Re: How to implement alternate zap key idea
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:22:47 +0100 "David Gerard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > 2008/9/23 Jaymz Julian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > FWIW, I tend to kill X not with ctrl-alt-bs but by going to a non-X > console with ctrl-alt-F2 and sudo pkill Xorg. I suppose that's a bit > Linux/FreeBSD-specific, of course. sshing in from another machine also > works well. Don't forget to define an ACPI action, that does "chvt 1" when you press Fn-F1 (or whatever) for the times, when xscreensaver's password window and qt-pinentry fight for the keyboard grab and the keyboard is stuck. Cheers, harry signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: How to implement alternate zap key idea (was: Re: Poll: Should Xorg change from using Ctrl+Alt+Backspace to something harder for users to press by accident?)
> "Jason" == Jason Spiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Jason> As for the Ctrl+K+X idea (which I don't know is as safe; Jason> 2. is it possible that In emacs: C-x k runs `kill-buffer' a common occurance. C-x C-k runs `edit-kbd-macro' I've often wound up running the second one my mistake because I type fast. I could easily see not pulling the finger off the X key fast enough. So, no key combination really works for everyone, so having a nice way to change it would be great. Or convince distros that DontZAP is the way to go. -- Michael Richardson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Director -- Consumer Desktop Development, Simtone Corporation, Ottawa, Canada Personal: http://www.sandelman.ca/mcr/ SIMtone Corporation fundamentally transforms computing into simple, secure, and very low-cost network-provisioned services pervasively accessible by everyone. Learn more at www.simtone.net and www.SIMtoneVDU.com ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: How to implement alternate zap key idea
2008/9/24 Igor Mozolevsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > 2008/9/24 David Gerard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >> FWIW, I tend to kill X not with ctrl-alt-bs but by going to a non-X >> console with ctrl-alt-F2 and sudo pkill Xorg. I suppose that's a bit >> Linux/FreeBSD-specific, of course. sshing in from another machine also >> works well. > BTW, you can also kill it by switching to the terminal you ran it from > (ctrl+alt+f1 usually) and just ^C-ing the running process... Obv. this > requires you to have started X manually... I use Kubuntu 8.04 with KDE 4.1, which goes straight to a graphical kdm login. KDE 4.1 is still not entirely polished and occasionally forgets where its backside is, so has to be hit over the head. I'd like to do something less drastic than kill X, but haven't found what yet. (I should really get around to hitting the Ubuntu forums.) Note that this is a case of a user having a frequent need to kill X reliably. Sometimes ctrl-alt-bs just doesn't work (evidently it forgets or no longer cares that it's got a keyboard). I also really need to get around to some serious Kubuntu/KDE bug-reporting ... - d. ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: How to implement alternate zap key idea
2008/9/24 David Gerard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > FWIW, I tend to kill X not with ctrl-alt-bs but by going to a non-X > console with ctrl-alt-F2 and sudo pkill Xorg. I suppose that's a bit > Linux/FreeBSD-specific, of course. sshing in from another machine also > works well. BTW, you can also kill it by switching to the terminal you ran it from (ctrl+alt+f1 usually) and just ^C-ing the running process... Obv. this requires you to have started X manually... Cheers, Igor :-) ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: How to implement alternate zap key idea
2008/9/23 Jaymz Julian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Lots of things "shouldn't" happen, with computers. One day, we will > make them bug free. And no-one will ever have to kill X again, or it > won't be the easiest way out at least. Or maybe reboots will be > fast enough to not bother for users. At which point you can > ctrl-alt-del again, but then we'd be having the same discussion > anyhow... FWIW, I tend to kill X not with ctrl-alt-bs but by going to a non-X console with ctrl-alt-F2 and sudo pkill Xorg. I suppose that's a bit Linux/FreeBSD-specific, of course. sshing in from another machine also works well. - d. ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: How to implement alternate zap key idea
On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 10:13 PM, Corbin Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Or, to put it another way, distros should default to "DontZap", except > for Gentoo. :3 I've had to use ctrl+alt+backspace fairly often in the past due to buggy window managers. (I'm looking at you, Enlightenment.) Or due to Gnome or KDE getting halfway through loading a desktop over NFS, then locking up when when the network does something weird. >_< Or when I'm browsing Slashdot, accidentally click a GNAA link, and a bunch of shock images start dancing on my screen ... while I'm in public. (NoScript for Firefox is a good thing!) -- William Tracy [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Vice President, Cal Poly Linux Users' Group http://www.cplug.org ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: How to implement alternate zap key idea
On Mon, Sep 22, 2008 at 10:13:49PM -0700, Corbin Simpson wrote: > We are not talking about a reboot, we are talking about killing, and > optionally restarting, the graphics subsystem. This is not something any > casual user should *ever* have to do. Ever. If somebody *needs* to kill > X using an emergency key combo, and they are not devs, then something is > wrong somewhere down the line. Lots of things "shouldn't" happen, with computers. One day, we will make them bug free. And no-one will ever have to kill X again, or it won't be the easiest way out at least. Or maybe reboots will be fast enough to not bother for users. At which point you can ctrl-alt-del again, but then we'd be having the same discussion anyhow... Needs more elephants. --jj ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: How to implement alternate zap key idea
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jason Spiro wrote: > Plus, due to the psychological effect called "groupthink", people who would > have > said "yes" are now less likely to admit it to the entire list, since IIRC > three > have already said "no" and only one (me) has said "yes". :( Ctrl+K+X may not work on some keyboards. Ctrl+Alt+Z, Ctrl+Alt+A, Ctrl+Alt+P may be a legitimate sequence in some program. We are not talking about a reboot, we are talking about killing, and optionally restarting, the graphics subsystem. This is not something any casual user should *ever* have to do. Ever. If somebody *needs* to kill X using an emergency key combo, and they are not devs, then something is wrong somewhere down the line. Or, to put it another way, distros should default to "DontZap", except for Gentoo. :3 (And Slackware, and Arch, and LFS. Sheesh.) ~ C. - -- ~ Corbin Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkjYew0ACgkQeCCY8PC5utDzDQCdHD8WAk25da2bYerVQiUX1UnZ 5VkAn1xPsLSMnYgqdMJjQMIMTeUgrhxA =p2mD -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
Re: How to implement alternate zap key idea (was: Re: Poll: Should Xorg change from using Ctrl+Alt+Backspace to?something harder for users to press by accident?)
On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 04:39:49AM +, Jason Spiro wrote: > Thanks for the info. 1. So I guess when using evdev, a way to implement my > Ctrl+Alt+Bksp then Ctrl+Alt+Y idea would be this?: Ctrl+Alt+Bksp should latch > some new modifier called ctrl_alt_bksp_was_pressed, and Ctrl+Alt+Y should zap > X > only when that modifier is latched. Would that work? maybe. You'd need to look at XKB's compat capabilities there. Anyway - that's taking the hard way out. your claim was that CAB is too easy to hit. So disable it - it could be easily done at runtime through xkb options. Or put it on ctrl-alt-shift-F12 or something. Alternatively, have a client listen to CAB, load the normal xkb behaviour, pop up a dialog "if you want to kill the server, hit CAB now". (this is just idle thinking) > As for the Ctrl+K+X idea (which I don't know is as safe; AFAIK, XKB will only handle combinations with modifiers. sequential key combos must be done in a client. > 2. is it possible that a heavy pet sitting on the keyboard and depressing all > keys at once could cause > X to think Ctrl+K+X was pressed?), yes. and those users with a pet octopus better choose a 9-key combo. Ha, serves them octopodiformes right for having 2 fingers less than us! There is a thing such as cost/effort. stop your pet sitting on the keyboard, or disable zap. > 3. are kbd and evdev each able to detect such a key combination? both are designed to handle key events - yes. > 4. Are the majority of PS/2 and USB keyboards able to transmit such three-key > combos reliably? they are designed to handle keyboard entry - yes. > 5. Do most users know how to press multi-letter key combinations? Depends on your definition of "most" and of "users". I know a fair few that would go looking for a post box when you start talking about multi-letter combinations. Cheers, Peter ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
How to implement alternate zap key idea (was: Re: Poll: Should Xorg change from using Ctrl+Alt+Backspace to something harder for users to press by accident?)
Peter Hutterer who-t.net> wrote: > > driver kbd: hardcodes Ctrl + Alt + Backspace. (IMHO that's a bug anyway) > driver evdev: the XKB map decides what happens. > > In the latter case, all you have to do is change the xkb map. If you can > convice svu to add it to xkeyboard-config, you only need to supply the right > option and you're done with it. Thanks for the info. 1. So I guess when using evdev, a way to implement my Ctrl+Alt+Bksp then Ctrl+Alt+Y idea would be this?: Ctrl+Alt+Bksp should latch some new modifier called ctrl_alt_bksp_was_pressed, and Ctrl+Alt+Y should zap X only when that modifier is latched. Would that work? As for the Ctrl+K+X idea (which I don't know is as safe; 2. is it possible that a heavy pet sitting on the keyboard and depressing all keys at once could cause X to think Ctrl+K+X was pressed?), 3. are kbd and evdev each able to detect such a key combination? 4. Are the majority of PS/2 and USB keyboards able to transmit such three-key combos reliably? 5. Do most users know how to press multi-letter key combinations? > I'm not quite sure what the poll will achieve here. I was hoping it could provide extra backing for my assertion that Control-Alt-Backspace is a bad choice of key combination. In fact, it hasn't. Plus, due to the psychological effect called "groupthink", people who would have said "yes" are now less likely to admit it to the entire list, since IIRC three have already said "no" and only one (me) has said "yes". :( ___ xorg mailing list xorg@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/xorg
