On Thursday, July 30, 2015 at 6:15:56 AM UTC+5:30, Cameron Simpson wrote:
> On 29Jul2015 18:32, Laura Creighton wrote:
> >These control characters are the very basic move characters in emacs.
> >People have always been free to remap them if they want them to do
> >something else, but waking up in
On 29Jul2015 18:32, Laura Creighton wrote:
In a message of Tue, 28 Jul 2015 20:35:15 -0700, Rustom Mody writes:
- I should not have to customize emacs so that CTRL/A, CTRL/E, CTRL/N, and
CTRL/P continue to work the way they've done since the mid-1970s.
etc etc
On 29Jul2015 10:51, random...@fastmail.us wrote:
On Sun, Jul 26, 2015, at 07:48, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
At first, there was only the machine language. Assembly languages
introduced "mnemonics" for the weaklings who couldn't remember the
opcodes by heart.
To be fair, x86 is also a particularly
On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 6:42 AM, wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 26, 2015, at 02:43, Ian Kelly wrote:
>> What Internet standard is being violated by reflowing text content in
>> the message body?
>
> Well, implicitly, text is only supposed to be reflowed when
> format=flowed is in use, and only then when ea
In a message of Tue, 28 Jul 2015 20:35:15 -0700, Rustom Mody writes:
>- I should not have to customize emacs so that CTRL/A, CTRL/E, CTRL/N, and
>CTRL/P continue to work the way they've done since the mid-1970s.
>
>etc etc
>
>¹ emacs 18 dates from around 1992 (!!)
N
On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 10:51 AM, wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 26, 2015, at 07:48, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>> At first, there was only the machine language. Assembly languages
>> introduced "mnemonics" for the weaklings who couldn't remember the
>> opcodes by heart.
>
> To be fair, x86 is also a particular
On Sun, Jul 26, 2015, at 07:48, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> At first, there was only the machine language. Assembly languages
> introduced "mnemonics" for the weaklings who couldn't remember the
> opcodes by heart.
To be fair, x86 is also a particularly terrible example of a machine
language, from the
On Sun, Jul 26, 2015, at 02:43, Ian Kelly wrote:
> What Internet standard is being violated by reflowing text content in
> the message body?
Well, implicitly, text is only supposed to be reflowed when
format=flowed is in use, and only then when each physical line of the
file ends with a space char
A bizarre current gnus sob-story brought me back to this thread:
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-gnu-emacs/2015-07/msg00738.html
Starts here
http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-gnu-emacs/2015-07/msg00591.html
On Sunday, July 26, 2015 at 4:13:17 PM UTC+5:30, Jussi Piitulainen wrote:
> R
On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 3:40 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
>> So while emacs makes everything else look rather puerile, setting it up
>> is such a bitch that last python course I just switched to idle.
>> Must admit it was more pleasant than I expected.
>> Except that sometimes we need C and C++ and
On Saturday, July 25, 2015 at 11:35:02 AM UTC-5, Laura Creighton wrote:
> How do you teach gmail not to reflow what it thinks of as
> 'other people's quoted text'?
My simple solution is to bulk replace ">>> " with "py> ".
Also has the benefit of differentiating between languages
when a proper "tag
On Monday, July 27, 2015 at 1:15:29 AM UTC+5:30, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2015-07-26, Rustom Mody wrote:
> > On Sunday, July 26, 2015 at 9:17:16 PM UTC+5:30, Grant Edwards wrote:
> >> On 2015-07-26, Rustom Mody wrote:
> >>
> >>> JFTR: Ive been using emacs for 20+ years. And I have the increasin
And for those interested in how I received Laura's message (the one I
replied to):
------
Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail
From: Laura Creighton
Newsgroups: gmane.comp.python.general
Subject: Re: scalar vs array and program con
On Sunday, July 26, 2015 at 11:11:04 PM UTC+5:30, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Jul 2015 01:59 am, Rustom Mody wrote:
>
> > Its 2015 now and any ½ decent teacher of programming, writes programs in
> > front of the class.
>
> Yeah, but the fully decent teachers prepare before hand, so the s
On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 12:20 AM, Cameron Simpson wrote:
> On 25Jul2015 22:43, Ian Kelly wrote:
>>
>> On Jul 25, 2015 4:51 PM, "Ben Finney" wrote:
>>>
>>> Laura Creighton writes:
>>> > So it was my fault by sending him a reply with >>> to the far left.
>>>
>>> No, it was Google Mail's failt for
On 2015-07-26, Rustom Mody wrote:
> On Sunday, July 26, 2015 at 9:17:16 PM UTC+5:30, Grant Edwards wrote:
>> On 2015-07-26, Rustom Mody wrote:
>>
>>> JFTR: Ive been using emacs for 20+ years. And I have the increasing
>>> feeling that my students are getting fedup with it (and me).
[...]
>> Why
On Sat, 25 Jul 2015 18:34:30 +0200,
Laura Creighton wrote:
> Gmail eats Python. We just saw this mail back from Sebastian Luque
> which says in part:
>>>> try: all_your_code_which_is_happy_with_non_scalars except
>>>> WhateverErrorPythonGiv
On Mon, 27 Jul 2015 01:59 am, Rustom Mody wrote:
> Its 2015 now and any ½ decent teacher of programming, writes programs in
> front of the class.
Yeah, but the fully decent teachers prepare before hand, so the students
don't have to wait while they type out the (buggy) program in front of
them.
On 26/07/2015 16:59, Rustom Mody wrote:
So while emacs makes everything else look rather puerile, setting it up
is such a bitch that last python course I just switched to idle.
Must admit it was more pleasant than I expected.
Except that sometimes we need C and C++ and assembly and haskell and m
On Sunday, July 26, 2015 at 9:17:16 PM UTC+5:30, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2015-07-26, Rustom Mody wrote:
>
> > JFTR: Ive been using emacs for 20+ years. And I have the increasing
> > feeling that my students are getting fedup with it (and me).
>
> I don't understand.
>
> Why do your students e
On 2015-07-26, Laura Creighton wrote:
> In a message of Sun, 26 Jul 2015 00:58:08 -, Grant Edwards writes:
>
>>You use mutt or something else decent as your MUA.
>>
>
> I do -- the problem is all the gmail users out there.
So am I, and I use mutt as my MUA pretty much exclusively. [I
sometime
On 2015-07-26, Rustom Mody wrote:
> JFTR: Ive been using emacs for 20+ years. And I have the increasing
> feeling that my students are getting fedup with it (and me).
I don't understand.
Why do your students even _know_ (let alone care!) what editor you
use?
I admit it was years ago, but afte
On 2015-07-26, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 4:15 PM, Rustom Mody wrote:
>> Well Almost.
>>
>> Emacs used to stand for "Eight Megabytes And Constantly Swapping"
>> At a time when 8 MB was large. Is it today?
>> So let me ask you:
[...]
>> If you have one app to do them all, I'd
On Sunday, July 26, 2015 at 4:13:17 PM UTC+5:30, Jussi Piitulainen wrote:
> Rustom Mody writes:
> > On Sunday, July 26, 2015 at 2:06:00 PM UTC+5:30, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>
> >> What would you like to achieve, exactly?
> >
> > Some attitude correction?
>
> With all respect, take your own advice.
Jussi Piitulainen :
> I suppose early hackers were also incredibly tolerant of obscure names
> in general.
At first, there was only the machine language. Assembly languages
introduced "mnemonics" for the weaklings who couldn't remember the
opcodes by heart.
(Playing cards went through a somewhat
Chris Angelico writes:
> On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 7:51 PM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>>> - What everyone calls head (of a list) emacs calls Car (Toyota?)
>>
>> Now you're inventing things.
>
> No, but it's LISP rather than Emacs that calls it that. And it dates
> back to an assembly language opcode. Wh
On 26/07/2015 10:21, alister wrote:
emacs is a great operating system - the only thing it lacks is a good
text editor ;-)
notepad
--
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask
what you can do for our language.
Mark Lawrence
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listi
On 26/07/2015 07:15, Rustom Mody wrote:
On Sunday, July 26, 2015 at 11:05:14 AM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 3:28 PM, Rustom Mody wrote:
JFTR: Ive been using emacs for 20+ years. And I have the increasing feeling
that my students are getting fedup with it (and me).
Rustom Mody writes:
> On Sunday, July 26, 2015 at 2:06:00 PM UTC+5:30, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>> What would you like to achieve, exactly?
>
> Some attitude correction?
With all respect, take your own advice. And use an editor that works for
you.
> That emacs starts its tutorial showing how to use
Chris Angelico :
> On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 7:51 PM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>>> - What everyone calls head (of a list) emacs calls Car (Toyota?)
>>
>> Now you're inventing things.
>
> No, but it's LISP rather than Emacs that calls it that.
You'd have to get into programming lisp before you encount
On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 7:51 PM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>> - What everyone calls head (of a list) emacs calls Car (Toyota?)
>
> Now you're inventing things.
No, but it's LISP rather than Emacs that calls it that. And it dates
back to an assembly language opcode. Why that got perpetuated in a
high
Rustom Mody :
> You are being obtuse Marko!
>
> Yeah that 'M-' is what everyone calls Alt can be conveyed in a few
> seconds
Often Alt doesn't work. For example, the stupid GUI thinks it can
intercept some Alt key combinations. Then, it's good to know the ESC
prefix functions as Alt.
Also, in so
On Sun, 26 Jul 2015 04:43 pm, Ian Kelly wrote:
> I'm also skeptical that this was caused by Gmail, which I've never
> seen do this and did not do this when I tried to repro it just now.
> Also, unless I'm misinterpreting the headers of the message in
> question, it appears to have been sent via Gm
On Sun, 26 Jul 2015 01:50:21 -0700, Rustom Mody wrote:
> On Sunday, July 26, 2015 at 2:06:00 PM UTC+5:30, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
>> Rustom Mody :
>>
>> > Emacs 'tries to be everything' in exactly the same way that a
>> > 'general purpose programming language' is too general and by
>> > pretending
On Sunday, July 26, 2015 at 2:06:00 PM UTC+5:30, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Rustom Mody :
>
> > Emacs 'tries to be everything' in exactly the same way that a 'general
> > purpose programming language' is too general and by pretending to
> > solve all problems actually solves none (until you hire a pr
On 26Jul2015 09:02, Laura Creighton wrote:
In a message of Sun, 26 Jul 2015 00:58:08 -, Grant Edwards writes:
You use mutt or something else decent as your MUA.
I do -- the problem is all the gmail users out there.
Take heart - gmail used to do much worse than this:-)
Cheers,
Cameron S
On 25Jul2015 22:43, Ian Kelly wrote:
On Jul 25, 2015 4:51 PM, "Ben Finney" wrote:
Laura Creighton writes:
> So it was my fault by sending him a reply with >>> to the far left.
No, it was Google Mail's failt for messing with the content of the
message.
Specificly, by manking the text withou
Rustom Mody :
> Emacs 'tries to be everything' in exactly the same way that a 'general
> purpose programming language' is too general and by pretending to
> solve all problems actually solves none (until you hire a programmer).
Emacs isn't too general. It's just right.
> Problem with emacs (cult
On Sunday, July 26, 2015 at 12:25:42 PM UTC+5:30, Marko Rauhamaa wrote:
> Chris Angelico:
>
> > Emacs tries to be absolutely everything, not just editing text files;
> > that's why it's big.
>
> I use emacs for most of my text inputting needs. Sometimes I even use it
> to type in web forms (prepa
In a message of Sun, 26 Jul 2015 00:58:08 -, Grant Edwards writes:
>You use mutt or something else decent as your MUA.
>
I do -- the problem is all the gmail users out there.
Laura
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
Chris Angelico :
> Emacs tries to be absolutely everything, not just editing text files;
> that's why it's big.
I use emacs for most of my text inputting needs. Sometimes I even use it
to type in web forms (prepare it in emacs and copy the text over into
the form).
I'm typing now. Hence, I'm usi
On Jul 25, 2015 4:51 PM, "Ben Finney" wrote:
>
> Laura Creighton writes:
>
> > So it was my fault by sending him a reply with >>> to the far left.
>
> No, it was Google Mail's failt for messing with the content of the
> message.
>
> Never forget that these services are meant to serve us. When the
On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 4:15 PM, Rustom Mody wrote:
> Well Almost.
> Emacs used to stand for "Eight Megabytes And Constantly Swapping"
> At a time when 8 MB was large. Is it today?
> So let me ask you:
> Do you not use ½ dozen (at least) languages?
> And their interpreters (when they exist)
> And
On Sunday, July 26, 2015 at 11:05:14 AM UTC+5:30, Chris Angelico wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 3:28 PM, Rustom Mody wrote:
> > JFTR: Ive been using emacs for 20+ years. And I have the increasing feeling
> > that my students are getting fedup with it (and me). Used Idle for my last
> > python
On Jul 25, 2015 8:36 AM, "Laura Creighton" wrote:
> Ow! Gmail is understanding the >>> I stuck in as 'this is from the
> python console as a quoting marker and thinks it can reflow that.
You didn't use >>> in the email that I saw. That's actually three levels of
quoting: one added in your reply
Steven D'Aprano writes:
> On Sun, 26 Jul 2015 03:47 am, Jussi Piitulainen wrote:
>
>> Just in case anyone cares, Gnus shows me those indentations as octal
>> codes, \302\240\302\240 (followed by one ASCII space). I guess a
>> \302\240 is a NO-BREAK SPACE in UTF-8, and I guess Gnus does not know
>>
On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 3:28 PM, Rustom Mody wrote:
> JFTR: Ive been using emacs for 20+ years. And I have the increasing feeling
> that my students are getting fedup with it (and me). Used Idle for my last
> python
> course without too much grief. If only it were an option for 25 programming
Laura Creighton writes:
> In a message of Sat, 25 Jul 2015 20:52:38 +0300, Jussi Piitulainen writes:
>>Jussi Piitulainen writes:
>>> Has the world adopted UTF-8 as the default charset now or what?
>>> (I'll be only glad to hear that it has, if it has, but a reference
>>> to some sort of internet s
On Sunday, July 26, 2015 at 10:31:20 AM UTC+5:30, Jussi Piitulainen wrote:
> Marko Rauhamaa writes:
>
> > Jussi Piitulainen writes:
>
> >> Just in case anyone cares, Gnus shows me those indentations as octal
> >> codes, \302\240\302\240 (followed by one ASCII space). I guess a
> >> \302\240 is a
Marko Rauhamaa writes:
> Jussi Piitulainen writes:
>> Just in case anyone cares, Gnus shows me those indentations as octal
>> codes, \302\240\302\240 (followed by one ASCII space). I guess a
>> \302\240 is a NO-BREAK SPACE in UTF-8, and I guess Gnus does not know
>> this because there is no chars
On Sun, 26 Jul 2015 03:47 am, Jussi Piitulainen wrote:
> Just in case anyone cares, Gnus shows me those indentations as octal
> codes, \302\240\302\240 (followed by one ASCII space). I guess a
> \302\240 is a NO-BREAK SPACE in UTF-8, and I guess Gnus does not know
> this because there is no charse
On Sun, 26 Jul 2015 02:34 am, Laura Creighton wrote:
> Gmail eats Python.
>
> We just saw this mail back from Sebastian Luque which says in part:
>
>>>> try: all_your_code_which_is_happy_with_non_scalars except
>>>> WhateverErrorPyt
On 2015-07-25, Laura Creighton wrote:
> Gmail eats Python.
>
> We just saw this mail back from Sebastian Luque which says in part:
>
>>>> try: all_your_code_which_is_happy_with_non_scalars except
>>>> WhateverErrorPyt
On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 10:52 AM, Ben Finney wrote:
> Zachary Ware writes:
>
>> If the gmail app on my phone had the option, I'd only send the plain
>> text.
>
> Isn't that a good reason to avoid composing email messages on a program
> that lacks the correct capability?
>
> If the GMail app lacks
Zachary Ware writes:
> If the gmail app on my phone had the option, I'd only send the plain
> text.
Isn't that a good reason to avoid composing email messages on a program
that lacks the correct capability?
If the GMail app lacks the ability to send plain text, there are better
alternatives (in
Laura Creighton writes:
> So it was my fault by sending him a reply with >>> to the far left.
No, it was Google Mail's failt for messing with the content of the
message.
Never forget that these services are meant to serve us. When they fail
to do so because they're violating internet standards,
On Jul 25, 2015 2:45 PM, "Marko Rauhamaa" wrote:
> (It's another question what place text/html has on this forum in the
> first place.)
If the gmail app on my phone had the option, I'd only send the plain text.
As is, I'm just glad it does send a plain text version :)
--
Zach
(On a phone)
--
ht
Jussi Piitulainen :
>> Â Â >>> def test(): pass
>> Â Â ...
>> Â Â >>> print('Hi world')
>> Â Â Hi world
>> Â Â >>>
>
> Just in case anyone cares, Gnus shows me those indentations as octal
> codes, \302\240\302\240 (followed by one ASCII space). I guess a
> \302\240 is a NO-BREAK SPACE in UTF-
On 2015-07-25, Jussi Piitulainen wrote:
> Just in case anyone cares, Gnus shows me those indentations as octal
> codes, \302\240\302\240 (followed by one ASCII space). I guess a
> \302\240 is a NO-BREAK SPACE in UTF-8, and I guess Gnus does not know
> this because there is no charset specification
In a message of Sat, 25 Jul 2015 20:52:38 +0300, Jussi Piitulainen writes:
>Jussi Piitulainen writes:
>> Has the world adopted UTF-8 as the default charset now or what? (I'll
>> be only glad to hear that it has, if it has, but a reference to some
>> sort of internet standard would be nice.)
I don'
Jussi Piitulainen writes:
> Zachary Ware writes:
[snip what I quoted from him]
Oh well - Gnus made me go through some hoops to send the characters that
were in the unknown-to-it encoding, and then mangled them. This is what
I had added:
> Just in case anyone cares, Gnus shows me those indentati
Zachary Ware writes:
> On Jul 25, 2015 11:35 AM, "Laura Creighton" wrote:
>>
>> Gmail eats Python.
>>
>> We just saw this mail back from Sebastian Luque which says in part:
>>
>> >>>
In a message of Sat, 25 Jul 2015 11:51:49 -0500, Zachary Ware writes:
>On Jul 25, 2015 11:35 AM, "Laura Creighton" wrote:
>>
>> Gmail eats Python.
>>
>> We just saw this mail back from Sebastian Luque which says in part:
>>
>> >>>
On Jul 25, 2015 11:35 AM, "Laura Creighton" wrote:
>
> Gmail eats Python.
>
> We just saw this mail back from Sebastian Luque which says in part:
>
> >>> try: all_your_code_which_is_happy_with_non_scalars except
> >>> Wha
Gmail eats Python.
We just saw this mail back from Sebastian Luque which says in part:
>>> try: all_your_code_which_is_happy_with_non_scalars except
>>> WhateverErrorPythonGivesYouWhenYouTryThisWithScalars:
>>> whatever_you_want_to_do_when_this_happens
Ow! Gmail
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