[ZION] Monitoring force for Cote d'Ivoire encounters difficulties
Since this was an issue of interest here some time ago, I thought I'd share a headline from this week's Jane's Defence. ECOWAS was a peacekeeping force agreed to by the Yamossoukro government and the rebels. The rebels have since broken the ceasefire. Monitoring force for Cote d'Ivoire encounters difficulties A number of problems, including the lack of a force commander and a failure to reach troop levels, are undermining the full deployment of the projected 1,500-strong Economic Community of West African States (ECOWAS) force to Cote d'Ivoire, ECOWAS officials have told Jane's Defence Weekly. -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
[ZION] Coffee, tea or eternity?
The Lord tells us he doesn't/shouldn't have to command in all things. The WoW is written for the weakest of saints. It is the minimum standard for us to live by. As members mature, they tend to seek higher levels of spirituality, and will often, through the Spirit, create their own personal commandments. Why do so many members not drink caffeine drinks? Because the Spirit has guided them to that decision. It becomes personally binding on them, but not on others who are not prepared. The gospel is like this in many things. The commandments give us minimum compliance, and then the Spirit teaches us the higher things. This way, we don't need to be slothful servants: commanded in all things. Do I need the bishop to instruct me in every service project I am involved in? Of course not. I should actively seek opportunities to do good works, whether in the church or out. Do I pay just a tithe? Or do I consecrate more of my funds by paying a very generous fast offering? No one commands me just what amount I should pay for fast and other offerings. I follow what the Spirit guides me to do. So it is with the WoW. We grow in it as we grow in the Spirit. K'aya K'ama, Gerald/gary Smithgszion1 @juno.comhttp://www .geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who thinks he's free. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Stacy, If the recommendations were changed to not include caffeine, why not, since we know the following about it? I read or heard on the radio that caffeine takes calcium from the bones. If this is true, it seems likely that it should be included. Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Why we are not worried
I didn't say it wouldn't be hard to find John Candy [and the real joke in the movie, which I don't think ever was explained, was that no one here calls it Canadian bacon -- it's just back bacon, that's all. Just like French fries in French are just pommes frites and the American flu in the U.S. is just called the Republican Party...]] Gary Smith wrote: We didn't have any problem finding it in Canadian Bacon! Why, if John Candy were still around, you'd be in trouble. K'aya K'ama, Gerald/gary Smithgszion1 @juno.comhttp://www .geocities.com/rameumptom/index.html No one is as hopelessly enslaved as the person who thinks he's free. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Marc: ...about a U.S. invasion. As the old joke goes, you'd have to find us first: Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] No Desire to discuss what is forbidden
Gary Smith wrote: Well there are two more things that haven't found their way into the charter. First, to become a permanent member of the list, you have to fill out a survey which you should be receiving any day now from Jim Cobabe. Second, there is a tendency once in a while on this list for it to collapse into a giant virtual foodfight. Most food stuffs are permitted, however green jello and green grits are only to be used by people with proper permits on their person. Note that Marc Schindler is not allowed to carry anything at this time or be in any foodfights (doctor's orders), as he has the tendency to do strange things when hit in the head with anything harder than toothpaste. Even toothpaste if it's more than 2 days old. BTW, I'm almost moved out of the house, and haven't deep cleaned the rugs yet, so if anyone is going to have a food fight at my house, you'd better get it over with before Tuesday John's arriving here sometime this afternoon. We don't have grits at our local SuperStore so he and Becky'll be getting chicken rice curry this evening.Stacy: Guys and gals, I finally read the charter just now. I found out, to my utter delight, that I haven't violated any charter rules, nor did I ever have a desire to discuss such topics as are forbidden by charter rules. It seems as though I have already been obeying charter rules without even knowing it! What a delight to find out that the charter rules are not contrary to my own human nature and convention. Well, you're no fun! One of the *unwritten* rules is that you have to have received at least one sterning from either Gary or JWR to retain your membership. -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
[ZION] More tales of friendly fire
Several JTF2 units have been rotated out of Afghanistan, specifically two sniper units, 6-3-Alpha A and 6-3-Alpha B. They have some interesting stories about sharing their sleeping positions (they didn't have bags, they just slept with plant and sand camouflage) with scorpions and snakes, but the worst thing they faced was US Apache helicopters, who sometimes mistook them for Taliban. But their successes made a big difference, along with those of their US and British counterparts. 6-3-Alpha's motto is one shot, one kill, and they have modified rifles that shoot steel-jacketed extra-powerful rounds that can pierce even light armour (including kevlar bulletproof shields). 2250 metres was the previous military distance kill record, set in Vietnam (official; obviously many covert successes don't make it into the book) but a Newfoundland MCpl made a 2430 m kill in Afghanistan that is apparently now the world record. The Taliban never even knew he was in anyone's scopes, and wouldn't even have heard the shot before he died. Each unit consisted of 3 men, and Mike Smith of the CBC interviewed them for an item on the news this morning (5 of them, actually -- a 6th member was seconded to them from the US Special Forces in an exchange program. Naturally he got nicknamed Zee which, I understand, is a popular brand of toilet paper in the US...). -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
[ZION] Science dissonance
http://www.nature.com/nsu/02/02-7.html Plant biologists discuss ways that organisms in the plant world appear to mimic the forms of insect life as a beneficial adaptation. These features are common enough in the plant world to merit a lot of consideration from the evolutionist's philosophy. In order to support a completely naturalistic theory that accounts for species diversity, the mechanism by which such features arise in an organism must necessarily be a fortuitous accident. As I understand the thinking, random chance accounts for changes in the genetic potential of plant organisms, which may result in expression of traits, which then could possibly happen to prove advantageous to the survivability of that organism. Since there is at least immediately a particular advantage for this adapted plant, it competes more effectively in it's own environmental niche, and reproduces more abundantly than relatively less fit competitors. This shift in the ecological balance results in perpetuating the beneficial trait. It is problematic, however, to refer to such a tenuous probability when looking at specific examples of adaptation that are so marvellously elegant and intricate, even so ingeneously implemented as to effectively merit the admiration of human biologists. In the article cited, the scientists marvel about various forms of mimicry as though these clever plants might blush from praise. Yet obviously, these plants came to adopt such incredible forms merely by chance. No intelligent agent is needed to account for plants that so effectively mimic insects. These scientists unwittingly introduce anthropocentric attributions in their descriptions of plants that mimic insects. To mimic or imitate necessarily seems to imply intelligent direction. Plants have no innate intelligence that science can detect, nor does there seem to be any tenet of evolutionary theory that would explain what force would direct plants to develop such artfully explicit renderings of insects or animals. --- Mij Ebaboc // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] National Geographic poll
For those who have heard about how geography-dumb 18-24 year olds are, here's more comprehensive coverage than appeared yesterday on either Roper's or the National Geographic Society's webpage: (we Canadians have nothing to brag about -- only that we're, er, not 2nd last...) :-/ http://www.globeandmail.ca/servlet/GIS.Servlets.HTMLTemplate?current_row=1tf=tgam/search/tgam/SearchFullStory.htmlcf=tgam/search/tgam/SearchFullStory.cfgconfigFileLoc=tgam/configencoded_keywords=college-ageoption=start_row=1start_row_offset1=num_rows=1search_results_start=1query=college-age -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
RE: [ZION] Something else to ponder
My regular diatribe on this question-- Those of us who now need or have needed psychotrophic drugs for personal maintenance face serious enough challenges in life, without having to contend with unqualified people who presume to know all about our illnesses and afflictions. And sadly, there is no end to the stigma attached to any manifestation of mental illness. In spite of all the talk denying that such unfair discrimination exists, anyone who has been there has probably found himself more tightly restrained than by any strong guys in white coats, strait jackets, or padded rooms. When we need drugs to sustain our lives, a chemical that restores balance to the physical function of the brain is not different from the insulin that allows a diabetic to supplement the insufficient function of his pancreas. There are any number of additional parallels. Yet sufferers from mental illness are still a special class of people in our society, reserved for generally unwarranted special treatment, and generally unfavorable discrimination. Please never attempt to discourage anyone from taking the drugs that are in the current array of defenses against mental illness. Many of these drugs have unpleasant side effects that we would just as soon not have to deal with. Even more important, we inflict the shame of stigma upon our own selves, and taking medicine for such an illness seems like admitting to yourself that you're something less than an worthy person. Yet these drugs might well help some of us make something hopeful and worthwhile from a life that would otherwise languish and be wasted in despair. If you need such drugs, don't let anyone discourage you from taking them as directed by your doctor. Always remember to take your pills on schedule. Remember too that we are not alone in bearing such burdens, and don't be discouraged by the idle talk of people that don't understand your problems. We do what we must to survive, and face another day. To endure to the end is our mission. Even if it takes a few pills to help us get by. --- Mij Ebaboc // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Coffee, tea or eternity?
Gary wisely wrote: Why do so many members not drink caffeine drinks? Because the Spirit has guided them to that decision. It becomes personally binding on them, but not on others who are not prepared. I agree. slurp ;-) Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Does America need to be destroyed
Gary favored us all with: There clearly is a symbolic level to the marks. But often there are both physical and spiritual parts of a symbol. Babylon, for example, is an actual city in antiquity. It also symbolically represents the telestial world, built on greed and power. Although not all the wicked may have the physical mark on their hands/foreheads, it is possible that many will; while all will have the spiritual mark of Babylon/Satan on them. I believe we will see a physical mark put into place in Europe before long, as part of the EU. One thing my dad taught to me (and is confirmed in the Book of Mormon - see Alma 3:13-19) was that people who are disobeying the commandments of God typically mark themselves. It could be in the way that they dress, piercings, tatoos, or any number of ways. He explained that while he was on his mission in Germany during the late 60's (early 70's), he and his companion found and began teaching a man and woman the Gospel. They were both decked out in the style of the time, with the woman wearing clothing that were not modest, and they were both unkept and dirty. While the man was not interested in the message, the woman was, and as she progressed through the discussions the woman's appearance began to change. She did away with the fashion of the day, cleaned herself up, and dressed modestly. She felt the Spirit and was converted. The missionaries never mentioned to her that she needed to change her dressing habits, but she was taught what she needed by the Spirit. She was eventually baptized. Perhaps this is why the Brethren insist that we dress modestly, avoid the fads of the day, and be clean in appearance. Perhaps it is so we can let [our] light so shine before men, that they may see [our] good works, and glorify [our] Father which is in heaven. (Matt. 5:16) Perhaps this is one of the ways that we mark ourselves unto righteousness and show the world that we are the servants of Christ. What do you think? Your brother, Geoff -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Something else to ponder
Gary: The Church's official position is that we should use some caution with medications for mental illness. However, it has drastically backed off from some statements made by General Authorities even 20 years or less ago. Elder Packer had a speech (Be Ye Not Troubled), where he warned about the overuse of psychiatrists and medications. I haven't heard him warn about it in many years, though. Part of this may have to do with the drastic change in medical developments over the past couple decades. Older drugs used to paralyze emotions, while today's drugs are more effective in just moderating them. Dan: This very subject came up in a meeting I attended recently, and a statistic was thrown out that I found rather shocking: 40% of missionaries from North America are supposably on Ritalyn. Has anyone else heard this? // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
[ZION] No Redelfs Citings?
Wonder why you aren't seeing any posts from our BLT? It's because he's on his international tour. Did you forget or what? Last night John and his daughter Becky stayed at our house and then this morning I went to a temple session with them before pointing them north and wishing them well for the rest of their trip back to Alaska. They should be in Edmonton around the supper hour where they will hook up with one or both of the Marx brothers, I think, before veering to the west. Tom // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] No Redelfs Citings?
Marx brothers, I think, before veering to the west. Ha ha ha ah .Good one! Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] Something else to ponder
Jim Cobabe wrote: My regular diatribe on this question-- Those of us who now need or have needed psychotrophic drugs for personal maintenance face serious enough challenges in life, without having to contend with unqualified people who presume to know all about our illnesses and afflictions. And sadly, there is no end to the stigma attached to any manifestation of mental illness. In spite of all the talk denying that such unfair discrimination exists, anyone who has been there has probably found himself more tightly restrained than by any strong guys in white coats, strait jackets, or padded rooms. Well said. I call these well-meaning critics Job's Comforters. My least favourite (although, again, they're just trying to help) are those who insist that I try the latest non-technological fad, be it Tahitian berries or special massages, and when I tell them I've tried traditional medicine, their response is 100% predictable: but this one's new and it WORKS! I've never learned how to respond tactfully. When we need drugs to sustain our lives, a chemical that restores balance to the physical function of the brain is not different from the insulin that allows a diabetic to supplement the insufficient function of his pancreas. There are any number of additional parallels. Yet sufferers from mental illness are still a special class of people in our society, reserved for generally unwarranted special treatment, and generally unfavorable discrimination. Please never attempt to discourage anyone from taking the drugs that are in the current array of defenses against mental illness. Many of these drugs have unpleasant side effects that we would just as soon not have to deal with. Even more important, we inflict the shame of stigma upon our own selves, and taking medicine for such an illness seems like admitting to yourself that you're something less than an worthy person. Yet these drugs might well help some of us make something hopeful and worthwhile from a life that would otherwise languish and be wasted in despair. If you need such drugs, don't let anyone discourage you from taking them as directed by your doctor. Always remember to take your pills on schedule. Remember too that we are not alone in bearing such burdens, and don't be discouraged by the idle talk of people that don't understand your problems. We do what we must to survive, and face another day. To endure to the end is our mission. Even if it takes a few pills to help us get by. --- Mij Ebaboc // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
RE: [ZION] Something else to ponder
Dan R Allen wrote: --- This very subject came up in a meeting I attended recently, and a statistic was thrown out that I found rather shocking: 40% of missionaries from North America are supposably on Ritalyn. Has anyone else heard this? --- It seems more likely that this report is conflated with other legitimate concerns. It is widely reported that Ritalin is popular for prescription drug abuse on college campuses. http://www.cnn.com/2001/HEALTH/children/01/08/college.ritalin/; I would need to see more substantive information sources to think that Ritalin would be so widely prescribed for young missionaries. And based on my own observation, I seriously doubt that illegal drug use is a widespread problem among Church missionaries. --- Mij Ebaboc // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: [ZION] No Redelfs Citings?
No Redelfs Citings? That's a good thing, actually. First, we wouldn't expect our fine upstanding BLT to be cited by anyone as he cruises northward on his whirlwind international tour. A citation would certainly be an indication of a lack of moderation in all things, and not just the temporary lack of a Moderator in this Zion List thing. Second, elves shouldn't be red. Right, Till? Larry Jackson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: [ZION] No Redelfs Citings?
Marc, the francized German tonight, and then we hand 'em off to Mark the Scandihoovian tomorrow afternoon, and they'll be out in the boondocks in Onoway tomorrow night, then Sunday they're off for Prince Rupert via Jasper and Prince George. Tom Matkin wrote: Wonder why you aren't seeing any posts from our BLT? It's because he's on his international tour. Did you forget or what? Last night John and his daughter Becky stayed at our house and then this morning I went to a temple session with them before pointing them north and wishing them well for the rest of their trip back to Alaska. They should be in Edmonton around the supper hour where they will hook up with one or both of the Marx brothers, I think, before veering to the west. Tom -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Science dissonance
Jim Cobabe wrote: http://www.nature.com/nsu/02/02-7.html Plant biologists discuss ways that organisms in the plant world appear to mimic the forms of insect life as a beneficial adaptation. These features are common enough in the plant world to merit a lot of consideration from the evolutionist's philosophy. In order to support a completely naturalistic theory that accounts for species diversity, the mechanism by which such features arise in an organism must necessarily be a fortuitous accident. Define fortuitous. In evolution it's known as survival of the fittest. This article does not report anything that's new as far as *evolution* is concerned. If you'd like to discuss it further, I suggest going to Eyring-L. As I understand the thinking, random chance accounts for changes in the genetic potential of plant organisms, which may result in expression of traits, which then could possibly happen to prove advantageous to the survivability of that organism. Since there is at least immediately a particular advantage for this adapted plant, it competes more effectively in it's own environmental niche, and reproduces more abundantly than relatively less fit competitors. This shift in the ecological balance results in perpetuating the beneficial trait. It is problematic, however, to refer to such a tenuous probability when looking at specific examples of adaptation that are so marvellously elegant and intricate, even so ingeneously implemented as to effectively merit the admiration of human biologists. Why? Admiration is in the eye of the beholder. In the article cited, the scientists marvel about various forms of mimicry as though these clever plants might blush from praise. Yet obviously, these plants came to adopt such incredible forms merely by chance. No intelligent agent is needed to account for plants that so effectively mimic insects. Mimicry is a well-established and well-defined term in biology. This is hardly the first such example. Think of a walking stick insect, for example. These scientists unwittingly introduce anthropocentric attributions in their descriptions of plants that mimic insects. To mimic or imitate necessarily seems to imply intelligent direction. Plants have no innate intelligence that science can detect, nor does there seem to be any tenet of evolutionary theory that would explain what force would direct plants to develop such artfully explicit renderings of insects or animals. The anthropocentricity is in your reading of the description. Note, too, that what you are quoting is a news item, not the actual article, which appears in the September 2002 of The Biological Journal of the Linnaen Society. --- Mij Ebaboc -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] More tales of friendly fire
The last letter of the alphabet deserves a Jehovistically dignified name, after all Canada, from eh to zed, by Charlie Farquharson Rick Mathis wrote: At 09:48 AM 11/21/2002 -0700, Marc wrote: Naturally he got nicknamed Zee which, I understand, is a popular brand of toilet paper in the US...). Properly referred to as zed of course. -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on Winston Churchill Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the authors employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
Re: [ZION] Does America need to be destroyed
Gary, Well I guess time will tell which one of us is more correct. I would respond in more detail but I just got back from surgery (Ouch! Where are my pain pills?) so I hope you'll forgive me for not responding in more detail. -- Steven Montgomery At 09:38 AM 11/21/2002, you wrote: Steven: I used to believe that the mark of the beast certainly referred to an intrusive, all powerful government, which held its subjects in economic bondage, by forcing them to submit to some kind of microchip implant or in some other manner with the number of the beast. As I've studied Revelation further however I've changed my views. Here is why: Gary: I agree with much of your premises, but believe there will be a major government involved. I don't think it will control all the world, but mainly the Old World. In the New World will be another major government emerge, called Zion. Steven: One of the overarching themes of the Book of Revelations deals with the victory that Jesus Christ and the righteous have over Satan, Babylon and mankind's twin nemesis, both Spiritual and Physical Death. The righteous, we are informed by Revelations 15:2 are those who gain victory over the Beast and thus qualify to live on this earth in its Celestial Glory. Gary: I believe you mean a Terrestrial Glory, as the earth will not become celestialized until at the end of the Millennium. It is highly possible that the righteous with the mark of Christ are not just celestial beings, but also the terrestrial. Steven: It's interesting to note that those who accept Christ and overcome Satan are sealed up unto eternal life by having Christ's name written on their foreheads (see Rev. 7:3 and 22:4). Under the law of Moses the Israelites were commanded to wear phylacteries on their hands or frontlets upon their foreheads which were little boxes that contained certain scriptures written inside them as a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the Lord's law may be in thy mouth or in other words that the righteous were to treasure up the words of Christ in their heart and soul and to physically bind these items on their hands or foreheads as a sign of this fact (see Exodus 13:9,16; Deut. 6:8; 11:18). Gary: There clearly is a symbolic level to the marks. But often there are both physical and spiritual parts of a symbol. Babylon, for example, is an actual city in antiquity. It also symbolically represents the telestial world, built on greed and power. Although not all the wicked may have the physical mark on their hands/foreheads, it is possible that many will; while all will have the spiritual mark of Babylon/Satan on them. I believe we will see a physical mark put into place in Europe before long, as part of the EU. Steven: Satan, as the great counterfeiter, also seals his followers with a mark in their hand or forehead. But what is this mark and what does it represent? Is it an actual physical mark or merely symbolic? What characterizes those who have the mark? Gary: As I said, it is both physical and symbolic in nature. Steven: As a result of the fall of Adam and without the atonement of Jesus Christ, man is carnal sensual and devilish. Thus Satan causes ALL, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond to receive his mark in their right hand or in their forehead. Since this is a mark which affects all mankind it clearly cannot be an actual physical one. It is symbolic. Thus It represents man in his mortal state and without the atonement of Jesus Christ, who truly cannot buy or sell without the mark of Satan (see Rev. 13:16-18; 14:1, 9-11; 17:5). Gary: I fail to see your hard evidence that it is solely symbolic. Combining scriptural quotes from the BoM with Revelation does not mean you have proved your point. Members of the Church are marked both physically and symbolically with garments. Would you suggest that the garments aren't real? People are marked all the time by machines, and are tracked every time they use a credit card (held in the hand). I personally believe the physical mark is a special economic bank code that will be used to prevent fraud. The EU is growing quickly, with reluctant nations being forced into the economy if they wish to trade freely with the other nations of Europe. As John the Revelator sees all mankind getting the mark, he may be exaggerating the extent of the physical mark, in order to show the widespread symbolic mark being used. Steven: It is also significant to note in Rev. 14:9-11, that those who thus follow Satan and receive his mark on their forehead or hand, suffer the wrath of God, are tormented with fire and brimstone, and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever--quite a punishment just for accepting a mark for food, as the christian fundamentalists believe, especially if one did so without knowledge or innocently! Reading these scriptures in context just doesn't bear this viewpoint up. It should be obvious that the punishment mentioned
Re: [ZION] More tales of friendly fire
At 10:48 AM 11/21/02, Marc A. Schindler wrote: Several JTF2 units have been rotated out of Afghanistan, specifically two sniper units, 6-3-Alpha A and 6-3-Alpha B. They have some interesting stories about sharing their sleeping positions (they didn't have bags, they just slept with plant and sand camouflage) Gillie suits? with scorpions and snakes, but the worst thing they faced was US Apache helicopters, who sometimes mistook them for Taliban. But their successes made a big difference, along with those of their US and British counterparts. 6-3-Alpha's motto is one shot, one kill, and they have modified rifles that shoot steel-jacketed extra-powerful rounds that can pierce even light armour (including kevlar bulletproof shields). Is that the .50-caliber sniper rifle? (I don't know the official metric designation, but .5 inch = 12.7 mm, if that helps.) Many nights, I am the last person in the building after class ends at 9 pm and I have to put away the lab and audiovisual equipment I've used, and frequently I'm still there when whichever campus police officer got that particular duty for that night comes around to lock up the building, and, if neither of us is in a hurry, sometimes we talk for a few minutes. One night the sergeant told me that he had done something the past weekend that he thought I would have enjoyed¹: he had gone to a tactical workshop where he had been trained to fire that .50-caliber sniper rifle. _ ¹FWIW, what he meant was that I would have enjoyed the challenge of trying to hit a _target_ the size of a man's head a mile and a half away. So far, I have never pointed a weapon at a human being, much less fired one, and, God willing, I never will have any need to . . . although I did earn an expert rating with a pistol, so long as I am shooting at a man made of heavy paper . . . 2250 metres was the previous military distance kill record, set in Vietnam (official; obviously many covert successes don't make it into the book) but a Newfoundland MCpl made a 2430 m kill in Afghanistan that is apparently now the world record. The Taliban never even knew he was in anyone's scopes, and wouldn't even have heard the shot before he died. Each unit consisted of 3 men, and Mike Smith of the CBC interviewed them for an item on the news this morning (5 of them, actually -- a 6th member was seconded to them from the US Special Forces in an exchange program. Naturally he got nicknamed Zee which, I understand, is a popular brand of toilet paper in the US...). --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^^=== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===
