Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibreOffice Still?

[Florian Reisinger]

Hi,

I do like "stable" and "old stable" - because that's the situation. (Was a 
suggestion from Debian) (deleted the rest)

Liebe Grüße, / Yours,
Florian Reisinger


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibreOffice Still?

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Yes, "Fresh" is stable but because it's had new features added we can
expect to find that some things that don't so well in "Fresh" and yet still
find that they work perfectly fine in "Still".

To many of us that all sounds like a lot of politicians, or marketing,
double-speak.

Obviously what normal users users think of as stable is different from what
devs think of.  To most of us "Stable" means that functionality that we
have grown used to still works just fine.  That is clearly different from
what the devs mean.


The recent Rtf question is a classic example.  The "Still" branch carries
on working with it just fine.  The "Fresh" branch seems to have a problem
with it.  To most of us that is an example of the "Fresh" branch being less
reliable, less stable, than the "Still" branch.

However the "Fresh" branch DOES have tons of advantages and i imagine that
many, many people would choose "Fresh" rather than "Still" in many, many
cases.  Just not to unsupported technophobes who are new to OpenSource.
Regards from
Tom :)



On 29 September 2014 19:29, Cor Nouws  wrote:

> Hi nn,
>
> alphacrash wrote on 29-09-14 04:01:
>
> > [...]
> > ...2.  Instead of trying to misdirect people to
> > the Unstable version, [...]
>
> I'm sorry to say, but you didn't inform yourself well enough before
> writing. As explained before - in this thread too - both Still and Fresh
> are stable.
>
> IMO all we can learn from this discussion is that better explanation at
> the website is a fair wish.
>
> If people here are able to write that, comprehensive though brief, and
> maybe also are skilled to help with the site itself: more then welcome.
>
> Kind regards,
> Cor
>
> --
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Re: [libreoffice-users] rtf files

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I am copying some of the message back to the mailing list in the hope that
someone can help with it.

I think the answer is to create columns by using the menus
Format - Columns

The buttons/icons tend to be just for the simplest case possible.
Regards from
Tom :)



On 29 September 2014 20:34, Carole Edwards Caruso 
wrote:

> Hi -
>
>  Tim and Jean's answers should help you revert to an earlier release of
>>
> > LibreOffice which doesn't have the problem.
>
> I will try this after I hear back from Jean.
>
>  Wrt the columns issue it's not clear to my exactly what you mean.
>> Surely it's just a;
>> Format - Cells - Alignment - Vertical alignment - Top of cells
>> I suspect i am missing the point or not understanding what you are
>> trying to do though.  Sorry! :(
>>
>
> All I want to do is write a text document in two parallel columns on the
> same page with space between the two columns. LibreOffice has this function
> even though they balance the columns by default, which is not what I want.
>
>  Sadly your email only came to me privately due to the stupid dumb way
>> the mailing lists are set-up and i suspect the same thing happened to
>> answers to Tim and Jean too.  Sorry about that!  You need to do "Reply
>> to all" and make sure the
>> Users@Global.LibreOffice.Org 
>> address is included in the "To" or "CC" field.
>>
>>
> Thank you for explaining this. I have copied it for future reference. I
> could not figure this out so just sent personal replies to your welcome
> emails.
>
> For now, I am back to using Lotus WordPro for rtf files. Walking on thin
> ice I know.
>
> I an anxious to hear what InDesign has to say about this.
>
> Thanks for your comments.
>
> Carole
>

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibreOffice Still?

[Paul]

I see this is still doing the rounds. And the parties are as far from
common ground as ever. Ah well...


On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 20:37:26 +0200
Cor Nouws  wrote:

> Hi Tom,
> 
> Tom Davies wrote on 29-09-14 19:31:
> 
> > That is the sort of argument MANY on this Mailing List agree with.
> > Please take it to the Discus Mailing List and maybe the social
> > networking channels if you really want to get heard but it's going
> > to make you unpopular.  
> 
> What you wrote here looks as nonsense to me, if alone due to the fact
> that the post you react on is ill-informed.

I don't see anything in Tom's reply that looks even vaguely like
nonsense. And I don't think the post is misinformed. I know it is
claimed that *both* branches are stable, but that is of course just as
inaccurate as saying that one is an unstable branch. The truth is that
both are in a pretty stable condition, but one is *more* stable but less
feature-full, and one is *less* stable and more feature-full, at least
if things are as intended. Not a problem, per se, but a problem when
not explained clearly. Many people, once finding out about the
difference, will just use the common terms, and their associated
meanings, of stable and testing, and be annoyed that they were
"tricked" into using testing. Unless people are *clearly* told what the
branches represent, and given a *choice*, LO will continually face
this problem.

In addition, from the "misinformed" post, this:

>  *make it easy for people to use both the unstable and
> the stable version AT THE SAME TIME*

Is another excellent suggestion (and could be expanded to include
making it *easy* to have many versions side by side), along with making
the website clearer about what the user is downloading and why, as was
my previous suggestion. Once again, I urge whomever is behind this
stuff to implement these changes, and I now think both these changes
are equally important.


> 
> > I am on fairly permanent moderation due to daring to say such
> > things.
> 
> Well, AFAIK it's because sometimes your 'mixed quality' writings are
> that much disturbing (misleading), 

"Mixed quality" writings? Now your reply is looking like nonsense.
Tom's material may not always be helpful in that it doesn't always have
answers to the asked question, but it is always friendly, and attempts
to be as helpful as he can be, even if it is just assuring the
questioner that someone has heard and can suggest nothing further than
the manuals. I don't really see a case for "writings of 'mixed
quality'".


> that the hope is that moderation
> will keep you a bit sharp - on the positive side. 

You mean to say his posts are being moderated? I always thought that
was just his persecution complex showing. Hearing that he may be right
does not me happy make. I see no reason in anything he has done since
I've been on this list to suggest he may need moderation. Of course,
maybe that's because his outrageous posts are all being discarded by
the moderators.


> It's not because
> you have or write ideas sometimes that may not be the same as 'people
> higher up'
> - whomever that may be at a given moment, and whether or not those
> share a same opinion.



> On the other hand: your positive tone and the wide range of topics
> that you tend to explain, are of course much appreciated.

While I decided to voice my opinion on what I felt were comments casting
Tom in an unfair light, I should also point out that I agree with the
above. To all who comment on this list, I think you're doing a great
job, this is one of the best lists I am or have been on, and even these
sorts of discussions are good in that at least everything is out in the
open and everybody can have their say.


Just my 0.02c


Paul


> 
> > Good luck and regards from
> 
> Yeah - thanks :)
> Kind regards,
> Cor
> 
> 


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibreOffice Still?

[Cor Nouws]

Tom Davies wrote on 29-09-14 20:55:

> To many of us that all sounds like a lot of politicians, or marketing,
> double-speak. 

Hence the sincere need to have it well and clearly visible explained.
Thanks a lot for your help,
Cor


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibreOffice Still?

[Cor Nouws]

Hi Tom,

Tom Davies wrote on 29-09-14 19:31:

> That is the sort of argument MANY on this Mailing List agree with.  Please
> take it to the Discus Mailing List and maybe the social networking channels
> if you really want to get heard but it's going to make you unpopular.  

What you wrote here looks as nonsense to me, if alone due to the fact
that the post you react on is ill-informed.

> I am on fairly permanent moderation due to daring to say such things.

Well, AFAIK it's because sometimes your 'mixed quality' writings are
that much disturbing (misleading), that the hope is that moderation will
keep you a bit sharp - on the positive side. It's not because you have
or write ideas sometimes that may not be the same as 'people higher up'
- whomever that may be at a given moment, and whether or not those share
a same opinion.
On the other hand: your positive tone and the wide range of topics that
you tend to explain, are of course much appreciated.

> Good luck and regards from

Yeah - thanks :)
Kind regards,
Cor


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibreOffice Still?

[Cor Nouws]

Hi nn,

alphacrash wrote on 29-09-14 04:01:

> [...]
> ...2.  Instead of trying to misdirect people to
> the Unstable version, [...]

I'm sorry to say, but you didn't inform yourself well enough before
writing. As explained before - in this thread too - both Still and Fresh
are stable.

IMO all we can learn from this discussion is that better explanation at
the website is a fair wish.

If people here are able to write that, comprehensive though brief, and
maybe also are skilled to help with the site itself: more then welcome.

Kind regards,
Cor

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LibreOffice Still?

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
That is the sort of argument MANY on this Mailing List agree with.  Please
take it to the Discus Mailing List and maybe the social networking channels
if you really want to get heard but it's going to make you unpopular.  I am
on fairly permanent moderation due to daring to say such things.
Good luck and regards from
Tom :)



On 29 September 2014 03:01, alphacrash  wrote:

> Florian Reisinger wrote
> > Hi,The problem we have: We do not have one release branch as Firefox has,
> > we have two... Users should use and find bugs on the "Fresh" version in
> > order to make thee fresh, which will be renamed to stable after 6M.So how
> > to say "you can use the feature packed fresh"? It is not an RC it is an
> > tested final releaseSo yes, we have a different model, so we need
> > different names then the standard :)
>
> Two suggestions:1.  Do not use misrepresentation through  soft or ambiguous
> language    in order to
> deliberately misdirect users to download the unstable branch.   This is NOT
> how to garner good will.  Use plain simple language like Debian's: Testing,
> Unstable, Stable, Old Stable.2.  Instead of trying to misdirect people to
> the Unstable version, *make it easy for people to use both the unstable and
> the stable version AT THE SAME TIME*.   Right now your Unstable base
> consists of two groups:  the Willing and those that have been Misled into
> using it.Normal end users might be willing to use the Unstable branch if
> they KNEW they could just click on the Stable branch icon and work in that
> if something crashed and they needed to get work done.   Read that:  time
> constraints.  Regards.
>
>
>
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[libreoffice-users] Re: LibreOffice Still?

[alphacrash]

Florian Reisinger wrote
> Hi,The problem we have: We do not have one release branch as Firefox has,
> we have two... Users should use and find bugs on the "Fresh" version in
> order to make thee fresh, which will be renamed to stable after 6M.So how
> to say "you can use the feature packed fresh"? It is not an RC it is an
> tested final releaseSo yes, we have a different model, so we need
> different names then the standard :)

Two suggestions:1.  Do not use misrepresentation through  soft or ambiguous
language    in order to
deliberately misdirect users to download the unstable branch.   This is NOT
how to garner good will.  Use plain simple language like Debian's: Testing,
Unstable, Stable, Old Stable.2.  Instead of trying to misdirect people to
the Unstable version, *make it easy for people to use both the unstable and
the stable version AT THE SAME TIME*.   Right now your Unstable base
consists of two groups:  the Willing and those that have been Misled into
using it.Normal end users might be willing to use the Unstable branch if
they KNEW they could just click on the Stable branch icon and work in that
if something crashed and they needed to get work done.   Read that:  time
constraints.  Regards.



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Re: [libreoffice-users] Connector and line connector in Impress

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
It's normally a good place to look for notes on new or improved
functionality but in this case i think it's lacking.  I'm surprised this
doesnt happen more often because LibreOffice develops so fast it's hard to
keep up.

Brian's emailed notes seem to be better.

Regards from
Tom :)


On 28 September 2014 21:14, Kolbjørn Stuestøl 
wrote:

> Den 28.09.2014 19:16, skreiv Tom Davies:
>
>> Hi :)
>> i couldn't find it in the release notes
>> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/4.3
>> but experimentation surely helps figure it out.
>> Regards from
>> Tom :)
>>
> Thank you. Yes I wil have a look on it.
> Kolbjoern
>
>
>>
>> On 27 September 2014 11:31, Brian Barker 
>> wrote:
>>
>>  At 22:53 25/09/2014 +0200, Kolbjørn Stuestøl wrote:
>>>
>>>  In Impress I can connect two objects with "connectors". This is lines
 which follows the figures when moving them in opposite to ordinary
 lines.
 But there are also "line connectors". I am not able to find any
 difference
 between these two connectors. Are they different? If they are, in what
 way?

  Surely you can see what sort of thing happens simply by trying out the
>>> various forms and dragging the connected items around? The standard
>>> connector appears to use only horizontal and vertical element, whereas
>>> the
>>> line connector allows diagonal elements.
>>>
>>>   In my version of LibreOffice, 4.3, only the "connectors" shows up in
>>> the
>>>
 drop down menu, not the "line connectors". I found the "line
 connectors" in
 the Impress guide (4.2) and in the UI 4.3 text files (UI.po).

  o Click the down-arrow next to the Connector icon in the Drawing
>>> toolbar
>>> to bring up the Connectors toolbar.
>>> o Drag the toolbar off its parent using the bar at its base.
>>> o Click the down-arrow in the Connectors toolbar and use Visible Buttons
>>> >
>>> or Customise Toolbar... to vary the options shown. Note that Straight and
>>> Curved Connectors are also available.
>>>
>>> Alternatively, right-click an existing connector and go to Connector... .
>>> You can change the type there, as well as making detailed modifications.
>>>
>>> I trust this helps.
>>>
>>> Brian Barker
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-users] Fatal Error on Install of LibreOffice 4.3

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
First try renaming the User Profile
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/UserProfile

I take it that you are on WIndows?  Xp or WIn7?
Regards from
Tom :)


On 29 September 2014 12:17, Martin White 
wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> I have just tried to install LibreOffice 4.3 from your website and when I
> run it the message -:
>
> *Fatal Error ... LibreOffice 4.3 Cannot be Started, Extension Manager:
> exception in synchronise*
>
> is displayed in a window box, and LibreOffice does not load up.
>
> Can you help please ?
>
> Regards ... Martin
>
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Re: [libreoffice-users] Fatal Error on Install of LibreOffice 4.3

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Errr, when it says "Fatal" it's only the LibreOffice program that is
affected isn't it?  You are not getting sent ot a blue-screen are you?
Regards from
Tom :)

On 29 September 2014 12:36, Tom Davies  wrote:

> Hi :)
> First try renaming the User Profile
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/UserProfile
>
> I take it that you are on WIndows?  Xp or WIn7?
> Regards from
> Tom :)
>
>
> On 29 September 2014 12:17, Martin White 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi there,
>>
>> I have just tried to install LibreOffice 4.3 from your website and when I
>> run it the message -:
>>
>> *Fatal Error ... LibreOffice 4.3 Cannot be Started, Extension Manager:
>> exception in synchronise*
>>
>> is displayed in a window box, and LibreOffice does not load up.
>>
>> Can you help please ?
>>
>> Regards ... Martin
>>
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Re: [libreoffice-users] Fatal Error on Install of LibreOffice 4.3

[Stephan Bergmann]

On 09/29/2014 01:44 PM, Stephan Bergmann wrote:

On 09/29/2014 01:17 PM, Martin White wrote:

I have just tried to install LibreOffice 4.3 from your website and when I
run it the message -:

*Fatal Error ... LibreOffice 4.3 Cannot be Started, Extension Manager:
exception in synchronise*

is displayed in a window box, and LibreOffice does not load up.


What platform?  Windows?

Can you send me a zip of your user profile (see
)?  I might be able to
reproduce it with that.


Ah, right, if it is the SSE2 problem as Brian points out (I hadn't been 
aware that that problem would first manifests with such an error 
message), it doesn't help to send me your user profile.


Stephan


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Fatal Error on Install of LibreOffice 4.3

[Brian Barker]

At 12:17 29/09/2014 +0100, Martin White wrote:

I have just tried to install LibreOffice 4.3 from your website ...


It's not "our" web site, in fact: members of this mailing list are 
generally other users - just like you.


... and when I run it the message -: *Fatal Error ... LibreOffice 
4.3 Cannot be Started, Extension Manager: exception in synchronise* 
is displayed in a window box, and LibreOffice does not load up. Can 
you help please ?


This has been reported by others; see, for example:
https://www.libreoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=83913
https://www.libreoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=83886
https://www.libreoffice.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=83277

One suggestion is that the problem occurs with processors which do 
not support SSE2 instructions. Wikipedia tells me these were 
introduced in the Pentium 4 in 2001. Is your hardware too old?


I trust this helps.

Brian Barker


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Fatal Error on Install of LibreOffice 4.3

[Stephan Bergmann]

On 09/29/2014 01:17 PM, Martin White wrote:

I have just tried to install LibreOffice 4.3 from your website and when I
run it the message -:

*Fatal Error ... LibreOffice 4.3 Cannot be Started, Extension Manager:
exception in synchronise*

is displayed in a window box, and LibreOffice does not load up.


What platform?  Windows?

Can you send me a zip of your user profile (see 
)?  I might be able to 
reproduce it with that.


Stephan

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Fatal Error on Install of LibreOffice 4.3

[Gordon Burgess-Parker]

On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 12:17:58 +0100
Martin White  wrote:

> Hi there,
> 
> I have just tried to install LibreOffice 4.3 from your website and when I
> run it the message -:
> 
> *Fatal Error ... LibreOffice 4.3 Cannot be Started, Extension Manager:
> exception in synchronise*
> 
> is displayed in a window box, and LibreOffice does not load up.
> 
> Can you help please ?
> 
> Regards ... Martin
> 

Windows, Linux or some other?
Did you check the downloaded install file with MD5 sum?

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Re: [libreoffice-users] bug segnaled in 4.3

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
On Ubuntu 12.04 with LibreOffice 3.5.7 i didn't even have a "sort" option
in my right-click menu.  I tried with and without LibreOffice dialogues.
Still not there!

The "Sort A-Z" button on the icon-bar and the menu option did both work but
i can't test the right-click option because it's not there!! :(  Admittedly
i might have done something dumb to break it or hide it but i'm fairly sure
i haven't.
Regards from
Tom :)



On 28 September 2014 12:20, Ian Whitfield  wrote:

>
> On 09/28/2014 11:53 AM, Paolo Debortoli wrote:
>
>> a debian user has written on a mailing list that differently from version
>> 4.2, in the last 4.3.2.1 version the ordering function (right click ->
>> sort) in calc is not working yet (I haven't verified it by myself at the
>> moment actually).
>>
>
> It works fine in 4.3.2.2 on PClinuxOS.
>
> IanW
> Pretoria RSA
>
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[libreoffice-users] Fatal Error on Install of LibreOffice 4.3

[Martin White]

Hi there,

I have just tried to install LibreOffice 4.3 from your website and when I
run it the message -:

*Fatal Error ... LibreOffice 4.3 Cannot be Started, Extension Manager:
exception in synchronise*

is displayed in a window box, and LibreOffice does not load up.

Can you help please ?

Regards ... Martin

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Re: [libreoffice-users] rtf files

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Rtf is an old proprietary format that is no longer being developed by
Microsoft.

It might be worth writing to the InDesign people to see if they can start
supporting ODF.  ODF, is the only ISO format that is implemented
consistently as specified in the ISO specifications.  As such it is
increasingly being used by governments, large organisations and many other
people too in order to ensure cross-platform and future-proof
compatibility.

Frankly it's a bit shocking to hear they don't support ODF already!  I
would tend to start thinking about other tools if they are already falling
behind like that.
Regards from
Tom :)


On 29 September 2014 07:02, Jean-Francois Nifenecker <
jean-francois.nifenec...@laposte.net> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Le 29/09/2014 04:26, Tim Lloyd a écrit :
> >
> > FYI I removed 4.3 and installed 4.1. The problem is not apparent with
> > the older version. I have some old versions stored away so I can drill
> > down and find when exactly this problem occurs and report to the
> > bugzilla (I can't see anything obvious there).
> >
> > Let me know if we are on the same page.
> >
>
> FYI, the older versions are available here:
> http://downloadarchive.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice/old/
>
> --
> Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux
>
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[libreoffice-users] [Solved] Re: [libreoffice-documentation] Re: Base Document - Forms

[Tom]

Hi :)  
Many thanks to Walther Koehler-4 and Paul-6! :))  Peter Goggin has been able
to do the transfer.  So i have copied all the answers in below to try to
help make this easier to solve next time.  
Many thanks and regards to all! :)
Regards from 
Tom :)  



Peter Goggin wrote
> I finally solved how to transfer the data from Access to Base. The steps 
> are very simple and work well. During the creation stage I did not 
> realize that while the Create button was available there was a Next 
> stage also available where the data types of the newly crated table 
> fields can be modified. (May be the Create button should not be 
> available until the data types have been checked) Setting the date 
> fields to date and the other fields to correct types solved the 
> problems. Since my "ACCESS" data base allows me to fully check the forms 
> documentation I will continue using this in parallel with the proper 
> sample data bases.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Peter Goggin



Walther Koehler-4 wrote
> Hi,
> 
> export tables from MSACCESS as dbase  files in a proprietary directory. 
> Connect to that directory from LO-base. 
> 
> Yours
> 
> Walther
> 





Paul-6 wrote
> I've got some experience with various databases, but little with
> Access, sorry.
> 
> Given the OP exported the data from Access once, I'd assume that it's
> possible to export to csv format instead of Excel spreadsheets, and I'd
> recommend that. Then importing into Base should be straightforward, and
> formatting shouldn't be lost. Access might even give some options for
> the export formats, but worst case the data can be massaged in Calc
> before importing into Base, say to change the date format.
> 
> If the OP is still having trouble with this, he can try posting a
> couple of lines of the exported csv file, and we can see if there is a
> reason Base is not importing it correctly.
> 
> This does sound like it should be possible with the method he is using,
> but it's much harder for me to debug. If he's using plain csv files,
> just posting a couple of lines would give me an idea of how the data
> looks, and I could test on my machine, which does have Base, but not
> Access.
> 
> And if he wants to go to MySQL/MariaDB/PostgreSQL, again using csv
> files should be pretty straightforward, even if it does mean command
> line and queries, and not a GUI interface. Although those exist, I'm
> just not as familiar with them.
> 
> Paul
> 
> 





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Re: [libreoffice-users] "Properties" Toolbar?

[Sophie]

Hi,
Le 25/09/2014 20:17, lo-u...@jevb.tuffmail.com a écrit :
> I would tend to agree with Mark. If it's called "Properties", why is it
> called "Sidebar" in the View menu? I think it should be called
> "Properties" in the menu too.

In fact it's not call Properties, it opens on Properties by default but
you have icons on the top right side of the bar where you can switch to
Styles, Gallery or Navigator. In the next versions, the Sidebar will be
visible by default on Writer, for the moment it's true only for Impress.
Kind regards
Sophie
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