Re: [WISPA] top 10 benefits of Wimax in 3.65ghz - my 2 cents

[Rogelio]

Charles Wu wrote:
> Even thought this thread is a bit old, couldn't help but add my 2 cents (as 
> there seems to be a resurgence of "puff" in this space)
> 
> DISCLAIMER: I am also a vendor of various WiMAX 802.16d systems - so feel 
> free to apply your necessary 'BS' filter

What I find most interesting in the wireless space is the fact that the 
most wireless savvy people I know roll their eyes when WiMAX is mentioned.

I'm not sure the reasons for this, but it seems to do with the over 
hyped expectations, as well as the fact that WiMAX really "works" only 
for those people who (a) have already bought spectrum rights, (b) are 
willing to buy a bunch of other equipment, (c) or have situations where 
the unlicensed spectrum is already too crowded.

I'd love to know more about WiMAX, but I seem to get one extreme or the 
other from those I talk to -- it either solves world hunger, or it's a 
giant piece of crap.

Obviously there has got to be a happy medium (a giant piece of crap that 
solves world hunger, perhaps?)



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Re: [WISPA] Just what we need.

[Chuck McCown]

No no, I am saying that the power rates represent a cost of doing business 
plus their regulated rate of return.
They are asking that the expense of building a broadband network to be 
allowed to be added to their rate base.
Thus keeping rates up and earning a rate or return on the broadband network.
I don't care if they want to use below the line money to build and operate a 
network.  But in the world of utility regulation, above the line expense is 
sacred.  This would mean the little old lady that does not even have a 
computer would be paying for the broadband network as part of rates.  That 
is not right.  Power should be as low as possible and power rates should 
never support non regulated activities.  This is called cross subsidization. 
I know a telco manager that was thrown against the wall and handcuffed in 
front of his board of directors by the state AG financial crimes unit 
because a disgruntled employee told them that he had directed above the line 
revenue to be used to pay for unregulated broadband equipment.  This is a 
very touchy subject.
- Original Message - 
From: "David E. Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Just what we need.


> Chuck McCown wrote:
>> The power company wants to take rate payer money and build a broadband
>> network that will contact each meter for the purpose of managing energy. 
>> It
>> will also supply broadband to the homeowner if they want.  This should 
>> not
>> be allowed.
>
> I'll bite. Why not?
>
> (The following may not represent the views of my boss, my company, WISPA
> for whom I occasionally do work, or even myself.)
>
> Power utilities have invested tens of millions of dollars into their
> infrastructure. As a publicly-regulated utility, they're required to
> continue to spend money on a regular basis to maintain and upgrade the
> infrastructure. Why shouldn't they be permitted to try to recoup some of
> that cost through non-traditional means?
>
> Are you arguing that they shouldn't be allowed to start using
> automated-meter-reading technology, or that they shouldn't be allowed to
> sell Internet connectivity using that same system? There's a very fine
> line between the two.
>
> David Smith
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
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>
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Re: [WISPA] Just what we need.

[David E. Smith]

Chuck McCown wrote:
> The power company wants to take rate payer money and build a broadband 
> network that will contact each meter for the purpose of managing energy.  It 
> will also supply broadband to the homeowner if they want.  This should not 
> be allowed.

I'll bite. Why not?

(The following may not represent the views of my boss, my company, WISPA 
for whom I occasionally do work, or even myself.)

Power utilities have invested tens of millions of dollars into their 
infrastructure. As a publicly-regulated utility, they're required to 
continue to spend money on a regular basis to maintain and upgrade the 
infrastructure. Why shouldn't they be permitted to try to recoup some of 
that cost through non-traditional means?

Are you arguing that they shouldn't be allowed to start using 
automated-meter-reading technology, or that they shouldn't be allowed to 
sell Internet connectivity using that same system? There's a very fine 
line between the two.

David Smith



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[WISPA] Trango Fox 5300

[Cameron Kilton]

If you anybody has some and are interested in selling 3 or 4, please
e-mail me off list. 

Thank You,
Cameron Kilton
Broadband Department
Assistant Systems Administrator
Midcoast Internet Solutions
http://www.midcoast.com/
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(207)594-8277 ext. 108
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Re: [WISPA] Just what we need.

[Chuck McCown]

The power company wants to take rate payer money and build a broadband 
network that will contact each meter for the purpose of managing energy.  It 
will also supply broadband to the homeowner if they want.  This should not 
be allowed.

- Original Message - 
From: "David E. Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 1:34 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Just what we need.


> Chuck McCown wrote:
>> Time to speak up.
>
> Anyone care to translate this for those among us who don't speak
> lawyerese, and who don't live/work in Indiana?
>
> David Smith
> MVN.net
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
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>
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>
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> 




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Re: [WISPA] Just what we need.

[David E. Smith]

Chuck McCown wrote:
> Time to speak up.

Anyone care to translate this for those among us who don't speak 
lawyerese, and who don't live/work in Indiana?

David Smith
MVN.net



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Re: [WISPA] Fwd: Dateline NBC Special on TowerDogs

[Bob Moldashel]

Can't be any worse than it is right now.like $104 per $100 of salary in
NY

-B-


On 7/18/08 12:19 AM, "Larry Yunker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> "according to figures cited by OSHA, these so-called tower dogs have the
> highest death rate per capita of any occupation in the country"
> 
> OUCH!!! I can just feel the impact on worker's compensation classification
> ratings already!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> --
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Re: [WISPA] top 10 benefits of Wimax in 3.65ghz - my 2 cents

[Gino Villarini]

They dont have any ofdm 900 product

gino

-Original Message-
From: Travis Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 2:09 AM
To: WISPA General List 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] top 10 benefits of Wimax in 3.65ghz - my 2 cents

What about Trango? 

Charles Wu wrote: 

So, what down converted 802.11a systems are there for 900?



Mini-PCI:
Ubiquiti
Zcomax

Vendor Solutions:
Tranzeo
Alvarion
Vecima/WaveRider
Wu-Wu Special*

*We are doing some exploratory investigation =)

-Charles

- Original Message -
From: "Charles Wu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
To: "WISPA General List"  
 
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 9:19 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] top 10 benefits of Wimax in 3.65ghz - my 2 cents


  

Even thought this thread is a bit old, couldn't help but add my 
2 cents
(as there seems to be a resurgence of "puff" in this space)



DISCLAIMER: I am also a vendor of various WiMAX 802.16d systems 
- so feel
free to apply your necessary 'BS' filter





Benefits of Wimax in 3.65ghz



1. Spectral efficiency ( 4.85 gross bp/hz ) On a six sector

configuration with only 25mhz of spectrum, you can effectively 
deliver

approx 20mb per sector or 120 mb / per pop, 240 mb when all 50 
mhz is

supported. Support for thousands of subscribers is possible off 
the same

BSU.



This isn't all too exciting, IMO - there are plenty of systems 
out there
that have similar (if not better) spectral efficiency 
characteristics as
to what the WiMAX 802.16d standard offers...also, with the 
uncertainties
of 3650 licensing, which is, from an interference protection 
perspective,
not that much different that Part-15, higher order modulation 
schemes
don't do much in the presence of noise



Case in point: Why does everyone keep using Canopy 900 MHz 
systems when
you can get an 802.11a OFDM-based down-converted system that 
delivers 3-4x
the throughput?  Well, it's a matter of what's actually going 
to work in
the crowded 900 MHz band.





2. multiple vendor support ( currently you have Redline, Aperto,

Airspan, Alvarion, all with FCC approved equipment )



The "concept" of interoperability is one of the most "oversold" 
features
of WiMAX which needs to be explained...



Fictitious Scenario:



Say I had deployed Brand A system for my business users, and in 
order to
enable VoIP services, I enable a variety of the more advanced 
MAC features
(rTP for my VoIP)...I set up a variety of service flows that are
customized to each user...blah blah blah



Problem is, Brand A system, for whatever reason, didn't support 
UGS and a
few esoteric service flow / packet filtering features, but at 
the time,
I'm really not too concerned because (a) my customers don't 
demand UGS
from me right now and (b) the concept of "WiMAX 
interoperability" story
gives me the conclusion that if I really need UGS, I could just 
buy /
upgrade to Brand X system and retain all of my Brand A CPEs 
that I've
deployed.



Now, 6 months later, I've deployed 50 CPE in the field, and 
business is
doing good...so good in fact that 2 customers want to upgrade 
to a
"premium" service that requires features not currently 
supported on Brand
A AP.  Luckily, I have a "WiMAX" system so I go upgrade Brand A 
AP with
Brand X.  Common sense would lead me to believe that Brand X 
would support
all of my CPE's features, plus supporting the enhanced feature 
of UGS that
I

Re: [WISPA] top 10 benefits of Wimax in 3.65ghz - my 2 cents

[Jeff Broadwick]

Paging Patrick Leary!  This would be a great place for some insight.  :-) 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 12:20 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] top 10 benefits of Wimax in 3.65ghz - my 2 cents

Great post.Charles.


What I find funny is The primary WiMax vendors, (Alvarion, redline,
airspan, Aperto, etc) were always the Vendors that tried to sell their
Non-Wimax grear for $10,000 an AP before WImax came to play.  (For example: 
Alvarion still trying to sell unlicensed VL AUs for $6k and 54mb SUs for
$1.5k ) The question I pose is... What is the driving force to price? Is
"Wimax" expensive? Or is it the "system manufactures" that impose the
expensive?  Is WiMax just a buzzward excuse, to help justify why they can
try to get the "price" they want?

I argue that there is not anything functional about WiMax that makes it more
costly to product. Any arguement to justify why it is expensive, is a load
of Crxp.  It doesn't have to be.
(Actually, it does take significantly more processing power, so those
386-100Mhz SBCs are a thing of the past, but proportionally the SBCs and
Chips with fast enough processing power, are inexpensive today.).

I thought it rather interesting to see the N/MIMO mpci cards comming out
(Ubiquitit SR71).  It won't be long before the OEM 4 array antenna N class
APs are on the Towers streets and into Mikrotik and other OEM products,
doing to Wimax, what they did to proprietary unlicensed, driving price down.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message -
From: "Charles Wu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 10:19 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] top 10 benefits of Wimax in 3.65ghz - my 2 cents


> Even thought this thread is a bit old, couldn't help but add my 2 cents 
> (as there seems to be a resurgence of "puff" in this space)
>
>
>
> DISCLAIMER: I am also a vendor of various WiMAX 802.16d systems - so feel 
> free to apply your necessary 'BS' filter
>
>
>
>
>
> Benefits of Wimax in 3.65ghz
>
>
>
> 1. Spectral efficiency ( 4.85 gross bp/hz ) On a six sector
>
> configuration with only 25mhz of spectrum, you can effectively deliver
>
> approx 20mb per sector or 120 mb / per pop, 240 mb when all 50 mhz is
>
> supported. Support for thousands of subscribers is possible off the same
>
> BSU.
>
>
>
> This isn't all too exciting, IMO - there are plenty of systems out there 
> that have similar (if not better) spectral efficiency characteristics as 
> to what the WiMAX 802.16d standard offers...also, with the uncertainties 
> of 3650 licensing, which is, from an interference protection perspective, 
> not that much different that Part-15, higher order modulation schemes 
> don't do much in the presence of noise
>
>
>
> Case in point: Why does everyone keep using Canopy 900 MHz systems when 
> you can get an 802.11a OFDM-based down-converted system that delivers 3-4x

> the throughput?  Well, it's a matter of what's actually going to work in 
> the crowded 900 MHz band.
>
>
>
>
>
> 2. multiple vendor support ( currently you have Redline, Aperto,
>
> Airspan, Alvarion, all with FCC approved equipment )
>
>
>
> The "concept" of interoperability is one of the most "oversold" features 
> of WiMAX which needs to be explained...
>
>
>
> Fictitious Scenario:
>
>
>
> Say I had deployed Brand A system for my business users, and in order to 
> enable VoIP services, I enable a variety of the more advanced MAC features

> (rTP for my VoIP)...I set up a variety of service flows that are 
> customized to each user...blah blah blah
>
>
>
> Problem is, Brand A system, for whatever reason, didn't support UGS and a 
> few esoteric service flow / packet filtering features, but at the time, 
> I'm really not too concerned because (a) my customers don't demand UGS 
> from me right now and (b) the concept of "WiMAX interoperability" story 
> gives me the conclusion that if I really need UGS, I could just buy / 
> upgrade to Brand X system and retain all of my Brand A CPEs that I've 
> deployed.
>
>
>
> Now, 6 months later, I've deployed 50 CPE in the field, and business is 
> doing good...so good in fact that 2 customers want to upgrade to a 
> "premium" service that requires features not currently supported on Brand 
> A AP.  Luckily, I have a "WiMAX" system so I go upgrade Brand A AP with 
> Brand X.  Common sense would lead me to believe that Brand X would support

> all of my CPE's features, plus supporting the enhanced feature of UGS that

> I need
>
>
>
> Sorry, isn't going to work
>
>
>
> As things turn out, the only "interoperability" testing done between Brand

> A CPEs and Brand X APs were done at the Best Effort feature set (basic 
> Ethernet connectivity)...additionally, Rf interoperability was done at a 
> 3.5 MHz channel size, and I've been running Brand A at 10 MHz to maximize 
> my throughput (

Re: [WISPA] Fwd: Dateline NBC Special on TowerDogs

[Victoria Proffer]

In a twist on all the dangerous-job programs viewers have already
> seen, "Tower Dogs" follows an unusual subcontract crew boss: a woman
> named X XXX, a single mom, former cheerleader, and the person
> keeping her tough-guy charges in one piece.


Ha, I wonder if she is an ex-Marine too ... ;-)


On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 11:19 PM, Larry Yunker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> "according to figures cited by OSHA, these so-called tower dogs have the
> highest death rate per capita of any occupation in the country"
>
> OUCH!!! I can just feel the impact on worker's compensation classification
> ratings already!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>



-- 
Victoria Proffer
CEO
St. Louis Broadband
Visit us @
www.StLBroadband.com
314-974-5600



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