RAS> Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 15:35:28 -0500
RAS> From: Richard A Steenbergen
RAS> On Mon, Jan 26, 2004 at 10:58:49AM -0800, Sean Finn wrote:
RAS>
RAS> > (Quiz for the list readers:
RAS> >What percentage of the Internet routing table does
RAS> >your network actually use?)
Perhaps around
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You hit the nail on the head. Fundametally, any route optimization
technique that tries to treat an aggregate of the network as
a blob which can be measured will suffer the same type of problems
as an IP over ATM network.
Observationally, IP over ATM has interesting laten
>What is broken for one provider and fixed at another may very well break
>something else that was working before at the first provider, yes?
Besides
>the difficulties of assigning a true metric to the overall reachability
of
>a /8 or any aggregate for that matter ("ok we decreased rtt by 20ms t
>I am going to have to call bullshit on the MPLS fast reroute thing
>there Wayne. The canonical counterexample is Sprint.
To be sure, Sprint and Ebone have shown that it is possible to
run a very high quality (low jitter) pure IP network, but...
>Excellent engineering and ops folks top the list
Richard A Steenbergen wrote:
> > The issue that you describe does indeed offer some constraints to the
> > application of route optimization technology. Within the scope of this
> > issue, though, I think that you would agree that a network which is ALL
> > transit would face no challenge here --
"Richard J. Sears" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Once I had fully implemented the unit, my latency dropped by 40% to
> over 100 keynote locations around the world.
In some circles, playing games with Keynote is considered excellent sport.
---Rob
Scott,
Not all boxes are created equal. I agree that certain manufactures of
"route optimization" equipment really should be in the used car sales
arena.
However that is not the case with the unit we purchased. The
RouteScience PathControl box we purchased only sends
UDP traceroutes to the top 1
This was one of the pipe dreams that RSVP was _supposed_ to solve in that
you could set up a end to end path with precisely specified
characteristics. problem is _all_ the devices in the path need to support
RSVP.
Now the snake oil salesmen are coming out with boxes which purport to
monitor the
On Mon, Jan 26, 2004 at 08:47:54AM -0700, Wayne E. Bouchard wrote:
>
> Although in principle I agree with what you say here, I will point out
> that the number and frequency of "significant" network outages
> (excluding things like the recent power failure in LAX) has become
> rare as compared to
On Mon, Jan 26, 2004 at 10:58:49AM -0800, Sean Finn wrote:
>
> The issue that you describe does indeed offer some constraints to the
> application of route optimization technology. Within the scope of this
> issue, though, I think that you would agree that a network which is ALL
> transit would f
Richard,
you have made some good points in this thread.
One general observation, and then specific responses
... I don't assert that current route optimization
technology solves ALL routing problems, but do think
that there are some specific problems that automation
can effectively, and grace
] 2.1.17 Simplicity
]
] The architecture MUST be simple enough so that Radia Perlman can
] explain all the important concepts in less than an hour.
Oh, phew, good thing that isn't me. I've never been able to explain
anything in less than an hour. :)
--
Rob Thomas
http://www.cymru.
Although in principle I agree with what you say here, I will point out
that the number and frequency of "significant" network outages
(excluding things like the recent power failure in LAX) has become
rare as compared to what they were 5 or 6 years ago. Part of this is
due to attitudes about the '
On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 10:30:38 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Yes, we can probably make something "better" than BGP. But will we
> be able to understand it?
I thought this was a good measure of that question... from the current
draft-irtf-routing-reqs draft:
2.1.17 Simplicity
The archi
On Mon, 26 Jan 2004 10:35:38 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
> and such things may also be possible with MPLS. But are any of
> the researchers seriously looking at how to provide a network
> in which all packets flow through two diverse paths to provide
> better reliability?
There's enough banana-
>BGP is relatively good at determining the best path when you a major
>carrier with connectivity to "everyone" (i.e. when traffic flows
>"naturally"), in many locations, and you engineer your network so that
you
>have sufficient capacity to support the traffic flows.
In other words, BGP really o
On Fri, Jan 23, 2004 at 11:01:14AM -0800, Richard J. Sears wrote:
>
> In reality, I learned that BGP is simply not up to the task of handling
> anything beyond its limited scope - best path routing. In today's world,
> we need to look beyond best path as it simply has nothing to do with
> best pe
I have been on a personal crusade for the last 8 months to address this
very issue!
We identified the exact same issues and questions as we grew from a
single backbone to 7 backbones, each of various sizes ranging from gig
connections to DS3s. In total I have almost 3GB of total available
capacit
On Thu, 22 Jan 2004, Patrick W.Gilmore wrote:
> In any case, no matter how many resources or black boxes you have, you
> cannot guarantee good performance on the 'Net. Too many people
> involved over which you have no control. Even if you had control, BGP
> is not the right tool to exert such co
On Jan 21, 2004, at 4:20 PM, vijay gill wrote:
On Wed, Jan 21, 2004 at 09:05:46PM +, Paul Vixie wrote:
My questions are these:
"Is sub-optimal routing caused by BGP so pervasive it needs to be
addressed?"
that depends on your isp, and whether their routing policies (openness
or cl
Hello,
> I am trying to determine for myself the relevance of Intelligent
> Routing Devices like Sockeye, Route Science etc. I am not trying to
> determine who does it better, but rather if the concept of optimizing
> routes is addressing a significant problem in terms of improved
> traffic perf
On Wed, 21 Jan 2004, Richard A Steenbergen wrote:
> I don't know if they're doing the same thing in Cali or not (they probably
> are, since all the radio stations are owned by the same 2 companies),
Yeah, NPR and CBS, both monopolistic empires with the same viewpoint :)
> but here in NoVA land t
On Wed, Jan 21, 2004 at 02:30:19PM -0800, Tom (UnitedLayer) wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Jan 2004, Richard A Steenbergen wrote:
> > On Wed, Jan 21, 2004 at 12:27:16PM -0800, Jim Devane wrote:
> > > "Are these devices able to effectively address the need?"
> >
> > Sugar pills effectively address the needs o
On Wed, 21 Jan 2004, Richard A Steenbergen wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 21, 2004 at 12:27:16PM -0800, Jim Devane wrote:
> > "Are these devices able to effectively address the need?"
>
> Sugar pills effectively address the needs of a great many ailments when
> given to people who believe that they will wor
On Wed, Jan 21, 2004 at 12:27:16PM -0800, Jim Devane wrote:
>
> "Are these devices able to effectively address the need?"
Sugar pills effectively address the needs of a great many ailments when
given to people who believe that they will work. And if the end result is
an addressed need, who are w
> > ... depends on your isp, and whether their routing policies (openness
> > or closedness of peering, shortest vs. longest exit, respect for MEDs)
> > are a good match for their technology/tools, skills/experience, and
> > resources/headroom.
>
> In practice, all of the above just turn out to b
On Wed, Jan 21, 2004 at 09:05:46PM +, Paul Vixie wrote:
>
> > My questions are these:
> >
> > "Is sub-optimal routing caused by BGP so pervasive it needs to be
> > addressed?"
>
> that depends on your isp, and whether their routing policies (openness
> or closedness of peering,
> My questions are these:
>
> "Is sub-optimal routing caused by BGP so pervasive it needs to be
> addressed?"
that depends on your isp, and whether their routing policies (openness
or closedness of peering, shortest vs. longest exit, respect for MEDs)
are a good match for their tech
On Jan 21, 2004, at 3:27 PM, Jim Devane wrote:
Hello,
I am trying to determine for myself the relevance of Intelligent
Routing Devices like Sockeye, Route Science etc. I am not trying to
determine who does it better, but rather if the concept of optimizing
routes is addressing a significant
Hello,
I am trying to determine
for myself the relevance of Intelligent Routing Devices like Sockeye, Route
Science etc. I am not trying to determine who does it better, but rather if the
concept of optimizing routes is addressing a significant problem in terms of
improved traffic perfo
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