Re: Draw over existing objects

[Jan Schenkel]

--- "Frank D. Engel, Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [snip]
> 
> I'm creating a custom report layout editor to be
> included with a commercial 
> software product, and would like to be able to
> scroll larger report 
> layouts rather than splitting them into separate
> windows.  I am now 
> realizing various issues with my current
> implementation (which uses 
> separate windows for each section -- this isn't the
> problem I'm trying 
> to solve, but I'd like to fix it anyway), and in
> considering starting 
> over, I'd like to get this done right this time,
> including a scrolling, 
> resizing window representing the report layout.  I
> want it to act like 
> a drawing program, to make life a little easier for
> the end users.
> 
> And looking at the reports product which has been
> brought up on this 
> list previously:
> 
> 1. I want to distribute the editor with the product,
> which would 
> seemingly require a royalty fee (or at least an
> expensive custom 
> version purchase), which I'm trying to avoid.
> 
> 2. The product will gather information from a
> database, and I want the 
> layouts stored on the database server itself, rather
> than files on a 
> disk.
> 
> 3. The editor brought up on the list allows use of
> Rev functions, etc. 
> in fields, and I don't want to risk users picking up
> on the functions, 
> etc. which I have included in the (rather large,
> complex) product and 
> misusing them.
> 
> 4. I'd like the editor to be a separate program, so
> that I can have it 
> shared between several products in a series. 
> Information about the 
> various types of reports which layouts can be
> generated for should also 
> be gathered from information which an installer will
> populate the 
> database with.  This includes a list of available
> sections, fields, 
> etc. for any given report (and there will be a
> different set of 
> sections possible with different types of reports).
> 
> I could go on, but I think you get the idea by now. 
> The editor is 
> somewhat specialized, but I want it to look a bit
> more professional 
> than a too-highly specialized tool.
> 
> Of course, dragging the palette window around to
> make a toolbar isn't 
> particularly professional-looking, either...
> 
> Please Rev, let us specify a different tool for a
> single group placed 
> on a card!  Please...
> 
> Or at least let us scroll entire windows, rather
> than just groups: I 
> could stand to use a floating palette if that
> helps...
> 
> 
> -
>
---
> Frank D. Engel, Jr.  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 

Hi Frank,

As the programmer of Quartam Reports I know how you
feel about certain limitations Revolution imposes when
it comes to building drawing apps. Believe me, even my
neighbours know about them by now. *grin*

However, I'm a little sad that you didn't contact me
before dismissing the option of a custom version for
your product. A quick check of your above list of
requirements shows me that it would not have been
difficult to accomodate your needs.

Without knowing the amount of hours you have already
spent and are going to spend on making your own tool,
nor your hourly rate, a custom version might very well
have beaten the cost and let you concentrate on adding
core features to your application.

Of course everyone plans and acts out his own
projects, but sometimes it's more economical. And if
you don't ask, you won't know.

Best regards,

Jan Schenkel.

Quartam - Tools for Revolution


=
"As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La 
Rochefoucauld)

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RE: Draw over existing objects (and can'tselect script for Richard!!)

[MisterX]

s 
> in SuperCard.

Im thinking about it as you see. I found the supercard app/design modes too
limiting for the kind of work i did and couldn't justify the price
difference... Despite the color and macdraw advantages and it's enhanced IDE
but it was nice to have superPaint in the card! I miss SuperPaint ;0

But the solution to editing, like freehand, a control individually from the
group while in group mode is now easy with the right modifier key held down
and there's even a second way to do it in TAOO! ResizeN2O shows the way,
it's ridiculously easy now that i see it! ;) 
But there you have a start up script and the resizeN2O to use for behavior
templates (just like in TAOO). Left is rendering/editing the points of the
selpolygon.   

Just my 2 cents..

Cheerios
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com 


> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
> Richard Gaskin
> Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 17:20
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Draw over existing objects
> 
> MisterX wrote:
> > Frank
> > 
> > 
> >>Maybe I'm just missing something here, but that stack doesn't seem 
> >>relevant.
> >>
> >>set the tool to "graphic"
> >>set the style of the templateGraphic to "rectangle"
> > 
> > 
> > you're not obliged to be in drawing mode... You can 
> simulate it with a 
> > cursor and a moving/resizing rect or graphic (with a 
> marquee pattern).
> 
> I would encourage you to review the discussion logged with 
> these two feature requests:
> <http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=623>
> <http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase/show_bug.cgi?id=624>
> 
> Yes, one can simulate a lot of things, but it won't have the 
> simplicity or performance of using the behaviors built into 
> the engine with the pointer tool.  Try it and you'll see.
> 
> Making a simple MacDraw-like app is a lt of 
> work in Rev today, but could be as simple as doing so in 
> SuperCard, with greater flexibility, if those two requests 
> were acted on.
> 
> One of the most inspiring things I've ever worked with was 
> the old SampleDraw app that shipped with SuperCard.  A simple 
> MacDraw-like app, it had very little code and served as an 
> excellent example of making an app with its own documents.  
> Most of its behaviors were simply built into the engine with 
> the pointer tool, something that at that time was unique among xTalks.
> 
> Rev's engine already provides some 90% of the core behaviors 
> needed for simple drawing apps.  Unfortunately the remaining 
> 10% is also essential if the existing 90% is to be useful in 
> making such apps.
> 
> Once RR completes BZ items #623 and #624 whole new worlds 
> open up, at least as easily as accomplishing the same things 
> in SuperCard.
> 
> --
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Fourth World Media Corporation
>   __
>   Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev 
> ___
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Re: Draw over existing objects

[Richard Gaskin]

MisterX wrote:
Frank

Maybe I'm just missing something here, but that stack doesn't 
seem relevant.

set the tool to "graphic"
set the style of the templateGraphic to "rectangle"

you're not obliged to be in drawing mode... You can simulate it with a 
cursor and a moving/resizing rect or graphic (with a marquee pattern).
I would encourage you to review the discussion logged with these two 
feature requests:



Yes, one can simulate a lot of things, but it won't have the simplicity 
or performance of using the behaviors built into the engine with the 
pointer tool.  Try it and you'll see.

Making a simple MacDraw-like app is a lt of work in Rev 
today, but could be as simple as doing so in SuperCard, with greater 
flexibility, if those two requests were acted on.

One of the most inspiring things I've ever worked with was the old 
SampleDraw app that shipped with SuperCard.  A simple MacDraw-like app, 
it had very little code and served as an excellent example of making an 
app with its own documents.  Most of its behaviors were simply built 
into the engine with the pointer tool, something that at that time was 
unique among xTalks.

Rev's engine already provides some 90% of the core behaviors needed for 
simple drawing apps.  Unfortunately the remaining 10% is also essential 
if the existing 90% is to be useful in making such apps.

Once RR completes BZ items #623 and #624 whole new worlds open up, at 
least as easily as accomplishing the same things in SuperCard.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 __
 Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev
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Re: Draw over existing objects

[Frank D. Engel, Jr.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
On Apr 26, 2005, at 10:19 AM, MisterX wrote:
you're not obliged to be in drawing mode... You can simulate it with a
cursor and a moving/resizing rect or graphic (with a marquee pattern).
Except that I want to support nearly all of the graphics shapes -- 
rects, roundRects, ovals, curves, etc. -- and this would be 
substantially more work, possibly negating the value of doing this at 
all.

Then you select what falls in the "selection" by intersection or
inclusion... Im not sure i'd use
a group rather than a simple rect graphic (simpler)...
Except that the group does the work of handling scrolling for you.  The 
group fills virtually the entire window (except where the toolbar is) 
- -- so there would be no value in using a rect.

The group is not marked as opaque, currently has no objects
within it (it is an empty group), is set to cantSelect, has
both scrollbars, is visible, and covers all but a small part
of the window, where I am dragging a palette along with the
window (as a toolbar -- not a perfect solution, of course,
but the best I've come up with so far given Rev's feature set
in terms of the drawing tools).
im lost here... What does the group do? Are you supposed to scroll
when dragging beyond the edge?
Not necessarily (though that's not a particularly bad idea); I'm 
creating a custom report layout editor to be included with a commercial 
software product, and would like to be able to scroll larger report 
layouts rather than splitting them into separate windows.  I am now 
realizing various issues with my current implementation (which uses 
separate windows for each section -- this isn't the problem I'm trying 
to solve, but I'd like to fix it anyway), and in considering starting 
over, I'd like to get this done right this time, including a scrolling, 
resizing window representing the report layout.  I want it to act like 
a drawing program, to make life a little easier for the end users.

And looking at the reports product which has been brought up on this 
list previously:

1. I want to distribute the editor with the product, which would 
seemingly require a royalty fee (or at least an expensive custom 
version purchase), which I'm trying to avoid.

2. The product will gather information from a database, and I want the 
layouts stored on the database server itself, rather than files on a 
disk.

3. The editor brought up on the list allows use of Rev functions, etc. 
in fields, and I don't want to risk users picking up on the functions, 
etc. which I have included in the (rather large, complex) product and 
misusing them.

4. I'd like the editor to be a separate program, so that I can have it 
shared between several products in a series.  Information about the 
various types of reports which layouts can be generated for should also 
be gathered from information which an installer will populate the 
database with.  This includes a list of available sections, fields, 
etc. for any given report (and there will be a different set of 
sections possible with different types of reports).

I could go on, but I think you get the idea by now.  The editor is 
somewhat specialized, but I want it to look a bit more professional 
than a too-highly specialized tool.

Of course, dragging the palette window around to make a toolbar isn't 
particularly professional-looking, either...

Please Rev, let us specify a different tool for a single group placed 
on a card!  Please...

Or at least let us scroll entire windows, rather than just groups: I 
could stand to use a floating palette if that helps...

- ---
Frank D. Engel, Jr.  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
$ ln -s /usr/share/kjvbible /usr/manual
$ true | cat /usr/manual | grep "John 3:16"
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten 
Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have 
everlasting life.
$
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)

iD8DBQFCblmX7aqtWrR9cZoRAgoCAJ9Ja0jsZrK8nv2kxokc9cNH4kMj5wCfZf6m
ndKQLd3k0Lu2lXeyiiTOZD0=
=k0sp
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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RE: Draw over existing objects

[MisterX]

Frank

> Maybe I'm just missing something here, but that stack doesn't 
> seem relevant.
> 
> set the tool to "graphic"
> set the style of the templateGraphic to "rectangle"

you're not obliged to be in drawing mode... You can simulate it with a 
cursor and a moving/resizing rect or graphic (with a marquee pattern).

> then let the user draw in a window whose entire visible area 
> is covered by a group.  The tool seemingly ignores the fact 
> that it is a "drawing" 
> tool (rather than a "selection" tool) and tries to select the 
> group rather than draw a new rectangle.

Then you select what falls in the "selection" by intersection or 
inclusion... Im not sure i'd use
a group rather than a simple rect graphic (simpler)... 

> The group is not marked as opaque, currently has no objects 
> within it (it is an empty group), is set to cantSelect, has 
> both scrollbars, is visible, and covers all but a small part 
> of the window, where I am dragging a palette along with the 
> window (as a toolbar -- not a perfect solution, of course, 
> but the best I've come up with so far given Rev's feature set 
> in terms of the drawing tools).

im lost here... What does the group do? Are you supposed to scroll 
when dragging beyond the edge?

Xav

> On Apr 25, 2005, at 2:20 PM, MisterX wrote:
> 
> > look at how ResizeN2O does it...
> >
> > 
> http://www.monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=78
> >
> > Another example (but in browse mode) is how i make palettes 
> > draggeable...
> > just intercept (or pass) the mousedown except where you 
> shouldn't (or 
> > should)...
> >
> > cheers
> > Xavier
> > http://monsieurx.com - TAOO - the rave in RAD
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf 
> Of Frank 
> >> D. Engel, Jr.
> >> Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 19:45
> >> To: How to use Revolution
> >> Subject: Draw over existing objects
> >>
> >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> >> Hash: SHA1
> >>
> >> I am trying to set up an environment where I can use the standard 
> >> drawing tools (graphic, field, pointer) and draw over top 
> of a group, 
> >> so that I can catch the new objects and add them to the 
> group myself.
> >> I set the cantSelect of the group, etc., and that stuff is working 
> >> okay; however, when I try to draw over the group, nothing happens.
> >>
> >> Apparently, Rev automatically tries to select an object when you 
> >> mouseDown on it in pointer mode, even when you are using 
> the graphic 
> >> tool instead of the pointer tool.  Thus instead of 
> starting to draw a 
> >> graphic, Rev is trying to select the group, but sees the 
> cantSelect 
> >> property and just decides to do nothing instead.
> >>
> >> Anyone know of a way to convince Rev to start the new 
> graphic rather 
> >> than just sit there when I try to draw with such a group 
> underneath?
> >>
> >> Rev 2.5, OS X.3.whatever, etc.
> >>
> >> Thank you!
> >>
> >>
> >> - ---
> >> Frank D. Engel, Jr.  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>
> >> $ ln -s /usr/share/kjvbible /usr/manual $ true | cat /usr/manual | 
> >> grep "John 3:16"
> >> John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his 
> only begotten 
> >> Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have 
> >> everlasting life.
> >> $
> >> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> >> Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)
> >>
> >> iD8DBQFCbSy67aqtWrR9cZoRAkqDAKCL1dtDU1J4ZY3lwBCiPsyboGJm0wCgg+KV
> >> Emd46eKmarOeRcn3rKrDEWk=
> >> =lzNq
> >> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> $0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer 10 
> >> Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more.
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> > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> > ht

Re: Draw over existing objects

[Frank D. Engel, Jr.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Maybe I'm just missing something here, but that stack doesn't seem 
relevant.

There is lots of code in there for a number of things, but I am looking 
for a way to, for example:

set the tool to "graphic"
set the style of the templateGraphic to "rectangle"
then let the user draw in a window whose entire visible area is covered 
by a group.  The tool seemingly ignores the fact that it is a "drawing" 
tool (rather than a "selection" tool) and tries to select the group 
rather than draw a new rectangle.

The group is not marked as opaque, currently has no objects within it 
(it is an empty group), is set to cantSelect, has both scrollbars, is 
visible, and covers all but a small part of the window, where I am 
dragging a palette along with the window (as a toolbar -- not a perfect 
solution, of course, but the best I've come up with so far given Rev's 
feature set in terms of the drawing tools).


On Apr 25, 2005, at 2:20 PM, MisterX wrote:
look at how ResizeN2O does it...
http://www.monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=78
Another example (but in browse mode) is how i make palettes 
draggeable...
just intercept (or pass) the mousedown except where you shouldn't (or
should)...

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com - TAOO - the rave in RAD
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Frank D. Engel, Jr.
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 19:45
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Draw over existing objects
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
I am trying to set up an environment where I can use the
standard drawing tools (graphic, field, pointer) and draw
over top of a group, so that I can catch the new objects and
add them to the group myself.
I set the cantSelect of the group, etc., and that stuff is
working okay; however, when I try to draw over the group,
nothing happens.
Apparently, Rev automatically tries to select an object when
you mouseDown on it in pointer mode, even when you are using
the graphic tool instead of the pointer tool.  Thus instead
of starting to draw a graphic, Rev is trying to select the
group, but sees the cantSelect property and just decides to
do nothing instead.
Anyone know of a way to convince Rev to start the new graphic
rather than just sit there when I try to draw with such a
group underneath?
Rev 2.5, OS X.3.whatever, etc.
Thank you!
- ---
Frank D. Engel, Jr.  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
$ ln -s /usr/share/kjvbible /usr/manual
$ true | cat /usr/manual | grep "John 3:16"
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only
begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not
perish, but have everlasting life.
$
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)
iD8DBQFCbSy67aqtWrR9cZoRAkqDAKCL1dtDU1J4ZY3lwBCiPsyboGJm0wCgg+KV
Emd46eKmarOeRcn3rKrDEWk=
=lzNq
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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- ---
Frank D. Engel, Jr.  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
$ ln -s /usr/share/kjvbible /usr/manual
$ true | cat /usr/manual | grep "John 3:16"
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten 
Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have 
everlasting life.
$
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)

iD8DBQFCbkZJ7aqtWrR9cZoRAnOkAJ4jDU5Z3gKfCSMdPxWUdkKFGGL6RQCbBUTM
p8l2ix39fxsJftvBUHjuomM=
=UCgw
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: Draw over existing objects

[Frank D. Engel, Jr.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Yes, I'm aware of both of those requests, and have commented on (and I 
think voted for) both of them a while back.  The first would be 
particularly nice for me, but in the meantime I'm trying to work around 
that limitation by doing this.  I guess this is a no-go then, too... 
:-(

On Apr 25, 2005, at 2:23 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
Frank D. Engel, Jr. wrote:
Anyone know of a way to convince Rev to start the new graphic rather 
than just sit there when I try to draw with such a group underneath?
Not reliably in all cases.
Anyone working on drawing apps may find these requests useful:


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 __
 Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev
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- ---
Frank D. Engel, Jr.  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
$ ln -s /usr/share/kjvbible /usr/manual
$ true | cat /usr/manual | grep "John 3:16"
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten 
Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have 
everlasting life.
$
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)

iD8DBQFCbV027aqtWrR9cZoRAva1AJwPpfftpWyFjeOBD1/es4idJzfXIACdFyPa
1Y7j2jyKMWxRzzh/5YwBeRg=
=arKN
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: Draw over existing objects

[Richard Gaskin]

Frank D. Engel, Jr. wrote:
Anyone know of a way to convince Rev to start the new graphic 
rather than just sit there when I try to draw with such a 
group underneath?
Not reliably in all cases.
Anyone working on drawing apps may find these requests useful:


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 __
 Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev
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RE: Draw over existing objects

[MisterX]

look at how ResizeN2O does it...

http://www.monsieurx.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=78

Another example (but in browse mode) is how i make palettes draggeable...
just intercept (or pass) the mousedown except where you shouldn't (or
should)...

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com - TAOO - the rave in RAD

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
> Frank D. Engel, Jr.
> Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 19:45
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Draw over existing objects
> 
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> I am trying to set up an environment where I can use the 
> standard drawing tools (graphic, field, pointer) and draw 
> over top of a group, so that I can catch the new objects and 
> add them to the group myself.  
> I set the cantSelect of the group, etc., and that stuff is 
> working okay; however, when I try to draw over the group, 
> nothing happens.
> 
> Apparently, Rev automatically tries to select an object when 
> you mouseDown on it in pointer mode, even when you are using 
> the graphic tool instead of the pointer tool.  Thus instead 
> of starting to draw a graphic, Rev is trying to select the 
> group, but sees the cantSelect property and just decides to 
> do nothing instead.
> 
> Anyone know of a way to convince Rev to start the new graphic 
> rather than just sit there when I try to draw with such a 
> group underneath?
> 
> Rev 2.5, OS X.3.whatever, etc.
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> 
> - ---
> Frank D. Engel, Jr.  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> $ ln -s /usr/share/kjvbible /usr/manual
> $ true | cat /usr/manual | grep "John 3:16"
> John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only 
> begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not 
> perish, but have everlasting life.
> $
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)
> 
> iD8DBQFCbSy67aqtWrR9cZoRAkqDAKCL1dtDU1J4ZY3lwBCiPsyboGJm0wCgg+KV
> Emd46eKmarOeRcn3rKrDEWk=
> =lzNq
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
> 
> 
> 
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Draw over existing objects

[Frank D. Engel, Jr.]

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I am trying to set up an environment where I can use the standard 
drawing tools (graphic, field, pointer) and draw over top of a group, 
so that I can catch the new objects and add them to the group myself.  
I set the cantSelect of the group, etc., and that stuff is working 
okay; however, when I try to draw over the group, nothing happens.

Apparently, Rev automatically tries to select an object when you 
mouseDown on it in pointer mode, even when you are using the graphic 
tool instead of the pointer tool.  Thus instead of starting to draw a 
graphic, Rev is trying to select the group, but sees the cantSelect 
property and just decides to do nothing instead.

Anyone know of a way to convince Rev to start the new graphic rather 
than just sit there when I try to draw with such a group underneath?

Rev 2.5, OS X.3.whatever, etc.
Thank you!
- ---
Frank D. Engel, Jr.  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
$ ln -s /usr/share/kjvbible /usr/manual
$ true | cat /usr/manual | grep "John 3:16"
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten 
Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have 
everlasting life.
$ 
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Emd46eKmarOeRcn3rKrDEWk=
=lzNq
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