Hi,
On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 3:47 AM, Jude Nelson wrote:
> Considering the dependencies on libsystemd0, libpam-systemd, libudev0, and
> libudev1, I get:
I don't see eudev or mdev in Debian's repos, are there any viable alternatives?
Cheers,
Nuno
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On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 12:44 PM, Anthony G. Basile
wrote:
> eudev is used in gentoo and some other projects, like buildroot and crux.
So i've noticed. what about devuan?
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I'd go for:
1. http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/File:Negative-Galaxy-v1.5-SVG.svg
or a spinoff of this, seems sober and not too flashy, i like it
2. http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/File:Devuan-D-Inspired-2.svg
if the swirl could be improved and, as a suggestion, the other letters
On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 5:33 AM, Martijn Dekkers
wrote:
> Whilst I am still utterly amazed with how awesome Linux servers are, I don't
> think we will ever get there with desktops.
Diversity can be a strength, or a weakness. It's good to have diverse
desktops (i dislike behemoths like GNOME and K
Isn't Bastille a set of scripts to harden Debian security?
Well, IMMHO, Devuan shouldn't need such a collection if said security
was default (which should be).
Cheers,
Nuno
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Oddly enough, the Pi2 is camera shy and will blush on flash...
http://www.neowin.net/news/a-camera-flash-will-make-the-raspberry-pi-2-freeze-and-reboot
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On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 6:03 PM, Jaromil wrote:
> However, I don't think this is a priority now. I still cannot imagine
> why someone would want to be strictly anonymous while accessing that.
You can replace anonymous with systemd, you know?
It's a matter of choice.
___
> Talking about something else, it seems that the list is becoming
> two-fold. On one hand, it becomes concentrated on development, while
> at the same time it discusses more philosophical issues. Maybe is it
> the moment to separate into a dev list and a users list?
Nope. I think both being toget
Assuming i don't get moderated out (unlike the resident troll),
On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 9:59 PM, Luke Leighton wrote:
> 1) your debian system will not be screwed up or compromised by using
> devuan. you will also not lose any functionality or packages.
>
> 2) we understand the difficulty o
On Mon, Feb 16, 2015 at 10:24 AM, Jaromil wrote:
> dear Nuno,
>
> On Sun, 15 Feb 2015, Nuno Magalhães wrote:
>
>> Assuming i don't get moderated out (unlike the resident troll),
>
> the reason why your emails are arriving delayed is due to your email
> configura
Didn't know this thread was poll-ish.
I use/administer/whatever 100 machines at the moment: 11 run linux,
the other 1 (my laptop) runs windows while still in warranty (and
because in a realistic world i have to deal with Microsoft Office,
although i've heard its 2003 version runs well in WINE). Of
On Fri, Feb 20, 2015 at 5:47 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
> They were
> specialists in monolithic entanglement when Lennart was in diapers.
i'd say any Behemoth DE does that and, like some else said, systemd
doing it is just the latest (and most blatant) example of this.
Cheers,
Nuno
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On Fri, Feb 20, 2015 at 2:30 PM, Nate Bargmann wrote:
>
> As a home user of Debian running Xfce and also with a strong hobbyist
> interest and advocate for Linux systems, I do not wish to be excluded by
> Devuan and, at least for 1.0, that does not appear to be in the plan.
+1
I don't see what's
On Sun, Feb 22, 2015 at 4:20 PM, Gravis wrote:
> As recent news has shown, we also need to start writing new firmware for our
> hard drives. Since so many things have shown to be insecure, the question
> has becomes if it's worth reverse engineering proprietary systems versus
> engineering a libr
On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 1:48 AM, Anto wrote:
> No comment anyone?
Actually, i didn't see your first post...
For Debian, you could try, as a hack, to install either and older
wheezy or squeeze, pin stuff and upgrade. There are also docs laying
around for stippping systemd from wheezy to varying d
On Sun, Feb 22, 2015 at 2:38 PM, Ста Деюс wrote:
> But, at the first, what is planned to perform to protect «Devuan» from
> the guys, that got hold of the fantastic project «Debian»? In other
> words, if the guys come to «Devuan» and by their cruelty will start
> to «help» some of developers to co
On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 7:15 PM, Anto wrote:
> What is not clear to me is that, what will happen to udev or all systemd
> related packages that are currently required by nginx-extras and php5-fpm
> for instance?
On wheezy i don't see nginx-extras depending on udev or any systemd*.
I don't have je
On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 8:54 PM, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> Unless, of course, we choose to use the band's logo as well...
Paul Stanley's tongue... Tux sticking its tongue out... dunno. Anyway
will Devuan have release names? I'd go with Calimero for 1.0.
___
On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 at 12:57 AM, Noel Torres wrote:
> We have RAID tools like mdadm for RAID, and filesystems like ext4 or Reiserfs
> for file storage.
>
> Why would I want a tool combining both?
You'd want one so you can, for isntance, avoid a RAID5 write hole. ZFS
seems pretty cool, the only d
On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 8:15 AM, Anthony Scemama wrote:
> I found this image on the web:
>
> http://tux.crystalxp.net/png/kros753-kiss-the-demon-2286.png
>
> It's a good mix between KISS and Linux!
> If you like it, I can ask the guys from CrystalXP.net if it can be used for
> Devuan.
I don't wan
On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 12:14 PM, Martijn Dekkers
wrote:
> If this is something we are going to be doing more often, I can deploy
> https://opinahq.com/ or https://www.limesurvey.org/en/ (or whatever else
> people prefer)
If there's a way to make sure each user only votes once, it would be
intere
> On 02/26/15 10:24, Linuxito wrote:
>> The logo threads are multiplying: it shows the impatience is growing.
I disagree. IMHO the logo threads show a lot of users like to chip in
with their opinions. No harm there, and no impatience either. I
believe rushed things tend to hit fans. Therefore, i'd
On Thu, Feb 26, 2015 at 7:42 PM, Go Linux wrote:
> The best solution would probably be to use a text identity until the graphics
> get sorted after the alpha is released.
There's a certain project called hasciicam which can be used to create
very nifty text logos...
> For the record . . . I sub
On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 6:39 PM, Gravis wrote:
> - people will switch when the annoyance of unexpected systemd behavior
> outweighs the annoyance of getting rid of systemd
> - developers will stop using it when something nicer with wider support
> comes along or they personally are fed up with sys
On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 8:30 PM, hellekin wrote:
>> Awesome! As it is the planet-wide project, why make it necessary to
>> translate even logo into languages? - Let it be just graphical stuff.
+1
> *** Why is everybody looking for the One Ring to Rule Them All? Can't
> we have unity through div
On Fri, Feb 27, 2015 at 9:55 PM, Go Linux wrote:
>> And why penguins? I think in terms of non-conformity, the platypus
>> makes much more sense.
> Why?
'Cos us humans and out need for recognizable patterns can't quite classify it :)
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Good work, hellekin!
On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 7:19 AM, hellekin wrote:
> ### [Beware The Red Hat Octopus][25]
>
> Steven W. Scott warns against Red Hat's way, comparing systemd with
> Microsoft's failed attempt to supplant Sun's Java. (Is there a Godwin
> point for mentioning M$?) He offers to ch
On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 10:42 PM, T.J. Duchene wrote:
> On Tue, 3 Mar 2015 07:25:23 +
> KatolaZ wrote:
>
> All computer languages are constrained to the physical nature of the
> processor, so the benefits of one over another are usually really
> nothing more than syntactic sugar.
So what you'
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 3:00 AM, Anto wrote:
> I pinned my php5 packages to version 5.4.36-0+deb7u1 on wheezy, because
> php5-fpm version 5.6.5+dfsg-2 on jessie requires libsystemd0. When I did
> dist-upgrade just now, it wanted to upgrade dpkg, dpkg-dev and libdpkg-perl
> from version 1.17.23 to 1
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 9:22 PM, Tom Collins wrote:
> They spit on us every chance they get.
> There should be repercussions.
Take a deep breath, focus your energy on positive things, like Devuan.
It's a much more productive use of your time.
With political correctness out of the way, i get you, b
On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 5:34 AM, Martijn Dekkers
wrote:
> can we keep politics off this list please.
+1
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On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 11:14 PM, T.J. Duchene wrote:
> If I might offer an alternative suggestion? I'd rather see Devuan default
> to Chromium with NAPI support than use Firefox, period. As for
> Thunderbird, I see no reason to use Mozilla's version. Unless things have
> changed since I last h
On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 7:06 PM, T.J. Duchene wrote:
>
> If someone has issue with the code, it's open. Go look for yourself. I beg
> everyone's kind indulgence and excuse me for saying this, but the conspiracy
> theories about Google and the Chromium source code come from people who have
> never
On Sat, Mar 7, 2015 at 4:16 PM, Klaus Hartnegg wrote:
>> Just want to say that I really like this idea of naming releases after minor
>> planets, such as Ceres. It's a way cool idea.
+1
> Cool yes, but useful? Numbers have the huge advantage that everybody knows
> their order, which is quite i
On Sat, Mar 7, 2015 at 6:11 PM, T.J. Duchene wrote:
>
>> "Go look at the code, it's open" is a common "argument" i hear from
>> pro-systemd advocates. Curious. About looking at the code: have you
>> personally audited chrome's code, top to bottom, OpenBSD-style? 'Cos if you
>> haven't - it is
On Sat, Mar 7, 2015 at 6:44 PM, Klaus Hartnegg wrote:
> Nowhere on that page is a version number or a release date, so people not
> familar with cool have no idea how outdated this might be
So let's strive to make better documentation.
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On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 10:44 PM, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> until they've been a
> member
What constitutes Devuan membership?
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On Fri, Mar 20, 2015 at 9:09 PM, Joerg Reisenweber wrote:
> My guess would be that all rogue stuff like
> systemd simply doesn't show up in devuan's packages.gz, and thus any package
> depending on it would run into unmet dependencies when trying to install it.
Makes sense.
__
On Sun, Mar 22, 2015 at 7:24 AM, T.J. Duchene wrote:
> What I said was at some point Devuan will probably have to support systemd's
> API, in order to support upstream projects that actually require systemd.
Why?
Biggest example: GNOME (now) requires systemd. I don't want systemd,
so, i won't us
On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 6:59 PM, Mark R. White wrote:
>
> Just to be clear: I've seen a lot of cross talk about the possibility of
> systemd being put into Devuan via a sandbox or even having the systemd API
> written in. Is it safe to assume that going forward that there will be no
> systemd in
On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 8:44 PM, Anto wrote:
> From the recent discussions, it seems KDE, Gnome (and its forks), and
> (perhaps) Unity are out of the options. I think there are a lot of good
> options like XFCE, LXDE, Enlightenment, etc. But which one is going to be
> *initially* fully supported i
On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 12:15 PM, poitr pogo wrote:
> S6 even forces such a program must not handle daemon mode itself.
> That process must not "background itself": being run by a
> supervision tree already makes it a "background" task.
I don't know its innards, but i find it awkward that a p
On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 2:49 PM, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> It would be nice to have a choice. That is what android does not
> provide.
I thought the NDK would allow you to bypass (most of) the sugarcoating.
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On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 9:42 AM, KatolaZ wrote:
> Well, the reason is simple: Debian was a project whose main objective
> was to provide a Free Software Universal Operating Systems[1], not a
> free DNS. We could also ask why on Earth Debian does not provide a
> HTTP proxy. or an email relay, or a
On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 1:41 PM, Joerg Reisenweber wrote:
> The linux trademark is owned and protected, I think they can't do with
> linux whatever they want.
I believe it's onwn by Mr Torvalds to prevent someone else from
clobbering it (like SCO). I don't think he plans to actually leverage
that
Please don't feed the trolls. Thank you.
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On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 12:25 PM, Nate Bargmann wrote:
> Before anyone takes this too seriously a bit more research needs to be
> done as we are very close to the date that an elaborate ruse is
> plausible, at least for us in the USA.
For the time being, it seems like a joke. At least this time.
On Wed, Apr 1, 2015 at 8:25 PM, toto titi wrote:
> Do you plan to get rid of pulseaudio and avahi as well, or do you just
> focus on systemd ?
(I don't speak for the VUA but, from what i've been reading...)
Systemd is perceived as not freedom-friendly, hence the fork. If
pulseaudio and/or avahi
On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 8:52 PM, T.J. Duchene wrote:
> DNS calls are nonspecific
> data, associated only with your carrier's dynamic IP address, not a specific
> user.
Where i come from ISP's dynamic IP lease times are *very* long, you
need to reboot the home router to get a new IP and even then y
On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 11:36 PM, Franco Lanza wrote:
> Personally on debian i was using from date
>
> APT:Install-Recommends "0";
> APT:Install-Suggests "0";
+1
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One thing that has always bugged me was that Debian was supposed to be
*the* distro that runs on just about anything from an embedded system
to a supercomputer, from an old dumb terminal or mainframe to a fairly
recent laptop (well kinda, drivers etc). It was even one of the
reasons the default ins
On Sun, Apr 5, 2015 at 12:15 PM, Martial Bornet (gmail)
wrote:
>
> do you have any idea of the date when the 1st release will be available ?
Preferably When Ready.
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On Sun, Apr 5, 2015 at 5:13 PM, KatolaZ wrote:
> I admit that in the last years several distributions (and vendors)
> have messed up quite a lot with these once well-understood concepts,
> releasing as stable stuff that would rationally be considered barely
> alpha, but I really would like Devuan
On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 5:10 AM, Neo Futur wrote:
> Same here I accept it on my mageia laptop, i dont really care the nsa
> knowing everything of me ( they already have
> http://leaksource.info/2013/12/30/nsas-ant-division-catalog-of-exploits-for-nearly-every-major-software-hardware-firmware/
> )
On Mon, Apr 6, 2015 at 10:46 PM, Joel Roth wrote:
> We have few enough VUAs already that it seems wasteful to
> hound out qualified folks who have diverse views and happen
> to be prolific posters.
I don't know nor care what the drama was about for whoever-he-is to
leave. He's free to join, he's
On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 at 7:25 AM, Martijn Dekkers
wrote:
> I know this has come up a few times in the past, but I would really like to
> see a dev specific list, with some strict "dev-only" rules.
I disagree, this will mean the devs will self-segregate and tend to
ignore users.
Having "both camps"
Oh wait, it wasn't offlist.
On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 5:13 AM, Martijn Dekkers
wrote:
>> The «long standing, wide-ranging implementation pattern» thing is a
>> bogus argument. Similar to "Lots of people jump of bridges, care to
>> join them?"
>
>
> Thats just uninformed bullshit. "Patterns" are one
Hi,
Just me being picky here.
On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 5:35 AM, Martijn Dekkers
wrote:
> The flip side is those that say "don't split the lists" - there again is no
> significant cost to subscribing to both both lists, and follow and
> participate in both lists if they so wish. It isn't so much a
On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at 2:51 AM, T.J. Duchene wrote:
> From a user standpoint, it lets them use software that they might not
> otherwise have on Devuan.
Yet.
Right?
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On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 3:11 PM, shraptor wrote:
> systemd has got a long reach indeed
If it's being shipped out-of-the-box in (almost) all the main distros,
it's not long reach, it's statistics.
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On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 10:18 PM, James Powell wrote:
> Patrick has no intent on enforcing the usage of systemd upon Slackware and
> it's users unless it becomes an unavoidable issue.
Which raises the question: what does Patrick consider to be unavoidable?
I thought Debian would run on anything a
On Sat, May 23, 2015 at 9:59 PM, James Powell wrote:
> It's a shame Devuan can't make a bold statement against the kernel itself to
> not want to buy into Greg Kroah-Hartman's systemdified kdbus future, and try
> to force the kernel to be forked as well.
Let's hope Mr Torvalds has the balls to do
On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 9:37 AM, Daniel Reurich wrote:
> I'd like a straw poll on whether we should include non-free firmware in our
> installers by default.
Either by default or with an option to load it during the
installation. That is,of course, if one wants Devuan to run on
hardware that may n
You're forgetting SQL injection and XSS, to name a few. Wireshark in a
cybercafé pops into mind too plus a gazillion of windows
vulnerabilities.
I'm placing no bets on Whether-or-not-it-was-systemd and find that
discussion moot unless there's any solid details on the hack.
Does Devuan keep up to
On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 11:45 PM, James Powell wrote:
> You'd have to really spoof PAM and fool the IDS to some extent, and you have
> Firewalls to get past.
You're assuming there is an IDS.
It may have been via an employee logging in to the company extranet
via cybercafé wireless or something..
On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 5:16 PM, Lars Noodén wrote:
> IIRC the Icon programming language had an exchange operator to swap the
> contents of two variables.
>
> a :=: b
C:
a = a ^ b;
b = a ^ b;
a = a ^ b;
Much more fun. Them :=: look like weird emoticons.
--
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Greetings
Is there an LXC template for devuan? Or, has anyone tried modding the
one for debian? Is it a drop-in replacement?
Cheers,
Nuno
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Answering self,
using the gentoo template as base:
-- MIRROR=${MIRROR:-http://http.debian.net/debian}
++ MIRROR=${MIRROR:-http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged/}
-- configure_debian_systemd $path $rootfs
++ #configure_debian_systemd $path $rootfs
lxc-create -n lxcdev -f /path/to/your/lxc.conf -t
Didn't the Debian Constitution ultimately help in screwing that distro
up? Or was it some other bureaucratic device?
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Unfortunately it only allows you to search by package, leaving you
with a lot of non-linux and inactive distros - and no ranking.
But it's a nice feature.
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On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 6:28 AM, Edward Bartolo wrote:
> I think, the majority of people opting to use a non-mainstream OS like
> GNU/Linux do so for a good reason, and those who use it to look geeky
> and to impress, simply cannot persevere when problems crop up and take
> a good deal of effort to
On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 6:51 PM, Edward Bartolo wrote:
> Here, you are talking to someone who developed a GRAPHICAL network
> manager. You see, I too created an application to help 'clueless'
> users. Ubuntu is not the only distribution to help newbies.
I tend to make a distinction between clueles
On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 8:49 AM, wrote:
>
> It is very unlikely that Gentoo would switch to systemd.
I sure hope so, it and slackware are my current distros of choice ever
since Debian ceased to be, it's been fun.
However, i must point out that Gentoo does have systemd as an option
and this, IMHO
On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 8:23 AM, wrote:
> On 151105-21:19-0500, Steve Litt wrote:
>> On Thu, 5 Nov 2015 21:18:42 +0000
>> Nuno Magalhães wrote:
>>
>> > On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 8:49 AM, wrote:
>> > >
>> > > It is very unlikely that Gentoo wou
Gee i'm glad the world is united and there are no country-borders. Oh, wait...
On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 12:51 PM, Mitt Green wrote:
> This is offtopic. I'm interested in whether college or university degree
> is necessary to work in IT industry (of any kind: admin, embedded systems
> developer, dr
Hi,
On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 7:56 PM, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 12, 2015 at 01:54:37PM -0500, Steve Litt wrote:
>> On Thu, 12 Nov 2015 16:57:19 +0300
>> Mitt Green wrote:
>>
>> > I wonder how many people that use Debian for quite long time (since
>> > 90s or the beginning of this millenn
On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 4:32 PM, Rainer Weikusat
wrote:
> (hence, having to recurr to someone who
> accidentally made it through the hiring process despite he was
> competent).
Maybe you meant "incompetent"? Either way, have fun.
Bye,
Nuno
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Greetings,
I have a VPS running whezzy (7.8) which was a little behind updates
before systemd hit the fan. It's used as a LAMP stack and i'm
wondering how easy would it be to upgrade it to devuan.
I had a debian vm laying around and remember i did just that and IIRC
it wasn't a big deal. Does any
On Tue, Jan 19, 2016 at 2:44 PM, dev1fanboy wrote:
> So I assume lilo has stopped development altogether from the last release,
> and we can look forward to only having the more complex grub2.
Slackware uses lilo by default, maybe someone there will tend to it.
Or the IoT crowd.
On Gmail they're being marked as spam, along with GoLinux's.
I weed them out every now and then.
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On Sat, Jan 30, 2016 at 2:38 PM, Rainer Weikusat
wrote:
> How does that apply to people who resend it? After all, the net effect
> of that is "create more archived copies of it" and "draw more attention
> to it". And it isn't particularly worthy of either.
+1
seems like kindergarten in here
_
Greetings,
Considering the systemd team has been focusing on sd-bus, how
systemd-free is dbus?
Cheers,
Nuno
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On Fri, Mar 4, 2016 at 1:54 AM, Joel Roth wrote:
> Being that
> so much complex code is built on dbus, Pottering and co
> guarantee that dbus will not be broken by updates in the
> protocol.
Meh, i don't buy their guarantees. Rephrasing: considering they're
focusing on sd-bus, is the borg collect
On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 8:25 PM, Hendrik Boom wrote:
> A year or two ago they announced they were going to support BSD as
> another kernel.
IIRC they had previously supported BSD, had they not?
--
"On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog."
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On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 9:01 PM, Mitt Green wrote:
> If you mean ubuntuBSD, it's made by a community.
As is a lot of everything else...?
--
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