Re: Topband: Crimea DXCC status?
Joe, What did K1ZZ do that you don't agree with? Do you believe that Crimea should be recognized as a separate country for DXCC purposes? 73, John / K4WJ ex KN8PXG K8PXG K8WJ ZF2HZ -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Joe Subich, W4TV Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 11:40 PM To: topband@contesting.com; [Contest] Subject: Re: Topband: Crimea DXCC status? Amen! I can't believe that K1ZZ can so blatantly ignore the DXCC Rules! Section 1, Rule 7: > 7. Any Amateur Radio operation should take place only with the > complete approval and understanding of appropriate administration > officials. In countries where amateurs are licensed in the normal > manner, credit may be claimed only for stations using regular > government-assigned call signs or portable call signs where > reciprocal agreements exist or the host government has so authorized > portable operation. As far as international norms of civilized nations - including the US, all of the EU, UN and particularly the ITU - are concerned the appropriate administration for Crimea is in Kiev not some goons in Moscow issuing UA6S and UA6K callsigns. UA6S and UA6K are *pirate* operations and should be rejected by DXCC just as 7O calls issued in Aden and other "licenses" issued by the wrong "authorities" have been routinely rejected. K1ZZ's decision to ignore the DXCC rules for political reasons (in opposition to UN resolutions and US policy) is as bad as Baldwin's Reef and makes it *impossible* for DXCC to fairly reject *any* DX operation for "improper documentation" as long as the flouting of the DXCC rules continues. I wonder how K1ZZ would react if Havana were to start issuing licenses to ethnic Cubans in Miami? The proportion of the population in Miami that are ethnic Cubans may be higher than that of ethnic Russians in Crimea. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 2014-05-22 10:28 PM, Yuri Blanarovich wrote: > From the ARRL Letter:ARRL Responds to Ukrainian Amateur Radio League > Regarding DXCC Status of Crimea The ARRL has responded to an appeal > from the Ukrainian Amateur Radio League (UARL) to "consider the > information regarding the status of Crimea as temporarily occupied > territory." UARL President Vladimir Grishchenko, UT0FT, told the ARRL > on May 3, that Russia's "illegal annexation" of Crimea "does not > change the status of this territory, which legally belongs to > Ukraine." ARRL CEO David Sumner, K1ZZ, on May > 21 acknowledged the UARL's position and reiterated the ARRL Awards > Committee's determination that the annexation did not lend Crimea > status as a new DXCC entity. > "We appreciate the high regard you have expressed for the DXCC program," > Sumner wrote. "However, the list of DXCC entities is simply for the > purpose of giving radio amateurs a consistent way to compare their DX > achievements. It is not intended to express a position with respect to > sovereignty and should not be regarded as such." > The Awards Committee has concluded that a QSL with a call sign issued > by Ukraine and showing the entity name as Ukraine counts as Ukraine, > while a QSL with a call sign issued by Russia and showing the entity > name as Russia counts as Russia. "A QSL that satisfies neither > condition does not count for either entity," the committee said. > Grishchenko had pointed out that the UN does not recognize Crimea's > annexation, and that the US government is "currently working actively > to preserve the territorial integrity of Ukraine." He further asserted > that, according to the International Telecommunication Union (ITU), > Ukraine is responsible for spectrum usage in Crimea, and that only > Ukraine can issue licenses, despite what he called Crimea's "temporary" > status as an occupied territory. > Grishchenko had asked the ARRL to consider this information when > determining "the conditions of meeting award requirements, as well as > in determining the winners of competitions held." > Sumner told Grishchenko that the ARRL Awards Committee's determination > "is consistent with the treatment, for DXCC purposes, of other > territory that may be described as either 'temporarily occupied' or disputed." > "We join the world community in the hope that the difficulties and > uncertainties currently being faced by the people of Ukraine will be > resolved peacefully and with full regard for human rights," Sumner > concluded. > (end of quote) > > > Unprecedented, ARRL legitimizing Russian occupation of Ukrainian territory. > Now can South Korea "issue" licenses for North Korea too? > Looks lik
Re: Topband: Crimea DXCC status?
Guys - this is not the place for political discussions like this. Thanks. Tree On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 8:40 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: > > Amen! > > I can't believe that K1ZZ can so blatantly ignore the DXCC Rules! > > Section 1, Rule 7: > > 7. Any Amateur Radio operation should take place only with the > > complete approval and understanding of appropriate administration > > officials. In countries where amateurs are licensed in the normal > > manner, credit may be claimed only for stations using regular > > government-assigned call signs or portable call signs where > > reciprocal agreements exist or the host government has so authorized > > portable operation. > > As far as international norms of civilized nations - including the > US, all of the EU, UN and particularly the ITU - are concerned the > appropriate administration for Crimea is in Kiev not some goons in > Moscow issuing UA6S and UA6K callsigns. UA6S and UA6K are *pirate* > operations and should be rejected by DXCC just as 7O calls issued > in Aden and other "licenses" issued by the wrong "authorities" have > been routinely rejected. > > K1ZZ's decision to ignore the DXCC rules for political reasons (in > opposition to UN resolutions and US policy) is as bad as Baldwin's Reef > and makes it *impossible* for DXCC to fairly reject *any* DX operation > for "improper documentation" as long as the flouting of the DXCC rules > continues. > > I wonder how K1ZZ would react if Havana were to start issuing licenses > to ethnic Cubans in Miami? The proportion of the population in Miami > that are ethnic Cubans may be higher than that of ethnic Russians in > Crimea. > > 73, > >... Joe, W4TV > > > On 2014-05-22 10:28 PM, Yuri Blanarovich wrote: > >> From the ARRL Letter:ARRL Responds to Ukrainian Amateur Radio League >> Regarding DXCC Status of Crimea >> The ARRL has responded to an appeal from the Ukrainian Amateur Radio >> League (UARL) to "consider the information regarding the status of >> Crimea as temporarily occupied territory." UARL President Vladimir >> Grishchenko, UT0FT, told the ARRL on May 3, that Russia's "illegal >> annexation" of Crimea "does not change the status of this territory, >> which legally belongs to Ukraine." ARRL CEO David Sumner, K1ZZ, on May >> 21 acknowledged the UARL's position and reiterated the ARRL Awards >> Committee's determination that the annexation did not lend Crimea status >> as a new DXCC entity. >> "We appreciate the high regard you have expressed for the DXCC program," >> Sumner wrote. "However, the list of DXCC entities is simply for the >> purpose of giving radio amateurs a consistent way to compare their DX >> achievements. It is not intended to express a position with respect to >> sovereignty and should not be regarded as such." >> The Awards Committee has concluded that a QSL with a call sign issued by >> Ukraine and showing the entity name as Ukraine counts as Ukraine, while >> a QSL with a call sign issued by Russia and showing the entity name as >> Russia counts as Russia. "A QSL that satisfies neither condition does >> not count for either entity," the committee said. >> Grishchenko had pointed out that the UN does not recognize Crimea's >> annexation, and that the US government is "currently working actively to >> preserve the territorial integrity of Ukraine." He further asserted >> that, according to the International Telecommunication Union (ITU), >> Ukraine is responsible for spectrum usage in Crimea, and that only >> Ukraine can issue licenses, despite what he called Crimea's "temporary" >> status as an occupied territory. >> Grishchenko had asked the ARRL to consider this information when >> determining "the conditions of meeting award requirements, as well as in >> determining the winners of competitions held." >> Sumner told Grishchenko that the ARRL Awards Committee's determination >> "is consistent with the treatment, for DXCC purposes, of other territory >> that may be described as either 'temporarily occupied' or disputed." >> "We join the world community in the hope that the difficulties and >> uncertainties currently being faced by the people of Ukraine will be >> resolved peacefully and with full regard for human rights," Sumner >> concluded. >> (end of quote) >> >> >> Unprecedented, ARRL legitimizing Russian occupation of Ukrainian >> territory. >> Now can South Korea "issue" licenses for North Korea too? >> Looks like Putin has some power over ARRL. >> Until situation is resolved politically, ARRL has no business >> legitimizing "annexation" of Crimea by masked thugs. >> >> Yuri, K3BU >> _ >> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband >> > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband > _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Crimea DXCC status?
Original appeal by UT0FT to ARRL is at http://uarl.org.ua/load/zvernennja_lru_v_arrl/13-1-0-387 Yuri, K3BU.us On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 01:04 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote: > These are not "political statements" - they are in indictment of K1ZZ for blatantly ignoring the DXCC rules. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 2014-05-22 11:54 PM, Dave Novoa W4DN wrote: Please, keep the political statements out of the Amateur Radio reflectors. 73, Dave _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Crimea DXCC status?
One thing we know for sure is that in the DXCC area the ARRL inner circles have always been inconsistent with their litany of inconsistencies. They have create DXCC countries because of external political pressure and disallowed them for the same reasons. As far as a frank discussion of acreditation for Crimea goes, it is not only proper but valuable to look at the pros and cons. Why not? However, when personal attacks enter the discussions, as they have here, that is totally wrong. Not only that it clouds the frank discussion but it is bad for our hobby and a disservice to this site. Herb Schoenbohm, KV4FZ On 5/23/2014 5:31 AM, zemurt...@mail.telepac.pt wrote: With this DXCC/ARRL aproach it is urgent to review the status of the "Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus", if we open one precedent the same shall apply to similar situations. 73 Jose CT1EEB _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Crimea DXCC status?
With this DXCC/ARRL aproach it is urgent to review the status of the "Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus", if we open one precedent the same shall apply to similar situations. 73 Jose CT1EEB _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Crimea DXCC status?
Yuri, stop shitting on political issues amateur radio! You want to be really smart sitting in K3-land and flinging mud at all. P.S. why you all sat with closed mouths when your bald Uncle Ukrainian Hruŝov gave Ukraine the Russian land of Crimea? As you look at what Mr Obama decides to donate Hawaii to Mexico? 73! de Eugene RA0FF http://dx.bgtelecom.ru http://www.qsl.net/ra0ff/ Thu, 22 May 2014 22:28:46 -0400 (EDT) от Yuri Blanarovich : >From the ARRL Letter:ARRL Responds to Ukrainian Amateur Radio League >Regarding DXCC Status of Crimea >The ARRL has responded to an appeal from the Ukrainian Amateur Radio >League (UARL) to "consider the information regarding the status of >Crimea as temporarily occupied territory." UARL President Vladimir >Grishchenko, UT0FT, told the ARRL on May 3, that Russia's "illegal >annexation" of Crimea "does not change the status of this territory, >which legally belongs to Ukraine." ARRL CEO David Sumner, K1ZZ, on May >21 acknowledged the UARL's position and reiterated the ARRL Awards >Committee's determination that the annexation did not lend Crimea status >as a new DXCC entity. >"We appreciate the high regard you have expressed for the DXCC program," >Sumner wrote. "However, the list of DXCC entities is simply for the >purpose of giving radio amateurs a consistent way to compare their DX >achievements. It is not intended to express a position with respect to >sovereignty and should not be regarded as such." >The Awards Committee has concluded that a QSL with a call sign issued by >Ukraine and showing the entity name as Ukraine counts as Ukraine, while >a QSL with a call sign issued by Russia and showing the entity name as >Russia counts as Russia. "A QSL that satisfies neither condition does >not count for either entity," the committee said. >Grishchenko had pointed out that the UN does not recognize Crimea's >annexation, and that the US government is "currently working actively to >preserve the territorial integrity of Ukraine." He further asserted >that, according to the International Telecommunication Union (ITU), >Ukraine is responsible for spectrum usage in Crimea, and that only >Ukraine can issue licenses, despite what he called Crimea's "temporary" >status as an occupied territory. >Grishchenko had asked the ARRL to consider this information when >determining "the conditions of meeting award requirements, as well as in >determining the winners of competitions held." >Sumner told Grishchenko that the ARRL Awards Committee's determination >"is consistent with the treatment, for DXCC purposes, of other territory >that may be described as either 'temporarily occupied' or disputed." >"We join the world community in the hope that the difficulties and >uncertainties currently being faced by the people of Ukraine will be >resolved peacefully and with full regard for human rights," Sumner >concluded. >(end of quote) > > >Unprecedented, ARRL legitimizing Russian occupation of Ukrainian >territory. >Now can South Korea "issue" licenses for North Korea too? >Looks like Putin has some power over ARRL. >Until situation is resolved politically, ARRL has no business >legitimizing "annexation" of Crimea by masked thugs. > >Yuri, K3BU >_ >Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Crimea DXCC status?
These are not "political statements" - they are in indictment of K1ZZ for blatantly ignoring the DXCC rules. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 2014-05-22 11:54 PM, Dave Novoa W4DN wrote: Please, keep the political statements out of the Amateur Radio reflectors. 73, Dave _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Crimea DXCC status?
I enjoy 'political statements' every once in a while ... keep them coming. Doug "Think of all the ways you can hurt yourself laughing." -Original Message- Amen! I can't believe that K1ZZ can so blatantly ignore the DXCC Rules! Section 1, Rule 7: > 7. Any Amateur Radio operation should take place only with the > complete approval and understanding of appropriate administration > officials. In countries where amateurs are licensed in the normal > manner, credit may be claimed only for stations using regular > government-assigned call signs or portable call signs where > reciprocal agreements exist or the host government has so authorized > portable operation. As far as international norms of civilized nations - including the US, all of the EU, UN and particularly the ITU - are concerned the appropriate administration for Crimea is in Kiev not some goons in Moscow issuing UA6S and UA6K callsigns. UA6S and UA6K are *pirate* operations and should be rejected by DXCC just as 7O calls issued in Aden and other "licenses" issued by the wrong "authorities" have been routinely rejected. K1ZZ's decision to ignore the DXCC rules for political reasons (in opposition to UN resolutions and US policy) is as bad as Baldwin's Reef and makes it *impossible* for DXCC to fairly reject *any* DX operation for "improper documentation" as long as the flouting of the DXCC rules continues. I wonder how K1ZZ would react if Havana were to start issuing licenses to ethnic Cubans in Miami? The proportion of the population in Miami that are ethnic Cubans may be higher than that of ethnic Russians in Crimea. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 2014-05-22 10:28 PM, Yuri Blanarovich wrote: > From the ARRL Letter:ARRL Responds to Ukrainian Amateur Radio League > Regarding DXCC Status of Crimea > The ARRL has responded to an appeal from the Ukrainian Amateur Radio > League (UARL) to "consider the information regarding the status of > Crimea as temporarily occupied territory." UARL President Vladimir > Grishchenko, UT0FT, told the ARRL on May 3, that Russia's "illegal > annexation" of Crimea "does not change the status of this territory, > which legally belongs to Ukraine." ARRL CEO David Sumner, K1ZZ, on May > 21 acknowledged the UARL's position and reiterated the ARRL Awards > Committee's determination that the annexation did not lend Crimea status > as a new DXCC entity. > "We appreciate the high regard you have expressed for the DXCC program," > Sumner wrote. "However, the list of DXCC entities is simply for the > purpose of giving radio amateurs a consistent way to compare their DX > achievements. It is not intended to express a position with respect to > sovereignty and should not be regarded as such." > The Awards Committee has concluded that a QSL with a call sign issued by > Ukraine and showing the entity name as Ukraine counts as Ukraine, while > a QSL with a call sign issued by Russia and showing the entity name as > Russia counts as Russia. "A QSL that satisfies neither condition does > not count for either entity," the committee said. > Grishchenko had pointed out that the UN does not recognize Crimea's > annexation, and that the US government is "currently working actively to > preserve the territorial integrity of Ukraine." He further asserted > that, according to the International Telecommunication Union (ITU), > Ukraine is responsible for spectrum usage in Crimea, and that only > Ukraine can issue licenses, despite what he called Crimea's "temporary" > status as an occupied territory. > Grishchenko had asked the ARRL to consider this information when > determining "the conditions of meeting award requirements, as well as in > determining the winners of competitions held." > Sumner told Grishchenko that the ARRL Awards Committee's determination > "is consistent with the treatment, for DXCC purposes, of other territory > that may be described as either 'temporarily occupied' or disputed." > "We join the world community in the hope that the difficulties and > uncertainties currently being faced by the people of Ukraine will be > resolved peacefully and with full regard for human rights," Sumner > concluded. > (end of quote) > > > Unprecedented, ARRL legitimizing Russian occupation of Ukrainian territory. > Now can South Korea "issue" licenses for North Korea too? > Looks like Putin has some power over ARRL. > Until situation is resolved politically, ARRL has no business > legitimizing "annexation" of Crimea by masked thugs. > > Yuri, K3BU > _ > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Crimea DXCC status?
Please, keep the political statements out of the Amateur Radio reflectors. 73, Dave _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Re: Topband: Crimea DXCC status?
Amen! I can't believe that K1ZZ can so blatantly ignore the DXCC Rules! Section 1, Rule 7: > 7. Any Amateur Radio operation should take place only with the > complete approval and understanding of appropriate administration > officials. In countries where amateurs are licensed in the normal > manner, credit may be claimed only for stations using regular > government-assigned call signs or portable call signs where > reciprocal agreements exist or the host government has so authorized > portable operation. As far as international norms of civilized nations - including the US, all of the EU, UN and particularly the ITU - are concerned the appropriate administration for Crimea is in Kiev not some goons in Moscow issuing UA6S and UA6K callsigns. UA6S and UA6K are *pirate* operations and should be rejected by DXCC just as 7O calls issued in Aden and other "licenses" issued by the wrong "authorities" have been routinely rejected. K1ZZ's decision to ignore the DXCC rules for political reasons (in opposition to UN resolutions and US policy) is as bad as Baldwin's Reef and makes it *impossible* for DXCC to fairly reject *any* DX operation for "improper documentation" as long as the flouting of the DXCC rules continues. I wonder how K1ZZ would react if Havana were to start issuing licenses to ethnic Cubans in Miami? The proportion of the population in Miami that are ethnic Cubans may be higher than that of ethnic Russians in Crimea. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 2014-05-22 10:28 PM, Yuri Blanarovich wrote: From the ARRL Letter:ARRL Responds to Ukrainian Amateur Radio League Regarding DXCC Status of Crimea The ARRL has responded to an appeal from the Ukrainian Amateur Radio League (UARL) to "consider the information regarding the status of Crimea as temporarily occupied territory." UARL President Vladimir Grishchenko, UT0FT, told the ARRL on May 3, that Russia's "illegal annexation" of Crimea "does not change the status of this territory, which legally belongs to Ukraine." ARRL CEO David Sumner, K1ZZ, on May 21 acknowledged the UARL's position and reiterated the ARRL Awards Committee's determination that the annexation did not lend Crimea status as a new DXCC entity. "We appreciate the high regard you have expressed for the DXCC program," Sumner wrote. "However, the list of DXCC entities is simply for the purpose of giving radio amateurs a consistent way to compare their DX achievements. It is not intended to express a position with respect to sovereignty and should not be regarded as such." The Awards Committee has concluded that a QSL with a call sign issued by Ukraine and showing the entity name as Ukraine counts as Ukraine, while a QSL with a call sign issued by Russia and showing the entity name as Russia counts as Russia. "A QSL that satisfies neither condition does not count for either entity," the committee said. Grishchenko had pointed out that the UN does not recognize Crimea's annexation, and that the US government is "currently working actively to preserve the territorial integrity of Ukraine." He further asserted that, according to the International Telecommunication Union (ITU), Ukraine is responsible for spectrum usage in Crimea, and that only Ukraine can issue licenses, despite what he called Crimea's "temporary" status as an occupied territory. Grishchenko had asked the ARRL to consider this information when determining "the conditions of meeting award requirements, as well as in determining the winners of competitions held." Sumner told Grishchenko that the ARRL Awards Committee's determination "is consistent with the treatment, for DXCC purposes, of other territory that may be described as either 'temporarily occupied' or disputed." "We join the world community in the hope that the difficulties and uncertainties currently being faced by the people of Ukraine will be resolved peacefully and with full regard for human rights," Sumner concluded. (end of quote) Unprecedented, ARRL legitimizing Russian occupation of Ukrainian territory. Now can South Korea "issue" licenses for North Korea too? Looks like Putin has some power over ARRL. Until situation is resolved politically, ARRL has no business legitimizing "annexation" of Crimea by masked thugs. Yuri, K3BU _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
Topband: Crimea DXCC status?
From the ARRL Letter:ARRL Responds to Ukrainian Amateur Radio League Regarding DXCC Status of Crimea The ARRL has responded to an appeal from the Ukrainian Amateur Radio League (UARL) to "consider the information regarding the status of Crimea as temporarily occupied territory." UARL President Vladimir Grishchenko, UT0FT, told the ARRL on May 3, that Russia's "illegal annexation" of Crimea "does not change the status of this territory, which legally belongs to Ukraine." ARRL CEO David Sumner, K1ZZ, on May 21 acknowledged the UARL's position and reiterated the ARRL Awards Committee's determination that the annexation did not lend Crimea status as a new DXCC entity. "We appreciate the high regard you have expressed for the DXCC program," Sumner wrote. "However, the list of DXCC entities is simply for the purpose of giving radio amateurs a consistent way to compare their DX achievements. It is not intended to express a position with respect to sovereignty and should not be regarded as such." The Awards Committee has concluded that a QSL with a call sign issued by Ukraine and showing the entity name as Ukraine counts as Ukraine, while a QSL with a call sign issued by Russia and showing the entity name as Russia counts as Russia. "A QSL that satisfies neither condition does not count for either entity," the committee said. Grishchenko had pointed out that the UN does not recognize Crimea's annexation, and that the US government is "currently working actively to preserve the territorial integrity of Ukraine." He further asserted that, according to the International Telecommunication Union (ITU), Ukraine is responsible for spectrum usage in Crimea, and that only Ukraine can issue licenses, despite what he called Crimea's "temporary" status as an occupied territory. Grishchenko had asked the ARRL to consider this information when determining "the conditions of meeting award requirements, as well as in determining the winners of competitions held." Sumner told Grishchenko that the ARRL Awards Committee's determination "is consistent with the treatment, for DXCC purposes, of other territory that may be described as either 'temporarily occupied' or disputed." "We join the world community in the hope that the difficulties and uncertainties currently being faced by the people of Ukraine will be resolved peacefully and with full regard for human rights," Sumner concluded. (end of quote) Unprecedented, ARRL legitimizing Russian occupation of Ukrainian territory. Now can South Korea "issue" licenses for North Korea too? Looks like Putin has some power over ARRL. Until situation is resolved politically, ARRL has no business legitimizing "annexation" of Crimea by masked thugs. Yuri, K3BU _ Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
