Re: Topband: 2-element receiving arrays

[David Aslin G3WGN]

Steve, 
This is really helpful.
One point of clarification: now that the 12V is not traversing the coax, what 
power source are you using? Solar panel + battery, or other?
73, David G3WGN M6O

-Original Message-
From: VE6WZ Steve  
Sent: Saturday, April 1, 2023 12:35 AM
To: Frank W3LPL 
Cc: topband 
Subject: Re: Topband: 2-element receiving arrays

I received a few private emails asking similar questions about my power 
redesign of my amps.

I need to clarify this.
Yes, I have redesigned a version of a HI-Z amp that does not use 12v on the 
coax. Each require a dedicated 12v supply line.
I right now have about 15 of these amps deployed in the field for my new BOG 
broadside phased array system.

I have not yet swapped out the amplifiers on my 9C for a redesigned model 
because so far they have remained noise stable. However, all the amps in my 9C 
have had the PCB judiciously cleaned and carefully coated.

Another question was have I actually seen this noise problem from micro-arcing?
The answer is yes. Absolutely.  In some cases it became very bad. In all cases 
this was on poorly cleaned and un-coated  PCBs that developed moisture. On at 
least 5 of the amps I could actually see what looked like galvanic corrosion 
developing at the F-connectors on the PCB. A white dusty powder had developed 
across the connector.  This was not because of serious water intrusion, but 
just moisture and humidity developing in the boxes.  If some day I switch out 
the amps I have now, I will not use a bias-T voltage supply.

As for modifying the combiner not much is required except to snip the RFC at 
each f connector and supply 12v through an RFC to the supply line going to each 
amp.

Steve, Ve6wz 


From Babcocks iPhone

> On Mar 30, 2023, at 6:31 PM, VE6WZ Steve  wrote:
> 
> I strongly second Franks comment about weather proofing.
> 
> Equally important on any outside electronics is to very carefully clean ALL 
> the residual flux off the PC boards, and especially on the F-connector solder 
> pads.
> ALSO, apply some acrylic conformal coating on all outdoor PCBs.
> 
> With 12v on the coax line with a bias-T setup, even small amounts of dirt 
> stuck to old flux and then combined with moisture can cause serious noise 
> issues with micro conduction between the centre conductor and ground pads.
> 
> I have since redesigned all my rx amplifiers to use a separate 12v dedicated 
> supply voltage to keep the DC off the coax.
> 
> 73, Steve Ve6wz
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> > On Mar 30, 2023, at 2:18 PM, Frank W3LPL  wrote:
> > 
> > Tiler,
> > 
> > Congratulations on your new five circle YCCC array! 
> > 
> > Be sure you very effectively waterproof all of your coaxial cable 
> > connectors that carry DC power. Even the slightest amount of 
> > moisture in the connectors will cause micro-arcing of the DC voltage, 
> > raising your noise floor by many dB.
> > 
> > 73
> > Frank
> > W3LPL
> > 
> > 
> > From: "K3MM" 
> > To: "Frank W3LPL" , "topband" 
> > , "PVRC" 
> > Cc: "Pete N4ZR N4ZR" 
> > Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2023 8:08:42 PM
> > Subject: Re: Topband: 2-element receiving arrays
> > 
> > I just completed building a YCCC nine Circle array using V E6WZ PC boards 
> > with the latest mods, including on board chokes. I actually have it 
> > deployed currently as a five circle As I’ll be taking it down soon for 
> > mowing season, but it works quite well. The patterns on all three bands, 
> > 160 through 40 are as advertised. Very good patterns but not the best 
> > sensitivity . I built mine as about 23 foot verticals. I’d say compares 
> > favorably to my 500 foot beverage, antennna although it requires a lot of 
> > pre-amplification. Due to the active electronics it can be overloaded by 
> > close transmit antennnas so perhaps not as useful for a multiband operation 
> > in a small area. 
> > I’m providing power over the coax cable and using green heron everywhere, 
> > wireless remote control, which works quite well and is controlled by the PC 
> > software using a mouse or hotkeys. 
> > 
> > It was a fun project. It turned out quite well, but not in expensive. I 
> > scrounged about half the aluminum tubing and angle I’m using for the bases 
> > and probably spent $1500 or so. including the remote control hardware. next 
> > fall, I’ll deploy the full nine circle array, but the five circle is 
> > probably almost as useful and avoids some complexity and cost. i’ll also 
> > probably relocate it to get more separation from some of the transmit 
> > antennnas. 
> > 
> > Ty K3MM
> > 
> > [ 
> > https://apps.apple.com/us/app/aol-news-email-weather-video/id6461006
> > 61 | Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS ]
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Thursday, March 30, 2023, 1:38 PM, Frank W3LPL  
> > wrote: 
> > 
> > 
> > Hi Pete,
> > 
> > For a monoband receiving array, you might consider using low 
> > impedance resonant verticals rather than high impedance verticals.
> > 
> > The primary advantages of high impedance verticals 

Topband: Looking for user experience: DXEngineering Thunderbolt 160m vertical

[David Aslin G3WGN]

I'm building a contest station and the time has come to make a choice of 160m 
TX antenna. Looking at DXE Thunderbolt I note that the capacity hat extends to 
a significant distance down the vertical section. It's my understanding that 
will shield some of the radiation from the upper part of the vertical. 
Alternatives like a vertical tee would not have this issue.
Is my understanding correct?

I'm considering a commercial antenna as high strength telescoping antenna 
tubing is unobtanium in UK.  My QTH is an exposed windy location so strength 
matters!
73, David G3WGN M6O



Sent from my Galaxy

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Re: Topband: 9 circle RX array combiner board

[David Aslin G3WGN]

Indeed they do Mike.  I ordered a set last month, it arrived last week. 
But the combiner isn't to Steve's innovative design.  I'm using Steve's high 
impedance amp design for my build plus the PI4CC combiner and switchbox boards. 
Now Steve has put the cat among the pigeons with his new combiner design...
73, David G3WGN  M6O


-Original Message-
From: W0MU Mike Fatchett [mailto:w...@w0mu.com] 
Sent: 03 March 2020 03:20
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: 9 circle RX array combiner board

You can order a board set from PI4CC I think...I am not sure what they used for 
the combiner circuit.  A set of board for the 9 antennas, the combiner and the 
switchbox was $65.00 us and they include one extra of each board.

W0MU

On 3/2/2020 7:35 PM, Edward stallman wrote:
> Thanks Steve for another great video on the YCCC 9 circle . I would 
> like to have one of Steve's combiner boards and if I remember 
> correctly , the folks that make the boards have a 3 board minimum . If 
> someone thinking of placing a order please let me know , I only need 
> one .
>
> Thanks Ed N5DG
>
>
> On 3/1/2020 4:22 PM, VE6WZ_Steve wrote:
>> Just like some guys enjoy woodworking and making furniture that they 
>> may not really need, I like to build radio things just for the fun of 
>> the project even though I may not really “need” it.  For three years 
>> I have been using the original 9 circle RX array kit that I bought 
>> from DX-engineering, and it has performed well, but I wanted to build 
>> my own and add my own design tweaks.
>>
>> Using KiCad, I have designed and built a 9 circle RX array combiner 
>> with a 2N5109 pre-amplifier integrated onto the same board.
>>
>> The phase/combiner circuit and direction switching is the same as 
>> that designed by John W1FV which was developed with the YCCC and 
>> marketed by DX-engineering (no longer sold). The pre-amplifier is the
>> 2N5109 circuit developed and refined by Larry W7IUV.
>>
>> I made a YouTube video to show what I did.  I know some guys may not 
>> like watching videos, but I spent my professional career writing 
>> technical papers and I have no interest in doing that anymore (I am 
>> NOT an engineer, I am a geologist).  I can make a video pretty quick 
>> and cover most of the basics.
>>
>> In the video I describe the board layout and explain the basics of 
>> how the combiner works. I talk about the basic construction methods I 
>> use, but this is NOT a step-by-step "how to build it" project. If you 
>> want to build one of these, please carefully read and understand the 
>> great documentation that was provided by the YCCC (link provided) so 
>> you can build the transformers and wire things correctly.  This video 
>> is only meant to share what I did and provide anyone interested with 
>> the PCB file if they want to build their own.
>>
>> On the YouTube page I have a link to the KiCad PCB file if you want 
>> to order your own boards (I order my boards from OSH park) and a link 
>> to an EXCEL file for a parts list BOM.
>>
>> YouTube video here: https://youtu.be/utyJt_Clp3M 
>> 
>>
>> 73, de steve ve6wz
>> _
>> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband 
>> Reflector
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> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband 
> Reflector


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Re: Topband: YCCC 9-circle Phase combiner/controller

[David Aslin G3WGN]

Thanks Geert.  Peter PC2A messaged me with the website link so I ordered a 
board set earlier this afternoon.
You guys are doing a great job!
73, David G3WGN  M6O


Hi David,

Check the PI4CC website

https://www.pi4cc.nl/tech-info/rx-array/

Regards,

Geert PA3CSG


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Topband: YCCC 9-circle Phase combiner/controller

[David Aslin G3WGN]

Hi all,
Coming late to the YCCC array.  Does anyone have a source for PCB or complete 
unit for the phase combiner/controller and switch box?
Or anyone considering selling a working unit?
Ideally shipped to UK, but can pick up at Dayton or have mailed to a US address.
73, David G3WGN  M6O

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Re: Topband: Supporting Ladder line

[David Aslin G3WGN]

Vic, sounds like you have what you need for your open wire line support, so 
this is an FYI:
In the UK WD1A is called D10 field telephone cable.  It's getting harder to 
find surplus, but is still made by Lacey: 
http://www.klaceycables.co.uk/shop/product/12/d10-field-telephone-cable 
The steel strands tend to rust out easily so it's worth dipping the ends of 
open wire or radial runs in Liquid Tape or similar.
I have a few reels here for beverages, but your posting has reminded me of 
using it for long feeder runs too.
73, David G3WGN  M6O

-Original Message-
From: Vic Lindgren [mailto:g4...@lindgren1.karoo.co.uk] 
Sent: 08 January 2018 15:48
To: jeremy maris 
Cc: Jim Garland <4cx2...@miamioh.edu>; topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Supporting Ladder line

Thank you everyone for your contributions regarding my questions re Ladder Line.
We will try a test run of the RG6U as suggested by Jeremy. Mainly because we 
already have a source on site of the cable he suggested.
The WD1A telephone wire does not appear available in the UK. 
You all appear to agree that it matters not whether supported vertically or 
horizontally,as long as a twist is made to help maintain both balance and wind 
survival. All great info folks.
Will let the group know our progress with the project shortly.
 73
Vic
 G4BYG (G6M)


> On 7 Jan 2018, at 10:28, jeremy maris  wrote:
> 
> Hi Vic,
> 
> I’ve done something similar to Jim with two paralleled runs of WD1A for a 
> bi-directional Beverage and it worked very well.
> 
> According to the specifications, WD1A is made up of two 0.85mm diameter 
> conductors separated by 0.85mm between the inner surface of the conductors.
> I took the effective diameter of two paralleled strands of WD1A to be 2mm. 
> Two lines spaced apart by 50mm gives about 450 ohms impedance.
> 
> Paralleled strands of WD1A at 450/600 ohms are OK for RX but you want to use 
> the line for feeding QRO to a transmit  antenna, so loss matters.
> 
> I’ve considered using RG6U spaced apart by 150mm for 450 ohm TX transmission 
> line but think that I’d need too many poles to support it with acceptable sag.
> Aluminium wire or copperweld would be much better - it would be lighter and 
> hold more tension so less sag, fewer supports needed and more consistent 
> impedance.
> 
> Re horizontal versus vertical spacing, don’t think it will make much 
> difference on taught lines raised above head height.
> 
> 73 Jeremy G3XDK / G4AQG
> 
>> On 6 Jan 2018, at 21:05, Vic  wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks for that Jim,
>> 
>> Well we plan on using some on site "Shot Gun" coax (about 8 gauge diam) as 
>> the ladder line conductors with a 6 inch spacing. Which on a test length 
>> gave us around the 450 ohm impedance we require.
>> 
>> I dont know the diameter of that WD1a wire but suspect it is quite small 
>> which would make home made 450 ohm line spacing very small indeed.
>> 
>> Your method of supporting using the wood clamps sounds a good idea as we 
>> were concerned about the plastic clamps breaking due to flexing and UV 
>> deterioration.
>> 
>> If our conductors fail through the flexing then we may bite the bullet and 
>> buy some Aluminium wire as Rik N6RK uses.
>> 
>> All useful info though and thanks again Jim.
>> 
>> 73
>> 
>> 
>>> On 06-Jan-18 20:38, Jim Garland wrote:
>>> Vic, I've had nothing but bad luck in trying to support long horizontal 
>>> lengths of ladder line. In my case, I have two 720 ft bidirectional 
>>> beverages, which I initially made of heavy duty commercial ladder line. I 
>>> supported the line with wood 4"x4" posts, spaced sixty feet apart, using 
>>> the little plastic ladder line clamps, sold in the US by DX Engineering.
>>> 
>>> After only a month or so, the plastic clamps broke apart because of the 
>>> repetitive flexing of the ladder line in breezes. I replaced the clamps 
>>> with wood clamps, screwed into the top of the posts. These survived with no 
>>> problem, but the ladder didn't. After six months or so, I started having 
>>> breaks in the line from the flexing, and after spending two years 
>>> repeatedly repairing the line, I gave up and threw away all 1500 feet of 
>>> the stuff.
>>> 
>>> Finally, I settled on WD1a military surplus field telephone wire, available 
>>> from many sources for about $50 USD in half mile lengths. I use two 
>>> parallel lengths of the wire, threaded through twin ceramic insulators 
>>> screwed into each 4x4 wood support (available from a farm supply store), 
>>> with a pulley at the far end to equalize tension in the two lengths. In 
>>> three years, it has worked perfectly, with no problems at all.
>>> 
>>> I'm not disparaging ladder line (or the plastic clamps) at all. The 
>>> commercial stuff just isn't designed for long horizontal lengths.
>>> 
>>> 73,
>>> Jim W8ZR
>>> 
 -Original Message-
 From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf 

Re: Topband: DX Engineering final field test of the 3Y0Z Bouvet 160 meter vertical

[David Aslin G3WGN]

Tim, 
This has probably already been said several times: this should be a DXE product!
It would be a squeeze, but would just fit into my antenna field...
73, David G3WGN  M6O


-Original Message-
From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of 
topband-requ...@contesting.com
Sent: 29 August 2017 01:22
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Topband Digest, Vol 176, Issue 13

The DX Engineering and Bouvet Island teams have worked together to design an 
efficient 90 foot top loaded 160 meter vertical antenna that can be installed 
quickly and safely on Bouvet Island by the 3Y0Z team this January.

With a good radial system the difference in gain between a 120 ft (full quarter 
wavelength) vertical and this custom 90 foot top loaded vertical is less than 
0.5 dB.

This vertical uses a custom designed heavy duty hinged pivot base with base 
insulators to accommodate a 40 foot falling derrick 3 inch heavy duty pipe for 
installation.

The vertical is base fed using two inductors to match to 50 ohms. The first
70 feet of the vertical is Universal Aluminum tower (12 inch face) and the top 
20 feet is 1.875 inch diameter aluminum tubing.

There are guys at 30, 50 and 70 feet. There are also three 30 foot top loading 
wires attached to the top of the tubing that are tied to anchors 60 feet out 
from the base.

DXE is actually donating two of these vertical packages to the 3Y0Z team in 
case one gets damaged (there are 300 storms per year on Bouvet).

More details on the construction and the final test raising plus VSWR 
measurements are shown in the video filmed and produced (in 4K Ultra) by Greg, 
W8WWV.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSw-0TjaUiU

73,
Tim K3LR

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Re: Topband: Wind Farming

[David Aslin G3WGN]

I live in one of the areas of G-land with the highest concentration of wind 
farms.
What I learned while looking for a new low-noise QTH:
- small wind generators (50kW or less) have induction generators and therefore 
are essentially no-noise on HF & VHF.
- mid-size (up to around 1MW) usually have an inverter (think SMPS on a 20-50m 
(70-170ft) tower) which is a noise generator.
- large turbines most always use an inverter architecture and some of the 
towers are 80m/300ft or more high.  Gives them the ability to spread their hash 
over very wide areas and be prominent in the field of view of your antennas.
- I drove around several of the larger windfarms at distances from 3 miles down 
to 500ft or so.  One particularly noisy site (with IIRC 19 x 2MW turbines) 
could be heard out to 3 miles or so.  RX was KX3 with a 9ft whip on the roof of 
the SUV.  No doubt would be heard at a much greater distance at a fixed QTH 
with towers/beams.
- I set a goal of being no closer than 5 miles from a turbine of 1MW or more.  
Hard to achieve on this crowded small island (it's a 1000 miles long but has a 
population of 60 million+).
- The ZL6QH experience appears to validate my experimental findings.

So if that farm really is local and they want to install big wind generators, 
be ready for QRN.
73, David G3WGN  M6O

-Original Message-
From: Jim Murray [mailto:adkmur...@yahoo.com] 
Sent: 30 March 2016 20:07
To: TopBand List 
Subject: Topband: Wind Farming

Hello all,There is talk of local farmers bringing in windmill companies.  With 
the low prices now on milk it is one way to boost income.  Wondering if anyone 
has experienced any interference/noise from the generators.ThanksJimk2hn
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