO. The 10811 is rated for -155 dbc at 100 Hz. That is much better than the noise floor that the MTI’s seem to produce at 100 Hz. About the only other GPSDO OCXO that gets to that level is the one in the original TBolts . There you very much have to deal with spurs. That make the noise floor of limited use in a practical system. Bob On Nov 17, 2014, at 2:26 PM, saidj...@aol.com wrote: Hi Bob, yes, the 10MHz plot is rotten, no doubt. The 15MHz plot is quite good till about 40Hz offset, then it becomes pretty rotten too. Here is one of my 58503A units (using the 10811 OCXO) as a comparison.. measured against our DROR-IIA (this plot was actually done to show the DROR-IIA PN, but since that unit actually has less noise and spurs than the 58503A we can simply use it as the reference for this purpose). The good news is that getting the close-in phase noise to be good is very hard to do and the unit delivers that out-of-the box already. Filtering out the noise and spurs above 40Hz offset is pretty easy to do. It should be fairly straight forward to cobble up a small PN filter for those units to get rid of the noise and spurs above 40Hz offset. bye, Said In a message dated 11/17/2014 09:31:46 Pacific Standard Time, kb...@n1k.org writes: Hi Here’s the phase noise on the 15 MHz. There are a few spurs, and an very real hump out at the likely frequency of the Lucent switcher. The 15 MHz is pretty clean compared to most /all of the other units I’ve seen on the surplus market. I would not multiply this up to 40 GHz with a broadband multiplier. I would be quite happy to run it into a PLL with a rational bandwidth. You will beat the noise on the output with a fairly simple VHF VCXO past 100 Hz. No reason to have a bandwidth outside the 20 to 80 Hz range. Math: 15 MHz to 150 MHz - 20 log (N) - 20 db. -140 dbc / Hz shown below at 100 Hz offset - -120 dbc/Hz You can get numbers better than -120 dbc/Hz at 100 Hz offset out of a number of pretty simple VHF VCXO circuits. Bert has one that seems to work fine for him. Bob DROR-IIA_Phase_Noise.png ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] LTE Lite Came!!
Hi Jim, thanks for your question. The reason we put that note in there is two-fold: 1) On these 20MHz units the TCXO output in fact can drive 50 Ohms inputs as we put a strong buffer on the board, but the synthesized RF output and the 1PPS output cannot drive 50 Ohms. Those two are CMOS 1M Ohms input only. Using 50 Ohms impedance on the TCXO output will however heavily tax the internal power supply and CMOS buffer, and create heating on the board right next to the TCXO which will affect stability somewhat. So can it be done? Yes. Should it be done? That's up to the user to decide. 2) On the next batch of 10MHz DIP-14 TCXO units the external TCXO itself drives the output directly without a buffer. That TCXO is not capable of driving 50 Ohms inputs, only CMOS 1M Ohms inputs. So a buffer is required on these 10MHz units if 50 Ohms test equipment is to be used. Hope that explains it, bye, Said In a message dated 11/17/2014 15:27:21 Pacific Standard Time, j...@jtmiller.com writes: Hello Said I got a nice surprise in my mail today: LTE-Lite! There was a note with it that said (in effect) none of the outputs are 50ohm capable. So it looks like I should build up a little board with the divide by two and incorporate on that a 50ohm capable buffer for clock transmission to the rest of my system? BTW, you're welcome to answer via Timenuts as I'm sure others will have the same question. Thanks! Jim AB3CV ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Quad Driven Mixer 5 to 10 MHz Doubler
For those who may be curious, I dug out the schematic for my version of the quadrature-driven DBM frequency doubler and posted it to ko4bb.com. It uses a quadrature hybrid coupler to generate +45 and -45 degree signals at 5MHz, buffers them with emitter followers, and applies them to the RF and LO inputs of a Level 7 DBM. The file name is Frequency doubler quadrature DBM (it should be searchable once it is moved out of the recent upload directory). Due to the excellent balance of the quadrature hybrid coupler and the DBM, the spurious products in the mixer output are all odd-order harmonics of 10MHz, the strongest being 30MHz at about -35dBc. The 5MHz feedthrough is about -50dBc. Note that these depend on the mixer balance and circuit layout, as well as the quadrature coupler design and construction. Also shown is an active filter/amplifier that brings the 10MHz output back up near 1Vrms and lowers the 30MHz harmonic to ~ -60dBc and the 5MHz feedthrough to ~ -65dBc. If a simple series LC is used to feed the load, H3 and 5MHz feedthrough can be reduced further to ~ -80dBc. Bandpass filters at the output frequency can create phase modulation with temperature changes. Accordingly, they are presumptively disfavored. However, I built the whole circuit into a smallish cast aluminum box, which integrates any external temperature changes with a long time constant (tens of minutes), and have never had any problem in this regard. For many applications there is no need for any filtering (other than a simple LP noise filter) after the mixer. Because the even-order output products are very well suppressed, the output waveform is nearly perfectly symmetrical. This means that it has a 50% duty cycle and maintains its 50% duty cycle when it is AC coupled or DC-restored, so triggering can always be stable at the center point of the waveform. This inherent freedom from spurious outputs and suppression of even-order output harmonics makes the circuit attractive wherever low spurious output is desired, compared to diode doublers or active push-push circuits. For any required suppression of spurs, the DBM doubler needs less aggressive filtering because of its inherent balance. It also avoids the flicker noise that is characteristic of diode, BJT, and FET doublers. Of course, any design is an exercise in compromise and meeting required performance goals, and there are always many means to reach the end, so different designers will choose different paths. This is one I happen to like. If you try it, you may find that you do, too. Note: The circuit works without the emitter follower buffers, but the spurious outputs are somewhat higher due to the nonlinear loading on the hybrid coupler. This may still be useful if an all-passive circuit is required. Best regards, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] LTE Lite Question
I got my LTE Lite this afternoon and have been playing with it. I have a question on the NMEA $PSTI message: what are the last two numbers before the checksum (in this case 30, 0)? I've noticed that once the site survey is complete they go away, just the comma is left. $PSTI,00,1,1701,4.4,30,0*35 ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom Z3809A, Z3810A, Z3811A, Z3812...
Hi On Nov 17, 2014, at 7:48 PM, Charles Steinmetz csteinm...@yandex.com wrote: Bob wrote: The 58503 is a Z3801 with a pretty instrument style package put around it - right? If so, it might / should have a 10811 in it rather than an MTI OCXO. I think there may be other minor differences between the 58503 and the Z3801, including a newer GPS engine, but I'm not positive what they all are. They are clearly very similar. The 58503 should have either a dual-oven 10811 or the Symmetricom look-alike. (The Symmetricom has a 5MHz crystal and a doubler -- it looks exactly like a DO 10811 except for lacking an HP sticker.) I bought a 58503 from one of the usual far-eastern suspects, which was advertised expressly as having a 10811. When it arrived, I saw that it had the Symmetricom OCXO. I fired off a message to the supplier complaining that I did not receive the promised 10811, and he offered to part-refund the purchase price or exchange the oscillator. Because of the high transaction cost of exchanging, I elected to take the part refund thinking I would swap in one of the DO 10811s I had on hand. But after only a week of running, the Symmetricom was better than all of the 10811s I own! It’s the -155 to -160 dbc / Hz phase noise limit that can be tough to hit with a 5 MHz doubled to 10 MHz. Getting below -166 dbc / Hz at 100 Hz offset on a 5 MHz is quite unusual. (Interestingly, my best 10811 is not a DO unit -- it is a SO 10811 that came out of an HP5345A that was originally part of a 5390A frequency stability analyzer.) Note: My experience should NOT be read as a claim that the Symmetricom oscillators are better than 10811s. My sample of the Symmetricoms is way too limited to make any claims. But this particular Symmetricom happens to be a very fine OCXO. If it’s a 5 MHz it *should* have ADEV that is as good as / better than just about all the 10811’s out there. Bob Best regards, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 10811
On the PSTI message fields question, I am checking into it, will get back soon with an answer. On the 10811, that OCXO can typically be mechanically tuned to have a 1.5V nominal EFC set voltage. The LTE-Lite can drive from 0V to 3.0V EFC, so that should be more than required on a good (well aged and good thermal stability) 10811. We have not tried driving a 10811 with it yet though, so can't say for sure. One requirement is that the OCXO has a positive EFC slope. Bye, Said In a message dated 11/17/2014 16:28:51 Pacific Standard Time, bill.ric...@verizon.net writes: Said, Patiently waiting for my 10 mhz unit. What are your ideas on using it to control a 10811 instead of the built in 10 mhz osc? Will there be enough control voltage for the 10811? Regards, Bill Riches Cape May, NJ -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of S. Jackson via time-nuts Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 6:40 PM To: j...@jtmiller.com; time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] LTE Lite Came!! Hi Jim, thanks for your question. The reason we put that note in there is two-fold: 1) On these 20MHz units the TCXO output in fact can drive 50 Ohms inputs as we put a strong buffer on the board, but the synthesized RF output and the 1PPS output cannot drive 50 Ohms. Those two are CMOS 1M Ohms input only. Using 50 Ohms impedance on the TCXO output will however heavily tax the internal power supply and CMOS buffer, and create heating on the board right next to the TCXO which will affect stability somewhat. So can it be done? Yes. Should it be done? That's up to the user to decide. 2) On the next batch of 10MHz DIP-14 TCXO units the external TCXO itself drives the output directly without a buffer. That TCXO is not capable of driving 50 Ohms inputs, only CMOS 1M Ohms inputs. So a buffer is required on these 10MHz units if 50 Ohms test equipment is to be used. Hope that explains it, bye, Said In a message dated 11/17/2014 15:27:21 Pacific Standard Time, j...@jtmiller.com writes: Hello Said I got a nice surprise in my mail today: LTE-Lite! There was a note with it that said (in effect) none of the outputs are 50ohm capable. So it looks like I should build up a little board with the divide by two and incorporate on that a 50ohm capable buffer for clock transmission to the rest of my system? BTW, you're welcome to answer via Timenuts as I'm sure others will have the same question. Thanks! Jim AB3CV ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 10811
Hi The 10811 is a leaded part pc board construction. If you don’t mind tearing it down to pieces, you can make the EFC do just about anything you wish. Bob On Nov 17, 2014, at 8:32 PM, S. Jackson via time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com wrote: On the PSTI message fields question, I am checking into it, will get back soon with an answer. On the 10811, that OCXO can typically be mechanically tuned to have a 1.5V nominal EFC set voltage. The LTE-Lite can drive from 0V to 3.0V EFC, so that should be more than required on a good (well aged and good thermal stability) 10811. We have not tried driving a 10811 with it yet though, so can't say for sure. One requirement is that the OCXO has a positive EFC slope. Bye, Said In a message dated 11/17/2014 16:28:51 Pacific Standard Time, bill.ric...@verizon.net writes: Said, Patiently waiting for my 10 mhz unit. What are your ideas on using it to control a 10811 instead of the built in 10 mhz osc? Will there be enough control voltage for the 10811? Regards, Bill Riches Cape May, NJ -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of S. Jackson via time-nuts Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 6:40 PM To: j...@jtmiller.com; time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] LTE Lite Came!! Hi Jim, thanks for your question. The reason we put that note in there is two-fold: 1) On these 20MHz units the TCXO output in fact can drive 50 Ohms inputs as we put a strong buffer on the board, but the synthesized RF output and the 1PPS output cannot drive 50 Ohms. Those two are CMOS 1M Ohms input only. Using 50 Ohms impedance on the TCXO output will however heavily tax the internal power supply and CMOS buffer, and create heating on the board right next to the TCXO which will affect stability somewhat. So can it be done? Yes. Should it be done? That's up to the user to decide. 2) On the next batch of 10MHz DIP-14 TCXO units the external TCXO itself drives the output directly without a buffer. That TCXO is not capable of driving 50 Ohms inputs, only CMOS 1M Ohms inputs. So a buffer is required on these 10MHz units if 50 Ohms test equipment is to be used. Hope that explains it, bye, Said In a message dated 11/17/2014 15:27:21 Pacific Standard Time, j...@jtmiller.com writes: Hello Said I got a nice surprise in my mail today: LTE-Lite! There was a note with it that said (in effect) none of the outputs are 50ohm capable. So it looks like I should build up a little board with the divide by two and incorporate on that a 50ohm capable buffer for clock transmission to the rest of my system? BTW, you're welcome to answer via Timenuts as I'm sure others will have the same question. Thanks! Jim AB3CV ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Lucent KS-24361, HP/Symmetricom Z3809A, Z3810A, Z3811A, Z3812...
Bob wrote: The 58503 is a Z3801 with a pretty instrument style package put around it - right? If so, it might / should have a 10811 in it rather than an MTI OCXO. I think there may be other minor differences between the 58503 and the Z3801, including a newer GPS engine, but I'm not positive what they all are. They are clearly very similar. The 58503 should have either a dual-oven 10811 or the Symmetricom look-alike. (The Symmetricom has a 5MHz crystal and a doubler -- it looks exactly like a DO 10811 except for lacking an HP sticker.) I bought a 58503 from one of the usual far-eastern suspects, which was advertised expressly as having a 10811. When it arrived, I saw that it had the Symmetricom OCXO. I fired off a message to the supplier complaining that I did not receive the promised 10811, and he offered to part-refund the purchase price or exchange the oscillator. Because of the high transaction cost of exchanging, I elected to take the part refund thinking I would swap in one of the DO 10811s I had on hand. But after only a week of running, the Symmetricom was better than all of the 10811s I own! (Interestingly, my best 10811 is not a DO unit -- it is a SO 10811 that came out of an HP5345A that was originally part of a 5390A frequency stability analyzer.) Note: My experience should NOT be read as a claim that the Symmetricom oscillators are better than 10811s. My sample of the Symmetricoms is way too limited to make any claims. But this particular Symmetricom happens to be a very fine OCXO. Best regards, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 10811
I ground one side of the tuning diode and use the 2 to 12 V as the external OCXO for my FRK's along with increasing the time constant. I have not verified it but I think removing the zener Voltage should also improve ADEV. Bert Kehren In a message dated 11/17/2014 8:46:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, kb...@n1k.org writes: Hi The 10811 is a leaded part pc board construction. If you don’t mind tearing it down to pieces, you can make the EFC do just about anything you wish. Bob On Nov 17, 2014, at 8:32 PM, S. Jackson via time-nuts time-nuts@febo.com wrote: On the PSTI message fields question, I am checking into it, will get back soon with an answer. On the 10811, that OCXO can typically be mechanically tuned to have a 1.5V nominal EFC set voltage. The LTE-Lite can drive from 0V to 3.0V EFC, so that should be more than required on a good (well aged and good thermal stability) 10811. We have not tried driving a 10811 with it yet though, so can't say for sure. One requirement is that the OCXO has a positive EFC slope. Bye, Said In a message dated 11/17/2014 16:28:51 Pacific Standard Time, bill.ric...@verizon.net writes: Said, Patiently waiting for my 10 mhz unit. What are your ideas on using it to control a 10811 instead of the built in 10 mhz osc? Will there be enough control voltage for the 10811? Regards, Bill Riches Cape May, NJ -Original Message- From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of S. Jackson via time-nuts Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 6:40 PM To: j...@jtmiller.com; time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] LTE Lite Came!! Hi Jim, thanks for your question. The reason we put that note in there is two-fold: 1) On these 20MHz units the TCXO output in fact can drive 50 Ohms inputs as we put a strong buffer on the board, but the synthesized RF output and the 1PPS output cannot drive 50 Ohms. Those two are CMOS 1M Ohms input only. Using 50 Ohms impedance on the TCXO output will however heavily tax the internal power supply and CMOS buffer, and create heating on the board right next to the TCXO which will affect stability somewhat. So can it be done? Yes. Should it be done? That's up to the user to decide. 2) On the next batch of 10MHz DIP-14 TCXO units the external TCXO itself drives the output directly without a buffer. That TCXO is not capable of driving 50 Ohms inputs, only CMOS 1M Ohms inputs. So a buffer is required on these 10MHz units if 50 Ohms test equipment is to be used. Hope that explains it, bye, Said In a message dated 11/17/2014 15:27:21 Pacific Standard Time, j...@jtmiller.com writes: Hello Said I got a nice surprise in my mail today: LTE-Lite! There was a note with it that said (in effect) none of the outputs are 50ohm capable. So it looks like I should build up a little board with the divide by two and incorporate on that a 50ohm capable buffer for clock transmission to the rest of my system? BTW, you're welcome to answer via Timenuts as I'm sure others will have the same question. Thanks! Jim AB3CV ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] LTE LITE comments
Said Like others my unit arrived today. As I pondered the cables from the splitter and power supplies along with lots of mcx connectors, low and behold everything needed was in the box to get going. Its up and running, surveyed, locked, and happy. Currently watching it against a z3801 and a KS-36421. Looks pretty good. Compared to the power consumption those others use amazing. Thanks Paul WB8TSL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] 10811's
As you all know, but has not been mentioned, is that there are many versions of the venerable 10811, which different specifications, including phase noise and stability. The well known HP document 90027-1 lists many of them, and thanks to TVB, it is here: http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/10811a/90027-1.pdf The contents include 1 10811D/E Crystal Oscillators 2 10811D/E Option 001 3 10811D/E Option 002 4 10811D/E Option 003 5 10811D/E Option 100 6 10811-60111 7 10811-60109 8 10811-60209 9 10811-60211 10 10811-60102 11 05071-60219 12 10811-60158 13 10811-60160 14 10811-60164 I hope that this is helpful. Regards, John K1AE ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 10811's
Hi As best anybody can tell, the improved phase noise and ADEV 10811’s came out of a screening / select process. There is a finite chance that a “normal part number” 10811 could be as good as or better than a part from one of the “better part number” versions. Bob On Nov 17, 2014, at 9:42 PM, John Allen j...@pcsupportsolutions.com wrote: As you all know, but has not been mentioned, is that there are many versions of the venerable 10811, which different specifications, including phase noise and stability. The well known HP document 90027-1 lists many of them, and thanks to TVB, it is here: http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/10811a/90027-1.pdf The contents include 1 10811D/E Crystal Oscillators 2 10811D/E Option 001 3 10811D/E Option 002 4 10811D/E Option 003 5 10811D/E Option 100 6 10811-60111 7 10811-60109 8 10811-60209 9 10811-60211 10 10811-60102 11 05071-60219 12 10811-60158 13 10811-60160 14 10811-60164 I hope that this is helpful. Regards, John K1AE ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay KS-24361 may be gone. I emailed ASI to confirm.
Looks like the price has now gone back up to $200. It will be interesting to watch to see how many sell at that price and whether they go back on sale. At this point, 55 are reported sold with more than 10 available. In terms of quantity available, the old/original shipping label on mine (which arrived last week) indicated that it was 32 of 135 in the original shipment. This may or may not have any significance in terms of the total number the seller may have available. Fred ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] Ebay KS-24361 may be gone. I emailed ASI to confirm.
Wow they are turning to gold right before our eyes. Regards Paul. WB8TSL On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 8:52 PM, Frederick Bray fwb...@mminternet.com wrote: Looks like the price has now gone back up to $200. It will be interesting to watch to see how many sell at that price and whether they go back on sale. At this point, 55 are reported sold with more than 10 available. In terms of quantity available, the old/original shipping label on mine (which arrived last week) indicated that it was 32 of 135 in the original shipment. This may or may not have any significance in terms of the total number the seller may have available. Fred ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 10811's
Is there a quick and dirty summary of which are the good 10811's? Otherwise, I clearly need to go through my collection and characterize them! :) I should probably do that anyway... On Nov 17, 2014, at 21:50, Bob Camp kb...@n1k.org wrote: Hi As best anybody can tell, the improved phase noise and ADEV 10811’s came out of a screening / select process. There is a finite chance that a “normal part number” 10811 could be as good as or better than a part from one of the “better part number” versions. Bob On Nov 17, 2014, at 9:42 PM, John Allen j...@pcsupportsolutions.com wrote: As you all know, but has not been mentioned, is that there are many versions of the venerable 10811, which different specifications, including phase noise and stability. The well known HP document 90027-1 lists many of them, and thanks to TVB, it is here: http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/10811a/90027-1.pdf The contents include 1 10811D/E Crystal Oscillators 2 10811D/E Option 001 3 10811D/E Option 002 4 10811D/E Option 003 5 10811D/E Option 100 6 10811-60111 7 10811-60109 8 10811-60209 9 10811-60211 10 10811-60102 11 05071-60219 12 10811-60158 13 10811-60160 14 10811-60164 I hope that this is helpful. Regards, John K1AE ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] 10811's
Bob wrote: As best anybody can tell, the improved phase noise and ADEV 10811's came out of a screening / select process. There is a finite chance that a normal part number 10811 could be as good as or better than a part from one of the better part number versions. That is particularly true now that they all have decades of aging. The specs were written for new units with fresh crystals, which are nearly always less stable than well-seasoned crystals (e.g., you will often find annual drift specs given separately for first year and subsequent years). At this point, I think it is essentially random which individual 10811s are most stable (and, of course, it also depends on what you mean by more stable -- is the oscillator that drops to 1e-12 by 1 second and stays below 5e-12 through 1000 seconds more or less stable than the one that is 2e-11 at 1 second, drops to 1e-13 from 20 to 100 seconds, and is back up to 2e-11 at 1000 seconds?). I certainly haven't noticed any pattern with the 10811s that have been through my hands. I know -- everybody, label all of your 10811s with your name and address, box them up, and send them to Tom with a return shipping label and sufficient postage. He can run each one for PN and xDEV (after burning each one in for a week, of course), publish all of the data, and return them. ;-)We're bound to have at least a few thousand between us. Don't forget the ones in your counters and other equipment! Best regards, Charles ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] LTE LITE comments
Thanks Paul, Glad you like it! On the PSTI question from earlier: the GPS vendor snuck two additional fields into the PSTI message on their last fw update. The two new fields are as follows: Position Standard Deviation Threshold Calculated Position Standard Deviation After Self-Survey The first is simply 30, and the second should indicate the final fix quality. The second has to be smaller than the first for the survey process to end. Both in meters. Bye, Said Sent From iPhone On Nov 17, 2014, at 18:17, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: Said Like others my unit arrived today. As I pondered the cables from the splitter and power supplies along with lots of mcx connectors, low and behold everything needed was in the box to get going. Its up and running, surveyed, locked, and happy. Currently watching it against a z3801 and a KS-36421. Looks pretty good. Compared to the power consumption those others use amazing. Thanks Paul WB8TSL ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] RFTG-u REF 0 Z3812 as cleanup module for FEI5680A
Hello List, having not looked at the spectra yet as I am confined to mobile phone instead of PC often, I had the idea to marry those two well-known devices to get a nice clean reference oscillator. I remember the spectrum of the FEI as not so nice, and the MTI sounds better. My understanding is yet that I would need to emulate the REF1 unit, basically need to look up the lonely REF tweak with the bridges in J5, maybe fake valid GPS datagrams with a microcontroller and turn the 1PPS pulse from the FEI into that 2 PPSes expected. Replacing the Lucent Power Brick with a linear supply and bridging the tripler to get 5 MHz out might be tweaks to increase the output spectrum further. This was discussed before, I think, i have to look it up too. (I wonder if the REF0 acts up after complete removal of the source REF1 or keep on doing holdover which would be a nice way to take a good frequency standard to a ham radio repeater side) BR Hendrik ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
