Re: [Python-Dev] apparent ruminations on mutable immutables (was: PEP 351, the freeze protocol)

2005-11-01 Thread Noam Raphael
On 11/1/05, Josiah Carlson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ... > > I still consider it dead. >"If the implementation is hard to explain, it's a bad idea." It is sometimes true, but not always. It may mean two other things: 1. The one trying to explain is not talented enough. 2. The implementation i

Re: [Python-Dev] apparent ruminations on mutable immutables (was: PEP 351, the freeze protocol)

2005-11-01 Thread Josiah Carlson
> That's fine. I wish that you read my answer, think about it a little, > and just tell me in a yes or a no if you still consider it dead. I > think that I have answered all your questions, and I hope that at > least others would be convinced by them, and that at the end my > suggestion would be ac

Re: [Python-Dev] apparent ruminations on mutable immutables (was: PEP 351, the freeze protocol)

2005-11-01 Thread Noam Raphael
On 11/1/05, Josiah Carlson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ... > > I am an advocate for PEP 351. However, I am against your proposed > implementation/variant of PEP 351 because I don't believe it ads enough > to warrant the additional complication and overhead necessary for every > object (even tuples

Re: [Python-Dev] apparent ruminations on mutable immutables (was: PEP 351, the freeze protocol)

2005-11-01 Thread Josiah Carlson
Noam Raphael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 10/31/05, Josiah Carlson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > About the users-changing-my-internal-data issue: > ... > > You can have a printout before it dies: > > "I'm crashing your program because something attempted to modify a data > > structure (here