Re: Ubuntu Touch: Poppler or MuPDF as PDF renderer
Is it reliable, fast, resource-saving? Does it display all files, also large and complex ones? Does it allow different output formats (screen, PNG, PostScript, CUPS Raster, PCL, ...)? Does it allow filling and saving forms? Probably it is a good idea for the future, but above features need to get implemented first (especially output formats). There also needs to get added support for it in the cups-filters package. Till On 05/30/2013 08:34 AM, Jan Henke wrote: Hi, would a JavaScript implementation help? pdf.js from Mozilla is available under the Apache v2 licence at github: https://github.com/mozilla/pdf.js/ Best Regards Jan Henke Am 29.05.2013 23:26, schrieb Till Kamppeter: On 05/21/2013 12:32 AM, Alexander Antimonov wrote: As both Poppler and MuPDF are strong copylefted, question is if either of two may be turned into standard API for pdf rendering? Because doing so would require third-party apps be GPL compatible. Seems that someone needs to start writing a new PDF renderer from scratch then. All Open Source PDF renderers seem to be strict GPL. Till -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Ubuntu Touch: Poppler or MuPDF as PDF renderer
Hi, would a JavaScript implementation help? pdf.js from Mozilla is available under the Apache v2 licence at github: https://github.com/mozilla/pdf.js/ Best Regards Jan Henke Am 29.05.2013 23:26, schrieb Till Kamppeter: On 05/21/2013 12:32 AM, Alexander Antimonov wrote: As both Poppler and MuPDF are strong copylefted, question is if either of two may be turned into standard API for pdf rendering? Because doing so would require third-party apps be GPL compatible. Seems that someone needs to start writing a new PDF renderer from scratch then. All Open Source PDF renderers seem to be strict GPL. Till -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Ubuntu Touch: Poppler or MuPDF as PDF renderer
On 05/21/2013 12:32 AM, Alexander Antimonov wrote: As both Poppler and MuPDF are strong copylefted, question is if either of two may be turned into standard API for pdf rendering? Because doing so would require third-party apps be GPL compatible. Seems that someone needs to start writing a new PDF renderer from scratch then. All Open Source PDF renderers seem to be strict GPL. Till -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Ubuntu Touch: Poppler or MuPDF as PDF renderer
Hi Paul, On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 8:35 PM, Paul Sladen ubu...@paul.sladen.org wrote: On Fri, 2013-05-17 at 01:25:12PM +0200, Till Kamppeter wrote: On a mobile device this is overkill. We need only one PDF renderer Is this just for the Phablet Core apps? Or to be part of the generally-available standard API for third-party apps? MuPDF is available either a proprietary $$,$$$/year licence, or under the GPL. If either of those licences is not a problem, then the other options Alexander has listed can be investigated/stated. -Paul As both Poppler and MuPDF are strong copylefted, question is if either of two may be turned into standard API for pdf rendering? Because doing so would require third-party apps be GPL compatible. Cheers. -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Ubuntu Touch: Poppler or MuPDF as PDF renderer
On 05/18/2013 10:37 PM, Alexander Antimonov wrote: What exact testing do we want: render speed, memory consumption, robustness, supported features comparison, code quality, all of these and more? Cheers. Most importnt is resource consumption: disk space, RAM, CPU, battery. Does MuPDF give a significant advantage against Poppler? Output quality also needs to be checked. If low resource consumption is gained by a terrible output quality, this will not help much. Till -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Ubuntu Touch: Poppler or MuPDF as PDF renderer
Hi Till, On Fri, 2013-05-17 at 01:25:12PM +0200, Till Kamppeter wrote: ... The Ubuntu desktop uses Poppler for screen display and Ghostscript for printing. On a mobile device this is overkill. We need only one PDF renderer and also no PostScript interpreter as for printing we expect all apps to send PDF. ... So I want to call for testing the two (Poppler, MuPDF) and for discussion. Till What exact testing do we want: render speed, memory consumption, robustness, supported features comparison, code quality, all of these and more? Cheers. -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Ubuntu Touch: Poppler or MuPDF as PDF renderer
On Friday 17 May 2013 15:40:56 Till Kamppeter wrote: Hi, Hi during my thoughts about the printing stack for Ubuntu Touch [1] I came to the conclusion that printing needs a PDF renderer to turn incoming PDF into the printer's language (PWG Raster, PostScript, PCL, ...) but a PDF renderer needs already to be on a mobile device to make it able to display PDF files on the screen. The Ubuntu desktop uses Poppler for screen display and Ghostscript for printing. On a mobile device this is overkill. We need only one PDF renderer and also no PostScript interpreter as for printing we expect all apps to send PDF. So Ghostscript is out of the question here as it is large and the PDF interpreter is written in PostScript. Poppler has the advantage of having a long history and so it should deal best with quirky files. MuPDF is written with lightweightness in mind, is the only free software which allows filling and saving PDF forms, Poppler supports filling and saving forms since a long time. Cheers, Albert and is written by the Ghostscript developers who are experts on the field of printing. So I want to call for testing the two (Poppler, MuPDF) and for discussion. We have also a Blueprint [2] and a Wiki page [3]. Till [1]https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-1305-printing-stack- with-mobile-in-mind [2]https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-1305-pdf-renderer-f or-ubuntu-touch [3]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/PDFRenderer -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Ubuntu Touch: Poppler or MuPDF as PDF renderer
Steve Langasek [2013-05-18 0:17 -0500]: This doesn't sound accurate to me - I've used evince before (which is poppler based) to fill out PDF forms and save them. Maybe this should be checked? Yeah, I do that all the time. Saving back encrypted documents doesn't work, but one can always print back to a PDF file instead of saving. This doesn't preserve the interactive forms of course, but is good enough for most purposes. Martin -- Martin Pitt| http://www.piware.de Ubuntu Developer (www.ubuntu.com) | Debian Developer (www.debian.org) signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Ubuntu Touch: Poppler or MuPDF as PDF renderer
On Sat, 18 May 2013, Alexander Antimonov wrote: On Fri, 2013-05-17 at 01:25:12PM +0200, Till Kamppeter wrote: On a mobile device this is overkill. We need only one PDF renderer Is this just for the Phablet Core apps? Or to be part of the generally-available standard API for third-party apps? What exact testing do we want: ... all of these and more? MuPDF is available either a proprietary $$,$$$/year licence, or under the GPL. If either of those licences is not a problem, then the other options Alexander has listed can be investigated/stated. -Paul -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Ubuntu Touch: Poppler or MuPDF as PDF renderer
On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 10:39:31PM EST, Oliver Grawert wrote: given that we want full convergence, which means using the same default core tools on the phone as well as on the desktop, is MuPDF ready to replace Poppler on the desktop ? Poppler also has a better accessibility story, in that it is possible to use Orca with evince to read PDF files to a limited degree, and this is likely to be improved on in the future, either in Evince, or a QML based app that uses poppler for our convergence story. Luke -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Ubuntu Touch: Poppler or MuPDF as PDF renderer
On 05/18/2013 07:17 AM, Steve Langasek wrote: Hi Till, On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 01:25:12PM +0200, Till Kamppeter wrote: So Ghostscript is out of the question here as it is large and the PDF interpreter is written in PostScript. Poppler has the advantage of having a long history and so it should deal best with quirky files. MuPDF is written with lightweightness in mind, is the only free software which allows filling and saving PDF forms, This doesn't sound accurate to me - I've used evince before (which is poppler based) to fill out PDF forms and save them. Maybe this should be checked? See https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evince/+bug/1153517 Till -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Ubuntu Touch: Poppler or MuPDF as PDF renderer
On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 10:16:09AM +0200, Till Kamppeter wrote: On 05/18/2013 07:17 AM, Steve Langasek wrote: On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 01:25:12PM +0200, Till Kamppeter wrote: So Ghostscript is out of the question here as it is large and the PDF interpreter is written in PostScript. Poppler has the advantage of having a long history and so it should deal best with quirky files. MuPDF is written with lightweightness in mind, is the only free software which allows filling and saving PDF forms, This doesn't sound accurate to me - I've used evince before (which is poppler based) to fill out PDF forms and save them. Maybe this should be checked? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/evince/+bug/1153517 Thanks for the reference. However, this doesn't say poppler does not allow filling and saving PDF forms, it says there is a bug in saving forms with encrypted PDFs which is fixed in a later version of poppler. It seems like we should just get the poppler transition done (after confirming that it fixes the problem), and be done with it? -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/ slanga...@ubuntu.com vor...@debian.org signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Ubuntu Touch: Poppler or MuPDF as PDF renderer
Hi, during my thoughts about the printing stack for Ubuntu Touch [1] I came to the conclusion that printing needs a PDF renderer to turn incoming PDF into the printer's language (PWG Raster, PostScript, PCL, ...) but a PDF renderer needs already to be on a mobile device to make it able to display PDF files on the screen. The Ubuntu desktop uses Poppler for screen display and Ghostscript for printing. On a mobile device this is overkill. We need only one PDF renderer and also no PostScript interpreter as for printing we expect all apps to send PDF. So Ghostscript is out of the question here as it is large and the PDF interpreter is written in PostScript. Poppler has the advantage of having a long history and so it should deal best with quirky files. MuPDF is written with lightweightness in mind, is the only free software which allows filling and saving PDF forms, and is written by the Ghostscript developers who are experts on the field of printing. So I want to call for testing the two (Poppler, MuPDF) and for discussion. We have also a Blueprint [2] and a Wiki page [3]. Till [1]https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-1305-printing-stack-with-mobile-in-mind [2]https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-1305-pdf-renderer-for-ubuntu-touch [3]https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/PDFRenderer -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Ubuntu Touch: Poppler or MuPDF as PDF renderer
hi, On Fr, 2013-05-17 at 13:25 +0200, Till Kamppeter wrote: Hi, during my thoughts about the printing stack for Ubuntu Touch [1] I came to the conclusion that printing needs a PDF renderer to turn incoming PDF into the printer's language (PWG Raster, PostScript, PCL, ...) but a PDF renderer needs already to be on a mobile device to make it able to display PDF files on the screen. The Ubuntu desktop uses Poppler for screen display and Ghostscript for printing. On a mobile device this is overkill. We need only one PDF renderer and also no PostScript interpreter as for printing we expect all apps to send PDF. given that we want full convergence, which means using the same default core tools on the phone as well as on the desktop, is MuPDF ready to replace Poppler on the desktop ? ciao oli signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
Re: Ubuntu Touch: Poppler or MuPDF as PDF renderer
Hi Till, On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 01:25:12PM +0200, Till Kamppeter wrote: So Ghostscript is out of the question here as it is large and the PDF interpreter is written in PostScript. Poppler has the advantage of having a long history and so it should deal best with quirky files. MuPDF is written with lightweightness in mind, is the only free software which allows filling and saving PDF forms, This doesn't sound accurate to me - I've used evince before (which is poppler based) to fill out PDF forms and save them. Maybe this should be checked? Cheers, -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/ slanga...@ubuntu.com vor...@debian.org signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- ubuntu-devel mailing list ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel
