Re: Business techno & Detroit 313 list
Appreciated your thoughts, David and Kent. And, yes, very telling that here it is a couple of days and still only us 3 white men took the time to contribute. Poor wifi out in the country for a while helping my parents out so not able to be more responsive. Andrew On Wed., Aug. 19, 2020, 1:19 p.m. kent williams, wrote: > Don't worry, the main grief-giver is gone, likely hunkered down in their > Ypsi spite-bunker, telling anyone who'll listen how lame this e-mail list > is. > > Frankie Hutchinson is right on, and more than just her words. The focus of > Discwoman (on women/nonbinary/people of color) created careers for new, > unique voices in dance music, and she's had to deal with a lot of dragging > from people who can't handle the idea of people other than white men > calling the shots. > > The world of dance music has room for all sorts of people, even white men > ;-) but it's clear that the black erasure needs to stop. And the people > feeling attacked over this issue need to open their ears. When > under-represented (and underpaid) artists & DJs are given a chance, they > enlarge and deepen the music. The whole idea that 'affirmative action' is > reverse racism is so stupid. What happens when an effort is made to > include the underrepresented? It exposes whole worlds of talented artists > that were previously ignored. > > So this thread so far is 3 white guys talking, so I'm going to shut up now. > > On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 9:30 PM Andrew Duke > wrote: > >> [I am still shaking my head about the extended insanity that erupted on >> this list the last time I shared a link to dweller (their Juneteeth post >> compiling a listing of 60 articles related to techno's black history.) Not >> in a mood to be trifled with. Do some deep research before you give me >> grief again about my posts aiming to inform and possibly start discussions >> done with respect. Black is spelled "black" in their posts (likely stylized >> lowercase presentations) and I am posting this (below) verbatim. Ash Lauryn >> has written for them. Her sister, The AM, is one of the best new DJs out >> there. And yesteday I literally deleted all music from and related to Kevin >> Saunderson, Juan Atkins, Terrence Dixon, and Scan 7 from my collection. >> Those artists have been HUGE for me, some for 32+ years, but I am not >> interested in supporting artists who do not truly support women in a world >> already full of so many challenges. Check my Facebook if you want more info >> about how I feel. Check Jeff Mills' FB page where people fell over >> themselves yesterday to like the sharing of a June 11 article that trotted >> out more B3 repetition and failed to, once again, acknowledge women. Not >> leaving the list, but getting tired of little effort being made to provide >> what this list could be if more contributed. There are so many talented >> voices here who remain silent. Debate earnestly with diplomacy; take a deep >> breath and reread before you post, though: the internet is forever. Andrew >> Duke >> "Dweller electronics >> writings from a black perspective >> >> Posted on August 18, 2020 >> business techno matters: how those who have the most sacrifice the least >> by frankie decaiza hutchinson" >> >> https://dwellerforever.blog/2020/08/18/business-techno-matters-how-those-who-have-the-most-sacrifice-the-least/ >> >
Re: Business techno & Detroit 313 list
Don't worry, the main grief-giver is gone, likely hunkered down in their Ypsi spite-bunker, telling anyone who'll listen how lame this e-mail list is. Frankie Hutchinson is right on, and more than just her words. The focus of Discwoman (on women/nonbinary/people of color) created careers for new, unique voices in dance music, and she's had to deal with a lot of dragging from people who can't handle the idea of people other than white men calling the shots. The world of dance music has room for all sorts of people, even white men ;-) but it's clear that the black erasure needs to stop. And the people feeling attacked over this issue need to open their ears. When under-represented (and underpaid) artists & DJs are given a chance, they enlarge and deepen the music. The whole idea that 'affirmative action' is reverse racism is so stupid. What happens when an effort is made to include the underrepresented? It exposes whole worlds of talented artists that were previously ignored. So this thread so far is 3 white guys talking, so I'm going to shut up now. On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 9:30 PM Andrew Duke wrote: > [I am still shaking my head about the extended insanity that erupted on > this list the last time I shared a link to dweller (their Juneteeth post > compiling a listing of 60 articles related to techno's black history.) Not > in a mood to be trifled with. Do some deep research before you give me > grief again about my posts aiming to inform and possibly start discussions > done with respect. Black is spelled "black" in their posts (likely stylized > lowercase presentations) and I am posting this (below) verbatim. Ash Lauryn > has written for them. Her sister, The AM, is one of the best new DJs out > there. And yesteday I literally deleted all music from and related to Kevin > Saunderson, Juan Atkins, Terrence Dixon, and Scan 7 from my collection. > Those artists have been HUGE for me, some for 32+ years, but I am not > interested in supporting artists who do not truly support women in a world > already full of so many challenges. Check my Facebook if you want more info > about how I feel. Check Jeff Mills' FB page where people fell over > themselves yesterday to like the sharing of a June 11 article that trotted > out more B3 repetition and failed to, once again, acknowledge women. Not > leaving the list, but getting tired of little effort being made to provide > what this list could be if more contributed. There are so many talented > voices here who remain silent. Debate earnestly with diplomacy; take a deep > breath and reread before you post, though: the internet is forever. Andrew > Duke > "Dweller electronics > writings from a black perspective > > Posted on August 18, 2020 > business techno matters: how those who have the most sacrifice the least > by frankie decaiza hutchinson" > > https://dwellerforever.blog/2020/08/18/business-techno-matters-how-those-who-have-the-most-sacrifice-the-least/ >
Re: Business techno & Detroit 313 list
Sorry, typo in there, I meant to say: "To what extent does the idea of individuals in competition itself always create a kind of pyramid shaped hierarchy where there are only a few winners at the top and everybody else ends up at the bottom? [How do we ]create a situation where there are more opportunities for all talented musicians, and all talented serious working musicians have the opportunity to perform and get paid fairly for their work?" On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 9:56 PM David A. Powers wrote: > Andrew: > > I don't think there are any easy answers to the problems this article > brings up, and especially, these are problems that no individual can solve. > They can only be solved by COLLECTIVE ACTION, something that is especially > difficult during a pandemic. That means that those of us who really want to > make a better future are going to have to connect, come up with strategic > plans, and actually work together to take concrete steps to bring change in > the real world. > > I don't have any easy answers, and I'm personally in a situation where I'm > trying to avoid becoming homeless again, so I'm not sure to what extent I > can do anything beyond looking out for my own survival at the present > moment. > > BUT, I do think I have some idea of the questions that we need to ask and > work on together, if we are serious about creating a different situation: > > * How do we move beyond empty symbolic gestures to create systemic change? > How do we do it in an organized way that doesn't just amount to moralistic > virtue signaling done by individuals that doesn't change the larger > structure? > > * If the music industry is driven by profit, and the profit motive > incentivizes behavior that often results in unjust treatment of people > based on things like gender, race, and class, how is it possible to make > any substantial change within the context of capitalism? To what extent are > concepts of justice compatible with the ideas of free market competition > that are supposed to underlie capitalism? To what extent does the idea of > individuals in competition itself always create a kind of pyramid shaped > hierarchy where there are only a few winners at the top and everybody else > ends up at the bottom, to create a situation where there are more > opportunities for all talented musicians, and all talented serious working > musicians have the opportunity to perform and get paid fairly for their > work? > > * What kind of organizations would allow us to create events with more > just outcomes? How should those organizations be structured? How will they > survive and be sustainable in the context of capitalism and an industry > driven by the pursuit of profit? > > ~David > > On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 9:30 PM Andrew Duke > wrote: > >> [I am still shaking my head about the extended insanity that erupted on >> this list the last time I shared a link to dweller (their Juneteeth post >> compiling a listing of 60 articles related to techno's black history.) Not >> in a mood to be trifled with. Do some deep research before you give me >> grief again about my posts aiming to inform and possibly start discussions >> done with respect. Black is spelled "black" in their posts (likely stylized >> lowercase presentations) and I am posting this (below) verbatim. Ash Lauryn >> has written for them. Her sister, The AM, is one of the best new DJs out >> there. And yesteday I literally deleted all music from and related to Kevin >> Saunderson, Juan Atkins, Terrence Dixon, and Scan 7 from my collection. >> Those artists have been HUGE for me, some for 32+ years, but I am not >> interested in supporting artists who do not truly support women in a world >> already full of so many challenges. Check my Facebook if you want more info >> about how I feel. Check Jeff Mills' FB page where people fell over >> themselves yesterday to like the sharing of a June 11 article that trotted >> out more B3 repetition and failed to, once again, acknowledge women. Not >> leaving the list, but getting tired of little effort being made to provide >> what this list could be if more contributed. There are so many talented >> voices here who remain silent. Debate earnestly with diplomacy; take a deep >> breath and reread before you post, though: the internet is forever. Andrew >> Duke >> "Dweller electronics >> writings from a black perspective >> >> Posted on August 18, 2020 >> business techno matters: how those who have the most sacrifice the least >> by frankie decaiza hutchinson" >> >> https://dwellerforever.blog/2020/08/18/business-techno-matters-how-those-who-have-the-most-sacrifice-the-least/ >> >
Re: Business techno & Detroit 313 list
Andrew: I don't think there are any easy answers to the problems this article brings up, and especially, these are problems that no individual can solve. They can only be solved by COLLECTIVE ACTION, something that is especially difficult during a pandemic. That means that those of us who really want to make a better future are going to have to connect, come up with strategic plans, and actually work together to take concrete steps to bring change in the real world. I don't have any easy answers, and I'm personally in a situation where I'm trying to avoid becoming homeless again, so I'm not sure to what extent I can do anything beyond looking out for my own survival at the present moment. BUT, I do think I have some idea of the questions that we need to ask and work on together, if we are serious about creating a different situation: * How do we move beyond empty symbolic gestures to create systemic change? How do we do it in an organized way that doesn't just amount to moralistic virtue signaling done by individuals that doesn't change the larger structure? * If the music industry is driven by profit, and the profit motive incentivizes behavior that often results in unjust treatment of people based on things like gender, race, and class, how is it possible to make any substantial change within the context of capitalism? To what extent are concepts of justice compatible with the ideas of free market competition that are supposed to underlie capitalism? To what extent does the idea of individuals in competition itself always create a kind of pyramid shaped hierarchy where there are only a few winners at the top and everybody else ends up at the bottom, to create a situation where there are more opportunities for all talented musicians, and all talented serious working musicians have the opportunity to perform and get paid fairly for their work? * What kind of organizations would allow us to create events with more just outcomes? How should those organizations be structured? How will they survive and be sustainable in the context of capitalism and an industry driven by the pursuit of profit? ~David On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 9:30 PM Andrew Duke wrote: > [I am still shaking my head about the extended insanity that erupted on > this list the last time I shared a link to dweller (their Juneteeth post > compiling a listing of 60 articles related to techno's black history.) Not > in a mood to be trifled with. Do some deep research before you give me > grief again about my posts aiming to inform and possibly start discussions > done with respect. Black is spelled "black" in their posts (likely stylized > lowercase presentations) and I am posting this (below) verbatim. Ash Lauryn > has written for them. Her sister, The AM, is one of the best new DJs out > there. And yesteday I literally deleted all music from and related to Kevin > Saunderson, Juan Atkins, Terrence Dixon, and Scan 7 from my collection. > Those artists have been HUGE for me, some for 32+ years, but I am not > interested in supporting artists who do not truly support women in a world > already full of so many challenges. Check my Facebook if you want more info > about how I feel. Check Jeff Mills' FB page where people fell over > themselves yesterday to like the sharing of a June 11 article that trotted > out more B3 repetition and failed to, once again, acknowledge women. Not > leaving the list, but getting tired of little effort being made to provide > what this list could be if more contributed. There are so many talented > voices here who remain silent. Debate earnestly with diplomacy; take a deep > breath and reread before you post, though: the internet is forever. Andrew > Duke > "Dweller electronics > writings from a black perspective > > Posted on August 18, 2020 > business techno matters: how those who have the most sacrifice the least > by frankie decaiza hutchinson" > > https://dwellerforever.blog/2020/08/18/business-techno-matters-how-those-who-have-the-most-sacrifice-the-least/ >
