Hi,
On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 17:35:40 +0200
Lorenzo Cogotti wrote:
> I was wondering about the possibility of FreeBSD to provide an
> official supported graphical environment.
for taking resources away from FreeBSD itself? I do not see the need
for this as long there is a single item open on the dod
> And then, a modern GUI should take care of Wifi, automount,
No thanks, seperate issues.
> and many
> things can't be done with a single WM. That's why I said "twm is not a
> modern GUI". So far, any questions?
TWM is not a modern window manager, but is small & light, & comes
with X11. I'm ha
On 09/18/12 00:23, Zhihao Yuan wrote:
On Sep 17, 2012 4:04 PM, "Guido Falsi" mailto:m...@madpilot.net>> wrote:
>
> On 09/17/12 21:13, Zhihao Yuan wrote:
>>
>> 1. Maximize graphical user experience by officially implementing Wifi
>> helpers, auto-mounters;
>
>
> A good automounter definite
Again, I think the best thing you can do is find a few people who are
aligned with what you're trying to achieve, sketch together something,
write up a few applets/applications, and get them into a port.
I then think the best thing to do is talk/work with the PCBSD people
to get this stuff integra
On 17 September 2012 10:53, Zhihao Yuan wrote:
> >From a programmer's point of view, GUI is a protocol, a graphical
> language. It's true. But users don't care. Users don't care how their
> graphical commands are being implemented.
>
> Well, let's make it more straightforward. I hope people can ag
On Sep 17, 2012 4:04 PM, "Guido Falsi" wrote:
>
> On 09/17/12 21:13, Zhihao Yuan wrote:
>>
>> 1. Maximize graphical user experience by officially implementing Wifi
>> helpers, auto-mounters;
>
>
> A good automounter definitely does not need a GUI.
> …
> BTW for this case too there is a whole set o
-Original Message-
From: owner-freebsd-hack...@freebsd.org
[mailto:owner-freebsd-hack...@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Steffen Daode
Nurpmeso
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 3:51 PM
To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Providing a default graphical environment on FreeBSD
|> Hi,
|>
-Original Message-
From: owner-freebsd-hack...@freebsd.org
[mailto:owner-freebsd-hack...@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Zhihao Yuan
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 1:54 PM
To: Mike Meyer
Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org
Subject: Re: Providing a default graphical environment on FreeBSD
Well
We have a web host installation using FreeBSD 8.0, Tomcat, and Java. We
ship many copies of this, and haven't changed the OS load in several months.
In the last 72 hours, we've had two different systems freeze; they don't
apparently recognize any interrupts, they won't respond to ping, and
th
On 17 September 2012 17:20, Garrett Cooper wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 8:02 AM, Chris Rees wrote:
>> On 16 September 2012 10:11, Garrett Cooper wrote:
>>> I noticed that we have a handful of patterns currently ignored in
>>> svn:ignore (at least at the top-level… the lower levels d
Il 17/09/2012 22:55, Mike Meyer ha scritto:
> You requested that this work be done. Then you did it again in several
> places, the first one being here:
> [...]
Maybe I did (as you might notice my English is not very good :) ), but I
thought it was clear that I'd like to cooperate in this.
> Wi
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 8:02 AM, Chris Rees wrote:
> On 16 September 2012 10:11, Garrett Cooper wrote:
>> I noticed that we have a handful of patterns currently ignored in
>> svn:ignore (at least at the top-level… the lower levels don't appear to be
>> set in any particular manner):
>>
On 09/17/12 21:13, Zhihao Yuan wrote:
1. Maximize graphical user experience by officially implementing Wifi
helpers, auto-mounters;
I think your examples are ill conceived.
A good automounter definitely does not need a GUI. What I think of as a
autmounter should just be some kind of backgroun
Lorenzo Cogotti wrote:
>Il 17/09/2012 20:32, Garrett Cooper ha scritto:
>> *gathers breath for really tangential/OT rant*
>>
>>
>> Sounds like we have someone volunteering to write a chapter in the
>> handbook and do some X11 development to make Gnome, KDE, XFCE, LXDE,
>> Fluxbox, [...], or etc
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 12:50 PM, Steffen Daode wrote:
> |> Hi,
> |> I was wondering about the possibility of FreeBSD to provide an official
> |> supported graphical environment.
>
> What i really miss compared to 4.* and 5.3 (and compared to NetBSD
> and OpenBSD) is that there is a single pack
Guys,
what do you think of the following two diffs?
Most likely I overdid various checks in libi386/comconsole.c.
And, obviously, the RETRY_COUNT value is pulled out of thin air.
Any help and suggestions are very welcome.
With this patch I am able to boot with
boot_multicons="YES"
console="vidc
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 12:01 PM, Lorenzo Cogotti wrote:
> Il 17/09/2012 20:32, Garrett Cooper ha scritto:
>> *gathers breath for really tangential/OT rant*
>>
>>
>> Sounds like we have someone volunteering to write a chapter in the
>> handbook and do some X11 development to make Gnome, KDE, XFCE
Mike Meyer http://www.mired.org/
mwm?
Why! It's my preferred WM,
part of x11-toolkits/open-motif.
Talk about coincidences!
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http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-hackers
To unsu
Am 17.09.12 17:42, schrieb Poul-Henning Kamp:
> In message , Lorenzo Cogotti
> writ
> es:
>> Hi,
>> I was wondering about the possibility of FreeBSD to provide an official
>> supported graphical environment.
>
> We already do: It's called "X11" :-)
and for the fun of it: CDE has been opensourc
Il 17/09/2012 21:13, Matthias Andree ha scritto:
>
> What is the particular problem? All major toolkits ultimately talk X11,
> and most applications that I have seen will work in any desktop environment.
Working with any desktop environments is different than working well,
taking full advantage
Am 17.09.2012 19:51, schrieb Lorenzo Cogotti:
> Il 17/09/2012 19:26, Adrian Chadd ha scritto:
>> What are you trying to achieve?
>>
>> Are you trying to write a set of utilities for FreeBSD that are GUI in
>> nature? And you'd like to know which toolkit is "blessed" for a
>> consistent, integrated
|> Hi,
|> I was wondering about the possibility of FreeBSD to provide an official
|> supported graphical environment.
What i really miss compared to 4.* and 5.3 (and compared to NetBSD
and OpenBSD) is that there is a single package with a known name
that can be downloaded and unpacked and you h
Am 17.09.2012 17:35, schrieb Lorenzo Cogotti:
> Hi,
> I was wondering about the possibility of FreeBSD to provide an official
> supported graphical environment.
> Currently FreeBSD doesn't provide any standard desktop environment, this
> means that, in a way much similar to Linux, a developer cann
Hi, hackers:
First, I'm not saying that I want an OS forcing you to installs a DE.
If FreeBSD really does this, I'm going to switch to other BSDs :)
The word "default" has nothing to do with "installed by default". It
only means, when we are taking about "the" desktop environment under
FreeBSD, w
Il 17/09/2012 20:32, Garrett Cooper ha scritto:
> *gathers breath for really tangential/OT rant*
>
>
> Sounds like we have someone volunteering to write a chapter in the
> handbook and do some X11 development to make Gnome, KDE, XFCE, LXDE,
> Fluxbox, [...], or etc work better on FreeBSD!
>
If I
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 11:09 AM, Zhihao Yuan wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 1:05 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp
> wrote:
>> In message
>>
>> , Zhihao Yuan writes:
>>
>>>Well, let's make it more straightforward. I hope people can agree with
>>>this: a default, officially supported modern desktop envi
I spent years using Linux before I truly appreciated the key difference between
a "desktop environment" and a "graphical environment". Probably because
everyone had to have a desktop environment.
I define graphical environment as simply X11 and a window manager. That's all
you need to run Fire
On 17 Sep 2012 17:22, "Tom Evans" wrote:
>
> On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 5:00 PM, Zhihao Yuan wrote:
> > I definitely agree with this. Sun has a book, "UNIX Essentials
> > featuring the Solaris...", and GUI takes a big part in the book. A
> > default GUI is essential to a modern UNIX. FreeBSD can no
In message
, Zhihao Yuan writes:
>Well, let's make it more straightforward. I hope people can agree with
>this: a default, officially supported modern desktop environment is
>essential to FreeBSD.
No, it is not.
It would certainly be nice to have as an option, but I would hate
to have to deal w
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 1:05 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
> In message
>
> , Zhihao Yuan writes:
>
>>Well, let's make it more straightforward. I hope people can agree with
>>this: a default, officially supported modern desktop environment is
>>essential to FreeBSD.
>
> No, it is not.
>
> It woul
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 10:51 AM, Lorenzo Cogotti wrote:
> Il 17/09/2012 19:26, Adrian Chadd ha scritto:
>> What are you trying to achieve?
> Right now I was interested in creating a desktop oriented automounter,
> in order to experiment with devd (I don't know if something useful will
> actually
Il 17/09/2012 19:26, Adrian Chadd ha scritto:
> What are you trying to achieve?
>
> Are you trying to write a set of utilities for FreeBSD that are GUI in
> nature? And you'd like to know which toolkit is "blessed" for a
> consistent, integrated feel and development environment?
>
>
>
> Adrian
>
R
>From a programmer's point of view, GUI is a protocol, a graphical
language. It's true. But users don't care. Users don't care how their
graphical commands are being implemented.
Well, let's make it more straightforward. I hope people can agree with
this: a default, officially supported modern des
What are you trying to achieve?
Are you trying to write a set of utilities for FreeBSD that are GUI in
nature? And you'd like to know which toolkit is "blessed" for a
consistent, integrated feel and development environment?
Adrian
___
freebsd-hackers@
On Mon, 17 Sep 2012 11:40:33 -0500
Zhihao Yuan wrote:
> GUI is a concept. People can use WM or DE as their GUIs. X11 is not
> usable from a user's point of view, so it's out of the question. So
> far, your statement "Assume X11 _is_ the graphical environment" is
> already nonsense.
As someone who
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 8:35 AM, Lorenzo Cogotti wrote:
> Hi,
...
Replying more to the Wayland comments, yes..
FreeBSD/NetBSD/OpenBSD need to implement the Wayland `protocol`
because xorg-server development is slowly being killed over time, but
unfortunately that work is not slotted by anyon
Il 17/09/2012 18:20, Tom Evans ha scritto:
> On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 5:00 PM, Zhihao Yuan wrote:
>> I definitely agree with this. Sun has a book, "UNIX Essentials
>> featuring the Solaris...", and GUI takes a big part in the book. A
>> default GUI is essential to a modern UNIX. FreeBSD can no long
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 11:00:21AM -0500, Zhihao Yuan wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 10:35 AM, Lorenzo Cogotti
> wrote:
> > Hi,
> > I was wondering about the possibility of FreeBSD to provide an official
> > supported graphical environment.
> >
> > Currently FreeBSD doesn't provide any standard
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 11:28 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
> In message
>
> , Zhihao Yuan writes:
>>On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
>
>>> My suggest was 100% serious: Assume X11 _is_ the graphical
>>> environment, pick a toolkit which is written to work with
>>> any
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 11:14 AM, Lars Engels wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 11:00:21AM -0500, Zhihao Yuan wrote:
>> On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 10:35 AM, Lorenzo Cogotti
>> wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> > I was wondering about the possibility of FreeBSD to provide an official
>> > supported graphical enviro
In message
, Zhihao Yuan writes:
>On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
>> My suggest was 100% serious: Assume X11 _is_ the graphical
>> environment, pick a toolkit which is written to work with
>> any window manager, which all good toolkits are, and move on.
>
>You can "as
On 09/17/12 11:14, Lorenzo Cogotti wrote:
Il 17/09/2012 17:42, Poul-Henning Kamp ha scritto:
In message , Lorenzo Cogotti writ
es:
Hi,
I was wondering about the possibility of FreeBSD to provide an official
supported graphical environment.
We already do: It's called "X11" :-)
(sending back
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 11:20 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
> In message
>
> , Zhihao Yuan writes:
>>On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp
>>wrote:
>>> In message , Lorenzo Cogotti
>>> writ
>>> es:
Hi,
I was wondering about the possibility of FreeBSD to provide an officia
In message
, Zhihao Yuan writes:
>On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp
>wrote:
>> In message , Lorenzo Cogotti
>> writ
>> es:
>>>Hi,
>>>I was wondering about the possibility of FreeBSD to provide an official
>>>supported graphical environment.
>>
>> We already do: It's called "X
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 5:00 PM, Zhihao Yuan wrote:
> I definitely agree with this. Sun has a book, "UNIX Essentials
> featuring the Solaris...", and GUI takes a big part in the book. A
> default GUI is essential to a modern UNIX. FreeBSD can no longer
> regard GUI as a third-party bonus.
This is
Il 17/09/2012 17:42, Poul-Henning Kamp ha scritto:
> In message , Lorenzo Cogotti
> writ
> es:
>> Hi,
>> I was wondering about the possibility of FreeBSD to provide an official
>> supported graphical environment.
> We already do: It's called "X11" :-)
>
(sending back to mailing list due to a mis
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
> In message , Lorenzo Cogotti
> writ
> es:
>>Hi,
>>I was wondering about the possibility of FreeBSD to provide an official
>>supported graphical environment.
>
> We already do: It's called "X11" :-)
How about Wikipedia "graphical envir
On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 10:35 AM, Lorenzo Cogotti wrote:
> Hi,
> I was wondering about the possibility of FreeBSD to provide an official
> supported graphical environment.
>
> Currently FreeBSD doesn't provide any standard desktop environment, this
> means that, in a way much similar to Linux, a d
In message , Lorenzo Cogotti writ
es:
>Hi,
>I was wondering about the possibility of FreeBSD to provide an official
>supported graphical environment.
We already do: It's called "X11" :-)
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
p...@freebsd.org | TCP/IP since RFC 956
Free
Hi,
I was wondering about the possibility of FreeBSD to provide an official
supported graphical environment.
Currently FreeBSD doesn't provide any standard desktop environment, this
means that, in a way much similar to Linux, a developer cannot know in
advance which GUI will be available on the sy
On Friday, September 14, 2012 1:32:43 am Vijay Singh wrote:
> Need some expert help. I have a system that is hung hard, and I was
> able to get it into gdb. From show_vmstat I see:
>
> (kgdb-amd64-7.4-95) show_vmstat
> SYSTEM MEMORY INFORMATION:
> mem_wire: 285970432 (272MB) Wired: dis
On Mon, 17 Sep 2012, Tom Evans wrote:
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 8:12 PM, Jeff Anton wrote:
… my point is that all this information needs to be
together in one human and machine readable form. We need to be able to look
at the whole picture of a device and say "that makes sense" then do it. And
On 17 Sep 2012 12:58, "Wojciech Puchar"
wrote:
>>
>> IMHO, gpart and GEOM are fantastic.
>
>
> anyway it is MUCH easier and faster to edit disklabels with bsdlabel -e
than with gpart.
>
> Unfortunately since some time bsdlabel cannot edit labels if ANY of
partitions are open.
You may be more fami
IMHO, gpart and GEOM are fantastic.
anyway it is MUCH easier and faster to edit disklabels with bsdlabel -e
than with gpart.
Unfortunately since some time bsdlabel cannot edit labels if ANY of
partitions are open.
___
freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org m
Chris Rees wrote:
> On 16 September 2012 10:23, Julian H. Stacey wrote:
> > This is a resend as Benjamin Kaduk
> > dropped the
> > Yuri
> > from CC line, & Yuri was the original first poster in thread who
> > my patch would presumably have helped.
> >
> > Reference:
> >> From: Be
On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 8:12 PM, Jeff Anton wrote:
>… my point is that all this information needs to be
> together in one human and machine readable form. We need to be able to look
> at the whole picture of a device and say "that makes sense" then do it. And
> this shouldn't be from some GUI ju
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