Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments requested: succ Java

It's the early adopters who develop the first libraries that pull in ever wider audiences. Yes, the early adopters are drawn by the syntax of the language, but commercial adoption doesn't come until it's economically competitive to do so. And that doesn't happen until the library market i

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments requested: succ Java

John A. De Goes wrote: > write them yourself (at a cost of several to dozens of man years), Is that right? -- Tony Morris http://tmorris.net/ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-ca

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments requested: succ Java

You misunderstood my point. The browser, BigTable clone, and peer-to- peer networking libraries are starting points for applications -- ones that I've actually needed at various points in my career. You can grab them and start developing with them in a few minutes. If you want these compon

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments requested: succ Java

> "Michael" == Michael Snoyman writes: Michael> not be written in pure Haskell, but then again I'm not Michael> sure if there are any fully W3 compliant browsers *not* Michael> written in C++. I'm not sure if there are any fully W3 compliant browsers. How could there be? It would

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments requested: succ Java

On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 4:13 PM, John A. De Goes wrote: > > If you have counterexamples, then perhaps you can name them. I'm looking > for Java shops with 5+ developers and code bases of > 100k converting over > to Haskell. I don't know _any such shop_ that has switched to Haskell, and I > doubt

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments requested: succ Java

Curt Sampson wrote: I've been hearing that having lots of libraries is an insurmountable advantage, and you're doomed if you give them up, since long before I took up Haskell. It's mostly myth promulgated by people driven by fear. I'm sure it's the case in some shops that they have lots of people

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments requested: succ Java

On 29/09/2009, at 1:59 AM, Peter Verswyvelen wrote: That's a really shame. Any idea why? On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 3:02 PM, John A. De Goes wrote: CAL is interesting, but unfortunately dead, and has no community. I think Haskell users would miss too many of the post 98 extensions -- ove

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments requested: succ Java

I think they made a mistake choosing a syntax so close to Haskell: 1. It's close enough to Haskell to attract Haskellers; 2. It's far enough away from Haskell to push Haskellers away; 3. It's not the language one would design if one were prioritizing easy interop with Java in

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments requested: succ Java

2009/09/28 John A. De Goes : > Libraries are _everything_... Not exactly. Python would never have gotten a foothold over Perl, nor Java over C, if cleaner language semantics weren't enough for some shops or certain applications. -- Jason Dusek ___

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments requested: succ Java

Ok, my last post on this for real this time. On 2009-09-28 08:13 -0600 (Mon), John A. De Goes wrote: > Let me ask you this question: how long would it take you to get an > HTML/CSS, W3 compliant browser in Haskell? A long time. On the other hand, by grabbing a copy of Mozilla, I'll have one fa

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments requested: succ Java

That's a really shame. Any idea why? On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 3:02 PM, John A. De Goes wrote: > > CAL is interesting, but unfortunately dead, and has no community. > > Regards, > > John A. De Goes > N-Brain, Inc. > The Evolution of Collaboration > > http://www.n-brain.net|877-376-2724 x 10

RE: [Haskell-cafe] Comments requested: succ Java

> From: haskell-cafe-boun...@haskell.org > [mailto:haskell-cafe-boun...@haskell.org] On Behalf Of Edward > Middleton > > > > If you have counterexamples, then perhaps you can name > them. I'm looking > > for Java shops with 5+ developers and code bases of > 100k > converting > > over to Haskel

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments requested: succ Java

John A. De Goes wrote: > > If you have counterexamples, then perhaps you can name them. I'm looking > for Java shops with 5+ developers and code bases of > 100k converting > over to Haskell. I don't know _any such shop_ that has switched to > Haskell, and I doubt any exist, but I'd be delighted to

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments requested: succ Java

If you have counterexamples, then perhaps you can name them. I'm looking for Java shops with 5+ developers and code bases of > 100k converting over to Haskell. I don't know _any such shop_ that has switched to Haskell, and I doubt any exist, but I'd be delighted to learn I'm wrong. Let

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments requested: succ Java

On 2009-09-28 07:01 -0600 (Mon), John A. De Goes wrote: > And I stand by my statement that no Java shop is going to switch over > to Haskell I have counterexamples. So "pt!" > ...or the _billions of dollars_ worth of commercial- > friendly open source libraries available for the Java pl

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments requested: succ Java

CAL is interesting, but unfortunately dead, and has no community. Regards, John A. De Goes N-Brain, Inc. The Evolution of Collaboration http://www.n-brain.net|877-376-2724 x 101 On Sep 27, 2009, at 3:38 PM, Peter Verswyvelen wrote: That's not really true. Just use CAL from the Open Q

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments requested: succ Java

Interop between Haskell and Java is too difficult to be practical. And I stand by my statement that no Java shop is going to switch over to Haskell, precisely because they cannot afford to abandon either their existing investment, or the _billions of dollars_ worth of commercial- friendly

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments requested: succ Java

On 2009-09-28 11:13 +0400 (Mon), Bulat Ziganshin wrote: > > http://www.starling-software.com/en/blog/drafts/2009/09/27.succ-java-summary.html > > what are the types of balance and interest in balance * interest > expression? ;) I dunno, but I think it's not really relevant to the point of the ex

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments requested: succ Java

Hello Curt, Sunday, September 27, 2009, 8:16:53 PM, you wrote: > http://www.starling-software.com/en/blog/drafts/2009/09/27.succ-java-summary.html what are the types of balance and interest in balance * interest expression? ;) -- Best regards, Bulatmailto:bulat.z

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments requested: succ Java

On 28/09/2009, at 7:38 AM, Peter Verswyvelen wrote: That's not really true. Just use CAL from the Open Quark framework... It's almost Haskell 98, with some extras, and compiles to fast JVM code. http://openquark.org/Open_Quark/Welcome.html They even seem to do all kinds of advanced optimi

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments requested: succ Java

On 2009-09-27 10:36 -0600 (Sun), John A. De Goes wrote: > I'm not sure what the point of your series is. No one who is using Java > now commercially can move to Haskell because Haskell doesn't run on the > JVM. That's a rather strong statement, and I don't accept it. I can not only think of man

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments requested: succ Java

That's not really true. Just use CAL from the Open Quark framework... It's almost Haskell 98, with some extras, and compiles to fast JVM code. http://openquark.org/Open_Quark/Welcome.html They even seem to do all kinds of advanced optimizations - like

Re: [Haskell-cafe] Comments requested: succ Java

I'm not sure what the point of your series is. No one who is using Java now commercially can move to Haskell because Haskell doesn't run on the JVM. It makes sense to discuss Clojure, Groovy, JRuby, Scala, Fan, etc., as "next Java's", because they all run on the JVM and have seamless in