Topband: QRP on 160?
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2024 10:57:15 -0700 From: Radio KH6O To: topband Subject: Topband: QRP on 160? http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: QRP on 160?
In the 2000s I worked a few contests running 5 watts. Two or three ARRL 160 contests using a 38' top loaded vertical at home and a couple contests from a land bridge out in the Great Salt Lake of Utah running a full size balloon vertical grounding to the lake. With the 38' antenna I topped out at 200 Qs and with the lake antenna 400 were made. All Search and Pounce. It was not all that difficult at my end, just call CQing stations who are over S-7. That was with paper logging and a bug or keyer depending on the year. Dave KH6AQ On Sun, Jul 7, 2024 at 11:22 AM Roger Kennedy wrote: > > No, I guess I should have clarified what I was saying . . . > > Sure, my 160m mobile whip is much less efficient than a full-sized 160m > aerial . . . but I have calibrated the S Meter on my Mobile Rig so that it > reads the same as signals on my main aerial at home. (and both my rigs at > home have calibrated S Meters, ie 50uV = S9) > > So the noise outside my house is S7 (as it is on my main aerial) . . . as > it > is almost everywhere driving around . . . and often very much stronger > outside various buildings. > > One of the locals to me now has a permanent S9 + 15dB noise level on Top > Band. > > Roger G3YRO > > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: QRP on 160?
No, I guess I should have clarified what I was saying . . . Sure, my 160m mobile whip is much less efficient than a full-sized 160m aerial . . . but I have calibrated the S Meter on my Mobile Rig so that it reads the same as signals on my main aerial at home. (and both my rigs at home have calibrated S Meters, ie 50uV = S9) So the noise outside my house is S7 (as it is on my main aerial) . . . as it is almost everywhere driving around . . . and often very much stronger outside various buildings. One of the locals to me now has a permanent S9 + 15dB noise level on Top Band. Roger G3YRO _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: QRP on 160?
It only took me 30 years and 15 minutes to get WAS QRP on 160m. The last holdout was HI, and while riding the grayline wave at 1330Z during the last morning of the CQ-160 a couple of years ago, I was able to snag KH7A, with his fantastic antenna array. I still do some 160m QRP, but I've gravitated to LP now, as it's less painful and more productive. Still, a 160m QRP contact is always a thrill. . . 72, Jim KK0U _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: QRP on 160?
On 7/5/2024 3:00 PM, Roger Kennedy wrote: I operate 160m mobile, and it's really depressing driving around. There is a general noise level of S7 everywhere . . . only when you get about 10 miles from any town or power line does it drop to about S3 And remember that S-meters are simply a voltmeter, caiibrated (with wildly variable accuracy) to the voltage at the RX input. It provides nothing more than a RELATIVE idea of one signal's strength compared to another, but it tells us NOTHING about the actual strength of these signals (or the noise) because the radio knows nothing about how that voltage relates to the actual field strength (that is, how efficient it is). I would expect the efficiency of a 160M mobile whip to be quite low, so the actual noise is likely to be MUCH stronger than S7 received by a decent fixed antenna. 73, Jim K9YC _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: QRP on 160?
As Tom just posted, we were limited to 10 watts Input on Top Band . . . and certainly my early DX contacts were all running that. But after a few years I realised that most 160m DXers were running a lot more power . . . a couple of locals had Amps with a pair of 813s ! I never had anything that big . . . but I did start running about 100W output back in the 70s. As has been mentioned, the big problem these days is the high noise level from all the dirty switch-mode power supplies. So to be honest, I am unlikely to copy any DX station calling me unless you're running a Kilowatt ! I operate 160m mobile, and it's really depressing driving around. There is a general noise level of S7 everywhere . . . only when you get about 10 miles from any town or power line does it drop to about S3 (very difficult to achieve that in this country!) And driving down typical streets the noise level often peaks S9+20dB ! I'm just lucky that - despite living on the edge of the city - OFCOM have helped me track down various local noise sources . . . but I still have a residual S7 noise level on all the low bands (in an SSB bandwidth) Roger G3YRO _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: QRP on 160?
For many years after I was licensed in 1960, we were limited in G-land to 10 watts input to the PA (not output). So working DX was a major achievement, although there were quite a few 'fat watts' around! G3PU used to regularly work VK and ZL with a genuine 10 watts from his cliff top QTH on the south coast. G3ERN was another genuine 10 watter who worked VK/ZL. Somewhere in my log there is a QSO with George AA7JV when he was running 5 watts in Miami with an excellent signal. 73, Tom G3OLB _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: QRP on 160?
Appears so! I need to find my QRP watt meter and check it. On Tuesday, July 2, 2024 at 09:31:40 AM CDT, Ken WA8JXM wrote: Ah! So "zero power" on a K3 is not actually zero?! Good to know! Ken WA8JXM On Tue, Jul 2, 2024 at 9:46 AM Mike Furrey wrote: I accidentally made a QRP Q on 160 ... I had just moved and set up my station and wanted to test a feature off the air but couldn't find a dummy load. So, I cranked the power of the K3 to zero, dropped my call, NO3M came back with a report. That dude has some ears! 73, Mike WA5POK On Monday, July 1, 2024 at 10:59:20 PM CDT, Ken WA8JXM wrote: For the younger crowd, 25 watts was the max power allowed in several 160m segments (especially the opposite coast) back in the 60's and 70's. 100w was the max anywhere in the U.S. When I first got on 160 in 1964, working two states away was often considered DX for me! Yes, there were exceptional stations, but they were rare. Ken WA8JXM On Mon, Jul 1, 2024 at 1:57 PM Radio KH6O wrote: > Is anyone regularly using say, 25W or less on 160? > > -- > 73, > Jeff KH6O / 6 > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: QRP on 160?
"Minimum power" on my TS-890S or FT-991A is just under five (5) watts (actually, about 4.7 for both). Steve, K0XP On 7/2/2024 7:31 AM, Ken WA8JXM wrote: Ah! So "zero power" on a K3 is not actually zero?! Good to know! Ken WA8JXM On Tue, Jul 2, 2024 at 9:46 AM Mike Furrey wrote: I accidentally made a QRP Q on 160 ... I had just moved and set up my station and wanted to test a feature off the air but couldn't find a dummy load. So, I cranked the power of the K3 to zero, dropped my call, NO3M came back with a report. That dude has some ears! 73, Mike WA5POK On Monday, July 1, 2024 at 10:59:20 PM CDT, Ken WA8JXM < wa8...@gmail.com> wrote: For the younger crowd, 25 watts was the max power allowed in several 160m segments (especially the opposite coast) back in the 60's and 70's. 100w was the max anywhere in the U.S. When I first got on 160 in 1964, working two states away was often considered DX for me! Yes, there were exceptional stations, but they were rare. Ken WA8JXM On Mon, Jul 1, 2024 at 1:57 PM Radio KH6O wrote: Is anyone regularly using say, 25W or less on 160? -- 73, Jeff KH6O / 6 _ Searchable Archives:http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives:http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives:http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives:http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector -- See my QRZ.com page at *https://www.qrz.com/db/K0XP* _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: QRP on 160?
Ah! So "zero power" on a K3 is not actually zero?! Good to know! Ken WA8JXM On Tue, Jul 2, 2024 at 9:46 AM Mike Furrey wrote: > I accidentally made a QRP Q on 160 ... I had just moved and set up my > station and wanted to test a feature off the air but couldn't find a dummy > load. So, I cranked the power of the K3 to zero, dropped my call, NO3M > came back with a report. That dude has some ears! > 73, Mike WA5POK > > On Monday, July 1, 2024 at 10:59:20 PM CDT, Ken WA8JXM < > wa8...@gmail.com> wrote: > > For the younger crowd, 25 watts was the max power allowed in several 160m > segments (especially the opposite coast) back in the 60's and 70's. 100w > was the max anywhere in the U.S. > > When I first got on 160 in 1964, working two states away was > often considered DX for me! > > Yes, there were exceptional stations, but they were rare. > > Ken WA8JXM > > On Mon, Jul 1, 2024 at 1:57 PM Radio KH6O wrote: > > > Is anyone regularly using say, 25W or less on 160? > > > > -- > > 73, > > Jeff KH6O / 6 > > _ > > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > > Reflector > > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: QRP on 160?
I accidentally made a QRP Q on 160 ... I had just moved and set up my station and wanted to test a feature off the air but couldn't find a dummy load. So, I cranked the power of the K3 to zero, dropped my call, NO3M came back with a report. That dude has some ears! 73, Mike WA5POK On Monday, July 1, 2024 at 10:59:20 PM CDT, Ken WA8JXM wrote: For the younger crowd, 25 watts was the max power allowed in several 160m segments (especially the opposite coast) back in the 60's and 70's. 100w was the max anywhere in the U.S. When I first got on 160 in 1964, working two states away was often considered DX for me! Yes, there were exceptional stations, but they were rare. Ken WA8JXM On Mon, Jul 1, 2024 at 1:57 PM Radio KH6O wrote: > Is anyone regularly using say, 25W or less on 160? > > -- > 73, > Jeff KH6O / 6 > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: QRP on 160?
On 7/1/2024 8:58 PM, Ken WA8JXM wrote: For the younger crowd, 25 watts was the max power allowed in several 160m segments (especially the opposite coast) back in the 60's and 70's. 100w was the max anywhere in the U.S. For a lot of reasons, having to do with having a life outside of ham radio, I wasn't on topband in those days. But I don't need to have been there to know that the primary difference between then and now was RF Noise at both ends of the QSO. 40-50 years ago, the most we had to deal with was power line noise, the result of acting at defective equipment (wiring, insulators, mechanical hardware). Now, the average hone has at a couple of dozen noise sources, in the form of Switch-Mode Power Supplies (SMPS) mandated two decades ago for increased efficiency to combat global warming. I applaud the intent, but failure to fund FCC to enforce EMC regs made it a major noise source everywhere people live! Do you remember "small government?" 73, Jim K9YC _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: QRP on 160?
For the younger crowd, 25 watts was the max power allowed in several 160m segments (especially the opposite coast) back in the 60's and 70's. 100w was the max anywhere in the U.S. When I first got on 160 in 1964, working two states away was often considered DX for me! Yes, there were exceptional stations, but they were rare. Ken WA8JXM On Mon, Jul 1, 2024 at 1:57 PM Radio KH6O wrote: > Is anyone regularly using say, 25W or less on 160? > > -- > 73, > Jeff KH6O / 6 > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: QRP on 160?
On 7/1/2024 5:19 PM, GEORGE WALLNER wrote: The trick is to wait until conditions are right. Otherwise, you will be wasting your time. Yes, QRP is excellent at teaching us about propagation! > In a contest however, I think QRP is a bit unfair to the other guy. I don't. Far too many hams concentrate on being loud and pay little attention to hearing well. I consider ham radio to be about more than operating -- it's also about station-building. And one reason I run QRP in 160M contests is that far too many stations are CQ machines, with their only RX antenna (if they have one) pointed to EU. If they want my QSO, they've got to work for it by hearing well! For the last several days, a ham from MI has been activating a rare grid on 6M in NE NV. He's got a great station, but since he's doing it from a trailer park, he can't hear a big station running legal limit, let alone the ordinary ones. There's also a set of operating skills one must learn if you're a little pistol or QRP. One of them is to never repeat anything the other station has copied correctly. Another is to know how to give repeats efficiently. At 83, I have a lousy fist, so I have F-keys programmed for every element of the exchange that might need a repeat. When I know I'm weak at the other end, I'll keep sending the fill until the other station gets it. (I'm always full QSK). W6JTI and I just made more than 800 Qs with a single-transmitter QRP FD entry last weekend. Both of us are experienced QRP ops. 73, Jim K9YC _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: QRP on 160?
QRP on 160 is possible but you need a very good antenna, especially for DX. (It is still painful, though.) On the TX3A Chesterfield DXpedition I worked a W7 on TB, good signal, no bid deal. About an hour later he called me again and I worked him again. Then another 30 minutes later I heard him calling. He was very weak but we completed the QSO. I was thinking, why all the dupes? Next day I saw his email: The first QSO was with 100 W. The second with 5 W and the third with 700 mW! From New Mexico to Chesterfield! TX3A had a good DHDL RX antenna pointing towards NA, which helped to keep down all the tropical noise. Still... The guy had a full size 4-SQ. Aha... In a contest however, I think QRP is a bit unfair to the other guy. Except in the SP, other contests do not reward you for working a QRP. You do all the hard work of digging him out of the noise, needing many cycles to put together the call-sing -- dealing with all the people wanting to take the frequency -- just to complete a QSO that you get no extra points for. But working DX on 160 with 5 W is a unique thrill. Well worth the effort. The trick is to wait until conditions are right. Otherwise, you will be wasting your time. George, AA7JV On Mon, 1 Jul 2024 10:57:15 -0700 Radio KH6O wrote: Is anyone regularly using say, 25W or less on 160? -- 73, Jeff KH6O / 6 _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: QRP on 160?
Interesting and at my old location and in my 60sI won a couple of 160m contesting QRP awards at5 watts CW for New England and NH.Thats not saying much because I won a certificatefor QRP SSB with only 5 contacts on 160m. In my mid 80s now I need plenty of sleep and being in a condo the antenna has to be put up before and taken down right after any contest to avoid exciting the Condo board. Whatever your passion is do it with enthusiasmfor self enjoyment.. Jim Fitton W1FMR, NH. Jim On Monday, July 1, 2024, 2:27:37 PM EDT, Jim Brown wrote: On 7/1/2024 10:57 AM, Radio KH6O wrote: > Is anyone regularly using say, 25W or less on 160? Years ago, I ran 5W in pursuit of QRP WAS in 160 CW contests from my QTH near San Francisco, and was down to needing three states -- WV, SC, and VT. About 8 years ago, the explosion of RX noise caught up with that. About six years ago, I managed a sked with a WV station on JT65, and completed with him. An FT8 sked with W1UE remoting a VT station a few years later was unsuccessful. Running QRP in those days, KL7RA, KH6LC, and NO3M nearly always heard my first call, and K1KI had pretty good ears. I still will often call an Expedition running 5W, and often make the QSO. I'm guessing it's because they're in places that are remote enough that noise levels are low. 73, Jim K9YC _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: QRP on 160?
Jeff, I haven't been on topband in a few years since my antenna went down in an ice storm. I was always active QRP in the big Stew Perry contests back 8-20 years ago but then I got old and couldn't stay awake all night and together with some health problems for both my wife and me I haven't had the gumption to get the antenna back up. It is very possible to work some good DX with only 5 watts but you have to have a decent antenna. I had a 65" "T" vertical with top loading wires and 60+ ground wires from 60' to 120' long. If I could hear them on my K9AY loop I could work them. I could regularly work most of the conus but EU was always a bust from this DX BLACK hole in Michigan. However, I went through some of my old Stew Perry logs and the best DX with 5 watts was CE4/K7CA in 2012 and KH7Y and KH6LC in 2013. Of course, sunspots were a different thing 10 years ago. Good luck, and keep working on on good antennas. 73,Russ N3CO On Monday, July 1, 2024 at 01:59:13 PM EDT, Radio KH6O wrote: Is anyone regularly using say, 25W or less on 160? -- 73, Jeff KH6O / 6 _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: QRP on 160?
I'm not on 160 right now, but spent an entire solar cycle at 5W. That includes a couple of ARRL contests where I was able to CQ effectively. I was using an inverted-L (about 65' up and 65' across) with only 3 radials up about 12'. No RX antenna - I figured as weak as I was that they weren't needed. I think I worked all states except HI and AK. No EU that I recall. It was more fun than I expected it to be! 73, Lee, AA4GA On Mon, Jul 1, 2024, 1:59 PM Radio KH6O wrote: > Is anyone regularly using say, 25W or less on 160? > > -- > 73, > Jeff KH6O / 6 > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband > Reflector > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: QRP on 160?
I operated in the Big Stew Perry (Dec) one year, QRP 5w, from the K4PI 160 station location (The Farm). Full sized 4 square transmit antenna, several beverages and an 8 circle receiving array. The conditions stunk for hearing much DX that year, but no one had any trouble hearing me, and I did have success running a few times. It was good enough to do again should the opportunity come up. After working VP6DX (Ducie) on 160 in Feb 2008 from my very modest home station, a couple of days later, I easily worked them on 160 QRP (using a club call). But Milt & Robin were in charge of 160/80 receiving antennas. 😜 tnx Mike / K5JR (W5JR back then) Alpharetta GA On Jul 1, 2024, at 2:01 PM, Radio KH6O wrote: Is anyone regularly using say, 25W or less on 160? -- 73, Jeff KH6O / 6 _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: QRP on 160?
Not regularly but sometimes, operated the CQ160m CW qrp 9 times with good results. 73 Peter, DJ7WW -Original-Nachricht- Betreff: Topband: QRP on 160? Datum: 2024-07-01T20:02:04+0200 Von: "Radio KH6O" An: "topband" Is anyone regularly using say, 25W or less on 160? -- 73, Jeff KH6O / 6 _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: QRP on 160?
The last few years I have worked at least one of the 160 contests at 5w CW to a 260’ doublet up 60’ in the trees. I’ve made Qs but don’t think I’ve ever cracked the top 20 in any of them. Tons of fun tho! dit dit 73 de Ed, K1RID Newburyport Electronics & Radio Society > On Jul 1, 2024, at 13:57, Radio KH6O wrote: > Is anyone regularly using say, 25W or less on 160? > > -- > 73, > Jeff KH6O / 6 > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: QRP on 160?
On 7/1/2024 10:57 AM, Radio KH6O wrote: Is anyone regularly using say, 25W or less on 160? Years ago, I ran 5W in pursuit of QRP WAS in 160 CW contests from my QTH near San Francisco, and was down to needing three states -- WV, SC, and VT. About 8 years ago, the explosion of RX noise caught up with that. About six years ago, I managed a sked with a WV station on JT65, and completed with him. An FT8 sked with W1UE remoting a VT station a few years later was unsuccessful. Running QRP in those days, KL7RA, KH6LC, and NO3M nearly always heard my first call, and K1KI had pretty good ears. I still will often call an Expedition running 5W, and often make the QSO. I'm guessing it's because they're in places that are remote enough that noise levels are low. 73, Jim K9YC _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
