Re: [SOGo] META: Mailing list configuration change

2016-03-28 Thread "Luca Olivetti" 

On dilluns 28 marc 2016 03:40 CEST, "Patrice Levesque" (pleves...@inverse.ca) 
 wrote:

> I guess most mailing lists will proceed as Sympa does, by adding a
> “X-Original-From” header.  It wouldn't be *that* hard for MUA to adjust
> to this, and still offer users the possibility to reply to the original
> poster.  Then again, I'm not holding my breath; how many years since the
> adoption of standard mailing-list headers for subscription management,
> and how many mail clients support it? :)

It seem that SOGo doesn't, at least I didn't see any button or right click menu 
regarding mailing list management while viewing this message, not even a "Reply 
to list" option (which I see in Thunderbird).
I didn't see a "Reply to X-Original-From" button either ;-)

Bye
--
Luca Olivetti
Wetron Automatización S.A. http://www.wetron.es/
Tel. +34 93 5883004 (Ext.133)  Fax +34 93 5883007



-- 
users@sogo.nu
https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists

Re: [SOGo] META: Mailing list configuration change

2016-03-28 Thread DJ Lucas 



On 03/24/2016 03:19 PM, Patrice Levesque (pleves...@inverse.ca) wrote:


Hi,

You may be aware of modern spam protection mechanisms like SPF, DKIM
and DMARC.

In order to comply with those mechanisms, this mailing list is now
replacing the “From:” header with its own address; you may have
noticed the change earlier today.

As far as I know, this should not create serious issues for
subscribers — don't hesitate to report though if this assumption
turns out to be false.


Thanks for your understanding,



Thanks for posting about this change. It has prompted a discussion 
elsewhere on the same topic. With your solution, I like how the From 
header contains the original sender's email address in parenthesis, 
however, not sure if this is obfuscated in the list archives. I am 
curious how this was achieved.


Unfortunately, the way it is setup now also makes it difficult to reply 
directly to a sender, useful for off-topic messages that shouldn't get a 
response on list but for which somebody can still offer assistance. Any 
particular reason not to set a Reply-To with both sender and list 
address? This is how mailman's "from_is_list" option works, which was 
added specifically for working around DMARC.


--DJ

--
users@sogo.nu
https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists

Re: [SOGo] META: Mailing list configuration change

2016-03-27 Thread Patrice Levesque 

>> You may be aware of modern spam protection mechanisms like SPF, DKIM
>> and DMARC.
> Yes and they are broken by design because they cause problems for
> mailing lists and they do not test whether a message is spam.

No silver bullet exists AFAIK that deals with all e-mail problems.  At
least, these try to address the e-mail forgeries that plague e-mail
systems, and in some way, make phishing easier when aimed at
non-technical users; especially nowadays when spammers steal
addressbooks and make it appear that mail comes from a contact.


> Is it not serious that it's no longer possible to sort list emails by
> sender, or to use the "Reply To Author" commands/buttons in email
> clients to reply to the author?

You've noticed the textual part from the “From:” header still points to
the username; your mail client should be able to sort properly.

I guess most mailing lists will proceed as Sympa does, by adding a
“X-Original-From” header.  It wouldn't be *that* hard for MUA to adjust
to this, and still offer users the possibility to reply to the original
poster.  Then again, I'm not holding my breath; how many years since the
adoption of standard mailing-list headers for subscription management,
and how many mail clients support it? :)



-- 
Patrice Levesque
pleves...@inverse.ca  ::  +1.514.447.4918 *140  ::  http://inverse.ca
Inverse inc. :: Leaders behind SOGo (http://sogo.nu) and PacketFence 
(http://packetfence.org)



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Re: [SOGo] META: Mailing list configuration change

2016-03-27 Thread "Chris" 
DJ Lucas wrote:
>
>
> I haven't found anything from Google directly, but here...
>
> https://dmarc.org/2015/10/global-mailbox-providers-deploying-dmarc-to-protect-users/

Thank you. If I got this right, @gmail.com mails have to be signed and
can't be faked by someone else. For the moment I'm not required to sign my
own mails (although they maybe get higher spam score then).

- Chris

-- 
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https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists

Re: [SOGo] META: Mailing list configuration change

2016-03-27 Thread DJ Lucas 



On 03/27/2016 11:48 AM, "Chris" (chris2...@postbox.xyz) wrote:

Francis,

Francis Lachapelle wrote:

Yahoo has already adopted a strict DMARC policy and Google has announced
to do the same in June 2016. We chose to *not* penalize our list
subscribers hosting their mailbox on those systems.


that's interesting. Do you have a reference to the new Google DMARC
policy? I've only found some notes concerning Google Apps.

- Chris



I haven't found anything from Google directly, but here...

https://dmarc.org/2015/10/global-mailbox-providers-deploying-dmarc-to-protect-users/

--DJ

--
users@sogo.nu
https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists

Re: [SOGo] META: Mailing list configuration change

2016-03-27 Thread "Chris" 
Francis,

Francis Lachapelle wrote:
> Yahoo has already adopted a strict DMARC policy and Google has announced
> to do the same in June 2016. We chose to *not* penalize our list
> subscribers hosting their mailbox on those systems.

that's interesting. Do you have a reference to the new Google DMARC
policy? I've only found some notes concerning Google Apps.

- Chris

-- 
users@sogo.nu
https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists

Re: [SOGo] META: Mailing list configuration change

2016-03-26 Thread Francis Lachapelle 
> On Mar 26, 2016, at 2:39 PM, MJ Ray (m...@phonecoop.coop)  
> wrote:
> 
> Patrice Levesque (pleves...@inverse.ca) wrote:
>>  You may be aware of modern spam protection mechanisms like SPF, DKIM
>>  and DMARC.
> 
> Yes and they are broken by design because they cause problems for
> mailing lists and they do not test whether a message is spam.
> 
>>  In order to comply with those mechanisms, this mailing list is now
>>  replacing the “From:” header with its own address; you may have
>>  noticed the change earlier today.
>> 
>>  As far as I know, this should not create serious issues for
>>  subscribers — don't hesitate to report though if this assumption
>>  turns out to be false.
> 
> Is it not serious that it's no longer possible to sort list emails by
> sender, or to use the "Reply To Author" commands/buttons in email
> clients to reply to the author?
> 
> This seems like a high cost of pandering to poor postmasters.  I await
> for the first incorrectly-published-to-list private email with interest. ☹

Yahoo has already adopted a strict DMARC policy and Google has announced to do 
the same in June 2016. We chose to *not* penalize our list subscribers hosting 
their mailbox on those systems.

Francis
-- 
users@sogo.nu
https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists

Re: [SOGo] META: Mailing list configuration change

2016-03-26 Thread MJ Ray 
Patrice Levesque (pleves...@inverse.ca) wrote:
>   You may be aware of modern spam protection mechanisms like SPF, DKIM
>   and DMARC.

Yes and they are broken by design because they cause problems for
mailing lists and they do not test whether a message is spam.

>   In order to comply with those mechanisms, this mailing list is now
>   replacing the “From:” header with its own address; you may have
>   noticed the change earlier today.
> 
>   As far as I know, this should not create serious issues for
>   subscribers — don't hesitate to report though if this assumption
>   turns out to be false.

Is it not serious that it's no longer possible to sort list emails by
sender, or to use the "Reply To Author" commands/buttons in email
clients to reply to the author?

This seems like a high cost of pandering to poor postmasters.  I await
for the first incorrectly-published-to-list private email with interest. ☹

Hope that explains,
-- 
MJ Ray (slef), member of www.software.coop, a for-more-than-profit co-op
http://koha-community.org supporter, web and library systems developer.
In My Opinion Only: see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html
Available for hire (including development) at http://www.software.coop/
-- 
users@sogo.nu
https://inverse.ca/sogo/lists

[SOGo] META: Mailing list configuration change

2016-03-24 Thread Patrice Levesque 

Hi,

You may be aware of modern spam protection mechanisms like SPF, DKIM
and DMARC.

In order to comply with those mechanisms, this mailing list is now
replacing the “From:” header with its own address; you may have
noticed the change earlier today.

As far as I know, this should not create serious issues for
subscribers — don't hesitate to report though if this assumption
turns out to be false.


Thanks for your understanding,



-- 
Patrice Levesque
pleves...@inverse.ca  ::  +1.514.447.4918 *140  ::  http://inverse.ca
Inverse inc. :: Leaders behind SOGo (http://sogo.nu) and PacketFence 
(http://packetfence.org)



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