Re: [Tutor] Python Programming Books
On 7/14/06, wesley chun [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (LONG... you've been warned ;-) ) snip Heh, that was pretty long. I bought the first edition of Core Python and thought that it was well-written, but I didn't quite get it (stay with me, this gets better). It wasn't until after I had taken quite a few courses in C++ that I realized 1) that python was s much nicer to work with and 2) Wesley's book made a lot more sense. It's probably not a good one for someone new to programming, but I find that I pick it up when I need to see an example of how something is done in python. As for an absolute beginner, Alan's tutorial and How To Think Like a Computer Scientist are both pretty good. The latter had my daughter doing a fair bit of programming in a day. So Wesley's Big Book was a huge help in a project I did for work that involved socket programming, pickling, and interfacing with MySQL. Showing how particular things were done in python in clear, concise examples is it's big strength. Thanks for not getting sucked in to using lots of source code :) -- Matt Waiting for the second edition ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Python Programming Books
It depends a lot on what your prior programming experience in other languages is. I have a large amount of prior programming experience, and I found Learning Python very good. The Python Cookbook (Martelli et. al., also O'Reilly) is very useful for learning the idioms. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Grady Henry Sent: 14 July 2006 06:20 To: tutor@python.org Subject: [Tutor] Python Programming Books I have three books on Python programming, Learning Python by O'Reilly, Beginning Python by Hetland, and Python in a Nutshell by O'Reilly. Are these good (recommended) books? Any others that might be recommended? ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Python Programming Books
Greetings: Like Matthew, I have a been programming for several years, mostly in C-like languages and various assembly languages. I started using Python about two years ago. Learning Python is my text book; Python in a Nutshell is my language reference. Both are excellent. I use one or both nearly every day. I haven't used the Python Cookbook much. For those learning to program with Python as their language, I recommend Alan Gauld's online guide Learning to Program: http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld/ It is well written and easy to follow. For those who like to read hard copy, you can download a pdf version of the guide http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld/tutor.pdf and print it out. Best of luck. Barry [EMAIL PROTECTED] 541-302-1107 We who cut mere stones must always be envisioning cathedrals. -Quarry worker's creed -- Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 10:11:19 +0100 From: Matthew Webber [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Tutor] Python Programming Books To: 'Grady Henry' [EMAIL PROTECTED], tutor@python.org Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii It depends a lot on what your prior programming experience in other languages is. I have a large amount of prior programming experience, and I found Learning Python very good. The Python Cookbook (Martelli et. al., also O'Reilly) is very useful for learning the idioms. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Grady Henry Sent: 14 July 2006 06:20 To: tutor@python.org Subject: [Tutor] Python Programming Books I have three books on Python programming, Learning Python by O'Reilly, Beginning Python by Hetland, and Python in a Nutshell by O'Reilly. Are these good (recommended) books? Any others that might be recommended? ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Python Programming Books
On Thu, 13 Jul 2006, Grady Henry wrote: I have three books on Python programming, Learning Python by O'Reilly, Beginning Python by Hetland, and Python in a Nutshell by O'Reilly. Are these good (recommended) books? Any others that might be recommended? I don't know the Hetland book. I think a book-based approach (which is my favorite approach) to starting off in Python requires two books: one to introduce you to the language, and one to serve as a reference once your feet are wet. Learning Python is an excellent book for the former, and Python in a Nutshell is an excellent book for the latter. They're actually my favorites for those purposes, although there are certainly others. I'd go with those for a while and wait until you find your curiosity taking you into a particular area, whether it's database, Jython, GUI, XML, patterns, or whatever, and then either get an appropriate book for where your interests take you, or meybe pick up the Cookbook, which is an excellent book for browsing and stimulating ideas. ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Python Programming Books
On 7/14/06, Terry Carroll [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 13 Jul 2006, Grady Henry wrote: I have three books on Python programming, Learning Python by O'Reilly, Beginning Python by Hetland, and Python in a Nutshell by O'Reilly. Are these good (recommended) books? Any others that might be recommended? I don't know the Hetland book. I have about 10 Python books including the three books listed above. Of all the books I own, my first recommendation would be to start with Hetland's book, which I much prefer over Learning Python. Python in a Nutshell is my favourite reference book and I find the Python Cookbook to be a great reference to learn advanced stuff from. André ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Python Programming Books
I have three books on Python programming, Learning Python by O'Reilly, Beginning Python by Hetland, and Python in a Nutshell by O'Reilly. Are these good (recommended) books? Any others that might be recommended? Learning is a good book to learn from if you already know C. Beginning is a good book that is a general high-level introduction to Python. finally, Nutshell is a reference book, not a book to learn Python from. if you're looking for references, you may also consider the excellent Python Essential Reference (Beazley). if you want to demphasize the C, get more knowledge than just high-level, want a pseudo-reference, want to learn Python by trying all kinds of interesting exercises, and can wait a month and a half, i'm wrapping up the 2nd edition of Core Python now. for more info, click the link below to get to the book's website. there is also a link to the Reviews page so that you can see all feedback on the 1st edition. while it would be a conflict-of-interest for me to give *my* opinion of the book, it appears to be pretty well-received (mostly by word-of-mouth) based on comments i've seen so far. :-) cheers, -- wesley - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Core Python Programming, Prentice Hall, (c)2007,2001 http://corepython.com wesley.j.chun :: wescpy-at-gmail.com python training and technical consulting cyberweb.consulting : silicon valley, ca http://cyberwebconsulting.com ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Python Programming Books
On 7/14/06, wesley chun [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: while it would be a conflict-of-interest for me to give *my* opinion of the book, it appears to be pretty well-received (mostly by word-of-mouth) based on comments i've seen so far. :-) I don't know about others, but I think it might be of benefit if you could give an assessment that would include a description of the weaknesses of the book (e.g. [making this up] Core Python is not the best beginner's book for people primarily interested in making GUI based applications or games [Dawson's book is better in that respect.]) as well as its strengths. It might help us in deciding to point beginners to it (or not) as a potential choice based on their interests. [I could be in a minority opinion here. People like Kent, Alan, Danny, etc. should probably comment.] André ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Python Programming Books
I don't know about others, but I think it might be of benefit if you could give an assessment that would include a description of the weaknesses of the book [I could be in a minority opinion here. People like Kent, Alan, Danny, etc. should probably comment.] I'm no expert since I've only browsed Wesley's book in a store a few times but it seemed to be solid introductory material and a fair reference. It gets good reviews from readers. My only negative comment was that it was a very big book for its content, mainly because the layout had a biggish font and a lot of white space. But some folks like that. And I'd definitely prefer too big a font over too small (cf Beasley's Essential Reference, its just too small for comfort for my ageing eyes) Alan G. ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Python Programming Books
I also am a novice. Nearly finished with the first book listed below... If learning Python for the fun of it I have found this one enjoyable (pasted below is listing at Amazon): Python Programming for the Absolute Beginner, Second Edition (For the Absolute Beginner) by Michael Dawson (Paperback - Nov 8, 2005) Books: See all 13 items Buy new: $29.99 $18.89 Usually ships in 24 hours Used new from $18.89 If more serious and enjoy a little more math (though not too heavy) Many recommend the below. I am finding it useful (another Amazon cut paste) but not as fun: Python Programming: An Introduction to Computer Science by John M. Zelle (Paperback - Dec 2003) Books: See all 193 items Buy new: $40.00 $28.00 Usually ships in 6 to 12 days Used new from $20.00 My mind is still not clear about classes and objects. Have found chapters 12,13, and 14 of How to Think Like a Computer Scientist: Learning with Python, by Downey, Elkner, and Meyers to be very helpful in understanding these concepts (I think also available from Amazon but there is a version that can be downloaded free). However, I do not feel I have a full understanding at this point but expect to be getting close by the time I finish the first book listed above. - Original Message - From: Grady Henry [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: tutor@python.org Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 1:19 AM Subject: [Tutor] Python Programming Books I have three books on Python programming, Learning Python by O'Reilly, Beginning Python by Hetland, and Python in a Nutshell by O'Reilly. Are these good (recommended) books? Any others that might be recommended? ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor attachment: 1598631128.01._SCTHUMBZZZ_V54379790_.jpg attachment: 1887902996.01._SCTHUMBZZZ_.jpg ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
Re: [Tutor] Python Programming Books
(LONG... you've been warned ;-) ) andre wrote: I don't know about others, but I think it might be of benefit if you could give an assessment that would include a description of the weaknesses of the book I'm no expert since I've only browsed Wesley's book in a store a few times but it seemed to be solid introductory material and a fair reference. It gets good reviews from readers. My only negative comment was that it was a very big book for its content, mainly because the layout had a biggish font and a lot of white space. But some folks like that. And I'd definitely prefer too big a font over too small (cf Beasley's Essential Reference, its just too small for comfort for my ageing eyes) andre, good idea. i should have done this in my earlier post. Core Python is definitely targeted at programmers already knowledgeable in one other high-level language, so it is not the right book for the absolute beginner and/or those with no programming skills. the main goal of the book is to get someone up2speed with Python as quickly and as deeply as possible, because teaching Python's syntax isn't that hard, but getting someone to be as *effective* a Python programmer as possible in the shortest amount of time is the challenge. (you know that feeling, after you've just learned a language, where you can sort of write code in it but doesn't feel like 2nd nature yet? i want to shorten that time as well as minimize the number of bugs by teaching not to write them to begin with.) as alan has mentioned, the book is rather large and a burden to carry. this was partially my fault, and for the second edition, *definitely* my fault. let me explain with a short anecdote: for the 1st ed, the publisher wanted 500 pages, and i said, what, are you crazy? i can't write that much! how about 300? they repled with something to the effect of, ok, how about 350 and we'll order the extra thick paper. so i wrote and wrote, and came up with something around the original 500 pagecount they wanted, but this was plain text and images without any formatting. so when they took the manuscript and reformatted everything to conform to the Core series, margins, logos, paragraph types, etc., it suddenly exploded to 800 pages, and the thick paper had already been ordered. so apologies to alan and everyone for the fact that this book was so thick. for the 2nd edition, the plan was to split up the book like Core Java... a Vol1 with the main core material and Vol2 with the advanced stuff. the publishers didn't feel there was a market need for advanced books so they canned my idea. so now, with every edition, i will continually add more and more materials until they have no choice but to split it up. :-) so that's why it's my fault for the upcoming edition. hopefully the publisher will order then thinner paper this time. back to weaknesses... i want to have full chapters on XML, Win32 programming, XML, Java/Jython, web frameworks (Django, TuroboGears), content mgmt systems (Zope, Plone), Embedding Python, web tools (Cheetah, SQLObject, Kid, Myghty, FormEncode, CherryPy, etc.), Web Services/APIs (REST, XML, SOAP), other GUIs (wxWidgets, GTK+, KDE/Qt), etc. but sadly i don't have the time or expertise to have done all of those chapters -- this is definitely for future editions. for the 2nd ed., at least i was able to add full chapters on Internet Client Programming (FTP, NNTP, POP3, SMTP) and SQL/Database Programming (various topics like SQL review, DB-API, MySQL, PostgreSQL, Gadfly, sqlite, SQLObject, and SQLAlchemy) as well as ramp everything up to 2.5 and even some 2.6 and 2.7 features that have already been set in stone. another weakness -- i'm not sure it's is really a weakness as opposed to a preference -- is that some folks have told me of their desires of having lengthier code samples, i.e., complete applications as well as cover advanced topics even deeper. while the book does indeed cover the core stuff deeply, i don't have enough room to pound into advanced topics. i do have chapters on regular exprs, network programming with sockets, multithreaded programming, GUI programming, web/CGI programming, and extending Python, but i guess after learning the core stuff, they really want to get as deep into these advanced topics, which i don't provide. perhaps that wasn't the goal of the original book, which was to teach the core parts of Python. i only added the advanced topics chapters after completing the first part of the book, but was thinking, gee, i've taught people Python well, but haven't shown them what they could *build* with it yet! so that's where those chapters came from. as far as the lack of longer code samples goes, as a technical trainer, my experience has shown that short and concise examples are better for the reader. they can absorb smaller examples completely and learn the material better than wading through 5-10 pages of source code for a larger application. furthermore, the
[Tutor] Python Programming Books
I have three books on Python programming, Learning Python by O'Reilly, Beginning Python by Hetland, and Python in a Nutshell by O'Reilly. Are these good (recommended) books? Any others that might be recommended? ___ Tutor maillist - Tutor@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/tutor
