Re: [Vo]:Rossi catalyst-fuel speculation

[Eric Walker]

On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 11:03 AM, Bastiaan Bergman <
bastiaan.berg...@gmail.com> wrote:

In addition to
> oxidation/reduction/melting cycles I believe carbon may play a role as
> it is active in oxidation and reduction reactions and reported to work
> in other LENR experiments (Lesley Case). K2CO3 is also repeatedly
> reported to be of influence in LENR reports.
>

It's exciting to see the number of knowledgeable experimenters here.

It seems like the parameter space is large for LENR.  If I had the
aptitude, time and resources, I would want to proceed very systematically.
 Otherwise it's easy to imagine ending up wandering through the woods for a
long time without getting anywhere.  I would probably try to begin with a
replication -- any replication -- and use that to assure myself that my lab
setup works and that I can clearly and reliably distinguish a blank from a
positive result.  One simple experiment that has been replicated with
success by Michael McKubre at SRI is of Les Case's design (mentioned
above). See:

http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/CaseLCcatalyticf.pdf

If I ever got to the point where I could distinguish a positive result from
a negative one, and determine that the positive result was above error, I
would come up with a protocol -- a set of numbers to carefully keep track
of and a set of steps to follow, and so on.  I would repeat the protocol
enough times to start hating LENR and keep all of the details for both the
good and bad runs in a notebook or a spreadsheet.  I would not try to do
anything fancy -- just find some result above error, and then proceed from
there.

Once I had a good set of data for that particular protocol, I would make a
small change.  Perhaps replace the palladium with nickel, or change the
quantity of the palladium or the temperature of the setup.  I would only
modify one dimension per set of runs, in order to keep careful track of
what it is that is influencing the experiment.

For the Les Case experiment, I think a good calorimeter, a Geiger-Muller
counter, a way to detect x-rays and a way to measure the volume of helium
would be good to have.  A way to analyze the substrate for transmutations
afterwards would be nice as well. I'm sure there are many other things you
would want, but these seem like valuable observables for many possible
experiments.  It would be helpful to try to get measurements of heat and
x-rays and any other quantities as the experiment proceeds, so that
correlations can be sought out afterwards.

A large set of quality data along these lines, made available to the public
in raw, undigested form, following well-defined protocols and including
information about the statistical error would be invaluable.

Eric

RE: [Vo]:Rossi catalyst-fuel speculation

[Jones Beene]

This paper is deceiving . especially if one is interested in "nano Ni-H".
and it is not in any relevant way comparable to Rossi. There is NO
indication of excess heat, even though they use very heavy deuterium
enrichment, which probably supplies all of the radiation seen, and even then
it is not much in absolute terms. 

 

One can see higher radiation count rates from a natural gas fired furnace. I
would classify this as almost a joke. There are much better results from
Pd-D papers 20 years ago.

 

 

From: ecat builder 

 

This is a Russian Rossi replication using LaNi5 that is generating bursts of
X-rays and neutrons. They (Bazhutov and Izmiran http://fireball.izmiran.ru/
) are looking at the Erzion model of cold nuclear transmutation...

"Investigation   of
Thermodynamic and Radiation Effects at Loading Intermetallic LaNi5 by
hydrogen" -- http://www.iscmns.org/work10/ParkhomovAregistrati.ppt

Anyone have more news on these guys? They did a workshop at the Kurchatov
Institute last month, but I didn't see a writeup. 

- Brad

Re: [Vo]:Rossi catalyst-fuel speculation

[Axil Axil]

 Lanthanum has a low work function which can be lowered even further if
oxygen is added. Lanthanum oxide is now used in welding rods to replace
thorium because of its low work function(2.5 eV). The powder used in this
experiment may be contaminated with oxygen. This might indicate that low
work function is a factor in nickel based LENR.

Cheers:   Axil


On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 2:59 PM, ecat builder  wrote:

> This is a Russian Rossi replication using LaNi5 that is generating bursts
> of X-rays and neutrons. They (Bazhutov and Izmiran
> http://fireball.izmiran.ru/ ) are looking at the Erzion model of cold
> nuclear transmutation...
>
> "Investigation of Thermodynamic and Radiation Effects at Loading
> Intermetallic LaNi5 by 
> hydrogen"
> -- http://www.iscmns.org/work10/ParkhomovAregistrati.ppt
>
> Anyone have more news on these guys? They did a workshop at the Kurchatov
> Institute last month, but I didn't see a writeup.
>
> - Brad
>

Re: [Vo]:Rossi catalyst-fuel speculation

[ecat builder]

This is a Russian Rossi replication using LaNi5 that is generating bursts
of X-rays and neutrons. They (Bazhutov and Izmiran
http://fireball.izmiran.ru/ ) are looking at the Erzion model of cold
nuclear transmutation...

"Investigation of Thermodynamic and Radiation Effects at Loading
Intermetallic LaNi5 by
hydrogen"
-- http://www.iscmns.org/work10/ParkhomovAregistrati.ppt

Anyone have more news on these guys? They did a workshop at the Kurchatov
Institute last month, but I didn't see a writeup.

- Brad

Re: [Vo]:Rossi catalyst-fuel speculation

[Axil Axil]

http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/04/english-translation-of-build-instructions-for-pirelli-athanor-cell/



I would forget about Rossi because there are too many unknowns. I would
start with the Pirelli High school reactor because it is open source,
completely documented and produces a COP of 4.



But I would modify it to put in the things I love most: high voltage,
liquid metal, fountain reactors and of course, tungsten. If you can’t have
some fun then what is the use of trying.



Mix tungsten powder in with the lithium to make a paste, form two liquid
cylindrical flowing liquid columns about 3 cm in diameter and 10 cm apart
using a pump. Connect the liquid columns to a 50,000 volt DC source.  Covered
all by a high pressure hydrogen envelop and make one the anode and the
other column, the cathode. Now pass a 50,000 dc voltage pulse of 1
microsecond duration between the two columns at a duty cycle of 1 %.



In principle, this is what Robert Godes founder of Brillouin Energy is
doing except he uses solid wires. Godes is concerned about burning up his
thin wires with high electrical pulse power but when we use liquid wires,
they won’t burn out no matter how much pulse power we hit those liquid
wires with.


In addition at no extra cost and effort, we add some LeClair cavitation in
for good measure.


The spark will cause cavitation on the surface of the liquid wires.

Check for excess heat.  Then in the next experiment: add fine carbon
powder. Next experiment: Replace carbon powder with fine Calcium oxide
powder. Next: try K2CO3 and so on.


Cheers:   Axil


On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 1:22 PM, Bob Higgins wrote:

> Since Rossi’s public display of his reactor and subsequent discussions of
> his technology, I have been anxious to reproduce his results – primarily
> just to know that it is a real phenomenon.  I listen to the excellent
> exchanges on Vortex and have learned much from the posts here.  As I
> continue down the path of trying to understand what Rossi, and potentially
> DGT have done, several people have asked me what I believe to be the
> catalyst-fuel that is used in Rossi’s and DGT reactors.  To further
> stimulate open thought and development of a Rossi/DGT reproduction, I would
> like to share my thoughts on the catalyst fuel with Vortex and ask for your
> constructive feedback.  Further, if you should try this and find excess
> heat, in the same spirit, please share your results with the rest of us.
>
>
>
> Some of this is re-hash of what has been previously posted on Vortex and
> some is my speculation of what Rossi has done.  Just to be clear – I am
> speculating about Mr. Rossi’s invention and I salute his ingenuity and
> engineering.
>
>
>
> Clearly the bulk of the material is a NICKEL powder.  I hear some
> speculations that the catalyst-fuel may be nickel nanopower – I believe
> this is clearly not Rossi’s catalyst-fuel.  Rossi has said that the
> nickel powder has micro-dimensions, not nano-dimensions.  Rossi says that
> Raney nickel (high surface area sponge nickel) will not work.  I observe
> that the most likely powder for this application is a nickel powder
> produced by the reduction of nickel carbonyl (a common process for
> producing high activity nickel powder).  This produces flower-like buds
> of roughly spherical diameter in the 3-10 micron range with “petals” in the
> 100 nanometer thickness range.  This nickel powder has very high EXTERNAL
> surface area (as opposed to Raney nickel which has much of its area inside
> its sponge-like interior).  Why the external surface area is important
> will become clear in a moment.  Examples of this type of carbonyl nickel
> powder are Hunter Chemical’s AH50 (
> http://www.hunterchem.com/nickel-powder-carbonyl-process-hydrogen-reduced.html)
>  or Vale T255 (
> http://www.vale.com/en-us/o-que-fazemos/mineracao/niquel/produtos/Documents/Nickel%20powders/T255-nickel-powder.pdf).
> I believe this type of nickel powder is the starting point.
>
>
>
> Rossi also talks of catalyst additives to the nickel powder.  These are
> widely believed to be a nanopowder additive, but what nanopowder?  Rossi
> states that the catalyst he used is inexpensive.  One of the things found
> by examination of available nanopowders is that metal oxide nanopowders are
> far less expensive than pure elemental nanopowders.  They are also far
> easier and safer to handle and to mix.  Another clue is that partially
> oxidized (partly reduced) metal oxide nanopowders are good catalysts and
> will break the H2 molecules into monatomic hydrogen.  However, the mean
> free path of an H1 atom, before recombining to form an H2, is very short.
> This means that the catalyst should be in direct contact with the nickel.
> I believe that the catalyst is a simple metal oxide nanopowder that is
> finely dispersed across the “petals” of the nickel micro-powder “buds” and
> subsequently thermo-chemically treated.
>
>
>
> I will go out on a limb and say that I believe the starting point 

Re: [Vo]:Rossi catalyst-fuel speculation

[Bastiaan Bergman]

Bob,

Thanks for sharing. As you know, but other vortexers might not know, I
am following roughly the same path. See also fusioncatalyst.org, if
you like to join this crowd science approach. In addition to
oxidation/reduction/melting cycles I believe carbon may play a role as
it is active in oxidation and reduction reactions and reported to work
in other LENR experiments (Lesley Case). K2CO3 is also repeatedly
reported to be of influence in LENR reports.

Elements that are known catalyst in chemistry and hydrogenation
reactions are Pt, Pd, Rh, Ru and Ni. Note that catalyzation in
chemistry is poorly understood at the microscopic level, possibly
similar process play a role in catalyzation as in LENR. Interesting in
this regard is "hydrogen embrittlement", the effect that some
stainless steels, especially Ni rich ones, sometimes fail to contain
high pressure hydrogen. An unsolved mystery in 'normal' science.

Cheers,
Bastiaan.
www.FusionCatalyst.org


On 7/17/12, Jojo Jaro  wrote:
> Thanks for sharing your process.  Interesting.
>
> What is your proposed mechanism for the actual fusion?  Do you have a
> hypothesis?
>
> I have done a similar process, but different, with no positive news to
> report.  The process I have tried involved the Mircrowave Sintering of
> Nickel and Copper nanopowders in open air to result in oxidation which was
> then heated in an H2 atmosphere to reduce the oxides.  But frankly, I have
> not been able to develop this process further as I had to postpone my
> experiments due to other considerations.  When I get back, I will dedicate
> more time and effort into Carbon nanostructures than this path.  It seems
> Carbon nanostructures are more promising NAEs.
>
> But, you might be on to something here.
>
>
> Jojo
>
>
>   - Original Message -
>   From: Bob Higgins
>   To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
>   Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 1:22 AM
>   Subject: [Vo]:Rossi catalyst-fuel speculation
>
>
>   Since Rossi’s public display of his reactor and subsequent discussions of
> his technology, I have been anxious to reproduce his results – primarily
> just to know that it is a real phenomenon.  I listen to the excellent
> exchanges on Vortex and have learned much from the posts here.  As I
> continue down the path of trying to understand what Rossi, and potentially
> DGT have done, several people have asked me what I believe to be the
> catalyst-fuel that is used in Rossi’s and DGT reactors.  To further
> stimulate open thought and development of a Rossi/DGT reproduction, I would
> like to share my thoughts on the catalyst fuel with Vortex and ask for your
> constructive feedback.  Further, if you should try this and find excess
> heat, in the same spirit, please share your results with the rest of us.
>
>
>
>   Some of this is re-hash of what has been previously posted on Vortex and
> some is my speculation of what Rossi has done.  Just to be clear – I am
> speculating about Mr. Rossi’s invention and I salute his ingenuity and
> engineering.
>
>
>
>   Clearly the bulk of the material is a NICKEL powder.  I hear some
> speculations that the catalyst-fuel may be nickel nanopower – I believe this
> is clearly not Rossi’s catalyst-fuel.  Rossi has said that the nickel powder
> has micro-dimensions, not nano-dimensions.  Rossi says that Raney nickel
> (high surface area sponge nickel) will not work.  I observe that the most
> likely powder for this application is a nickel powder produced by the
> reduction of nickel carbonyl (a common process for producing high activity
> nickel powder).  This produces flower-like buds of roughly spherical
> diameter in the 3-10 micron range with “petals” in the 100 nanometer
> thickness range.  This nickel powder has very high EXTERNAL surface area (as
> opposed to Raney nickel which has much of its area inside its sponge-like
> interior).  Why the external surface area is important will become clear in
> a moment.  Examples of this type of carbonyl nickel powder are Hunter
> Chemical’s AH50
> (http://www.hunterchem.com/nickel-powder-carbonyl-process-hydrogen-reduced.html
> ) or Vale T255
> (http://www.vale.com/en-us/o-que-fazemos/mineracao/niquel/produtos/Documents/Nickel%20powders/T255-nickel-powder.pdf
> ).  I believe this type of nickel powder is the starting point.
>
>
>
>   Rossi also talks of catalyst additives to the nickel powder.  These are
> widely believed to be a nanopowder additive, but what nanopowder?  Rossi
> states that the catalyst he used is inexpensive.  One of the things found by
> examination of available nanopowders is that metal oxide nanopowders are far
> less expensive than pure elemental nanopowders.  They are also far easier
> and safer to handle and to mix.  Another clue is that partially oxidized
> (partly reduced) metal oxide nanopowders are good catalysts and will break
> the H2 molecules into monatomic hydrogen.  However, the mean free path of an
> H1 atom, before recombining to form an H2, is very short.  This means that
> the c

Re: [Vo]:Rossi catalyst-fuel speculation

[Jojo Jaro]

Thanks for sharing your process.  Interesting.

What is your proposed mechanism for the actual fusion?  Do you have a 
hypothesis?

I have done a similar process, but different, with no positive news to report.  
The process I have tried involved the Mircrowave Sintering of Nickel and Copper 
nanopowders in open air to result in oxidation which was then heated in an H2 
atmosphere to reduce the oxides.  But frankly, I have not been able to develop 
this process further as I had to postpone my experiments due to other 
considerations.  When I get back, I will dedicate more time and effort into 
Carbon nanostructures than this path.  It seems Carbon nanostructures are more 
promising NAEs.

But, you might be on to something here.


Jojo


  - Original Message - 
  From: Bob Higgins 
  To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 1:22 AM
  Subject: [Vo]:Rossi catalyst-fuel speculation


  Since Rossi’s public display of his reactor and subsequent discussions of his 
technology, I have been anxious to reproduce his results – primarily just to 
know that it is a real phenomenon.  I listen to the excellent exchanges on 
Vortex and have learned much from the posts here.  As I continue down the path 
of trying to understand what Rossi, and potentially DGT have done, several 
people have asked me what I believe to be the catalyst-fuel that is used in 
Rossi’s and DGT reactors.  To further stimulate open thought and development of 
a Rossi/DGT reproduction, I would like to share my thoughts on the catalyst 
fuel with Vortex and ask for your constructive feedback.  Further, if you 
should try this and find excess heat, in the same spirit, please share your 
results with the rest of us.  



  Some of this is re-hash of what has been previously posted on Vortex and some 
is my speculation of what Rossi has done.  Just to be clear – I am speculating 
about Mr. Rossi’s invention and I salute his ingenuity and engineering.



  Clearly the bulk of the material is a NICKEL powder.  I hear some 
speculations that the catalyst-fuel may be nickel nanopower – I believe this is 
clearly not Rossi’s catalyst-fuel.  Rossi has said that the nickel powder has 
micro-dimensions, not nano-dimensions.  Rossi says that Raney nickel (high 
surface area sponge nickel) will not work.  I observe that the most likely 
powder for this application is a nickel powder produced by the reduction of 
nickel carbonyl (a common process for producing high activity nickel powder).  
This produces flower-like buds of roughly spherical diameter in the 3-10 micron 
range with “petals” in the 100 nanometer thickness range.  This nickel powder 
has very high EXTERNAL surface area (as opposed to Raney nickel which has much 
of its area inside its sponge-like interior).  Why the external surface area is 
important will become clear in a moment.  Examples of this type of carbonyl 
nickel powder are Hunter Chemical’s AH50 
(http://www.hunterchem.com/nickel-powder-carbonyl-process-hydrogen-reduced.html 
) or Vale T255 
(http://www.vale.com/en-us/o-que-fazemos/mineracao/niquel/produtos/Documents/Nickel%20powders/T255-nickel-powder.pdf
 ).  I believe this type of nickel powder is the starting point.



  Rossi also talks of catalyst additives to the nickel powder.  These are 
widely believed to be a nanopowder additive, but what nanopowder?  Rossi states 
that the catalyst he used is inexpensive.  One of the things found by 
examination of available nanopowders is that metal oxide nanopowders are far 
less expensive than pure elemental nanopowders.  They are also far easier and 
safer to handle and to mix.  Another clue is that partially oxidized (partly 
reduced) metal oxide nanopowders are good catalysts and will break the H2 
molecules into monatomic hydrogen.  However, the mean free path of an H1 atom, 
before recombining to form an H2, is very short.  This means that the catalyst 
should be in direct contact with the nickel.  I believe that the catalyst is a 
simple metal oxide nanopowder that is finely dispersed across the “petals” of 
the nickel micro-powder “buds” and subsequently thermo-chemically treated. 



  I will go out on a limb and say that I believe the starting point for 
selecting a metal oxide nanopowder is to begin with Fe2O3 (for example Alfa 
Aesar 44895 http://www.alfa.com/en/GP100W.pgm?DSSTK=044895&rnd=516031653 ).  It 
is inexpensive, and a known catalyst when properly prepared (satisfies the 
Rossi criteria of being inexpensive).  Further, in the Kullander report on a 
Rossi ash, 11% iron (a lot of iron) is reported from elemental surface 
analysis.  Rossi explains the copper, but provides no explanation for the large 
amount of iron, perhaps because he knew it was an ingredient and did not want 
to call attention to that point.  



  The nickel micro-powder is very heavy while the metal oxide nanopowder is 
very light and fluffy.  I mixed an equal volume of nickel micro-powder and 
nanopowder, placing the nickel