Re: Verizon FiOS - is BGP an option?

2012-08-04 Thread William Herrin
On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 11:44 AM, Mike Jones wrote: > If only they had some kind of copper cabling running from some kind of > central location [...] (poor power distribution > efficiency would probably stop you wanting to power it that way all > the time). I imagine the problem would be safety an

Re: Verizon FiOS - is BGP an option?

2012-08-04 Thread Owen DeLong
I've never met a dog properly trained in ACLS and I'm pretty sure that a gun isn't even useful for BLS. Owen On Aug 4, 2012, at 7:53 PM, Peter Kristolaitis wrote: > Considering that none of the services that can be dispatched by 911 are > legally required to help you in most North American j

Re: Verizon FiOS - is BGP an option?

2012-08-04 Thread William Herrin
On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 6:50 PM, Andy Koch wrote: > On Aug 4, 2012, at 11:56, William Herrin wrote: >> 100 miles isn't a serious logistics problem with 500 gallons of fuel >> tank in the bed of a pickup truck. That buys you 8-12 hours for 100 >> fiber huts with $500 gasoline generators before you

RE: Verizon FiOS - is BGP an option?

2012-08-04 Thread Peter Kristolaitis
Considering that none of the services that can be dispatched by 911 are legally required to help you in most North American jurisdictions (i.e. if you call 911 and the police don't respond until they finish eating their box of donuts, they're not criminally or civilly liable), having working 91

RE: Verizon FiOS - is BGP an option?

2012-08-04 Thread Nathan Eisenberg
> Residences aren't critical infrastructure, no matter how angry the owners get. 911 access isn't a critical service? Fire and security panels aren't critical services? If basic life safety and property protection aren't critical services, I'm not sure what is. These are peoples' lives and fa

RE: Verizon FiOS - is BGP an option?

2012-08-04 Thread Frank Bulk
Residences aren't critical infrastructure, no matter how angry the owners get. I can assure you that infrastructure that really *is* critical do have their own generators and receive priority attention from the service providers. Frank -Original Message- From: William Herrin [mailto:b.

Re: IPv6 End User Fee

2012-08-04 Thread Owen DeLong
On Aug 4, 2012, at 12:41 , Eugen Leitl wrote: > On Sat, Aug 04, 2012 at 10:31:02AM -0700, Owen DeLong wrote: > >>> IPv6 missed a great chance of doing away with all the >>> central waterfall trickle-down space distribution. >>> >> >> There was no need to fix what wasn't broken. > > Let's say

Re: Verizon FiOS - is BGP an option?

2012-08-04 Thread joel jaeggli
On 8/4/12 8:44 AM, Mike Jones wrote: On 4 August 2012 04:07, Frank Bulk wrote: As someone else posted, many FTTH installations are centralized as much as possible to avoid having non-passive equipment in the plant, allowing for the practicality of onsite generators. That's what we do. But for

[NANOG-announce] Announcing the October 2012 NANOG Elections

2012-08-04 Thread Sylvie LaPerriere
*Hello NANOGers! This message is to encourage you, as a participant of this community, to become NANOG members and to consider standing for a leadership position at our upcoming October elections. The call for Board members nominations will be from August 20 to October 1 and for committee members

Re: US House to ITU: Hands off the Internet

2012-08-04 Thread John Curran
On Aug 4, 2012, at 1:29 PM, Nick Hilliard wrote: > On 04/08/2012 16:55, Justin M. Streiner wrote: >> On Sat, 4 Aug 2012, Jimmy Hess wrote: "it is the "consistent and unequivocal policy of the United States to promote a global Internet free from government control." >>> >>> Now if they

Re: IPv6 End User Fee

2012-08-04 Thread Eugen Leitl
On Sat, Aug 04, 2012 at 10:31:02AM -0700, Owen DeLong wrote: > > IPv6 missed a great chance of doing away with all the > > central waterfall trickle-down space distribution. > > > > There was no need to fix what wasn't broken. Let's say I want to plunk down a zero-administration node somewhere

Re: US House to ITU: Hands off the Internet

2012-08-04 Thread shawn wilson
On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 1:29 PM, Nick Hilliard wrote: > On 04/08/2012 16:55, Justin M. Streiner wrote: >> On Sat, 4 Aug 2012, Jimmy Hess wrote: "it is the "consistent and unequivocal policy of the United States to promote a global Internet free from government control." >>> >>> Now if the

Re: IPv6 End User Fee

2012-08-04 Thread Owen DeLong
On Aug 4, 2012, at 03:01 , Eugen Leitl wrote: > On Fri, Aug 03, 2012 at 08:31:06PM -0700, Owen DeLong wrote: > >> You MIGHT have paid some other organization for the privilege of >> transferring part or all of their registration rights to you. >> >> But in no case did you pay for the addresse

Re: US House to ITU: Hands off the Internet

2012-08-04 Thread Nick Hilliard
On 04/08/2012 16:55, Justin M. Streiner wrote: > On Sat, 4 Aug 2012, Jimmy Hess wrote: >>> "it is the "consistent and unequivocal policy of the United States to >>> promote a global Internet free from government control." >> >> Now if they would only practice what they preach. > > It will be i

Re: Verizon FiOS - is BGP an option?

2012-08-04 Thread William Herrin
On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 12:09 PM, Chris Adams wrote: > Well, in North Alabama in April 2011, we had to drive a lot more than 5 > miles (unless you left a 0 off the end). Across the Tennessee state > line (a good bit north of it) they had power, but they quickly ran out > of gas (and had a several

Re: Verizon FiOS - is BGP an option?

2012-08-04 Thread Jimmy Hess
On 8/4/12, Chris Adams wrote: > long-haul fiber all stayed up. Most of the other problems were because > of the power failure (some local fiber rings dropped, especially one > CLEC's that puts their nodes in customer premises and were broken by > customers' power failures). [snip] I would go as f

Re: IPv6 End User Fee

2012-08-04 Thread Eugen Leitl
On Sat, Aug 04, 2012 at 10:59:09AM -0500, Jimmy Hess wrote: > On 8/4/12, Eugen Leitl wrote: > > On Fri, Aug 03, 2012 at 08:31:06PM -0700, Owen DeLong wrote: > > onboard (as most smartphones and tablets do). > > 24 + 24 + 16 bits are just enough to represent > > a decent-resolution WGS84 position f

Re: Verizon FiOS - is BGP an option?

2012-08-04 Thread Chris Adams
Once upon a time, William Herrin said: > I managed to get gasoline for my generator. I had to drive upwards of > 5 miles and pass as many as 7 closed stations to get it. But it was > available and if I'd planned better with respect to containers to > carry it in I'd have had zero difficulty. Some

Re: IPv6 End User Fee

2012-08-04 Thread Jimmy Hess
On 8/4/12, Eugen Leitl wrote: > On Fri, Aug 03, 2012 at 08:31:06PM -0700, Owen DeLong wrote: > onboard (as most smartphones and tablets do). > 24 + 24 + 16 bits are just enough to represent > a decent-resolution WGS84 position fix. Plus, > GPS gives you a pretty accurate clock. Yes, very interest

Re: US House to ITU: Hands off the Internet

2012-08-04 Thread Justin M. Streiner
On Sat, 4 Aug 2012, Jimmy Hess wrote: On 8/3/12, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: "it is the "consistent and unequivocal policy of the United States to promote a global Internet free from government control." Now if they would only practice what they preach. It will be interesting to see how th

Re: Verizon FiOS - is BGP an option?

2012-08-04 Thread Mike Jones
On 4 August 2012 04:07, Frank Bulk wrote: > As someone else posted, many FTTH installations are centralized as much as > possible to avoid having non-passive equipment in the plant, allowing for > the practicality of onsite generators. That's what we do. But for those > who have powered nodes in

Re: Verizon FiOS - is BGP an option?

2012-08-04 Thread William Herrin
On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 11:02 AM, Chris Adams wrote: > Besides, where do you think you're going to get gasoline in a > wide-spread extended power failure? Few gas stations have generators, > and even if they do, they'll sell out of gas quickly. That distribution > system also needs power. The di

Re: US House to ITU: Hands off the Internet

2012-08-04 Thread Jimmy Hess
On 8/3/12, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: "it is the "consistent and unequivocal policy of the United States to promote a global Internet free from government control." Now if they would only practice what they preach. > [Feels operational to me.] >

Re: Verizon FiOS - is BGP an option?

2012-08-04 Thread William Herrin
On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 4:41 AM, Eugen Leitl wrote: > On Fri, Aug 03, 2012 at 11:52:53AM -1000, William Herrin wrote: >> On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 11:26 AM, Frank Bulk wrote: >> > A good portable generator is more than $500, and if it's a wide-spread >> > outage there's not enough portable generators

Re: Verizon FiOS - is BGP an option?

2012-08-04 Thread Chris Adams
Once upon a time, Frank Bulk said: > A good portable generator is more than $500, and if it's a wide-spread > outage there's not enough portable generators to go around, and if there > were, not enough people to set them and give them their fluids. And it > doesn't pay to put a natural gas (or si

Re: IPv6 End User Fee

2012-08-04 Thread Eugen Leitl
On Fri, Aug 03, 2012 at 08:31:06PM -0700, Owen DeLong wrote: > You MIGHT have paid some other organization for the privilege of transferring > part or all of their registration rights to you. > > But in no case did you pay for the addresses themselves unless you are silly > enough to think that

Re: Verizon FiOS - is BGP an option?

2012-08-04 Thread Eugen Leitl
On Fri, Aug 03, 2012 at 11:52:53AM -1000, William Herrin wrote: > On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 11:26 AM, Frank Bulk wrote: > > A good portable generator is more than $500, and if it's a wide-spread > > outage there's not enough portable generators to go around, and if there > > were, not enough people t