Re: Lost translations from ubuntu-docs
Hi Danilo, thanks for the clarification, I had seen the obsolete strings, but I hadn't noticed they also contained some which before would have been fuzzy ones. I'm happy with this workaround until the rosetta-fuzzy-merge gets implemented, since at least there is no loss of information. Regards, David. 2008/10/16 Danilo Šegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Hi David, > > У сре, 15. 10 2008. у 20:12 +0200, David Planella пише: > >> I'd like to report a problem which I believe has to do with the >> importation of the new documentation templates: >> >> Three days ago I finished the translation of add-applications directly >> in Rosetta, and I send an e-mail to our team list indicating the >> changed strings for proof-checking. I've jst been made aware that >> those translated strings are untranslated as of today, so it seems >> that they somehow got lost (they do not appear on the downloaded PO >> file). Now I haven't been tracking when the new templates finally >> landed in Rosetta, but this seems to me that something went wrong in >> the importation. > > We have recently stopped importing fuzzy messages from gettext in > Launchpad Translations. However, these messages are still available in > Launchpad as "obsolete" messages, so a workaround for you (and those in > similar situations) is to download a PO file, and then use standard > gettext tools (eg. msgmerge) to reuse them (or tools with a better > similarity matching than gettext's, which is really bad). > >> Unfortunately, I haven't got a local copy of those translations, so >> I'll have to translate them all again. > > Just follow the procedure above, or download them from eg. Hardy series > (or ubuntu-docs source code repository). This should give you complete > translations, and you should be able to update these manually. > >> Could someone please have a look at it or confirm it? I reported >> something similar a couple of days ago [1] (on the last paragraphs), >> also for ubuntu-docs and debian-installer. > > The plan is to implement > > https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/rosetta/+spec/rosetta-fuzzy-merge > > which will provide better support for this. gettext fuzzy matching is > in general pretty bad, and has caused a lot of confusion in our UI in > the past. > > Until that point, you should use tricks like above to reuse previous > translations. I am sorry this is causing you so many problems, but I > believe this is only going to affect specific modules like ubuntu-docs > (and other documentation). > > Cheers, > Danilo > > > -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
Re: desktop-* from KDE4 not imported automatically
Hi Timo, У чет, 16. 10 2008. у 16:26 +0300, Timo Jyrinki пише: > > Just FYI. I'm not sure if they even come in some source tarball or > not, or is it a special case that should be done "manually" (by > Rosetta developers)? We've never handled cases like this. > In the upstream translation stats, they are > available under each module separately, like > http://i18n.kde.org/stats/gui/stable-kde4/team/fi/kdebase/ > (desktop_kdebase.po) There's obviously still some confusion on what KDE4 templates should be. For instance, I can see the following two in Launchpad: https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/kdebase-workspace/+pots/desktop-kdebase-workspace https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/kdebase-runtime/+pots/desktop-kdebase-runtime They seem closely related, and related to desktop-kdebase one as well. They need more investigation to see what's the right thing here. I'll try to find someone who can tell us what's the issue here. Cheers, Danilo -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
Firefox startup page translation
What about translate ALL the Firefox startup page?
Since Hardy (or even before, I can't remember), the Firefox startup page
contains a Google search box (with a "Search" button) and a right
sidebar with Ubuntu-related information ("Get Ubuntu Support", "Ubuntu
Merchandise", "Get Involved with Ubuntu" and "Ubuntu Forms").
All those information are untranslated, and can't be translated in any
way. Therefore, my Firefox startup page contains both Spanish and
English strings, which is rather ugly :(
It could be great to get them fully translated.
Thanks in advance,
Ricardo.
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Re: Lost translations from ubuntu-docs
Hi David, У сре, 15. 10 2008. у 20:12 +0200, David Planella пише: > I'd like to report a problem which I believe has to do with the > importation of the new documentation templates: > > Three days ago I finished the translation of add-applications directly > in Rosetta, and I send an e-mail to our team list indicating the > changed strings for proof-checking. I've jst been made aware that > those translated strings are untranslated as of today, so it seems > that they somehow got lost (they do not appear on the downloaded PO > file). Now I haven't been tracking when the new templates finally > landed in Rosetta, but this seems to me that something went wrong in > the importation. We have recently stopped importing fuzzy messages from gettext in Launchpad Translations. However, these messages are still available in Launchpad as "obsolete" messages, so a workaround for you (and those in similar situations) is to download a PO file, and then use standard gettext tools (eg. msgmerge) to reuse them (or tools with a better similarity matching than gettext's, which is really bad). > Unfortunately, I haven't got a local copy of those translations, so > I'll have to translate them all again. Just follow the procedure above, or download them from eg. Hardy series (or ubuntu-docs source code repository). This should give you complete translations, and you should be able to update these manually. > Could someone please have a look at it or confirm it? I reported > something similar a couple of days ago [1] (on the last paragraphs), > also for ubuntu-docs and debian-installer. The plan is to implement https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/rosetta/+spec/rosetta-fuzzy-merge which will provide better support for this. gettext fuzzy matching is in general pretty bad, and has caused a lot of confusion in our UI in the past. Until that point, you should use tricks like above to reuse previous translations. I am sorry this is causing you so many problems, but I believe this is only going to affect specific modules like ubuntu-docs (and other documentation). Cheers, Danilo -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
Re: new strings in ubuntu-docs
Matthew East wrote: > Ok, fine. I've noticed that the queue has 1115 po files marked as > "Failed": these look like the po files which were uploaded with the > ubuntu-docs package. Any idea why these failed? Most of them simply didn't have the revision dates in their headers updated, which should mean they had no changes. It's not necessarily a real failure, but it's reported as one on the assumption that it may be a mistake. Once a file has been imported successfully, its entry is cleaned up. The rest are "string not terminated" cases. These are usually from carriage returns inside quotes: whether we should read those as newlines depends on the platforms of the people who edited the file, but apparently there's one platform out there that uses both line feed *and* carriage return, confusing everybody. I guess on a regular platform it's easy to insert a closing quote between the two by accident. Here they are, with the location of the first error: TemplateLangLine about-ubuntuel 103 about-ubuntuka 46 about-ubuntupl 191 about-ubunturu 343 about-ubuntusl 192 about-ubuntuzh_CN 300 add-applicationset 51 add-applicationska 419 add-applicationspt 226 add-applicationszh_HK 132 administrative et 214 administrative he 211 advanced-topics ur 49 basic-commands gl 282 basic-commands ja 78 basic-commands nb 66 basic-commands nl 59 basic-commands zh_CH 735 config-desktop pt_BR 151 config-desktop zh_CN 136 desktop-effects he 147 desktop-effects ja 230 games es 109 games ms 107 games ro 187 games sc 166 games zh_CN 229 interneten_AU 179 internetet 1503 internetfi 704 internetka 64 internetro 1701 internetzh_TW 147 keeping-safegl 522 keeping-safehu 560 keeping-safesk 296 musicvideophotosru 1758 office es 654 office it 31 office ml 27 office nl 174 printinghu 320 printingja 488 programming tr 491 serverguide en_GB 10248 serverguide it 335 serverguide ja 86 serverguide mk 434 serverguide ps 5896 serverguide pt 2892 serverguide pt_BR 929 serverguide ru 7774 windows bg 135 windows pt_BR 2272 Jeroen -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
desktop-* from KDE4 not imported automatically
Hi, We've noticed desktop-* have not been brought from upstream, even though otherwise KDE4 (among all else) is starting to look fine finally. This can be seen eg. by looking at: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/kdebase/+pots/desktop-kdebase Apparently the rare ones with green bars have done "Published upload":s of PO files downloaded from KDE's translations site, including a member of Finnish translation team which did it for us. Just FYI. I'm not sure if they even come in some source tarball or not, or is it a special case that should be done "manually" (by Rosetta developers)? In the upstream translation stats, they are available under each module separately, like http://i18n.kde.org/stats/gui/stable-kde4/team/fi/kdebase/ (desktop_kdebase.po) -Timo -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
Re: New modules for Intrepid?
Hi Milo, У пон, 13. 10 2008. у 21:35 +0200, Milo Casagrande пише: > I found out these new packages in Intrepid: > > http://tinyurl.com/3maxyy > > Apart from the first one that's the usual "application", the other four > are all docs. > > Do somebody know something more about that? Will Launchpad handle those > translations? They were approved by mistake: I am sorry about that. I have disabled them (yesterday). Cheers, Danilo -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
Re: ubuntu-docs updates for translation into Intrepid
Hi Matthew, У чет, 16. 10 2008. у 10:00 +0100, Matthew East пише: > > I assume there is no way to detect whether a particular pot file in > the queue has strings which are not matched by the various po files in > the queue. There is, but it would be CPU intensive task, something we'd like to avoid. > So, would a way to improve the priorities be to prioritise > pot files which are uploaded *by hand* (as opposed to through Soyuz) > ahead of everything else, on the assumption that such pot files are > always going to contain strings which haven't been translated > anywhere? In general, my feeling is that we should prioritise all files uploaded by hand. The last time we had that discussion inside the team (more than a year ago), performance improvements we did proved to be enough of a solution, so we've never bothered looking at it again. I'd agree it's the correct solution, but would first have to look at the corner cases to estimate how much work are we talking about. Cheers, Danilo -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
Re: ubuntu-docs updates for translation into Intrepid
Matthew East wrote: > On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:19 AM, Jeroen Vermeulen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> It largely depends on how much of the overall translation work the pending >> imports will cover. The lower the ratio, the more sense it makes to >> prioritize the templates. > > Ok, I don't really understand this, because I would have thought that > all new strings are worth having in the interface asap before po > files, on the assumption that merging the outstanding pot files in the > queue probably wouldn't take that long (how many imports does > Launchpad get through per day?) At the moment we're importing about 2k-5k files per day, although variability is huge. Most of the remaining files are OpenOffice updates or newer uploads. The problem with importing templates long before their uploaded translations is the risk of redundant translation work. It might sound like the sort of problem you'd like to have, but actually we've found that it generates some very painful problem patterns: 1. Translators do lots of work, but their suggestions are not accepted because the messages they translated also turn out to be covered by the upstream imports. So they find back nothing of their own work in the end result and feel rightfully frustrated. 2. Some of those translators then mistakenly identify not being a member of an Ubuntu translation team as the root problem, and sometimes file membership applications as Rosetta questions. 3. Translations are accepted and then override the upstream ones that are imported later, leading to complaints about unwarranted "forking" of the translations, bug reports, demands that we block this or remove that, and so on. I've even had someone from a translation team ask me: "who reviews our translations and decides what goes into Ubuntu?" 4. People experiencing this find it hard to get to the places where their effort is going to be most useful, especially without good team coordination, and come up with ideas for fixing this in the UI. They are often good ideas, often overlapping or conflicting ones, never perfect solutions. And so far we never quite get around to choosing ones and implementing them. A lot of the fallout ends up with us, the application developers, even when some of them are at least partly matters of Ubuntu community organisation. We spend a lot of time on this, despite various policies and practices aimed at minimizing them, because until recently the Ubuntu division did not have anyone at all to coordinate the translation effort. That's been partly addressed now, in the Intrepid cycle, but the new role is still gearing up. We do make improvements on the engineering side to help address these problems: Ubuntu translations to language that have nobody to manage them no longer solicit suggestions. We no longer need to take Launchpad offline to initialize translations for a new release. A lot of outdated or misleading UI text about translation teams has been cleaned up and documentation has been rewritten. Also, as of next month, upstream translations will start replacing ones that are translated only in Launchpad but not upstream. (This would have rolled out last night, but we were busy dealing with Ubuntu imports operationally). Message-sharing will break down the walls between translations of different Ubuntu releases, eliminating much duplication of effort and taking a huge amount of pain out of translation openings, but it's a major effort that we complete one step at a time. Given the amount of pain it can cause, I think moving templates ahead of translations as general practice is replacing one problem with another. Our current plans are to open translations for new Ubuntu series much more aggressively, building on the organisational changes being made on the Ubuntu side; continue improving documentation thanks to the unrelenting efforts of Matthew Revell; and continue with these technical measures. A more precisely outlined procedure might still help. For instance, we might want to prioritize templates that have been Approved for a long time but which don't have any translations in the queue. One limitation there would be that the auto-approval process is already loading our script server more heavily than we'd like. Or we might want to show "careful, this translation has an import coming" warnings. The limitations there would be UI design, page rendering cost, and engineering time. Jeroen -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
Re: ubuntu-docs updates for translation into Intrepid
On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 9:06 AM, Jeroen Vermeulen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The problem with importing templates long before their uploaded translations > is the risk of redundant translation work. It might sound like the sort of > problem you'd like to have, but actually we've found that it generates some > very painful problem patterns: Ah, now I understand why we appear to be talking at cross purposes. You're talking about importing templates which come in with upstream imports (and which are therefore accompanied by upstream po files which contain translations of the new strings). I'm talking about a template which is changed in Ubuntu, and which therefore doesn't have any upstream translations. In the case of ubuntu-docs, if I upload a translation template, there are no translations of those new strings, so there is no risk of redundant translation work. That's because ubuntu-docs has no upstream translations: all translation is done in Ubuntu. I assume there is no way to detect whether a particular pot file in the queue has strings which are not matched by the various po files in the queue. So, would a way to improve the priorities be to prioritise pot files which are uploaded *by hand* (as opposed to through Soyuz) ahead of everything else, on the assumption that such pot files are always going to contain strings which haven't been translated anywhere? -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
Re: new strings in ubuntu-docs
On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 9:17 AM, Jeroen Vermeulen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Matthew East wrote: > >> Jeroen: there are still 4 pot files to be imported and over 1000 po >> files: what are the chances these will all be done by Sunday 19? > > Just checking: these were the ubuntu-docs ones, right? I had their priority > bumped up, but I think they would have been imported by then in any case. Ok, fine. I've noticed that the queue has 1115 po files marked as "Failed": these look like the po files which were uploaded with the ubuntu-docs package. Any idea why these failed? -- Matthew East http://www.mdke.org gnupg pub 1024D/0E6B06FF -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
Re: new strings in ubuntu-docs
Matthew East wrote: > Jeroen: there are still 4 pot files to be imported and over 1000 po > files: what are the chances these will all be done by Sunday 19? Just checking: these were the ubuntu-docs ones, right? I had their priority bumped up, but I think they would have been imported by then in any case. A great majority of the files still on the Approved queue are OpenOffice ones. I moved those to the back of the queue (as before) because we've already run full OpenOffice imports, and these would probably give us relatively little compared to the other files we could be importing in the same time. Jeroen -- ubuntu-translators mailing list ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
