RE: [WISPA] Physical Seperation

[Paul Hendry]

Wow, as close as that. There will be plenty of channel separation as well as
different polarization.

Cheers,

P.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mac Dearman
Sent: 29 December 2005 04:53
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Physical Seperation


 The 5.xGHz range is not like 802.11b where it has "over lapping" 
channels. I have 5.x dishes within 2' of each other as well as 5.x flat 
panels within a foot of each other with no interference at all. I would 
suggest different channels on each radio though!  :-)

GL

Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC.
www.inetsouth.com
www.radioresponse.org (Katrina relief efforts)
318-728-8600 - Rayville
318-728-9600





Paul Hendry wrote:

>Anyone have a good rule of thumb for physical separation of dishes? Looking
>at installing 3 short masts on a water tower with 2 dishes on each mast. 1
>will be horizontal and 1 vertical and both will be 5GHz. Is there a
>recommendation on how far the 2 antennas should physically be apart to
>minimize interference?
>
>Cheers,
>
>P.
> 
>
>  
>
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Re: [WISPA] Utility pole mount

[Bob Moldashel]

Or you could take someone's word for it that has done it probably 40+ 
times without issue


:-)

-B-



Jason wrote:


List,

   As a Mechanical Engineer (non-PE), there are 2 obvious failure 
modes.  First, there is the folding of the mast at the top bolt/mount. 
This is affected by the length of unsupported mast above the pole, the 
ridigity of the mast material, and the size of the hole you drill into 
it to mount it against the pole (so use a mount and don't drill a hole 
through it).  This failure mode is not affected by the amount of 
overlap.  The other failure mode is that the bolts/mounts are 
broken/torn from the pole.  This IS affected by the amount of 
overlap.  As long as your hardware is strong, the most likely failure 
will be the buckling one.  Once the strength of the mount setup 
exceeds the strength that it takes to fold the mast over, it will 
always fail by folding over.  So at this point increasing the amount 
of overlap does nothing.  This is especially true for very long, 
slender masts, and even more true for light gauge aluminum tube.  
Because there are so many variables, I propose that you do a quick 
test.  Take a piece of your mast material and mount it to a section of 
a power pole, cross tie, tree stump - whatever you think is a 
reasonable model of the final version.  Then try to bend the pole over 
with a come-along, drive your car/tractor over it, jump up and down on 
it - any reasonable contraption that mimics the bending effect of the 
wind.  Don't brace or otherwise touch the mount area of the setup to 
avoid skewing the test.  Also, do this in a direction that pulls or 
pushes the mast away from the pole to stress the mounts to the max.  
Then you should clearly see what the weak point in your system is and 
have a qualitative idea of what it can handle.  If it folds the mast 
over, your hardware and overlap are probably fine.  Disclaimer:  I can 
not be held responsible for your execution of this concept/test.  
Maybe execution is not a good way to put it...


Jason Wallace




--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP

[Kurt Fankhauser]

I did it to expose the problems associated with 802.11b/g which is a
technology that was NOT designed for what it is being used for today. I
think several people on the list realized what tricks can be done with
the SSID and now they are smarter because I posted it. The whole point
of the post is that you need to use a proprietary solution that was
designed for WISP usage. If you were a professional WISP you would be
using such solution and thus YOU and YOUR customers would not be subject
to someone doing this to you.

Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
114 S. Walnut St.
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of George
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 11:14 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP

Kurt
Your killing me.

This has to be the lowest underhanded thing I've heard on these list 
from a fellow wisp.

The goal to win is a fine goal, but winning by cheating is not a win at 
all, it's an admission of failure.

You need to understand that integrity and success go hand in hand.

Shaking my head.

George

And I only let you off lightly because your a young kid,


Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
> I do that too, 3 competitors have towers all within ¼ mile of each 
> other, I put their ssid in my AP but turn the broadcast off, their 
> clients associate to me and I deny all their access so when they try
to 
> hook up customers it looks like their connected but they cant figure
out 
> why it doesn’t work, keeps them from signing up clients in my area.
> 
>  
> 
> Kurt Fankhauser
> 
> WAVELINC
> 
> 114 S. Walnut St.
> 
> Bucyrus, OH 44820
> 
> 419-562-6405
> 
> www.wavelinc.com
> 
>  
> 
> -Original Message-
> *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

> *On Behalf Of *Rick Smith
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2005 8:12 AM
> *To:* 'WISPA General List'
> *Subject:* RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP
> 
>  
> 
> actually, I was kidding about the competitor thing, wanted to see if 
> it'd start a fire.  It's something I'd thought of, but you can't route

> based on Virtual AP SSID
> 
>  
> 
> Having an invididual hotspot page per virtual SSID would be cool, on a

> wholesale level...
> 
>  
> 
>

> 
> *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

> *On Behalf Of *Scott Reed
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2005 10:44 AM
> *To:* WISPA General List
> *Subject:* RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP
> 
> What happens when a potential customer sees the competition's name?
They 
> call the competitor who says, "We don't do that."  Then what, do you
get 
> called by the competitor?
> I guess my question is, how does advertising the competitor's name
help 
> you?
> 
> I like the wholesale idea though.  I may have to pursue that in the
future.
> 
> Scott Reed
> Owner
> NewWays
> Wireless Networking
> Network Design, Installation and Administration
> www.nwwnet.net 
> 
> The season is Christmas, not X-mas, not the holiday, but Christmas,
because
> Christ was born to provide salvation to all who will believe!
> 
> *-- Original Message ---*
> From: Rick Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> Sent: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 10:15:08 -0500
> Subject: RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP
> 
>>  Yep, I create virtual SSIDs for all my competitors names (they only
do 
> DSL) :)
>>
>>  I also wholesale service off one of my towers via 2.4 and 900 mhz to
a 
> local computer guy that likes to see his name "in the air" -
>>  the virtual SSID thing was a natural win...
>>
>>  Not sure about the broadcast thing...haven't seen a performance hit 
> because of the virtual ssid's ...
>>  R
>>
>>  -Original Message-
>>  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

> On Behalf Of Pete Davis
>>  Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 9:57 AM
>>  To: WISPA General List
>>  Subject: [WISPA] Virtual AP
>>
>>  Mikrotik APs have the capability to create a "Virtual AP" with a 
> secondary SSID, but I haven't found much documentation about it.
>>
>>  Has anyone used this feature much? I could see this being useful 
> during a transitional period, while you are changing the SSID, so
>>  you can access the CPE with the "old" ssid.
>>  I could also see this being useful for colocating two companies on
the 
> same tower/AP, like if you have an ISP geared toward
>>  residential service, and another company name/marketing scheme for 
> business customers.
>>  I don't know what kind of performance impact there is when you
create 
> a bunch of APs on one radio.
>>
>>  I had a wierd thought about this, however: If I have 40 clients on
an 
> AP, and set up 40 "virtual AP's" on the network with each
>>  client on his own SSID, do they count as 40 PTP links, allowing me
to 
> kick up the antenna gain like with the CPE?
>>
>>  Does the virtual AP really broadcast a secondary SSID, or does it 
> switch between the two rapidly, kind of like a poor man'

Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP

[Blair Davis]

The downside of proprietary systems is the being 'held hostage' to the
one manufacture  As some of us have already discovered.

And just because you have a network based on 'proprietary system',
don't think you are 'safe'.  You are not.

Blair

Kurt Fankhauser wrote:

  I did it to expose the problems associated with 802.11b/g which is a
technology that was NOT designed for what it is being used for today. I
think several people on the list realized what tricks can be done with
the SSID and now they are smarter because I posted it. The whole point
of the post is that you need to use a proprietary solution that was
designed for WISP usage. If you were a professional WISP you would be
using such solution and thus YOU and YOUR customers would not be subject
to someone doing this to you.

Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
114 S. Walnut St.
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of George
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 11:14 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP

Kurt
Your killing me.

This has to be the lowest underhanded thing I've heard on these list 
from a fellow wisp.

The goal to win is a fine goal, but winning by cheating is not a win at 
all, it's an admission of failure.

You need to understand that integrity and success go hand in hand.

Shaking my head.

George

And I only let you off lightly because your a young kid,


Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
  
  
I do that too, 3 competitors have towers all within ¼ mile of each 
other, I put their ssid in my AP but turn the broadcast off, their 
clients associate to me and I deny all their access so when they try

  
  to 
  
  
hook up customers it looks like their connected but they cant figure

  
  out 
  
  
why it doesn’t work, keeps them from signing up clients in my area.

 

Kurt Fankhauser

WAVELINC

114 S. Walnut St.

Bucyrus, OH 44820

419-562-6405

www.wavelinc.com

 

-Original Message-
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

  
  
  
  
*On Behalf Of *Rick Smith
*Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2005 8:12 AM
*To:* 'WISPA General List'
*Subject:* RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP

 

actually, I was kidding about the competitor thing, wanted to see if 
it'd start a fire.  It's something I'd thought of, but you can't route

  
  
  
  
based on Virtual AP SSID

 

Having an invididual hotspot page per virtual SSID would be cool, on a

  
  
  
  
wholesale level...

 



  
  
  
  
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

  
  
  
  
*On Behalf Of *Scott Reed
*Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2005 10:44 AM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP

What happens when a potential customer sees the competition's name?

  
  They 
  
  
call the competitor who says, "We don't do that."  Then what, do you

  
  get 
  
  
called by the competitor?
I guess my question is, how does advertising the competitor's name

  
  help 
  
  
you?

I like the wholesale idea though.  I may have to pursue that in the

  
  future.
  
  
Scott Reed
Owner
NewWays
Wireless Networking
Network Design, Installation and Administration
www.nwwnet.net 

The season is Christmas, not X-mas, not the holiday, but Christmas,

  
  because
  
  
Christ was born to provide salvation to all who will believe!

*-- Original Message ---*
From: Rick Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 10:15:08 -0500
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP



   Yep, I create virtual SSIDs for all my competitors names (they only
  

  
  do 
  
  
DSL) :)


   I also wholesale service off one of my towers via 2.4 and 900 mhz to
  

  
  a 
  
  
local computer guy that likes to see his name "in the air" -


   the virtual SSID thing was a natural win...

 Not sure about the broadcast thing...haven't seen a performance hit 
  

because of the virtual ssid's ...


   R

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  

  
  
  
  
On Behalf Of Pete Davis


   Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 9:57 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] Virtual AP

 Mikrotik APs have the capability to create a "Virtual AP" with a 
  

secondary SSID, but I haven't found much documentation about it.


   Has anyone used this feature much? I could see this being useful 
  

during a transitional period, while you are changing the SSID, so


   you can access the CPE with the "old" ssid.
 I could also see this being useful for colocating two companies on
  

  
  the 
  
  
same tower/AP, like if you have an ISP geared toward


   residential se

[WISPA] Looking for Trango

[Victoria Proffer]

Well it appears that Trango has done another flip flop on us.  
I called Electro-Comm this morning to order some FSU's and found that
Electro-Comm, as well as all other Trango resellers are no longer selling
Trango, it is now back to factory direct.  
If anyone has any new/used and working 5830 or Fox subscriber units that
they would like to sell, please hit me off list.

Happy Holidays,
Victoria Proffer
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
314-974-5600

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Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP

[Brett Hays]

I still rest better at night knowing my network 
doesn't show up in every teenager's copy of Netstumbler..

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Blair Davis 

  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 10:43 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP
  The downside of proprietary systems is the being 'held hostage' 
  to the one manufacture  As some of us have already 
  discovered.And just because you have a network based on 'proprietary 
  system', don't think you are 'safe'.  You are 
  not.BlairKurt Fankhauser wrote: 
  I did it to expose the problems associated with 802.11b/g which is a
technology that was NOT designed for what it is being used for today. I
think several people on the list realized what tricks can be done with
the SSID and now they are smarter because I posted it. The whole point
of the post is that you need to use a proprietary solution that was
designed for WISP usage. If you were a professional WISP you would be
using such solution and thus YOU and YOUR customers would not be subject
to someone doing this to you.

Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
114 S. Walnut St.
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of George
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 11:14 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP

Kurt
Your killing me.

This has to be the lowest underhanded thing I've heard on these list 
from a fellow wisp.

The goal to win is a fine goal, but winning by cheating is not a win at 
all, it's an admission of failure.

You need to understand that integrity and success go hand in hand.

Shaking my head.

George

And I only let you off lightly because your a young kid,


Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
  
I do that too, 3 competitors have towers all within ¼ mile of each 
other, I put their ssid in my AP but turn the broadcast off, their 
clients associate to me and I deny all their access so when they try
to 
  
hook up customers it looks like their connected but they cant figure
out 
  
why it doesn’t work, keeps them from signing up clients in my area.

 

Kurt Fankhauser

WAVELINC

114 S. Walnut St.

Bucyrus, OH 44820

419-562-6405

www.wavelinc.com

 

-Original Message-
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

  
*On Behalf Of *Rick Smith
*Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2005 8:12 AM
*To:* 'WISPA General List'
*Subject:* RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP

 

actually, I was kidding about the competitor thing, wanted to see if 
it'd start a fire.  It's something I'd thought of, but you can't route

  
based on Virtual AP SSID

 

Having an invididual hotspot page per virtual SSID would be cool, on a

  
wholesale level...

 



  
*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

  
*On Behalf Of *Scott Reed
*Sent:* Tuesday, December 27, 2005 10:44 AM
*To:* WISPA General List
*Subject:* RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP

What happens when a potential customer sees the competition's name?
They 
  
call the competitor who says, "We don't do that."  Then what, do you
get 
  
called by the competitor?
I guess my question is, how does advertising the competitor's name
help 
  
you?

I like the wholesale idea though.  I may have to pursue that in the
future.
  
Scott Reed
Owner
NewWays
Wireless Networking
Network Design, Installation and Administration
www.nwwnet.net 

The season is Christmas, not X-mas, not the holiday, but Christmas,
because
  
Christ was born to provide salvation to all who will believe!

*-- Original Message ---*
From: Rick Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 10:15:08 -0500
Subject: RE: [WISPA] Virtual AP


   Yep, I create virtual SSIDs for all my competitors names (they only
  do 
  
DSL) :)

   I also wholesale service off one of my towers via 2.4 and 900 mhz to
  a 
  
local computer guy that likes to see his name "in the air" -

   the virtual SSID thing was a natural win...

 Not sure about the broadcast thing...haven't seen a performance hit 
  because of the virtual ssid's ...

   R

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
  
  
On Behalf Of Pete Davis

   Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 9:57 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] Virtual AP

 Mikrotik APs have the capability to create a "Virtual AP" with a 
  secondary SSID, but I haven't found much documentation about it.

   Has anyone used this feature much? I could see this being useful 
  during a transitional period, while you are changing the SSID, so

   you can access the CPE with the "old" ssid.
 I could also see this being useful for colocating two companies on
  the 
  
same tower/AP, like if you have an I

Re: [WISPA] anyone ever heard of an Airvast ap?

[Ron Wallace]

Marlon,
Google "Airvast Technology", Taiwan Co., claim to be the "World Leader in Wireless">-Original Message->From: Marlon K. Schafer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 09:43 PM>To: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com>Cc: 'Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization'>Subject: [WISPA] anyone ever heard of an Airvast ap?>>>>thanks!>marlon>>-- >WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org>>Subscribe/Unsubscribe:>http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless>>Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/>
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Re[2]: [WISPA] Virtual AP

[Barry at Mutual Data]

Hello Brett,

But it does show up in Kismet.

Barry

Thursday, December 29, 2005, 10:52:01 AM, you wrote:

  
 
BH> I still rest better at night knowing my network  doesn't show
BH> up in every teenager's copy of Netstumbler..
 
  
BH> - Original Message - 
  
BH> From:  Blair Davis  
  
BH> To: WISPA General List 
  
BH> Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 10:43AM
  
BH> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP
  

BH> The downside of proprietary systems is the being 'held
BH> hostage'to the one manufacture  As some of us have already
BH> discovered.

BH> And just because you have a network based on 'proprietary   
BH> system', don't think you are 'safe'.  You arenot.

BH> Blair

BH> Kurt Fankhauser wrote: 
BH> I did it to expose the problems associated with 802.11b/g which is a
BH> technology that was NOT designed for what it is being used for today. I
BH> think several people on the list realized what tricks can be done with
BH> the SSID and now they are smarter because I posted it. The whole point
BH> of the post is that you need to use a proprietary solution that was
BH> designed for WISP usage. If you were a professional WISP you would be
BH> using such solution and thus YOU and YOUR customers would not be subject
BH> to someone doing this to you.




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Re: Re[2]: [WISPA] Virtual AP

[Brett Hays]

I've never played around with Kismet...does it show Trango?

- Original Message - 
From: "Barry at Mutual Data" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 11:07 AM
Subject: Re[2]: [WISPA] Virtual AP



Hello Brett,

But it does show up in Kismet.

Barry

Thursday, December 29, 2005, 10:52:01 AM, you wrote:



BH> I still rest better at night knowing my network  doesn't show
BH> up in every teenager's copy of Netstumbler..


BH> - Original Message - 


BH> From:  Blair Davis

BH> To: WISPA General List

BH> Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 10:43AM

BH> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP


BH> The downside of proprietary systems is the being 'held
BH> hostage'to the one manufacture As some of us have already
BH> discovered.

BH> And just because you have a network based on 'proprietary
BH> system', don't think you are 'safe'. You arenot.

BH> Blair

BH> Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
BH> I did it to expose the problems associated with 802.11b/g which is a
BH> technology that was NOT designed for what it is being used for today. 
I

BH> think several people on the list realized what tricks can be done with
BH> the SSID and now they are smarter because I posted it. The whole point
BH> of the post is that you need to use a proprietary solution that was
BH> designed for WISP usage. If you were a professional WISP you would be
BH> using such solution and thus YOU and YOUR customers would not be 
subject

BH> to someone doing this to you.




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Re: [WISPA] Utility pole mount

[Jason]

Sure, just my 2 cents.

Bob Moldashel wrote:

Or you could take someone's word for it that has done it probably 40+ 
times without issue


:-)

-B-



Jason wrote:


List,

   As a Mechanical Engineer (non-PE), there are 2 obvious failure 
modes.  First, there is the folding of the mast at the top 
bolt/mount. This is affected by the length of unsupported mast above 
the pole, the ridigity of the mast material, and the size of the hole 
you drill into it to mount it against the pole (so use a mount and 
don't drill a hole through it).  This failure mode is not affected by 
the amount of overlap.  The other failure mode is that the 
bolts/mounts are broken/torn from the pole.  This IS affected by the 
amount of overlap.  As long as your hardware is strong, the most 
likely failure will be the buckling one.  Once the strength of the 
mount setup exceeds the strength that it takes to fold the mast over, 
it will always fail by folding over.  So at this point increasing the 
amount of overlap does nothing.  This is especially true for very 
long, slender masts, and even more true for light gauge aluminum 
tube.  Because there are so many variables, I propose that you do a 
quick test.  Take a piece of your mast material and mount it to a 
section of a power pole, cross tie, tree stump - whatever you think 
is a reasonable model of the final version.  Then try to bend the 
pole over with a come-along, drive your car/tractor over it, jump up 
and down on it - any reasonable contraption that mimics the bending 
effect of the wind.  Don't brace or otherwise touch the mount area of 
the setup to avoid skewing the test.  Also, do this in a direction 
that pulls or pushes the mast away from the pole to stress the mounts 
to the max.  Then you should clearly see what the weak point in your 
system is and have a qualitative idea of what it can handle.  If it 
folds the mast over, your hardware and overlap are probably fine.  
Disclaimer:  I can not be held responsible for your execution of this 
concept/test.  Maybe execution is not a good way to put it...


Jason Wallace





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Re: [WISPA] Utility pole mount

[Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181]

2" water pipe.  It'll be heavy but it'll get 
you up there.  21' long.
 
laters,
Marlon(509) 
982-2181   
Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 
(Vonage)    
Consulting services42846865 
(icq)    
And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
 
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Scott Reed 
  To: wireless@wispa.org 
  Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 5:14 
  PM
  Subject: [WISPA] Utility pole mount
  I need to mount a 24dB grid 15' above the top of 
  an existing privately owned utility pole. Any suggestions on bracket, mast, 
  etc.? Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking 
  Network Design, Installation and Administration www.nwwnet.net The 
  season is Christmas, not X-mas, not the holiday, but Christmas, because 
  Christ was born to provide salvation to all who will believe! 
  
  

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RE: [WISPA] anyone ever heard of an Airvast ap?

[Paul Hendry]

Woh. World leader!! I had better order
some kit then ;)

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Wallace
Sent: 29 December 2005 15:56
To: WISPA
 General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] anyone ever
heard of an Airvast ap?



 

Marlon,

Google
"Airvast Technology", Taiwan Co., claim to be the "World Leader
in Wireless"

>-Original Message-
>From: Marlon K. Schafer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 09:43 PM
>To: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com
>Cc: 'Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization'
>Subject: [WISPA] anyone ever heard of an Airvast ap?
>
>
>
>thanks!
>marlon
>
>-- 
>WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
>Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
>Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>








--
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.9/216 - Release Date: 29/12/2005
 

  

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Re: [WISPA] Looking for Trango

[Mac Dearman]

~V

  I havent got any used Trango gear, but I bet I can help you with some 
new Trango gear. Hit me off list or call me and we can shoot the $hlT!


Later,

Mac Dearman
Maximum Access, LLC.
www.inetsouth.com
www.radioresponse.org (Katrina relief efforts)
318-728-8600 - Rayville
318-728-9600





Victoria Proffer wrote:

Well it appears that Trango has done another flip flop on us.  
I called Electro-Comm this morning to order some FSU's and found that

Electro-Comm, as well as all other Trango resellers are no longer selling
Trango, it is now back to factory direct.  
If anyone has any new/used and working 5830 or Fox subscriber units that

they would like to sell, please hit me off list.

Happy Holidays,
Victoria Proffer
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
314-974-5600

 


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Re: [WISPA] anyone ever heard of an Airvast ap?

[Marlon K. Schafer (509) 982-2181]

Grin.  I was looking for direct 
experiences  And I was out in the field and didn't have time to google 
anything.
 
laters,
Marlon(509) 
982-2181   
Equipment sales(408) 907-6910 
(Vonage)    
Consulting services42846865 
(icq)    
And I run my own wisp!64.146.146.12 (net meeting)www.odessaoffice.com/wirelesswww.odessaoffice.com/marlon/cam
 
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Ron 
  Wallace 
  To: WISPA General List 
  Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 7:55 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] anyone ever heard of 
  an Airvast ap?
  
  Marlon,
  Google "Airvast Technology", Taiwan Co., claim to be the "World Leader in 
  Wireless">-Original Message->From: Marlon K. Schafer 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 09:43 
  PM>To: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com>Cc: 
  'Conversations over a new WISP Trade Organization'>Subject: [WISPA] 
  anyone ever heard of an Airvast 
  ap?>>>>thanks!>marlon>>-- 
  >WISPA Wireless List: 
  wireless@wispa.org>>Subscribe/Unsubscribe:>http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless>>Archives: 
  http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/>
  
  

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Re: Re[2]: [WISPA] Virtual AP

[Haudy Kazemi]

It might interest people here that Kismet is no longer a Linux-only
software.  There is now KisWin...
http://www.renderlab.net/projects/wrt54g/kiswin.html

The caveat is it requires a Linksys WRT54G or WRT54GS or similar to perform
the scanning (as a wireless receiver), and the Windows PC displays the
output.  One should avoid WRT54G version 5 (serial numbers starting with
CDFB) (it has half the flash and ram as earlier versions (2mb/8mb), and
runs VxWorks) and latest WRT54GS (serial numbers starting with CGN60) (it
has half the flash and ram as before (4mb/16mb)).
BTW, linksysinfo.org has a review article that compares all the versions of
the WRT54G's.

At 11:10 AM 12/29/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>I've never played around with Kismet...does it show Trango?
>
>- Original Message - 
>From: "Barry at Mutual Data" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "WISPA General List" 
>Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 11:07 AM
>Subject: Re[2]: [WISPA] Virtual AP
>
>
>> Hello Brett,
>>
>> But it does show up in Kismet.
>>
>> Barry
>>
>> Thursday, December 29, 2005, 10:52:01 AM, you wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> BH> I still rest better at night knowing my network  doesn't show
>> BH> up in every teenager's copy of Netstumbler..
>>
>>
>> BH> - Original Message - 
>>
>> BH> From:  Blair Davis
>>
>> BH> To: WISPA General List
>>
>> BH> Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 10:43AM
>>
>> BH> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP
>>
>>
>> BH> The downside of proprietary systems is the being 'held
>> BH> hostage'to the one manufacture As some of us have already
>> BH> discovered.
>>
>> BH> And just because you have a network based on 'proprietary
>> BH> system', don't think you are 'safe'. You arenot.
>>
>> BH> Blair
>>
>> BH> Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
>> BH> I did it to expose the problems associated with 802.11b/g which is a
>> BH> technology that was NOT designed for what it is being used for today. 
>> I
>> BH> think several people on the list realized what tricks can be done with
>> BH> the SSID and now they are smarter because I posted it. The whole point
>> BH> of the post is that you need to use a proprietary solution that was
>> BH> designed for WISP usage. If you were a professional WISP you would be
>> BH> using such solution and thus YOU and YOUR customers would not be 
>> subject
>> BH> to someone doing this to you.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>> 
>
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[WISPA] anyone have SCADA expertise?

[Brett Hays]

I have a water tower near one of my 900Mhz ap's 
that's causing me a lot of interference due to the water company's SCADA 
stuff.  Does anyone know if the devices they use have channel control in 
terms of switching channels within 900Mhz or are they all over the place all the 
time.  I have a sense the water company might do some channel management 
with me, but I wanted to know if their equipment had that capability before I 
made the enquiry.
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RE: Re[2]: [WISPA] Virtual AP

[Kurt Fankhauser]

Lol, churchofwifi.org look at this group of war drivers they seem to be
hung up on linksys, outdoor linksys enclosure's and other consumer grade
wifi boxes. Check out the War Driving rig.

Kurt Fankhauser
WAVELINC
114 S. Walnut St.
Bucyrus, OH 44820
419-562-6405
www.wavelinc.com


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Haudy Kazemi
Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 9:30 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [WISPA] Virtual AP

It might interest people here that Kismet is no longer a Linux-only
software.  There is now KisWin...
http://www.renderlab.net/projects/wrt54g/kiswin.html

The caveat is it requires a Linksys WRT54G or WRT54GS or similar to
perform
the scanning (as a wireless receiver), and the Windows PC displays the
output.  One should avoid WRT54G version 5 (serial numbers starting with
CDFB) (it has half the flash and ram as earlier versions (2mb/8mb), and
runs VxWorks) and latest WRT54GS (serial numbers starting with CGN60)
(it
has half the flash and ram as before (4mb/16mb)).
BTW, linksysinfo.org has a review article that compares all the versions
of
the WRT54G's.

At 11:10 AM 12/29/2005 -0500, you wrote:
>I've never played around with Kismet...does it show Trango?
>
>- Original Message - 
>From: "Barry at Mutual Data" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "WISPA General List" 
>Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 11:07 AM
>Subject: Re[2]: [WISPA] Virtual AP
>
>
>> Hello Brett,
>>
>> But it does show up in Kismet.
>>
>> Barry
>>
>> Thursday, December 29, 2005, 10:52:01 AM, you wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> BH> I still rest better at night knowing my network  doesn't show
>> BH> up in every teenager's copy of Netstumbler..
>>
>>
>> BH> - Original Message - 
>>
>> BH> From:  Blair Davis
>>
>> BH> To: WISPA General List
>>
>> BH> Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 10:43AM
>>
>> BH> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP
>>
>>
>> BH> The downside of proprietary systems is the being 'held
>> BH> hostage'to the one manufacture As some of us have already
>> BH> discovered.
>>
>> BH> And just because you have a network based on 'proprietary
>> BH> system', don't think you are 'safe'. You arenot.
>>
>> BH> Blair
>>
>> BH> Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
>> BH> I did it to expose the problems associated with 802.11b/g which
is a
>> BH> technology that was NOT designed for what it is being used for
today. 
>> I
>> BH> think several people on the list realized what tricks can be done
with
>> BH> the SSID and now they are smarter because I posted it. The whole
point
>> BH> of the post is that you need to use a proprietary solution that
was
>> BH> designed for WISP usage. If you were a professional WISP you
would be
>> BH> using such solution and thus YOU and YOUR customers would not be 
>> subject
>> BH> to someone doing this to you.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>> 
>
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>
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No virus found in this incoming message.
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12/23/2005


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Re: [WISPA] anyone have SCADA expertise?

[Barry at Mutual Data]

Hello Brett,
 Usually it is:
1Watt max power
freq. Hopping- no channel setting ability
Make sure they are not using an antenna larger then 6db or an omni.
FCC regs limit antenna size if using 1 watt power output.

Best thing is polarity switch and then see if you can put a load in
the rf cable to reduce power.

And tilt their antenna down to help reduce power radiated.

Course that assumes the DPW will work with you. On link we had their
office died so it was easier to let them decide  to let us "fix" their
network.

Barry

Thursday, December 29, 2005, 4:12:27 PM, you wrote:

  
 
BH> I have a water tower near one of my 900Mhz ap's  that's
BH> causing me a lot of interference due to the water company's SCADA 
BH> stuff.  Does anyone know if the devices they use have channel
BH> control in  terms of switching channels within 900Mhz or are they
BH> all over the place all the  time.  I have a sense the water
BH> company might do some channel management  with me, but I wanted to
BH> know if their equipment had that capability before I  made the
BH> enquiry.

  



-- 
Best regards,
 Barrymailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: [WISPA] anyone have SCADA expertise?

[Tom DeReggi]

Much of the SCADA system was Frequency Hopping (all 
over the place).   A good combat for that is a radios that 
supports ARQ.
Also, use Horizontal pol as much as possible.  
Doesn't mean there aren't DSSS ones. Most of the SCADA systems I thought used 
narrow channels, and didn't take a lot of bandwdith. You should 
definately contact them, to discuss if you 
know who you are interfering with. The FCC has also requested that we as 
WISPs work hard to work with the local power companies that we interfer with. 
They are the biggest entities fighting to limit us using higher power 
limits in 900. 
 
Tom DeReggiRapidDSL & Wireless, IncIntAirNet- Fixed Wireless 
Broadband
 
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Brett Hays 
  
  To: isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com 
  
  Cc: Conversations over a new WISP Trade 
  Organization 
  Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 4:12 
  PM
  Subject: [WISPA] anyone have SCADA 
  expertise?
  
  I have a water tower near one of my 900Mhz ap's 
  that's causing me a lot of interference due to the water company's SCADA 
  stuff.  Does anyone know if the devices they use have channel control in 
  terms of switching channels within 900Mhz or are they all over the place all 
  the time.  I have a sense the water company might do some channel 
  management with me, but I wanted to know if their equipment had that 
  capability before I made the enquiry.
  
  

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[WISPA] Re: verizon fios - Advertising Battle

[Steve Stroh]

John:

In years previous, the telcos had whittled away at UNE to the point 
that if they deployed "advanced services" in the last mile - read 
fiber, even an inch of it in the neighborhood cable vault (and the rest 
remained copper), then the telcos didn't have to share. But if there 
was a copper loop from the home/business to the CO, UNE applied. That 
was then.


But with a recent Federal appeals court ruling, UNE is no more. There 
is NO legal requirement for telcos to share their copper at ALL.


Telcos have PRIVATE agreements to share the copper loop - Verizon just 
reached one with Covad, but now it's ENTIRELY at the OPTION of the 
telcos.


For you that are working with telcos, usually smaller ones, that don't 
seem inclined to take advantage of this leverage, count your blessings 
- they may well be fleeting.


The FCC wrangled something of a concession that the telcos wouldn't 
make major changes in existing UNE arrangements until June 2006.


But after June, the gloves are completely off. A lot of ISP business 
models will be completely wrecked.


You guys haven't been going to enough conferences and listening to very 
bright people like Kris Twomey try and explain such things to the 
(W)ISP industry. Shame on that Michael Anderson for putting Kris up in 
front of an audience to try to keep the WISP industry informed.



Thanks,

Steve


On Dec 28, 2005, at 06:54, John Scrivner wrote:

Can you explain this statement for me? Excuse my lack of knowledge 
here. What are you referring to as a MSA? Also let us hear a little 
more detail about this statement please.


I thought if the service drop was used to deliver phone service that 
the telco had to allow UNE access to the line. This has changed? I 
knew it had gone away in terms of access to  advanced broadband 
facilities like DSLAMs and such but I thought the RBOCs still had to 
give up access to subscriber lines regardless of the media? Please 
elaborate.

Thank you,
Scriv


---

Steve Stroh
425-939-0076 | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.stevestroh.com

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RE: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing - Triple Play

[dustin jurman]

Sure do, 

http://www.rapidsys.com/sec_dsl/wireless.asp

Also build networks for other folks, have our own tower crews on staff,
bucket trucks, Member of NATE, etc. 

I'm sure Marlon can fill you in a bit more. 

You can find our whitepapers on Moto's site and Orthogon. Been on the podium
with Tom, Tim Sanders, gone to the FCC a couple of times on my own dime for
Wispa, and other groups, yada, yada, yada. 

Dustin Jurman
President
Rapid Systems Corporation
1211 N. Westshore Blvd
Tampa, FL 33607
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bob Moldashel
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 10:08 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing - Triple Play

dustin jurman wrote:

>Well Tom, it sounds like you should focus on business customers or 
>lower your residential prices so there is no savings when the cable 
>company comes after your customers. You would have to apply your 
>reduced rates across the board to your residential customers. Coming 
>back to a customer after the fact is a tough proposition, I don't 
>believe single bill is so much of an issue for you as trying to save a 
>customer in the 4th quarter when your down by a few Touchdowns.
>
>Dustin Jurman
>President
>Rapid Systems Corporation
>1211 N. Westshore Blvd
>Tampa, FL 33607
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
>  
>
Hey Dustin,

Do you do wireless down there  Your website says nothing about it. 
Just fiber and DSL

Just wondering...

-B-

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[WISPA] Local Media Coverage for Katrina GIS Response Vehicle

[Brian Webster]

Hi Folks, Happy New Year. 

    For 
those who had the chance to help out during the Katrina response and met Anthony 
Veltri with his mobile GIS lab, here is a local TV report on his van and the 
response http://www.turnto10.com/news/5695464/detail.html, 
you need to allow pop ups to view the video. He has also published a book with 
all of his photos from his trip. Most of the photos are the same ones from his 
blog of the adventure.
Thank You,
Brian Webster


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RE: Re[2]: [WISPA] Virtual AP

[G.Villarini]

Since when kismet scans and shows proprietary wireless protocols ?

Gino A. Villarini, 
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.aeronetpr.com
787.767.7466
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brett Hays
Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 12:11 PM
To: Barry at Mutual Data; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: Re[2]: [WISPA] Virtual AP

I've never played around with Kismet...does it show Trango?

- Original Message - 
From: "Barry at Mutual Data" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 11:07 AM
Subject: Re[2]: [WISPA] Virtual AP


> Hello Brett,
>
> But it does show up in Kismet.
>
> Barry
>
> Thursday, December 29, 2005, 10:52:01 AM, you wrote:
>
>
>
> BH> I still rest better at night knowing my network  doesn't show
> BH> up in every teenager's copy of Netstumbler..
>
>
> BH> - Original Message - 
>
> BH> From:  Blair Davis
>
> BH> To: WISPA General List
>
> BH> Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2005 10:43AM
>
> BH> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Virtual AP
>
>
> BH> The downside of proprietary systems is the being 'held
> BH> hostage'to the one manufacture As some of us have already
> BH> discovered.
>
> BH> And just because you have a network based on 'proprietary
> BH> system', don't think you are 'safe'. You arenot.
>
> BH> Blair
>
> BH> Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
> BH> I did it to expose the problems associated with 802.11b/g which is a
> BH> technology that was NOT designed for what it is being used for today. 
> I
> BH> think several people on the list realized what tricks can be done with
> BH> the SSID and now they are smarter because I posted it. The whole point
> BH> of the post is that you need to use a proprietary solution that was
> BH> designed for WISP usage. If you were a professional WISP you would be
> BH> using such solution and thus YOU and YOUR customers would not be 
> subject
> BH> to someone doing this to you.
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> 

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Re: [WISPA] anyone have SCADA expertise?

[Brian Rohrbacher]

I've heard most SCADA stories about how
they use all kinds of watts to go a mile or two.  Most of the time all
it takes is showing them how to do a link and not over power the crap
out of everything.  (from what I have heard)

Brett Hays wrote:

  
  
  
  I have a water tower near one of my
900Mhz ap's that's causing me a lot of interference due to the water
company's SCADA stuff.  Does anyone know if the devices they use have
channel control in terms of switching channels within 900Mhz or are
they all over the place all the time.  I have a sense the water company
might do some channel management with me, but I wanted to know if their
equipment had that capability before I made the enquiry.


-- 
Brian Rohrbacher
Reliable Internet, LLC
www.reliableinter.net
Cell 269-838-8338

"Caught up in the Air" 1 Thess. 4:17


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Re: [WISPA] anyone have SCADA expertise?

[john]

I use Waverider and have none of these problems. They have bandpass filters for 
the CCU end which keeps adjacent carriers from interfering. If it is "in 
channel" interference this will not help. 

If you use Waverider gear it also has the added advantage of giving you a very 
nice graphic spectrum analysis which will show you what channel you and the 
SCADA system are running on in perfect detail. 

If you happen to have an stand-alone spectrum analyzer it should give you this 
same data. Some SCADA systems can be setup to use different channel space and 
some do not. I do not know enough about your system there to answer that. I am 
guessing the spectrum analysis would tell you everything you need to know to 
fix the problem. 
Best of luck,
Scriv



-- Original Message --
From: "Brett Hays" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
Date:  Thu, 29 Dec 2005 16:12:27 -0500

>I have a water tower near one of my 900Mhz ap's that's causing me a lot of 
>interference due to the water company's SCADA stuff.  Does anyone know if the 
>devices they use have channel control in terms of switching channels within 
>900Mhz or are they all over the place all the time.  I have a sense the water 
>company might do some channel management with me, but I wanted to know if 
>their equipment had that capability before I made the enquiry.
>
>
>
 





Sent via the WebMail system at scrivner.com


 
   
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[WISPA] Requesting board member contact

[Rudolph Worrell]

I would like to be contacted off list by one of the board members of WISPA.

Rudy Worrell
Wave2Net High Speed Internet
www.Wave2Net.com






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[WISPA] AIRlok

[Rick Schlander]

Has anyone deployed the AIRlok (WISP-in-a-box) product?  And
if so, what do you think of it?

 

Thanks

 

Rick Schlander

MRVNet – Minnesota
  River Valley
Network

 

 

 

 






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Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing

[John Thomas]

Not all equipment can do it, but at least Cisco APs can. At layer 2 
using WDS, you can hand off from 1 AP to another while using VOIP and 
not lose the connection-it's less than 50 ms. If you want to do layer 3, 
it'll cost a bunch of money because the WLSM blade is $18,000 for the 
Catalyst 6500. Cisco just released their Mesh stuff, and it is also 
supposed to roam cleanly. We are anxiously awaitng our hardware to start 
testing, but if it works as advertised, it will be quite sweet. The Mesh 
units use 5.x GHz for backhaul and 2.4 GHz for access.


John



Matt Liotta wrote:

FYI, when I visited the FCC, they were very specific that Wi-Fi cannot 
roam. Wi-Fi users can be nomadic in that as they move from AP to AP 
the client is disconnected and then reconnected. True roaming involves 
handoffs from node to node like on a cell network. Specifically, a 
cell phone actually makes a new connection and initiates the handoff. 
Wi-Fi clients are rather dumb and don't have this ability. The 
difference is related to maintaining state on any network connections, 
which is especially important for VoIP and VPN.


-Matt

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

No, we don't use WIFI, it is strictly a fixed wireless network at 
this point


 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
On Behalf

Of John Thomas
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 9:37 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing

Is your wireless network set up to allow roaming? You can't roam with
fiber


John


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  

Ah but what about the new customer  who is comparing FIOS to what I 
offer?



FIOS
  


will have tv and voip ( we do voip now but no tv )

Times are a changing and verizon is putting flyers on everything 
around



boston,
  


ma to promote FIOS, like pizza box's, dry cleaning slips etc

Dan







-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
  



Behalf
  


Of Bob Moldashel
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 4:15 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] verizon fios pricing

It is reasons like this that I am a firm believer in contracts!

-B-


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



  

Although the service is not available yet in my area, it is 
getting close




and
  

reports are it could be available in 2006 - check out this 
pricing - the






15Mbps


  

for $49.95 a month seems like a really good deal and would be 
tough to




beat,
  

currently I am using Nstream/MT which gives me about 20Mbps to 
the customer


Up to 5 Mbps/2 Mbps   $34.95 - $39.95
Up to 15 Mbps/2 Mbps $44.95 - $49.95
Up to 30 Mbps/5 Mbps $179.95 - $199.95









--
Bob Moldashel
Lakeland Communications, Inc.
Broadband Deployment Group
1350 Lincoln Avenue
Holbrook, New York 11741 USA
800-479-9195 Toll Free US & Canada
631-585-5558 Fax
516-551-1131 Cell

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