On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 02:49:37PM -0400, DJ Delorie wrote:
What about high precision ADCs? I'm working on a design using ADE7753
power monitor chips (16-bit ADCs) , and their own app note (AN564)
shows a ferrite isolating analog ground, and a 10R resistor isolating
AVdd.
I don't see any URLs in there..
-Dave
On Oct 29, 2008, at 6:08 PM, Steve Meier wrote:
I went looking to see if the Analog Device book was available
electronically. Here are the links.
Steve Meier
High Speed System Applications Table of Contents
High Speed System
Dave,
No I struggled three times to get usable url's so go down a couple more
of my attempts and then you will have to take the line breaks out of the
ultra long url but you can get there.
Steve Meier
On Thu, 2008-10-30 at 16:29 -0400, Dave McGuire wrote:
I don't see any URLs in there..
Steve,
I don't see these other attempts.
Eric Winsor
Steve Meier wrote:
Dave,
No I struggled three times to get usable url's so go down a couple more
of my attempts and then you will have to take the line breaks out of the
ultra long url but you can get there.
Steve Meier
On Thu,
Ok ok ok go to my home page and look for links to hs table of contents
and hs section 1 through 4
http://www.alchemyresearch.com/
Steve Meier
On Thu, 2008-10-30 at 16:29 -0400, Dave McGuire wrote:
I don't see any URLs in there..
-Dave
On Oct 29, 2008, at 6:08 PM, Steve Meier
Were you trying to format them with HTML?
I bet the HTML filters on the mailing list were cutting out the links.
On Oct 30, 2008, at 2:44 PM, Eric Winsor wrote:
Steve,
I don't see these other attempts.
Eric Winsor
Steve Meier wrote:
Dave,
No I struggled three times to get usable url's
No the first attempt was a cut and paste that didn't bring the url with
it though an html filter would have removed it. The second and third
attempts I was responding only too myself. Good thing too as I was
getting frustrated with how my email tool automatically breaks lines
into pieces. And the
On Tue, 2008-10-28 at 20:47 -0400, DJ Delorie wrote:
Joerg [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
By now I'd say Prehistoric Digital Assistant. The only guy I know
who actually still uses one is our pastor.
I have one I use every day, but it's in my watch.
So that watch isn't on a wrist band it is
I have one I use every day, but it's in my watch.
So that watch isn't on a wrist band it is on an adjustable crane hook.
Heh, I suppose.
FYI it's a Timex Ironman USB. Very useful watch.
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DJ Delorie wrote:
I have one I use every day, but it's in my watch.
So that watch isn't on a wrist band it is on an adjustable crane hook.
Heh, I suppose.
FYI it's a Timex Ironman USB. Very useful watch.
But can you talk to it with Linux?
Eric (who still uses a VR3 - mostly to play
But can you talk to it with Linux?
I don't, but I think you can. There's an SDK and emulator from the
timex yahoo group folks.
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I went looking to see if the Analog Device book was available
electronically. Here are the links.
Steve Meier
High Speed System Applications Table of Contents
High Speed System Applications Section 1: High Speed Data Conversion
Overview
High Speed System Applications Section 2:
Stefan Salewski wrote:
Sometimes it is necessary/recommended to partition (separate) power or
ground planes, i.e. for ADC or DC/DC-Converters, see page 16 and 17 in
http://focus.ti.com/lit/ug/slwu028c/slwu028c.pdf
We can do this in pcb program with (adjoining) polygons.
Disadvantage is,
In my 20+ years in engineering I have yet to see one case where
splitting a ground plane under high-speed ADCs has worked.
What about high precision ADCs? I'm working on a design using ADE7753
power monitor chips (16-bit ADCs) , and their own app note (AN564)
shows a ferrite isolating analog
Sometimes it is necessary/recommended to partition (separate) power or
ground planes, i.e. for ADC or DC/DC-Converters, see page 16 and 17 in
http://focus.ti.com/lit/ug/slwu028c/slwu028c.pdf
We can do this in pcb program with (adjoining) polygons.
Disadvantage is, that if we change the size
App notes and example designs are special cases: there is only
one chip straddling the analog and digital divide. If you have
more than one (e.g., both an ADC and a DAC) all those ideas
pretty much go out the window, and you're better off with a
single ground plane.
I have 16 of these
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 02:49:37PM -0400, DJ Delorie wrote:
What about high precision ADCs? I'm working on a design using ADE7753
power monitor chips (16-bit ADCs) , and their own app note (AN564)
shows a ferrite isolating analog ground, and a 10R resistor isolating
AVdd.
DJ Delorie wrote:
In my 20+ years in engineering I have yet to see one case where
splitting a ground plane under high-speed ADCs has worked.
What about high precision ADCs? I'm working on a design using ADE7753
power monitor chips (16-bit ADCs) , and their own app note (AN564)
shows a
DJ -
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 03:09:37PM -0400, DJ Delorie wrote:
App notes and example designs are special cases: there is only
one chip straddling the analog and digital divide. If you have
more than one (e.g., both an ADC and a DAC) all those ideas
pretty much go out the window, and
Your board looks decent. What kind of voltage resolution are you
looking for (e.g., what IC are Uxx0)?
Those are the ADE7753 chips. In theory, they're accurate enough to
meet all the IEC standards for power metering, but in my case, I only
need to know where all my kWh are going so I know
DJ -
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 12:49:51PM -0700, Larry Doolittle wrote:
Your board looks decent. What kind of voltage resolution are you
looking for (e.g., what IC are Uxx0)?
I see now, ADE7753ARSZ, $3.834 in 25's at DigiKey. 16-bit Sigma-Delta
under the hood. Good luck with that.
The first
Stuart Brorson wrote:
[...]
Therefore, the folks at National Semiconductor push the idea that you
place analog and digital components as far away from one anther as
possible on your board. Also, keep analog and digital signal tracks
as separated as possible. But use a *single* solid ground
I guess your layout will need at least one more rev before you
can get to the noise limit of that chip. OTOH, maybe that isn't
the goal.
My goal is: figure out why my electric bill is so high :-)
I do really like the idea behind that board! I have a Kill-A-Watt
at home. It's really
I won't argue this point. I will refer every one to an Analog Device
publication High Speed System Applications copyright 2006 ISBN-10:
1-56619-909-3 or ISBN-13: 978-1-56619-909-4
In particular if you get a copy of this book (and they gave me mine)
look at pages 4.15 and 4.16
There AD
yes it helps immensely to have a low pass filter issolating a device
from the power planes.
Steve Meier
On Tue, 2008-10-28 at 14:49 -0400, DJ Delorie wrote:
In my 20+ years in engineering I have yet to see one case where
splitting a ground plane under high-speed ADCs has worked.
What
DJ Delorie wrote:
I guess your layout will need at least one more rev before you
can get to the noise limit of that chip. OTOH, maybe that isn't
the goal.
My goal is: figure out why my electric bill is so high :-)
Another nice tool: Maybe you could borrow a FLIR camera. That would show
Joerg -
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 02:07:30PM -0700, Joerg wrote:
Tried to load your layout but got an error and I could not find any
pointers via web search.
Error parsing file ...
line: 801
description: font position out of range
I hit this too. I just deleted the Symbol that tarts on
Another nice tool: Maybe you could borrow a FLIR camera. That would
show every ever so slight hot spot in a room, like something that
consumes a couple of watts of standby power but has long since been
forgotten.
That won't help me figure out how often the well pump runs. It's 480
feet
Nearly impossible? I disagree here it is standard practice.
Analog signals come in and go out the left side of the board and digital
is in the center to the right side.
Top analog is separated from the bottom analog.
Here is the deal. We start with a signal less the one milli volt and we
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 5:31 PM, DJ Delorie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
At the moment, though, I don't have any idea where the
power is going. I suspect my computers are eating a big chunk, but
there are a LOT of other things in the house that are suspect.
You may want to check power factor.
You may want to check power factor.
Perhaps you're thinking of power efficiency? You don't pay for power
factor problems (imaginary power).
Don't you have a number of PCs running 24x7?
Yup, at least six of them.
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On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 6:53 PM, DJ Delorie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You may want to check power factor.
Perhaps you're thinking of power efficiency? You don't pay for power
factor problems (imaginary power).
Efficiency is probably low. Power factor is probably low too.
I believe the
I believe the utility charges for Volt-Amperes (VA).
Nope, they charge for real watts.
If your PF is too far from 1, they make you install capacitors
(usually, or inductors) to balance your load to keep the PF near 1.
It doesn't change your electric bill, though.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of DJ Delorie
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 6:54 PM
To: geda-user@moria.seul.org
Subject: Re: gEDA-user: pcb, howto partition power planes?
You may want to check power factor.
Perhaps you're
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 7:11 PM, DJ Delorie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I believe the utility charges for Volt-Amperes (VA).
Nope, they charge for real watts.
If your PF is too far from 1, they make you install capacitors
(usually, or inductors) to balance your load to keep the PF near 1.
It
I haven't heard of a power factor requirement for a residence.
I was referring to businesses, which often have enough inductive
motors to cause problems.
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DJ Delorie wrote:
Another nice tool: Maybe you could borrow a FLIR camera. That would
show every ever so slight hot spot in a room, like something that
consumes a couple of watts of standby power but has long since been
forgotten.
That won't help me figure out how often the well pump runs.
On Oct 28, 2008, at 7:21 PM, Joerg wrote:
Well, 23MWh is huge. Unless you guys heat with electricity. Computers
will be a mere drop in the bucket there.
Are you sure? Real computers have wheels. ;)
-Dave
--
Dave McGuire
Port Charlotte, FL
That's going to be more serious work. Holding tanks, fine control of
pressure and so on.
Well, it's more like oh, the well uses X kwh, can't do anything about
that.
Oh, and if you have teenage girls tell them that the daily shower does
not have to exceed 30 minutes/person ;-)
I have two
Dave McGuire wrote:
On Oct 28, 2008, at 7:21 PM, Joerg wrote:
Well, 23MWh is huge. Unless you guys heat with electricity. Computers
will be a mere drop in the bucket there.
Are you sure? Real computers have wheels. ;)
Nah, real computers like the ones my pa dealt with have hooks on
Joerg [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
By now I'd say Prehistoric Digital Assistant. The only guy I know
who actually still uses one is our pastor.
I have one I use every day, but it's in my watch.
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On Oct 28, 2008, at 8:45 PM, Joerg wrote:
If I ever get back to working on an open source PDA I will be
sure to
include a crane hook.
PDA == Preposterous Digital Assistant =)
By now I'd say Prehistoric Digital Assistant. The only guy I know
who
actually still uses one is our pastor.
Dave McGuire wrote:
On Oct 28, 2008, at 8:45 PM, Joerg wrote:
If I ever get back to working on an open source PDA I will be
sure to
include a crane hook.
PDA == Preposterous Digital Assistant =)
By now I'd say Prehistoric Digital Assistant. The only guy I know
who
actually still
DJ Delorie wrote:
In my 20+ years in engineering I have yet to see one case where
splitting a ground plane under high-speed ADCs has worked.
What about high precision ADCs? I'm working on a design using ADE7753
power monitor chips (16-bit ADCs) , and their own app note (AN564)
shows a
Larry Doolittle wrote:
All modern PCs come with high efficiency DC-DC converters
built-in. They just get fed from rectified line voltage.
Feed them 300VDC (from the aforementioned PF corrected
front end) and they work much better. At least that's
what some server farms have started doing.
John -
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 10:11:38PM -0500, John Griessen wrote:
Larry Doolittle wrote:
I have seen exactly one case where a split (very carefully done)
on the ground plane was needed to avoid a source of ground return
crosstalk.
I'd like to hear more about that, if you will.
The
Sometimes it is necessary/recommended to partition (separate) power or
ground planes, i.e. for ADC or DC/DC-Converters, see page 16 and 17 in
http://focus.ti.com/lit/ug/slwu028c/slwu028c.pdf
We can do this in pcb program with (adjoining) polygons.
Disadvantage is, that if we change the size of
I typically deal with this by separating the planes at the schematic
level using a bead-core inductor. The two planes are then on different
nets at the PCB level. This not only makes it easier to do the routing
but they also serve an electrical purpose of isolating the two planes
from a high
Am Montag, den 27.10.2008, 11:59 -0400 schrieb Neil Webster:
I typically deal with this by separating the planes at the schematic
level using a bead-core inductor. The two planes are then on different
nets at the PCB level. This not only makes it easier to do the routing
but they also serve an
I typically deal with this by separating the planes at the schematic
level using a bead-core inductor.
Yes, I also have GND and AGND in my schematics.
Don't put inductors between ground planes, connect them at a star
point. If you are going to use inductors then have them on the power
side,
Am Montag, den 27.10.2008, 19:47 +0200 schrieb Duncan Drennan:
Yes, I also have GND and AGND in my schematics.
Don't put inductors between ground planes, connect them at a star
point. If you are going to use inductors then have them on the power
side, not between grounds.
I think so
On Mon, 27 Oct 2008 19:47:32 +0200, Duncan Drennan wrote:
How do I best divide a copper area (physically) into subsections with
complicated shape/outline.
Is there a good way to do this with PCB?
If you want to partially divide a polygon:
* Draw lines on copper with zero thickness but
Am Montag, den 27.10.2008, 18:17 + schrieb Kai-Martin Knaak:
On Mon, 27 Oct 2008 19:47:32 +0200, Duncan Drennan wrote:
How do I best divide a copper area (physically) into subsections with
complicated shape/outline.
Is there a good way to do this with PCB?
If you want to
I agree with Niel, I separate my ground planes with a symbol for a power
inductor. I do this at the schematic level and then I read the layout
suggestions typically provided by the A/D data sheet on where to connect
the planes. For the fab I put in the power inductor foot print. You can
then use
On the issue of powering boards I have been playing with some really
neat programmable power supply controllers (surface mount chip) that
support power supply modules. Prices of the modules seem to be
comparable to the prices of the individual components one would need to
build various forms of
On Mon, 27 Oct 2008 19:47:52 +0100, Stefan Salewski wrote:
* Draw lines on copper with zero thickness but finite clearance.
Does this really result in legal Gerber files -- would be not so nice if
a few manufacturers can not handle it.
I didn't check the Gerber specs. My favorite fab
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