On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 07:42:18PM +0100, al3xu5 via Dng wrote:
>
> My suspected is that the (totally unecessary) usr-merge decision made by
> Debian will force (almost) all its derivatives to adapt even if they
> despite.
>
> This is because maintaining a derived distribution rejecting usr-merg
Sat, 13 Nov 2021 17:24:51 -0500 - Steve Litt :
> k...@aspodata.se said on Sat, 13 Nov 2021 22:28:02 +0100 (CET)
>
> >James Cloos:
> >> > John Morris via Dng writes:
> >> > So yes, it is time to eliminate /bin, /sbin and /lib.
> >> the real result shod be eliminate /usr.
> >
> >
Le 16/11/2021 à 01:44, Florian Zieboll via Dng a écrit :
> On Mon, 15 Nov 2021 21:19:08 +0100
> Antoine via Dng wrote:
>> For what it's worth, I can confirm this : I ran a BeagleBoneBlack
>> build of Devuan for a while and was rather surprised one day to
>> discover that it had no kernel package i
On Mon, 15 Nov 2021 21:19:08 +0100
Antoine via Dng wrote:
>
> For what it's worth, I can confirm this : I ran a BeagleBoneBlack
> build of Devuan for a while and was rather surprised one day to
> discover that it had no kernel package installed at all. The kernel
> and initramfs where packed into
On Saturday, 13 November at 22:31, Didier Kryn wrote:
Le 13/11/2021 à 20:46, Steve Litt a écrit :
(snip)
Hi Karl,
I think it's more than just a little time. Every time the kernel
updates, you need to get the new kernel's source, recompile, and
replace the new kernel.
It *is* an interesting
Steve Litt - 13.11.21, 23:24:51 CET:
> By the way, for the person who really wants the usr merge, wouldn't
> the conversion from an unmerged system consist of two mass copies and
> a few symlinks?
No.
At least not if you like dpkg to be working fine. As I noted before, see:
https://wiki.debian.o
k...@aspodata.se said on Sat, 13 Nov 2021 22:28:02 +0100 (CET)
>James Cloos:
>> > John Morris via Dng writes:
>> > So yes, it is time to eliminate /bin, /sbin and /lib.
>> the real result shod be eliminate /usr.
>
>Guys, please don't push unnessary changes and policies
>to the user. Let
Le 13/11/2021 à 20:46, Steve Litt a écrit :
> k...@aspodata.se said on Sat, 13 Nov 2021 12:42:51 +0100 (CET)
>
>> Steve Litt:
>>> John Morris via Dng said on Fri, 12 Nov 2021 17:26:52 -0600
On Tue, 2021-11-09 at 01:56 -0500, Steve Litt wrote:
>> ...
The size of the OS is just so small
James Cloos:
> > John Morris via Dng writes:
> > So yes, it is time to eliminate /bin, /sbin and /lib.
> the real result shod be eliminate /usr.
Guys, please don't push unnessary changes and policies
to the user. Let each and everyone be the master of his/her
own systems.
Just because debian
k...@aspodata.se said on Sat, 13 Nov 2021 12:42:51 +0100 (CET)
>Steve Litt:
>> John Morris via Dng said on Fri, 12 Nov 2021 17:26:52 -0600
>> >On Tue, 2021-11-09 at 01:56 -0500, Steve Litt wrote:
>...
>> >The size of the OS is just so small now, compared to storage media
>> >and data files. E
> John Morris via Dng writes:
> So yes, it is time to eliminate /bin, /sbin and /lib.
the real result shod be eliminate /usr.
system packages should all use --prefix=/, local ones should default
to --prefix=/local, and closed src crap^Wstuff should use things like
/opt/FOO for a prefix.
li
Am Samstag, 13. November 2021 schrieb Didier Kryn:
> Le 13/11/2021 à 08:48, Didier Kryn a écrit :
> > Le 13/11/2021 à 00:26, John Morris via Dng a écrit :
> >> So yes, it is time to eliminate /bin, /sbin and /lib.
> >
> > Seems I've got it wrong. My understanding was that /usr/bin and
> > /usr/
Steve Litt:
> John Morris via Dng said on Fri, 12 Nov 2021 17:26:52 -0600
> >On Tue, 2021-11-09 at 01:56 -0500, Steve Litt wrote:
...
> >The size of the OS is just so small now, compared to storage media and
> >data files. Even a small SSD will easily hold all of /usr for all but
> >the most bloat
On Sat, Nov 13, 2021 at 09:32:38AM +0100, Didier Kryn wrote:
>
> I now understand the concern of Steve: it looks like the beginning
> of an attempt to force initramfs on people, even if it is not effective yet.
I too dislike having to use initramfs rather than having the essential
modules com
Le 13/11/2021 à 08:48, Didier Kryn a écrit :
> Le 13/11/2021 à 00:26, John Morris via Dng a écrit :
>> So yes, it is time to eliminate /bin, /sbin and /lib.
> Seems I've got it wrong. My understanding was that /usr/bin and
> /usr/sbin were merged into /bin and /sbin. You assume the opposite and
Le 13/11/2021 à 00:26, John Morris via Dng a écrit :
> So yes, it is time to eliminate /bin, /sbin and /lib.
Seems I've got it wrong. My understanding was that /usr/bin and
/usr/sbin were merged into /bin and /sbin. You assume the opposite and
probably so does Steve.
Needs clarifications.
John Morris via Dng said on Fri, 12 Nov 2021 17:26:52 -0600
>On Tue, 2021-11-09 at 01:56 -0500, Steve Litt wrote:
>>
>> The logic is still the same. I need a guaranteed place on the root
>> partition to find the programs necessary to mount all the other
>> partitions, or else I'll need to run an
On Tue, 2021-11-09 at 01:56 -0500, Steve Litt wrote:
>
> The logic is still the same. I need a guaranteed place on the root
> partition to find the programs necessary to mount all the other
> partitions, or else I'll need to run an initramfs.
Been following this debate. Admit that a few years ag
Le 09/11/2021 à 07:56, Steve Litt a écrit :
> The logic is still the same. I need a guaranteed place on the root
> partition to find the programs necessary to mount all the other
> partitions, or else I'll need to run an initramfs.
You just need that the root partition be large enough to conta
Didier Kryn said on Mon, 8 Nov 2021 13:50:25 +0100
>Le 06/11/2021 à 03:03, Steve Litt a écrit :
>> Personally, I want a directory, guaranteed not to be a mount point,
>> where the statically compiled binaries necessary to bring up the
>> system, things like mount and ln and vi and fsck, etc, so if
Didier Kryn - 08.11.21, 13:50:25 CET:
> What is called "interpreter" here is the dynamic linker associated to
> the shared version of gcc, the Gnu C library. There is practically no
> statically linked application in a Debian distribution, except some
> part of debootstrap.
Well and special packag
On Mon, 8 Nov 2021 13:50:25 +0100
Didier Kryn wrote:
> Le 06/11/2021 à 03:03, Steve Litt a écrit :
> > Personally, I want a directory, guaranteed not to be a mount point,
> > where the statically compiled binaries necessary to bring up the
> > system, things like mount and ln and vi and fsck, etc
Le 08/11/2021 à 13:50, Didier Kryn a écrit :
> Le 06/11/2021 à 03:03, Steve Litt a écrit :
>> Personally, I want a directory, guaranteed not to be a mount point,
>> where the statically compiled binaries necessary to bring up the
>> system, things like mount and ln and vi and fsck, etc, so if I don
Le 06/11/2021 à 03:03, Steve Litt a écrit :
> Personally, I want a directory, guaranteed not to be a mount point,
> where the statically compiled binaries necessary to bring up the
> system, things like mount and ln and vi and fsck, etc, so if I don't
> want to, I don't have to run an initramfs.
>> On 11/5/21 4:13 PM, Svante Signell via Dng wrote:
>>> On Fri, 2021-11-05 at 18:50 +, Alexis PM via Dng wrote:
Debian 11 Bullseye is the last Debian release that supports the
non-
merged-usr layout. It is therefore foreseeable that Devuan 4
Chimaera
will also be.
>>>
Harald Arnesen via Dng - 06.11.21, 12:31:16 CET:
> william moss via Dng [05/11/2021 22.49]:
> > BSD and system V (AT&T/Bell Labs System Five) switched more than a
> > decade ago.
>
> Certainly not FreeBSD:
>
> $ uname -or
> FreeBSD 13.0-STABLE
>
> $ ls /bin | wc -l
>44
>
> $ ls /usr/bin
william moss via Dng [05/11/2021 22.49]:
BSD and system V (AT&T/Bell Labs System Five) switched more than a
decade ago.
Certainly not FreeBSD:
$ uname -or
FreeBSD 13.0-STABLE
$ ls /bin | wc -l
44
$ ls /usr/bin | wc -l
488
--
Hilsen Harald
william moss via Dng - 05.11.21, 22:49:42 CET:
> On 11/5/21 4:13 PM, Svante Signell via Dng wrote:
> > On Fri, 2021-11-05 at 18:50 +, Alexis PM via Dng wrote:
> >> Debian 11 Bullseye is the last Debian release that supports the
> >> non-
> >> merged-usr layout. It is therefore foreseeable that
On 11/5/21 4:13 PM, Svante Signell via Dng wrote:
> On Fri, 2021-11-05 at 18:50 +, Alexis PM via Dng wrote:
>> Debian 11 Bullseye is the last Debian release that supports the non-
>> merged-usr layout. It is therefore foreseeable that Devuan 4 Chimaera
>> will also be.
>>
>
> I'm not so sure
Alexis PM via Dng said on Fri, 5 Nov 2021 18:50:41 + (UTC)
> Debian 11 Bullseye is the last Debian release that supports the
> non-merged-usr layout.
>It is therefore foreseeable that Devuan 4 Chimaera will also be.
>
>Official Debian information:
>
>The historical justifications for the files
Martin Steigerwald said on Fri, 05 Nov 2021 15:44:06 +0100
>No need to Cc me. I am subscribed. (I know there are different habits,
>so just a friendly information.)
Me too. I'm on the list, and people cc'ing me when replying to the list
or writing to me and cc'ing the list just complexify my lif
Svante Signell via Dng - 05.11.21, 21:13:10 CET:
> On Fri, 2021-11-05 at 18:50 +, Alexis PM via Dng wrote:
> > Debian 11 Bullseye is the last Debian release that supports the
> > non-
> > merged-usr layout. It is therefore foreseeable that Devuan 4
> > Chimaera
> > will also be.
>
> I'm not s
On Fri, 2021-11-05 at 18:50 +, Alexis PM via Dng wrote:
> Debian 11 Bullseye is the last Debian release that supports the non-
> merged-usr layout. It is therefore foreseeable that Devuan 4 Chimaera
> will also be.
>
I'm not so sure Devuan has to follow Debian with respect to merged-
/usr. I
Debian 11 Bullseye is the last Debian release that supports the non-merged-usr
layout.
It is therefore foreseeable that Devuan 4 Chimaera will also be.
Official Debian information:
The historical justifications for the filesystem layout with /bin,
/sbin, and /lib directories separate from their
Hi Svante.
No need to Cc me. I am subscribed. (I know there are different habits, so
just a friendly information.)
Svante Signell - 05.11.21, 11:26:52 CET:
> On Fri, 2021-11-05 at 10:52 +0100, Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> > Debian 11 defaults to usr merge. So the installed system used usr
> > mer
On Fri, 2021-11-05 at 10:52 +0100, Martin Steigerwald wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I migrated a Debian Buster to Devuan Chimaera by already install runit-
> init into /target during Debian installation and then switching over
> sources.list to Chimaera.
>
> Debian 11 defaults to usr merge. So the installed s
Hi!
I migrated a Debian Buster to Devuan Chimaera by already install runit-
init into /target during Debian installation and then switching over
sources.list to Chimaera.
Debian 11 defaults to usr merge. So the installed system used usr merge.
I suppose Devuan is compatible and will remain comp
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