Re: [Python-Dev] Status of C compilers for Python on Windows

Ray Donnelly wrote: > On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 11:44 PM, Paul Moore wrote: >> On 25 October 2014 23:22, Chris Angelico wrote: >>> On Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 9:19 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: My point is that your "Windows build" would not have the same behaviour as a MSVC-produced Windows bui

Re: [Python-Dev] results of id() and weakref.getweakrefs() sometimes break on object resurrection

On Saturday, October 25, 2014, Stefan Richthofer wrote: > Okay, sorry, I was thinking too Jython-like. I fixed runGC() just to > see now that it does not even trigger resurrection, since under > CPython there are no finalizers executed in ref cycles (i.e. I find my > objects in gc.garbage). > So

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of C compilers for Python on Windows

On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 6:24 PM, R. David Murray wrote: > Note: it can be made even less compelling by making it a lot easier to > build CPython on Windows without having an MSVC license (which I think > means not using the GUI, for which I say *yay* :). I think Zach Ware > has been working on im

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of C compilers for Python on Windows

On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 7:05 PM, Ray Donnelly wrote: > On Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 12:30 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: >> On Sat, 25 Oct 2014 19:24:38 -0400 >> "R. David Murray" wrote: >>> >>> I know I for one do not generally test patches on Windows because I >>> haven't taken the time to learn how to

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of C compilers for Python on Windows

Ray Donnelly wrote: > On Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 1:45 AM, Steve Dower > wrote: >> Ray Donnelly wrote: >>> Also, where are the publicly accessible specifications and other technical >>> descriptions that MinGW-w64 would need to implement strong binary >>> compatibility with MSVC? As a random example,

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of C compilers for Python on Windows

On Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 1:45 AM, Steve Dower wrote: > Ray Donnelly wrote: >> On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 11:44 PM, Paul Moore wrote: >>> On 25 October 2014 23:22, Chris Angelico wrote: On Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 9:19 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > My point is that your "Windows build" woul

Re: [Python-Dev] results of id() and weakref.getweakrefs() sometimes break on object resurrection

On Sun, 26 Oct 2014 02:50:39 +0200 "Stefan Richthofer" wrote: > Okay, sorry, I was thinking too Jython-like. I fixed runGC() just to > see now that it does not even trigger resurrection, since under > CPython there are no finalizers executed in ref cycles (i.e. I find my > objects in gc.garbage).

Re: [Python-Dev] results of id() and weakref.getweakrefs() sometimes break on object resurrection

Okay, sorry, I was thinking too Jython-like. I fixed runGC() just to see now that it does not even trigger resurrection, since under CPython there are no finalizers executed in ref cycles (i.e. I find my objects in gc.garbage). So I realize, my xy_cyclic tests are pointless anyway since in cyclic g

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of C compilers for Python on Windows

On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 11:44 PM, Paul Moore wrote: > On 25 October 2014 23:22, Chris Angelico wrote: >> On Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 9:19 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: >>> My point is that your "Windows build" would not have the same behaviour >>> as a MSVC-produced Windows build, and so testing it with

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of C compilers for Python on Windows

On Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 12:30 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On Sat, 25 Oct 2014 19:24:38 -0400 > "R. David Murray" wrote: >> >> I know I for one do not generally test patches on Windows because I >> haven't taken the time to learn how to build CPython on it. Sure, I >> could test pure python chang

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of C compilers for Python on Windows

On 26/10/2014 00:24, R. David Murray wrote: On Sun, 26 Oct 2014 00:19:44 +0200, Antoine Pitrou wrote: On Sun, 26 Oct 2014 09:06:36 +1100 Chris Angelico wrote: On Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 8:59 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: How do you know this isn't a problem, since you haven't *tested* with MSVC? W

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of C compilers for Python on Windows

On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 1:10 PM, Ray Donnelly wrote: > On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 6:13 PM, Steve Dower > wrote: > > Building CPython for Windows is not something that needs solving. The > > culture on Windows is to redistribute binaries, not source, and both the > > core team and a number of redist

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of C compilers for Python on Windows

On Sat, 25 Oct 2014 19:24:38 -0400 "R. David Murray" wrote: > > I know I for one do not generally test patches on Windows because I > haven't taken the time to learn how to build CPython on it. Sure, I > could test pure python changes by applying patches to an installed > Python, but that's an o

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of C compilers for Python on Windows

On Sun, 26 Oct 2014 00:19:44 +0200, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On Sun, 26 Oct 2014 09:06:36 +1100 > Chris Angelico wrote: > > On Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 8:59 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > > > How do you know this isn't a problem, since you haven't *tested* with > > > MSVC? > > > Why on Earth would you w

Re: [Python-Dev] results of id() and weakref.getweakrefs() sometimes break on object resurrection

Hello Stefan, On Sun, 26 Oct 2014 00:20:47 +0200 "Stefan Richthofer" wrote: > Hello developers, > > I observed strange behaviour in CPython (tested in 2.7.5 and 3.3.3) > regarding object resurrection. Your runGC() function is buggy, it does not run the GC under CPython. Fix it and the first pr

[Python-Dev] results of id() and weakref.getweakrefs() sometimes break on object resurrection

Hello developers, I observed strange behaviour in CPython (tested in 2.7.5 and 3.3.3) regarding object resurrection. Yes, resurrection is evil, but it is a valid scenario. If an object is resurrected via its finalizer __del__, sometimes its unique id value as returned from id() changes. Additional

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of C compilers for Python on Windows

On 25 October 2014 23:22, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 9:19 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: >> My point is that your "Windows build" would not have the same behaviour >> as a MSVC-produced Windows build, and so testing it with it would not >> certify that your code would actually be

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of C compilers for Python on Windows

On Sun, 26 Oct 2014 09:22:18 +1100 Chris Angelico wrote: > On Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 9:19 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > > My point is that your "Windows build" would not have the same behaviour > > as a MSVC-produced Windows build, and so testing it with it would not > > certify that your code would

Re: [Python-Dev] XP buildbot problem cloning from hg.python.org

In article , Ned Deily wrote: > In article , > David Bolen wrote: > > So that's sort of strange. > Very interesting! I had been doing some housekeeping on some of my > older OS X build systems over the past few days and I've run into the > same problem. In particular, I am seeing this fail

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of C compilers for Python on Windows

On 25 October 2014 21:50, Steve Dower wrote: > Ray Donnelly wrote: >> What is it that you >> are afraid of if CPython can be compiled out of the box using >> mingw/MinGW-w64? Why are you fighting so hard against having option. > > I'm afraid of users having numpy crash because they're using an MSV

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of C compilers for Python on Windows

On 10/25/2014 5:11 PM, Chris Angelico wrote: It might fragment the community to have multiple different binary distributions. But it ought to be possible for any person/organization to say "We're going to make our own build of Python, with these extension modules, built with this compiler, targe

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of C compilers for Python on Windows

On Sat, 25 Oct 2014 21:10:23 +0100, Ray Donnelly wrote: > On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 6:13 PM, Steve Dower > wrote: > > (Apologies for the short reply, posting from my phone.) > > > > "MSVC can continue > > to be the default compiler used for Python on Windows, none of Roumen's > > patches change t

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of C compilers for Python on Windows

On Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 9:19 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > My point is that your "Windows build" would not have the same behaviour > as a MSVC-produced Windows build, and so testing it with it would not > certify that your code would actually be compatible with genuine > MSVC builds of CPython, whic

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of C compilers for Python on Windows

On Sun, 26 Oct 2014 09:06:36 +1100 Chris Angelico wrote: > On Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 8:59 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > > How do you know this isn't a problem, since you haven't *tested* with > > MSVC? > > Why on Earth would you want to test your PEP work with an unsupported > > Windows compiler and

Re: [Python-Dev] XP buildbot problem cloning from hg.python.org

In article , David Bolen wrote: > David Bolen writes: > > > which appears to die mid-stream while receiving the manifests. > > > > So I'm sort of hoping there might be some record server-side as to why > > things are falling apart mid-way. > > Just to follow-up to myself, I get the same same

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of C compilers for Python on Windows

On Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 8:59 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > How do you know this isn't a problem, since you haven't *tested* with > MSVC? > Why on Earth would you want to test your PEP work with an unsupported > Windows compiler and runtime, rather than with the officially supported > compiler and ru

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of C compilers for Python on Windows

On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 10:52 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > On Sat, 25 Oct 2014 21:10:23 +0100 > Ray Donnelly wrote: >> >> This is the second time you've used the vacuous "culture on Windows" >> argument, now with an added appeal to (vague) authority. > [...] >> Why are you fighting so hard against

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of C compilers for Python on Windows

On Sun, 26 Oct 2014 08:53:29 +1100 Chris Angelico wrote: > On Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 8:47 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > > And how do you know that it would have worked with MSVC if you only use > > MinGW? > > If you want to ensure compatibility with MSVC, you must build with MSVC. > > There's no work

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of C compilers for Python on Windows

On Sat, 25 Oct 2014 21:10:23 +0100 Ray Donnelly wrote: > > This is the second time you've used the vacuous "culture on Windows" > argument, now with an added appeal to (vague) authority. [...] > Why are you fighting so hard against having option. > If CPython wants to truly call itself an Open So

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of C compilers for Python on Windows

On Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 8:47 AM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: > And how do you know that it would have worked with MSVC if you only use > MinGW? > If you want to ensure compatibility with MSVC, you must build with MSVC. > There's no working around that. Precisely. If you build with MinGW, you can't ensu

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of C compilers for Python on Windows

On Sun, 26 Oct 2014 08:11:39 +1100 Chris Angelico wrote: > > It might fragment the community to have multiple different binary > distributions. But it ought to be possible for any person/organization > to say "We're going to make our own build of Python, with these > extension modules, built with

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of C compilers for Python on Windows

On Sun, Oct 26, 2014 at 7:50 AM, Steve Dower wrote: > Ray Donnelly wrote: >> What is it that you >> are afraid of if CPython can be compiled out of the box using >> mingw/MinGW-w64? Why are you fighting so hard against having option. > > I'm afraid of users having numpy crash because they're using

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of C compilers for Python on Windows

On Sat, Oct 25, 2014 at 6:13 PM, Steve Dower wrote: > (Apologies for the short reply, posting from my phone.) > > "MSVC can continue > to be the default compiler used for Python on Windows, none of Roumen's > patches change that. They would merely open up the choice for packagers and > users to bu

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of C compilers for Python on Windows

Ray Donnelly wrote: > What is it that you > are afraid of if CPython can be compiled out of the box using > mingw/MinGW-w64? Why are you fighting so hard against having option. I'm afraid of users having numpy crash because they're using an MSVC CPython instead of a mingw CPython. I'm afraid of u

Re: [Python-Dev] XP buildbot problem cloning from hg.python.org

As another data point, I've tried cloning randomly selected other repositories from hg.python.org, and smaller repositories (distutils2, peps, jython to name a few) are all working fine under XP, even though with jython for example, the clone takes longer in terms of wall time than I'll often see c

Re: [Python-Dev] XP buildbot problem cloning from hg.python.org

Donald Stufft writes: > I have an idea, can you run https://bpaste.net/show/c5d7cd102f5b and > tell me what it outputs? Both on a machine that works and one that > doesn’t. All but Linux (so XP/7 buildbots, XP standalone, OSX) return: ('DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA', 'TLSv1/SSLv3', 128) My Linux (Ubunt

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of C compilers for Python on Windows

On Sat, 25 Oct 2014 05:45:24 -0700, "Tony Kelman" wrote: > As a developer of a (compiled) open-source library or application, wouldn't > you love to be able to build binaries on Linux for Windows? With some work > and build system patches, you can. For many projects it's a simple matter of > ./con

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of C compilers for Python on Windows

(Apologies for the short reply, posting from my phone.) "MSVC can continue to be the default compiler used for Python on Windows, none of Roumen's patches change that. They would merely open up the choice for packagers and users to build CPython (and extension modules, thanks to separate patches)

Re: [Python-Dev] Status of C compilers for Python on Windows

I'm several weeks late to this discussion, but I'm glad to see that it happened. I'm not a Python developer, and barely a user, but I have several years of daily experience compiling complicated scientific software cross- platform, particularly with MinGW-w64 for Windows. The Python community, bot

Re: [Python-Dev] XP buildbot problem cloning from hg.python.org

I have an idea, can you run https://bpaste.net/show/c5d7cd102f5b and tell me what it outputs? Both on a machine that works and one that doesn’t. > On Oct 25, 2014, at 2:14 AM, David Bolen wrote: > > Donald Stufft writes: > >> What version of OpenSSL is it using. > > I'm using the pre-built Wi

Re: [Python-Dev] XP buildbot problem cloning from hg.python.org

I was seeing this recently and had to run recover on my repo (not sure what the command line is for that - TortoiseHg had a menu). YMMV, but the symptoms sound the same. Cheers, Steve Top-posted from my Windows Phone From: David Bolen