Re: [luau] ics412: operating systems

2002-10-26 Thread William N Luoma
I checked the /usr/ccs/lib directory. no relevant libs. Ran `nm -Cp libstdc++.a` and found the symbols for stl-inst.o, the object file for "instantiation" file stl-inst.cc. No references to my missing symbol. I think the lib just wasn't built right. Thanks for your time. Bill > /usr/local/lib/

Re: [luau] ics412: operating systems

2002-10-26 Thread Jimen Ching
On Sat, 26 Oct 2002, William N Luoma wrote: > /usr/local/lib/gcc-lib/sparc-sun-solaris2.8/3.0.4/collect2 -V -Y >P,/usr/ccs/lib:/usr/lib -Qy -o map >/usr/local/lib/gcc-lib/sparc-sun-solaris2.8/3.0.4/crt1.o >/usr/local/lib/gcc-lib/sparc-sun-solaris2.8/3.0.4/crti.o >/usr/ccs/lib/values-Xa.o >/usr/loca

Re: [luau] ics412: operating systems

2002-10-26 Thread William N Luoma
nice trick that: Script started on Sat Oct 26 05:59:49 2002 jefferson:/home/luoma/map$ g++ -v -o map map.cpp Reading specs from /usr/local/lib/gcc-lib/sparc-sun-solaris2.8/3.0.4/specs Configured with: ../gcc-3.0.4/configure --with-gnu-ld --with-gnu-as Thread model: posix gcc version 3.0.4 /usr/lo

Re: [luau] ics412: operating systems

2002-10-25 Thread Jimen Ching
On Fri, 25 Oct 2002, William N Luoma wrote: >jefferson:/home/luoma/map$ g++ -omap map.cpp >/var/tmp/ccwiw3cN.o: In function `std::_Rb_treestd::pairstd::allocator > >, std::_Select1ststd::vector > > >, >std::less, std::allocatorstd::vector > > > >>::_M_empty_initialize()': Could you run this comm

Re: [luau] ics412: operating systems

2002-10-25 Thread William N Luoma
Jimen Ching, thank you very much for your comments. Here is the -v from gcc and more.B Script started on Sat Oct 26 04:20:06 2002 jefferson:/home/luoma$ g++ -v Reading specs from /usr/local/lib/gcc-lib/sparc-sun-solaris2.8/3.0.4/specs Configured with: ../gcc-3.0.4/configure --with-gnu-ld --with-

Re: [luau] ics412: operating systems

2002-10-25 Thread Jimen Ching
On Fri, 25 Oct 2002, William N Luoma wrote: >I suppose this might relate to how Eric H? was "complaining" about >C++ being "hard to compile". If so, then that's hardly a C++ language problem. You can't blame a language because some SA didn't install the tools correctly. >I did some grepping arou

Re: [luau] ics412: operating systems

2002-10-25 Thread William N Luoma
I suppose this might relate to how Eric H? was "complaining" about C++ being "hard to compile". I use a solaris 2.8 box at a virginia.edu address, which was recently hacked. It took the SAs about a week to regen everything and when they had finished, I couldn't compile g++ programs that referenced

Re: [luau] ics412: operating systems

2002-10-24 Thread Warren Togami
On Thu, 2002-10-24 at 22:15, Jimen Ching wrote: > On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, Dustin Cross wrote: > >This got me interested, so I started doing some reading. BeOS is based on > >a microkernel, written in C, everything else in the OS is done via servers > >which were written in C++. > > This makes more s

Re: [luau] ics412: operating systems

2002-10-24 Thread Jimen Ching
On Thu, 24 Oct 2002, Dustin Cross wrote: >This got me interested, so I started doing some reading. BeOS is based on >a microkernel, written in C, everything else in the OS is done via servers >which were written in C++. This makes more sense. The Be people can call them servers. But they're jus

Re: [luau] ics412: operating systems

2002-10-24 Thread Dustin Cross
Aloha, This got me interested, so I started doing some reading. BeOS is based on a microkernel, written in C, everything else in the OS is done via servers which were written in C++. The servers are: Application Server - provides the functionality for creating apps and their associated windows

Re: [luau] ics412: operating systems

2002-10-24 Thread Jimen Ching
On Tue, 22 Oct 2002, Dustin Cross wrote: >BeOS was written in C++ and it was one of the best operating systems I have >ever used. It was fast and efficient. Do you know if they use exceptions, STL, and RTTI? These aren't the main features of C++, but I can't imagine an OS using these things. Th

Re: [luau] ics412: operating systems

2002-10-23 Thread T. David Burns
At 11:12 PM 10/22/2002 -1000, Ray Strode wrote: I think also that people tend to love the language they used seriously first. Yeah. Maybe it was my good fortune to learn on languages so flakey that no one could love them - first program in raw machine code (not even an assembler on that machi

Re: [luau] ics412: operating systems

2002-10-23 Thread Eric Hattemer
What I really meant by this is that C tends to compile just fine with gcc and some kernel libraries. C++ always requires odd libraries like libstdc++, which change so often I can never get a C++ library version that properly matches the version that was required for the program. Redhat had an old

Re: [luau] ics412: operating systems

2002-10-22 Thread Ray Strode
I assume you mean for applications? This seems to be the consensus. I don't know why people still use C for large applications, like GNOME. C++ would be a much better choice. C offers more portability and better abi compatibility than C++. C++ compilers tend to be more buggy than C (which c

Re: [luau] ics412: operating systems

2002-10-22 Thread Dustin Cross
Aloha, BeOS was written in C++ and it was one of the best operating systems I have ever used. It was fast and efficient. Dusty > I assume you mean for applications? This seems to be the consensus. I > don't know why people still use C for large applications, like GNOME. > C++ would be a much

Re: [luau] ics412: operating systems

2002-10-22 Thread Jimen Ching
On Tue, 22 Oct 2002, Eric Hattemer wrote: >Sometimes I do feel like C is obsolete compared to C++, though. I assume you mean for applications? This seems to be the consensus. I don't know why people still use C for large applications, like GNOME. C++ would be a much better choice. But for syste

Re: [luau] ics412: operating systems

2002-10-21 Thread Eric Hattemer
I didn't mean to imply that any univeristy thinks C is obsolete. I was just exagerating to point out that some universities get people hooked on procedures and C, and others get people hooked on objects and C++/Java. Sometimes I do feel like C is obsolete compared to C++, though. C++ from what I

Re: [luau] ics412: operating systems

2002-10-21 Thread T. David Burns
At 06:42 PM 9/30/2002 -0700, Eric Hattemer wrote: A lot of other universities have taken Java and objects as the greatest new thing ever. They preach these, and consider C to be old and obsolete. This probably has a lot to do with the problem - java is used almost exclusively outside of the

Re: [luau] ics412: operating systems

2002-09-30 Thread Jimen Ching
On Mon, 30 Sep 2002, Charles Lockhart wrote: >It was one of the things I too felt like I missed out on when I was a >full time student. Work played a significant part in killing many >aspects of student life for me. I guess things haven't changed much since when I was at UH in the '90 to '95 time

Re: [luau] ics412: operating systems

2002-09-30 Thread Jimen Ching
On Mon, 30 Sep 2002, Ronnie T Livingston wrote: >I have known people who can sit down without any reference material and >code in multiple languages, this just boggles my mind. I love to program >and spend much of my free time doing so but I doubt I could compete with >these type of programmers in

Re: [luau] ics412: operating systems

2002-09-30 Thread Warren Togami
- Original Message - From: "W. Wayne Liauh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 11:25 AM Subject: [luau] ics412: operating systems > University and perhaps transfer away.> > > Please keep me posted and let'

Re: [luau] ics412: operating systems

2002-09-30 Thread Eric Hattemer
Alright, nothing specific to cite here, but I have some comments. I'm at USC, and here we use a program called nachos for our OS class. I haven't taken the class, but I can tell you its the hardest class in CS if not the entire university. But everyone knows this, its a grad requirement, and the

[luau] ics412: operating systems

2002-09-30 Thread W. Wayne Liauh
Please keep me posted and let's do some research to get prepared (in case we need to f*ck them). If they really do that (i.e., forcing students to sign a non-disclosure agreement), then we have a pretty serious constitution issue here.

Re: [luau] ics412: operating systems

2002-09-30 Thread Charles Lockhart
Ronnie T Livingston wrote: I think a lot of students tend to gripe a lot and maybe get there way. I am also taking the 412 class and I remember Pat mentioning early on that he was going to give each student 3 opportunities to take a quiz and the final score you receive would be given to you. I

Re: [luau] ics412: operating systems

2002-09-30 Thread Ronnie T Livingston
A wise man can see more from the bottom of a well than a fool can from a mountain top. -Unknown On Mon, 30 Sep 2002, Charles Lockhart wrote: > remarks about Linux to date, except for this recent statement that he's > thinking (going to?) partially (completely?) switch the course back to > the e

Re: [luau] ics412: operating systems

2002-09-30 Thread Charles Lockhart
Hey Jimen, Sorry, should have been more specific, but when writing my initial email I was in the middle of a little margarita party. The shell program was really a shell simulator that would provide basic shell functionality, parse the command line, find the command, redirect stdin/stdout, p

Re: [luau] ics412: operating systems

2002-09-30 Thread Charles Lockhart
Uhm, I tend to think that comp-sci is a professional degree, as is engineering, etc. Versus majors like, history, or communications. But then they might not see it that way either. But I understand and agree with where you're coming from. Unfortunately I have run into a lot of people who ge

Re: [luau] ics412: operating systems

2002-09-30 Thread Charles Lockhart
though. -Charles Warren Togami wrote: - Original Message - From: "Charles Lockhart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "luau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 8:45 PM Subject: [luau] ics412: operating systems From reading his email to

Re: [luau] ics412: operating systems

2002-09-30 Thread Charles Lockhart
Ah, I did misunderstand one thing in his email: he is going to allow the class to diverge into two paths, and allow people to either do the Linux based projects, or switch to the os simlator. Unfortunately, I would guess that if a majority of people wuss out, this'll be the last semester they

Re: [luau] ics412: operating systems

2002-09-30 Thread Jimen Ching
On Sun, 29 Sep 2002, Warren Togami wrote: >IMHO, it isn't that Linux is too hard... they just put almost zero effort >into giving resources to the students in getting them acclimated. Have you looked at the Linux kernel sources? I have. There are a few projects out there that are very hard to co

Re: [luau] ics412: operating systems

2002-09-30 Thread Jimen Ching
On Sun, 29 Sep 2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >I may get flamed for saying this, but here goes anyway: Most people >study computer science because professional degrees (Law/Medicine) >usually require 7+ years of schooling. Ok, let me flame you for this. ;-} As long as people treat computer scien

Re: [luau] ics412: operating systems

2002-09-30 Thread Jimen Ching
On Sun, 29 Sep 2002, Charles Lockhart wrote: >From reading his email to the class it looks like the problems (excuses?) >people had were that they weren't good enough C programmers, Linux isn't >documented well enough, and os stuff is hard. All of these answers kind >of blow me away. If the goal

Re: [luau] ics412: operating systems

2002-09-29 Thread Warren Togami
- Original Message - From: "Charles Lockhart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "luau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, September 29, 2002 8:45 PM Subject: [luau] ics412: operating systems > From > reading his email to the class it looks like the problems

Re: [luau] ics412: operating systems

2002-09-29 Thread cpaul
> This is a senior level computer science course, and none > of the C programming for the projects is very difficult. Shouldn't > comp-sci grads be able to program? > > I'll agree with the "os stuff is hard" argument, but jeez, that's why we > have a class on it. > > So, I guess I'm wondering

[luau] ics412: operating systems

2002-09-29 Thread Charles Lockhart
Don't know how many people know this, but this semesters ics412, operating systems class, is (maybe was) based on Linux (the main reason I'm taking the class). I thought it was a pretty good idea, an introduction to operating systems using a real operating system. Apparently the class (and I gues