Re: the importance of defaults (was: Debian default desktop environment)

previously on this list Cesare Leonardi contributed: > On 12/04/2014 12:23, alberto fuentes wrote: > > While i like Xfce, my current DE, the thing i worry most is that it > seems almost stagnant: the latest release (4.10) was from 2 years ago > and from the Xfce main site and blog i see no ad

Re: Debian default desktop environment

Mario Lang writes: > Jonathan Dowland writes: > >> We go over the same ground over and over. I'm increasingly in favour of *no* >> default. You must pick one from a list on install. Randomize the list if >> necessary. > > The day Debian starts to randomize menu items I am going to stop using > it

Re: Debian default desktop environment

Jonathan Dowland writes: > We go over the same ground over and over. I'm increasingly in favour of *no* > default. You must pick one from a list on install. Randomize the list if > necessary. The day Debian starts to randomize menu items I am going to stop using it. -- CYa, ⡍⠁⠗⠊⠕ | Debian De

Re: the importance of defaults (was: Debian default desktop environment)

On 12/04/2014 12:23, alberto fuentes wrote: xfce4 felt like a less polished gnome2 but at least it didn't disrupt my workflow. JFYI, it's not ready yet in Debian but MATE is advancing and looks promising for those who still miss Gnome2. Recently a number of packages entered in unstable (caja,

Re: the importance of defaults (was: Debian default desktop environment)

On Sat, Apr 12, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: >> Some numbers with my free interpretation from ubuntu popcon: >> unity is installed in 605_209 machines, but its used regularly only by >> 46_210 >> >> Thats a very low number by all metrics for a default desktop [0]. >> People dislike it.

Re: the importance of defaults (was: Debian default desktop environment)

Em 12-04-2014 08:15, Jonas Smedegaard escreveu: Quoting alberto fuentes (2014-04-12 12:23:46) I had to leave gnome with gnome3 because it disrupted my workflow so much i couldn't cope In my case I like shiny but not at the cost of useful. xfce4 felt like a less polished gnome2 but at least it

Re: the importance of defaults (was: Debian default desktop environment)

Quoting alberto fuentes (2014-04-12 12:23:46) > I had to leave gnome with gnome3 because it disrupted my workflow so > much i couldn't cope > > In my case I like shiny but not at the cost of useful. > > xfce4 felt like a less polished gnome2 but at least it didn't disrupt > my workflow. I am i

the importance of defaults (was: Debian default desktop environment)

tl;dr go to [0] On Thu, Apr 10, 2014 at 1:06 PM, Ghislain Vaillant wrote: > My vote would be on GNOME 3 classic for now, but XFCE with sensible and > visually appealing defaults would do it for me too. You are all facing different experiences with end-users because end-users are probably differe

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On Fri, 4 Apr 2014 10:55:16 -0300 Undefined User wrote: > Perfect solution. > > Debian installer should provide you information about desktop environments > and let the user choose it. +1 -- http://markorandjelovic.hopto.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On 2014-04-07 12:00:20 +0200 (+0200), Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > Quoting Gergely Nagy (2014-04-07 11:10:27) > > Can we have ratpoison + selected things as default DE for Debian Zurg? > > Please? Pretty please? With sugar on top? > > First, create a metapackage, and maintain it. > > Then when gett

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On Wed, 2014-04-09 at 12:56 +0100, Ian Jackson wrote: > Ghislain Vaillant writes ("Re: Debian default desktop environment"): > > Users do care about visual identity (or call it brand > > recognition if you like), and currently XFCE in Debian does not have > > any, I

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On Wed, Apr 09, 2014 at 10:50:11AM +0100, Ghislain Vaillant wrote: > IMHO, GNOME 3 in *classic mode* get it right. I use it daily and only > got positive comments from other Linux and non-Linux users. FYI, the DE > popularity in my lab is split between Unity (ahead by far), GNOME and > KDE. None of

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On Wed, 9 Apr 2014 13:04:09 -0500 Gunnar Wolf wrote: > Each of us will have different anecdotary evidence pushing the opinion > one way or the other. We cannot please everyody with a single DE, and > that's (part of) the reason there are so many. I can speak you of the > users I switched over tha

Re: Debian default desktop environment

William Ivanski dijo [Wed, Apr 09, 2014 at 02:57:14PM -0300]: > (...) > My father doesn't have experience with computers, he only use it for Office > and Internet. I suggested him to switch to Linux and he agreed. So I wiped > out Windows from his computer and put Debian Wheezy with KDE. He started

Re: Debian default desktop environment

2014-04-09 13:32 GMT-03:00 Sven Bartscher < sven.bartsc...@weltraumschlangen.de>: > On Tue, 08 Apr 2014 23:10:13 -0300 > converge wrote: > > > The point is: is all this effort pointing to the future of linux > > desktop, or is it just some workaround to try to make users a bit happy > > for now ?

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On Tue, 08 Apr 2014 23:10:13 -0300 converge wrote: > The point is: is all this effort pointing to the future of linux > desktop, or is it just some workaround to try to make users a bit happy > for now ? > > The truth is that linux still doesn't have a competidor for windows and > mac window

Re: Debian default desktop environment

Ghislain Vaillant writes ("Re: Debian default desktop environment"): > Users do care about visual identity (or call it brand > recognition if you like), and currently XFCE in Debian does not have > any, I am afraid. My experiences with less-sophisticated users are the opposite.

Re: Debian default desktop environment

Just tossing my experience and personal opinion as a Linux user. On Thu, 2014-08-28 at 14:40 +0100, Kevin Chadwick wrote: > previously on this list Bálint Réczey contributed: > > > Xfce is friendly enough, but it feels old compared to Gnome 3 and I > > would like to attract new users before convi

Re: Debian default desktop environment

The point is: is all this effort pointing to the future of linux desktop, or is it just some workaround to try to make users a bit happy for now ? The truth is that linux still doesn't have a competidor for windows and mac window manager and we should care about it. Em 28/08/14 14:09, Kevin

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On Tue, Apr 08, 2014 at 01:21:01PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: > I am a techie user using Awesome, so my judgement is flawed too. As is > most of us in this discussion, I suspect. > > Recently a [Debian design team] was initiated, and work is ongoing to > make a Debian Blend for designers.

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On Tue, Apr 08, 2014 at 07:24:47AM +, Sune Vuorela wrote: > On 2014-04-05, Josselin Mouette wrote: > > Especially one as minor as the installation CD which has no actual > > conceivable use today. > > At least I don't think that anything 86xish that can't boot from a usb > stick is wihtin wha

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On 08/04/2014 20:35, Paul Tagliamonte wrote: >> Remember all the hype that arose when Beryl was announced, with >> per-window transparency settings, the rotating cube, wobbly windows, >> and all that. It was flashy, and I do think it made some heads turn to >> Linux, previously perceived as plainly

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On Tue, Apr 08, 2014 at 12:46:59PM -0500, Gunnar Wolf wrote: > Hear, hear. > > Remember all the hype that arose when Beryl was announced, with > per-window transparency settings, the rotating cube, wobbly windows, > and all that. It was flashy, and I do think it made some heads turn to > Linux, p

Re: Debian default desktop environment

Kevin Chadwick dijo [Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 02:40:39PM +0100]: > I think you are reflecting a subset of users priorities. I've switched > users from desktop to desktop and they don't care a jot about > flashiness in fact many like simple but pretty which is perfectly > do-able with almost any window

Re: Debian default desktop environment

previously on this list Jean-Christophe Dubacq contributed: > > I am talking about focus follows mouse but raise only on clicking say > > the border or bar, you can still enter text into any layered windows > > that have focus. So you can quickly switch for entry to or from web > > pages on one sc

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On 28/08/2014 15:39, Kevin Chadwick wrote: > I am talking about focus follows mouse but raise only on clicking say > the border or bar, you can still enter text into any layered windows > that have focus. So you can quickly switch for entry to or from web > pages on one screen or read a web page in

Re: Debian default desktop environment

]] Mike Hommey > If only focus-follows-mouse in GNOME didn't have so much latency... I suspect you might be victim of focus-change-on-pointer-rest being true by default. gsettings set org.gnome.shell.overrides focus-change-on-pointer-rest false fixes this. At least I don't have any latency on

Re: Debian default desktop environment

]] John Paul Adrian Glaubitz > And without a kvm, I'd have to run to the server room each time the > hardware crashes hard or similar problems. Or you could just have a serial console and a networked power switch. Those can at least be replaced when they are compromised, unlike many BMCs. -- T

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On 28.08.2014 15:40, Kevin Chadwick wrote: > what they hate is > > a) things moving too much that they can't find > > b) not being able to do what they want or things disappearing c) things they are not used to (like different usage concepts) -- Stephan Heidinger PGP-Key: 6853A18E http://www.

Re: Debian default desktop environment

previously on this list Bálint Réczey contributed: > Xfce is friendly enough, but it feels old compared to Gnome 3 and I > would like to attract new users before convincing them. It is much > easier than in the opposite order. :-) I think you are reflecting a subset of users priorities. I've swit

Re: Debian default desktop environment

previously on this list people contributed: > but that doesn't change the fact that ffm with autoraise > works in gnome3. >> GNOME 3 is based on Mutter which has, AFAICT, all features Metacity >> (GNOME 2) used to provide. The focus settings are not shown in the >> control center, but you can use

Re: Debian default desktop environment

Quoting Bálint Réczey (2014-04-08 12:09:55) > 2014-04-03 23:18 GMT+02:00 Dmitry Smirnov : >> On Thu, 3 Apr 2014 14:16:15 Undefined User wrote: >>> The problem is that right now Debian project is changing its default >>> desktop environment, and I think that this is not a good move. Of >>> course,

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On 04/08/2014 01:51 AM, Russ Allbery wrote: > And, of course, non-free software from top to bottom. Not the case of Supermicro: free software, in outdated (and unsafe) versions, from top to bottom, and impossible for the customer to rebuild anything. I wonder if they will one day understand the p

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On Tue, Apr 08, 2014 at 11:53:21AM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote: > Le lundi 07 avril 2014 à 23:55 +0100, Wookey a écrit : > > +++ Kevin Chadwick [2014-08-27 20:55 +0100]: > > > It also supports focus follows mouse, no raise on click > > > > I had forgotten, but this was the 'killer feature' tha

Re: Debian default desktop environment

Hi Dmitry, 2014-04-03 23:18 GMT+02:00 Dmitry Smirnov : > On Thu, 3 Apr 2014 14:16:15 Undefined User wrote: >> The problem is that right now Debian project is changing its default >> desktop environment, and I think that this is not a good move. Of course, >> it all depends on where the project is

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On 04/08/2014 02:36 AM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote: > No need to be rude about that, ok? I've re-read my posts about a dozen time, and I fail to see which part you thought was rude. Thomas -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". T

Re: Debian default desktop environment

Le lundi 07 avril 2014 à 23:55 +0100, Wookey a écrit : > +++ Kevin Chadwick [2014-08-27 20:55 +0100]: > > It also supports focus follows mouse, no raise on click > > I had forgotten, but this was the 'killer feature' that originally > switched me to XFCE, and to a significant degree keeps me the

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On Mon, Apr 07, 2014 at 11:55:02PM +0100, Wookey wrote: > +++ Kevin Chadwick [2014-08-27 20:55 +0100]: > > It also supports focus follows mouse, no raise on click > > I had forgotten, but this was the 'killer feature' that originally > switched me to XFCE, and to a significant degree keeps me the

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On Mon, Apr 07, 2014 at 05:24:09PM +0200, Alex Mestiashvili wrote: > > > >My mother is using Debian 6 with Gnome 2. I don’t know if I will ever > >update this system. Gnome 3 is not a solution, and I’m not interested in > >teaching XFCE. > > > >Shade and sweet water! > > > > Stephan > > > > Th

Re: Debian default desktop environment

Hi, Wookey wrote: > +++ Kevin Chadwick [2014-08-27 20:55 +0100]: > > It also supports focus follows mouse, no raise on click > > I had forgotten, but this was the 'killer feature' that originally > switched me to XFCE, and to a significant degree keeps me there. So > far as I know gnome3, and u

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On 2014-04-05, Josselin Mouette wrote: > Especially one as minor as the installation CD which has no actual > conceivable use today. At least I don't think that anything 86xish that can't boot from a usb stick is wihtin what we should target as 'default experience'. Maybe even stretching it to '

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 09:27:00PM +0100, Kevin Chadwick wrote: > previously on this list Jakub Wilk contributed: > > > * Gunnar Wolf , 2014-04-04, 23:22: > > >- Media player: mplayer (on libcaca, of course) > > > > With its 4 RC bugs, it doesn't look like mplayer is going to be part of > > jess

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On Tue, 2014-04-08 at 09:23 +0800, Paul Wise wrote: > On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 3:22 AM, Ben Hutchings wrote: > > > That ship sailed long ago. :-/ > > > > Some BMCs (like recent iDRAC) run Linux which means there may be some > > opportunity for an outside project to modify and improve their security.

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 3:22 AM, Ben Hutchings wrote: > That ship sailed long ago. :-/ > > Some BMCs (like recent iDRAC) run Linux which means there may be some > opportunity for an outside project to modify and improve their security. Do you have any references to this? Are these iDRACs compliant

Re: Debian default desktop environment

+++ Kevin Chadwick [2014-08-27 20:55 +0100]: > It also supports focus follows mouse, no raise on click I had forgotten, but this was the 'killer feature' that originally switched me to XFCE, and to a significant degree keeps me there. So far as I know gnome3, and unity don't support this (by desi

Re: Debian default desktop environment

previously on this list Philip Hands contributed: > As for my grumpy tone, I apologise for that -- it probably comes from > the several voluminous threads on debian-devel recently spouting drivel > about systemd which I may have unfairly associated with this thread. If you think it's all drivel t

Re: Debian default desktop environment

Le mardi 08 avril 2014 à 01:26 +0800, Thomas Goirand a écrit : > For a desktop use, probably. For server setup, please don't. The CD1 is > better than the netinst CD because... it doesn't need network! And I > prefer a smaller thing. I'm also unsure all my KVM over IPs support > images for DVDs rat

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On Mon, 2014-04-07 at 10:39 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: > John Paul Adrian Glaubitz writes: > > > We use FAI for that. 99% of our servers don't even have a CD drive > > anymore, just some of the older ones. And even if you want to install > > from CD, most modern servers provide a BMC with keyboar

Re: Debian default desktop environment

previously on this list Jakub Wilk contributed: > * Gunnar Wolf , 2014-04-04, 23:22: > >- Media player: mplayer (on libcaca, of course) > > With its 4 RC bugs, it doesn't look like mplayer is going to be part of > jessie. > I can't tell, is that sarcasm, I hope so as it is the only player hat

Re: Debian default desktop environment

previously on this list Adam D. Barratt contributed: > Please fix your clock. > Have you considered relying on your own clock? I use mail receive order. Do you not get spam annoyingly staying at the top of your box? Sorry if your client does not allow that or doesn't support maildir but this is

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On 04/07/2014 09:08 PM, Cyril Brulebois wrote: > (Maybe it's just me but calling people “not very professional” is > something I consider very rude; not Thomas' mentioning the fact that > the original text had sufficient context in its single paragraph.) Jeez, I said the method was not professiona

Re: Debian default desktop environment

John Paul Adrian Glaubitz (2014-04-07): > On 04/07/2014 08:24 PM, Thomas Goirand wrote: > > That's what I'm using yes. Probably you should have read my message > > up to its end, where I wrote: "I'm also unsure all my KVM over IPs > > support images for DVDs rather than simply CD." > > No need to

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On 04/07/2014 08:58 PM, Jakub Wilk wrote: > * John Paul Adrian Glaubitz , 2014-04-07, > 20:36: >> No need to be rude about that, ok? > > “Oho!” said the pot to the kettle; > “You are dirty and ugly and black!” I wasn't rude in my previous mail, if yes, quote please. -- .''`. John Paul Adrian

Re: Debian default desktop environment

* John Paul Adrian Glaubitz , 2014-04-07, 20:36: No need to be rude about that, ok? “Oho!” said the pot to the kettle; “You are dirty and ugly and black!” -- Jakub Wilk -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On Wed, 2014-08-27 at 20:55 +0100, Kevin Chadwick wrote: Please fix your clock. Regards, Adam -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/1396896883.30509.12.

Re: Debian default desktop environment

previously on this list Wookey contributed: > but I just wanted to repoy to correct the > apparent misapprehension that XFCE doesn't do user-friendly monitor out > of the box. It is hardly a showstopper either and I expect xfce-4.10 does and as there has been a long time of testing before 4.10 wa

Re: Debian default desktop environment

previously on this list Iain R. Learmonth contributed: > The problem of integration is present, but now that I think about it, is > likely more of an upstream problem than a packaging problem. I guess as > more and more things use dbus, integration will become easier. Perhaps but integration and

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On 04/07/2014 08:24 PM, Thomas Goirand wrote: > > That's what I'm using yes. Probably you should have read my message up > to its end, where I wrote: "I'm also unsure all my KVM over IPs support > images for DVDs rather than simply CD." No need to be rude about that, ok? I missed that part. Jeez.

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On 04/08/2014 01:34 AM, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote: > On 04/07/2014 07:26 PM, Thomas Goirand wrote: >> For a desktop use, probably. For server setup, please don't. The CD1 is >> better than the netinst CD because... it doesn't need network! > > You deploy your servers from a CD? Don't get me

Re: Debian default desktop environment

John Paul Adrian Glaubitz writes: > On 04/07/2014 07:39 PM, Russ Allbery wrote: >> Ah, BMC. Now every computer comes with an extra full-fledged computer! >> The main computer is for your use, and the other computer is for the >> use of the attacker. > That's why we block the kvms in our firewal

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On 04/07/2014 07:39 PM, Russ Allbery wrote: > > Ah, BMC. Now every computer comes with an extra full-fledged computer! > The main computer is for your use, and the other computer is for the use > of the attacker. That's why we block the kvms in our firewall so they cannot be reached from outside

Re: Debian default desktop environment

John Paul Adrian Glaubitz writes: > We use FAI for that. 99% of our servers don't even have a CD drive > anymore, just some of the older ones. And even if you want to install > from CD, most modern servers provide a BMC with keyboard, mouse and > video redirect over the network which also allows

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On 04/07/2014 07:26 PM, Thomas Goirand wrote: > For a desktop use, probably. For server setup, please don't. The CD1 is > better than the netinst CD because... it doesn't need network! You deploy your servers from a CD? Don't get me wrong, but installing from CD in an enterprise environment doesn'

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On 04/06/2014 05:06 AM, Matthias Klumpp wrote: > Personally, I think we should offer a DVD instead of a CD as > primary installation medium. For a desktop use, probably. For server setup, please don't. The CD1 is better than the netinst CD because... it doesn't need network! And I prefer a smaller

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On Mon, Apr 07, 2014 at 10:59:39AM -0500, Gunnar Wolf wrote: > Iain R. Learmonth dijo [Sat, Apr 05, 2014 at 09:47:58AM +0100]: > > > So, I suggest we ship a desktop consisting of: > > > > > > (... minimalist and console-based stuff ...) > > > > If someone wanted to put together a meta-package and

Re: Debian default desktop environment

Iain R. Learmonth dijo [Sat, Apr 05, 2014 at 09:47:58AM +0100]: > > So, I suggest we ship a desktop consisting of: > > > > (... minimalist and console-based stuff ...) > > Whilst that is basically my setup, it is definitely not an intuitive one > to use. > > For power users, it likely is better

Re: Debian default desktop environment

My mother is using Debian 6 with Gnome 2. I don’t know if I will ever update this system. Gnome 3 is not a solution, and I’m not interested in teaching XFCE. Shade and sweet water! Stephan There is mate-desktop - http://mate-desktop.org/. and it is partially in Debian as far as I see.

Re: Debian default desktop environment

Quoting Gergely Nagy (2014-04-07 11:10:27) > Can we have ratpoison + selected things as default DE for Debian Zurg? > Please? Pretty please? With sugar on top? First, create a metapackage, and maintain it. Then when getting popular, file bugreport against tasksel to have it included as alternat

Re: Debian default desktop environment

Russ Allbery writes: > Sune Vuorela writes: > >> Part of me wants to have KDE Plasma Desktop as the default workspace, >> because it is completely awesome. > >> Other parts of me is happy that it is not the default because then we >> don't have all sorts of weird wishes about "oh noes. networkma

Re: Debian default desktop environment

> This only provides mirroring, but that's what > people usually want. No, that's not. Multi-screen desktop setups aren't that uncommon, and even for presentations open office can offer a nice screen with timing and notes on the laptop while showing just the slides on the projector. -- Salvo

Re: Debian default desktop environment

+++ Hashem Nasarat [2014-04-04 11:15 -0400]: > On 04/04/2014 10:36 AM, Stephan Seitz wrote: > > On Fri, Apr 04, 2014 at 04:13:27PM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote: > >> Le vendredi 04 avril 2014 à 15:25 +0200, Stephan Seitz a écrit : > >>> and modern hardware. > >> This is no longer a requirement in

Re: Debian default desktop environment

brian m. carlson (2014-04-05): > I just realized my statement was unclear. I believe some people had > stated that GNOME had regressed in accessibility support at the time, > and XFCE was a better choice in this regard. I can't say more because I > don't have enough knowledge on the subject. Ma

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On Sat, Apr 05, 2014 at 11:32:07PM +0100, Ben Hutchings wrote: > On Sat, 2014-04-05 at 18:18 +, brian m. carlson wrote: > [...] > > * There were concerns about accessibility support, "particularly for the > > blind"[2]. > [...] > > Which is unfortunately quite bad in most free graphical desk

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On Sat, 2014-04-05 at 18:18 +, brian m. carlson wrote: > On Sat, Apr 05, 2014 at 07:57:50PM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote: > > Could you please sum up those discussions and explain what kind of > > changes you would consider to be productive? > > I can sum up the discussions that were had last

Re: Debian default desktop environment

2014-04-05 20:18 GMT+02:00 brian m. carlson : > On Sat, Apr 05, 2014 at 07:57:50PM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote: >> Could you please sum up those discussions and explain what kind of >> changes you would consider to be productive? > > I can sum up the discussions that were had last time on debian-

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On Sat, Apr 05, 2014 at 07:57:50PM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote: > Could you please sum up those discussions and explain what kind of > changes you would consider to be productive? I can sum up the discussions that were had last time on debian-devel for you, at least as I remember them. * XFCE f

Re: Debian default desktop environment

Le vendredi 04 avril 2014 à 23:52 +0100, Philip Hands a écrit : > Anyway, to return to the main point, I do wonder why nobody has bothered > to mention that the reason for the switch was that Gnome no longer fits > on CD#1. The thing that I don’t understand is that someone made such a decision, wh

Re: Debian default desktop environment

Le samedi 05 avril 2014 à 11:50 +0200, Milan Zamazal a écrit : > FYI, Xfce + Firefox runs fine on a >10 years old computer with 256 MB > RAM for all practical needs of the user. Well, I guess our “practical needs” differ. Heavily. -- .''`. Josselin Mouette : :' : `. `' `- -- To UNSUBSC

Re: Debian default desktop environment

> "JM" == Josselin Mouette writes: JM> This is mostly irrelevant. The resources consumed by the desktop JM> are negligible compared to applications. As soon as you start a JM> browser with a few tabs on non-trivial websites, 1 GiB of memory JM> is barely enough. Regardless of

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On 05/04/14 06:22, Gunnar Wolf wrote: > So, I suggest we ship a desktop consisting of: > > - Window manager: i3 > - File browser: urxvt > - Photo viewer: caca-utils > - Web browser: lynx > - Mail client: mutt > - Instant messenger: irssi > - Productivity suite: emacs > - Music app: supercollider >

Re: Debian default desktop environment

* Gunnar Wolf , 2014-04-04, 23:22: - Media player: mplayer (on libcaca, of course) With its 4 RC bugs, it doesn't look like mplayer is going to be part of jessie. -- Jakub Wilk -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Conta

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On Sat, Apr 05, 2014 at 12:55 +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote: > On 04/04/2014 09:55 PM, Undefined User wrote: > > 2014-04-04 10:52 GMT-03:00 Jonathan Dowland > >: > > > > We go over the same ground over and over. I'm increasingly in favour > > of *no* > > default.

Re: Debian default desktop environment

This one time, at band camp, Thomas Goirand said: > Then, maybe a GR for deciding which DE should be the default could be > considered. It's not like the init system: I think every DD has enough > knowledge to decide, especially because this is a very subjective choice > with tastes and habits invo

Re: Debian default desktop environment

John Holland dijo [Fri, Apr 04, 2014 at 07:27:11PM -0400]: > How about something completely different: Enlinghtenment? > > No, I'm not kidding If we are offering users something different, we should go for technical excellence. And I have never seen a group where tiling window managers ar

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On 04/04/2014 10:42 PM, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: > On Fri, Apr 04, 2014 at 02:52:41PM +0100, Jonathan Dowland wrote: >> We go over the same ground over and over. I'm increasingly in favour of *no* >> default. You must pick one from a list on install. Randomize the list if >> necessary. > > And ca

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On 04/04/2014 09:55 PM, Undefined User wrote: > 2014-04-04 10:52 GMT-03:00 Jonathan Dowland >: > > We go over the same ground over and over. I'm increasingly in favour > of *no* > default. You must pick one from a list on install. Randomize the list if > ne

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On Sat, Apr 05, 2014 at 12:36:30AM +0100, Philip Hands wrote: > Undefined User writes: > > > 2014-04-04 19:52 GMT-03:00 Philip Hands : > > > >> pointless discussion > > > > First of all, great attitude, my friend. It seems like you are a very > > reasonable person. Second, pointless discussion? S

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On Sat, Apr 05, 2014 at 12:32:45AM +0100, Roger Lynn wrote: > On 04/04/14 00:50, Stephen Allen wrote: > > On Fri, Apr 04, 2014 at 08:18:41AM +1100, Dmitry Smirnov wrote: > >> I think Xfce is much better *default* desktop environment (DE) than Gnome. > >> > >> As KDE fan I do not like Gnome. Those

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On 04/04/14 00:50, Stephen Allen wrote: > On Fri, Apr 04, 2014 at 08:18:41AM +1100, Dmitry Smirnov wrote: >> I think Xfce is much better *default* desktop environment (DE) than Gnome. >> >> As KDE fan I do not like Gnome. Those who forget to choose DE in installer >> (just like I did more than on

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On Fri, Apr 04, 2014 at 23:52 +0100, Philip Hands wrote: > Wolodja Wentland writes: > ... > > One thing I dislike about switching the default DE is that it puts a lot of > > people active in support in a position in which they might not actually be > > as > > familiar with the DE they will end up

Re: Debian default desktop environment

2014-04-04 20:36 GMT-03:00 Philip Hands : > As for my grumpy tone, I apologise for that -- it probably comes from > the several voluminous threads on debian-devel recently spouting drivel > about systemd which I may have unfairly associated with this thread. > Philip, I would like to thank you fo

Re: Debian default desktop environment

Undefined User writes: > 2014-04-04 19:52 GMT-03:00 Philip Hands : > >> pointless discussion > > First of all, great attitude, my friend. It seems like you are a very > reasonable person. Second, pointless discussion? So all these people here > are just wasting time? Well... What can I say? That'

Re: Debian default desktop environment

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 How about something completely different: Enlinghtenment? No, I'm not kidding -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTPz/PAAoJEPCIPbSVUc8t+JMH/j+XBHlroA4pXgEFtzWl2FuI Ah18G6h5kbdqNQgEabwX/sQDCY15ThxM/W

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On 04/04/14 21:38, Marc Haber wrote: > On Fri, 04 Apr 2014 10:28:26 -0700, Russ Allbery > wrote: >> Sune Vuorela writes: >> >>> Part of me wants to have KDE Plasma Desktop as the default workspace, >>> because it is completely awesome. >> >>> Other parts of me is happy that it is not the default

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On 05/04/14 00:52, Philip Hands wrote: > Anyway, to return to the main point, I do wonder why nobody has bothered > to mention that the reason for the switch was that Gnome no longer fits > on CD#1. If that were true, we could surely fix it. If it were true. Emilio -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to

Re: Debian default desktop environment

2014-04-04 19:52 GMT-03:00 Philip Hands : > pointless discussion First of all, great attitude, my friend. It seems like you are a very reasonable person. Second, pointless discussion? So all these people here are just wasting time? Well... What can I say? That's your point of view and I have to

Re: Debian default desktop environment

Wolodja Wentland writes: ... > One thing I dislike about switching the default DE is that it puts a lot of > people active in support in a position in which they might not actually be as > familiar with the DE they will end up supporting most frequently simply by > having learned a different "defa

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On Fri, Apr 04, 2014 at 16:19 +0100, Jonathan Dowland wrote: > On Fri, Apr 04, 2014 at 04:42:19PM +0200, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: > > And can I pass my granddad's phone call on to you when he is stuck > > choosing among names that are absolutely obscure to him like "GNOME", > > "Xfce", and "KDE"?

Re: Debian default desktop environment

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On 04/04/2014 03:39 PM, Marc Haber wrote: > On Fri, 04 Apr 2014 10:04:37 -0400, The Wanderer > wrote: > >> (Depending on context, of course; in a Web forum where the message >> being replied to is probably still visible when reading the reply, >>

Re: Debian default desktop environment

On Fri, 04 Apr 2014 10:04:37 -0400, The Wanderer wrote: >(Depending on context, of course; in a Web forum where the message being >replied to is probably still visible when reading the reply, quoting >would be inapproriate. But we're talking about E-mail here.) And e-mail threading wasn't invente

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