Re(2): Curious about "functional programming"

[Don Lapin via 4D_Tech]

Hi John,

Do the difficulties of a functional approach apply to almost any database-type 
application, or is it more the issues with error handling in 4D? 

Are there other circumstances where a functional approach works well, or is it 
simply an ideal? Do object-oriented languages (Python/Java/Apex?) work better 
in this regard, or is language unrelated to functional programming?

Thanks (also to Chuck) for replying,
Don


>
>> On Dec 21, 2017, at 3:06 PM, Don Lapin via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.
>4d.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 4D does not seem to lend itself to the functional approach.
>
>Completely true. Changing the database is non-functional. You could try
>to enforce this discipline, but I think it would be difficult to get
>real work done in 4D. Even if you never passed a pointer or used a
>process/interprocess variable, a method might have side effects if it
>changes the database or modifies an object parameter. Error handling in
>4D is incredibly primitive compared to other languages and the only way
>to get error information is via side effects.
>
>
>> 
>> When designing something new, do you give any thought to using one or
>the other approach? Do you force yourself to only return values to a
>calling method? Or do these paradigms represent a distinction of no
>practical significance?
>
>
>I think making every method functional with minimal side effects is a
>good goal. But I don't think it is possible to write understandable and
>maintainable 4D code using a purely functional approach.
>
>John DeSoi, Ph.D.
>
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Re: SFTP and Internet Commands

[Cannon Smith via 4D_Tech]

I’d like to thank Miyako for his help on this issue. It turned out that the 
plugin needed to be updated (twice!) to handle the type of FTP I was using and 
he did it all very quickly. If anyone else needs this, there is a version 1.2 
of the plugin available now.



Thanks, Miyako!

--
Cannon.Smith
Synergy Farm Solutions Inc.
Hill Spring, AB Canada
403-626-3236




> On Dec 20, 2017, at 2:53 PM, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
>> curl --ftp-ssl -T "/Users/Cannon/Desktop/test.zip" -u “install:redacted" 
>> "ftp://install.herdly.cloud/install/"; --connect-timeout 5
> 
> translates to something like
> 

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Re: Database locked in merged application

[Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech]

one thing to keep in mind is that Default.4DD is always opened in R/O mode in a 
built application.
the main objective of this feature is to suppress the "select or create data 
file" dialog on startup.
I understand your app is meant to be R/O,
but normally, there should be code to find and switch to the real data file 
located outside the app.

> 2017/12/22 7:50、Keith Culotta via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> のメール：
> it was set for the app's DB and not for the Default Data folder's DB.




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Re: Database locked in merged application

[Keith Culotta via 4D_Tech]

Re: So it looks like the data file which is wrapped up inside the application 
can’t be used

After opening the app's package, doing a "Get Info" on the contents, making 
permissions R/W, and then building the app, that message went away in the built 
application.  

I had set the DB preference to not alert when the database was in R/O mode, but 
now that I think about it, it was set for the app's DB and not for the Default 
Data folder's DB.  Might revisit that first.

Keith - CDI

> On Dec 21, 2017, at 2:47 AM, James Knight via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Can anyone help me with this?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> James
> 
> 
> Thanks to those who’ve replied so far with this.
> 
> I’m using 4D 15.5 build 15.216758 on Mac OS X 10.13.1
> 
> I think that I’ve followed the instructions for creating a default data file 
> - I have a Default Data folder next to my .4db file, and this contains the 
> default data file (Default.4dd, Default.4Dindx and Default.Match).
> 
> Having built the application, if I inspect the package contents, I see 
> Contents/Database and this contains my 4DC compiled application, with the 
> populated Default Data folder alongside it.
> 
> However, I cannot make this application run at all. It tells me that the data 
> file is locked and it’s impossible to open the database. The only way it will 
> open is if I put a data file in the same folder as the built application,
> 
> So it looks like the data file which is wrapped up inside the application 
> can’t be used, even though no write access is required.
> 
> I haven’t got as far as signing my application - I didn’t think I needed to 
> do this, as I am simply copying the application directly to individual 
> computers on the network. I usually use Remote Desktop to copy the built 
> application to all computers on the LAN.
> 
> Hope someone can help further with this.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> James Knight
> Waveney River Centre
> 
> ja...@waveneyrivercentre.co.uk 
> 
>> On 19 Dec 2017, at 23:16, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com 
>> > wrote:
>> 
>> I don't have a solution but to better understand the situation:
>> 
>> are you actually using the v15 default.4dd system,
>> or simply placing a {name}.4dd adjacent to the compiled structure file?
>> http://doc.4d.com/4Dv15/4D/15/Default-data-file-in-merged-applications.300-2018649.en.html
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> did you code sign (and verify) your built application?
>> 
>> unlikely, but did you check if the read-only-allow property is passed on to 
>> your built application?
>> (for example, by implementing OPEN SETTINGS WINDOW)
>> 
>> http://doc.4d.com/4Dv15/4D/15.4/DatabaseData-storage-page.300-3285380.en.html
>> 
>> least but not least, always good to include the build number of 4D and the 
>> OS.
>> 
>>> 2017/12/20 7:41、James Knight via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> のメール：
>>> It’s clearly permissions related - but how can I fix it?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> **
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Re: Curious about "functional programming"

[John DeSoi via 4D_Tech]

> On Dec 21, 2017, at 3:06 PM, Don Lapin via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> 4D does not seem to lend itself to the functional approach.

Completely true. Changing the database is non-functional. You could try to 
enforce this discipline, but I think it would be difficult to get real work 
done in 4D. Even if you never passed a pointer or used a process/interprocess 
variable, a method might have side effects if it changes the database or 
modifies an object parameter. Error handling in 4D is incredibly primitive 
compared to other languages and the only way to get error information is via 
side effects.


> 
> When designing something new, do you give any thought to using one or the 
> other approach? Do you force yourself to only return values to a calling 
> method? Or do these paradigms represent a distinction of no practical 
> significance?


I think making every method functional with minimal side effects is a good 
goal. But I don't think it is possible to write understandable and maintainable 
4D code using a purely functional approach.

John DeSoi, Ph.D.

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Re: MS SQL Server Deletion Issue

[Charles Miller via 4D_Tech]

Hi ware you connecting to SQL server. Are you logging in or using windows
autghentication fiorm machine. I woiuld try the other and see if there is a
difference

Regards
Chuck

On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 3:04 PM, Stephen J. Orth via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> Is there a known issue in V16 regarding the deletion of records from MS SQL
> Server?
>
> We converted a system from V15 R5 over to V16.3 NB217768.  We are able to
> read SQL records, but no longer able to delete them.
>
> We are using the standard, built in 4D SQL commands, same code in both V15
> &
> V16.
>
>
> Steve
>
> *
>   Stephen J. Orth
>   The Aquila Group, Inc. Office:  (608) 834-9213
>   P.O. Box 690   Mobile:  (608) 347-6447
>   Sun Prairie, WI 53590
>
>   E-Mail:  s.o...@the-aquila-group.com
> *
>
>
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Re: Curious about "functional programming"

[Charles Miller via 4D_Tech]

I view it a little differently although my CS backround is old (graduated
in 1983 with MS)., Procerdural is a style which is baed upon a language,
COBOL for example ios a procedural based language. C++ is an object based
language. Not sure if this helps

Happy holidays to all and to all a good night
Chuck


On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 4:06 PM, Don Lapin via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com
> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> There seem to be at least two different "programming paradigms":
>
> - Procedural programming, where the subroutines make changes to the
> system; and
>
> - Functional programming, where called methods only return results to the
> calling method (ie, the called method does not perform any work which
> changes "state" of the system itself).
>
> There is some discussion of functional programming on Wikipedia.
>
> I looked back on forum messages and didn't find a discussion on this
> topic. Is it too abstract to be practical?
>
> When I'm creating something in 4D, I use both approaches. When some task
> runs to thousands of lines of code, I break it up into subroutines. Usually
> the subroutines perform the actual work - calculations which update field
> or array values.
>
> In some instances, I will write a routine which returns the work product
> without making other changes. But usually the task becomes more complicated
> when it must return its work, rather than simply doing the work.
>
> 4D does not seem to lend itself to the functional approach.
>
> When designing something new, do you give any thought to using one or the
> other approach? Do you force yourself to only return values to a calling
> method? Or do these paradigms represent a distinction of no practical
> significance?
>
> Thanks,
> Don
>
>
> **
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
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Curious about "functional programming"

[Don Lapin via 4D_Tech]

Hello,

There seem to be at least two different "programming paradigms": 

- Procedural programming, where the subroutines make changes to the system; and 

- Functional programming, where called methods only return results to the 
calling method (ie, the called method does not perform any work which changes 
"state" of the system itself).

There is some discussion of functional programming on Wikipedia.

I looked back on forum messages and didn't find a discussion on this topic. Is 
it too abstract to be practical?

When I'm creating something in 4D, I use both approaches. When some task runs 
to thousands of lines of code, I break it up into subroutines. Usually the 
subroutines perform the actual work - calculations which update field or array 
values. 

In some instances, I will write a routine which returns the work product 
without making other changes. But usually the task becomes more complicated 
when it must return its work, rather than simply doing the work.

4D does not seem to lend itself to the functional approach.

When designing something new, do you give any thought to using one or the other 
approach? Do you force yourself to only return values to a calling method? Or 
do these paradigms represent a distinction of no practical significance?

Thanks,
Don


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Re: Creating/Modifying 4DWrite/Pro Documents via Web Page

[Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech]

On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 10:01 AM, Timothy Penner via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> {
> Note: The 4D Write Pro internal document format is a proprietary HTML
> extension, compatible with HTML5/XHTML5, but which supports its own subset
> of HTML/CSS attributes and tags. As a result, only HTML documents exported
> by 4D Write Pro can be opened by 4D Write Pro without any risk of data
> loss. Importing HTML documents that were created externally could produce
> errors.
> }
>

​Which is why despite the many useful things 4dWritePro provides I prefer
to avoid it. ​


Kirk Brooks
San Francisco, CA
===

*The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing.*

*- Edmund Burke*
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MS SQL Server Deletion Issue

[Stephen J. Orth via 4D_Tech]

Is there a known issue in V16 regarding the deletion of records from MS SQL
Server?

We converted a system from V15 R5 over to V16.3 NB217768.  We are able to
read SQL records, but no longer able to delete them.

We are using the standard, built in 4D SQL commands, same code in both V15 &
V16.


Steve

*
  Stephen J. Orth
  The Aquila Group, Inc. Office:  (608) 834-9213
  P.O. Box 690   Mobile:  (608) 347-6447
  Sun Prairie, WI 53590

  E-Mail:  s.o...@the-aquila-group.com
*


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RE: Creating/Modifying 4DWrite/Pro Documents via Web Page

[Timothy Penner via 4D_Tech]

Please keep this in mind;
{
Note: The 4D Write Pro internal document format is a proprietary HTML 
extension, compatible with HTML5/XHTML5, but which supports its own subset of 
HTML/CSS attributes and tags. As a result, only HTML documents exported by 4D 
Write Pro can be opened by 4D Write Pro without any risk of data loss. 
Importing HTML documents that were created externally could produce errors.
}
http://livedoc.4d.com/4Dv16-R4/help/Title/en/page3695.html

-Tim



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RE: Database locked in merged application

[Timothy Penner via 4D_Tech]

My assumption is that the application is falling victim to Gatekeeper and being 
translocated to a read-only location. Apple documents how to get around this; 
they suggest signing the app and placing it on a dmg and then signing the dmg. 
Quote from Apple: "For distribution outside of the Mac App Store, the preferred 
options are to use a signed disk image (DMG) or signed installer package. 
Signing these allows validation of the contents and their source. ZIP archives 
may also be used, but this is discouraged."

However they also mention that if you still deliver the application as a zip 
file then you would need to place the application into the root of the 
/Applications/ folder; so if your application is named myApp.app it should be 
moved exactly to /Applications/myApp.app right after extracting it from the ZIP 
file (not after attempting to run it from somewhere else). But I am pretty sure 
for this to work the application is still supposed to be signed.

Sometimes you can right clicking on the application and choosing "Open" to get 
passed gatekeeper warning about unsigned applications, but I am not sure if 
this affects app translocation.

As a last minute alternative, maybe there is an extended attribute you can 
remove from the installed application (using 'xattr -cr 
/Applications/myApp.app' from a terminal) to get it out of quarantine. I don’t 
know if this will work, but maybe it can help.

Here are some references that may help:
http://kb.4d.com/assetid=77688
https://developer.apple.com/library/content/technotes/tn2206/_index.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/DTS40007919-CH1-TNTAG17
https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/87313/how-to-remove-xattr-com-apple-quarantine-from-all-webarchive-files-with-that-ex


Hope that helps!

-Tim



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Re: Creating/Modifying 4DWrite/Pro Documents via Web Page

[Lee Hinde via 4D_Tech]

The licensing on that and the other contender, https://ckeditor.com 
, isn’t MIT open source, it’s LPGL open source…

https://ckeditor.com/ckeditor-5-framework/pricing/ 

https://www.tinymce.com/pricing/ 



> On Dec 21, 2017, at 12:34 AM, Pat Bensky via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> I'm pretty sure this cannot be done with any flavour of 4DWrite ... I'd
> maybe use something like TinyMCE (
> https://www.tinymce.com/docs/demo/full-featured/) and find a way to insert
> tags to merge data. TinyMCE is open source and either cloud- or self-hosted
> and mobile-friendly.
> 
> This is something that we've thought about doing also, but haven't yet got
> around to exploring it, so I'd be interested to know about any other
> solutions too.
> 
> Pat
> 
> On 21 December 2017 at 01:41, Randy Engle via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> If anybody has done anything like this, love to hear about it!
>> 
>> Our customers want a "complete" web solution.
>> This includes creating and Editing 4DWrite Docs(could be 4DWritePro), from
>> a  browser.
>> (No, probably can't do this with 4DWrite/4DWritePro... but maybe...)
>> Or... the equivalent or something close.
>> Need the usual styles/colors/fonts (Tab Stops!!!), etc.
>> Some fancy super-duper javascript thingy?
>> 
>> The intention is to be able to do a merge with e.g. a list of customers,
>> and print to a PDF.
>> (This is the easy part)
>> 
>> Creating and Editing them in the first place is the fun part.
>> 
>> My brain throws a hissy fit when I try to think of how to do this.
>> 
>> Any brainiacs out there who've done anything remotely like this?
>> 
>> Randy Engle, Director
>> XC2 Software LLC – XC2LIVE!
>> 
>> 
>> **
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> *
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Re: Database locked in merged application

[James Knight via 4D_Tech]

Can anyone help me with this?

Thanks

James


Thanks to those who’ve replied so far with this.

I’m using 4D 15.5 build 15.216758 on Mac OS X 10.13.1

I think that I’ve followed the instructions for creating a default data file - 
I have a Default Data folder next to my .4db file, and this contains the 
default data file (Default.4dd, Default.4Dindx and Default.Match).

Having built the application, if I inspect the package contents, I see 
Contents/Database and this contains my 4DC compiled application, with the 
populated Default Data folder alongside it.

However, I cannot make this application run at all. It tells me that the data 
file is locked and it’s impossible to open the database. The only way it will 
open is if I put a data file in the same folder as the built application,

So it looks like the data file which is wrapped up inside the application can’t 
be used, even though no write access is required.

I haven’t got as far as signing my application - I didn’t think I needed to do 
this, as I am simply copying the application directly to individual computers 
on the network. I usually use Remote Desktop to copy the built application to 
all computers on the LAN.

Hope someone can help further with this.

Cheers

James Knight
Waveney River Centre

ja...@waveneyrivercentre.co.uk 

> On 19 Dec 2017, at 23:16, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com 
> > wrote:
> 
> I don't have a solution but to better understand the situation:
> 
> are you actually using the v15 default.4dd system,
> or simply placing a {name}.4dd adjacent to the compiled structure file?
> http://doc.4d.com/4Dv15/4D/15/Default-data-file-in-merged-applications.300-2018649.en.html
>  
> 
> 
> did you code sign (and verify) your built application?
> 
> unlikely, but did you check if the read-only-allow property is passed on to 
> your built application?
> (for example, by implementing OPEN SETTINGS WINDOW)
> 
> http://doc.4d.com/4Dv15/4D/15.4/DatabaseData-storage-page.300-3285380.en.html
> 
> least but not least, always good to include the build number of 4D and the OS.
> 
>> 2017/12/20 7:41、James Knight via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> のメール：
>> It’s clearly permissions related - but how can I fix it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Sending attachments with SMTP_QuickSend?

[Pat Bensky via 4D_Tech]

Excellent stuff, thanks Keisuke!
I've got it working now.
Pat

On 20 December 2017 at 00:42, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> just posted some here:
>
> https://github.com/miyako/4d-tips-send-mail
>
> obviously you need to fill it with your own account details. (they are
> removed in the published example)
>
> 2017/12/20 9:17、Pat Bensky via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com d_t...@lists.4d.com>> のメール：
>
> Thanks Keisuke ... Do you have some sample code you could share? I tried
> attaching a small image. It seemed to send OK (error code=0), but if I sent
> it to my Mail account I didn't receive it, and if I sent it to my Gmail
> account the picture wasn't attached (just lots of code).
>
>
>
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Re: Creating/Modifying 4DWrite/Pro Documents via Web Page

[Paul Dennis via 4D_Tech]

I assumed when they announced write pro and it was based upon HTML that we
would be able to do this but progress has been slow and nothing's been
announced.  As Pat mentioned you should be able to use one of the JavaScript
editors such as Tinymce but I believe that write pro uses custom tags so
don't know if you can preserve the formatting. If the file format is html
but you cannot do this then I dont understand why this format was chosen. As
of today write pro offers no advantage over the old 4d write.
Paul



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Re: Creating/Modifying 4DWrite/Pro Documents via Web Page

[Pat Bensky via 4D_Tech]

I'm pretty sure this cannot be done with any flavour of 4DWrite ... I'd
maybe use something like TinyMCE (
https://www.tinymce.com/docs/demo/full-featured/) and find a way to insert
tags to merge data. TinyMCE is open source and either cloud- or self-hosted
and mobile-friendly.

This is something that we've thought about doing also, but haven't yet got
around to exploring it, so I'd be interested to know about any other
solutions too.

Pat

On 21 December 2017 at 01:41, Randy Engle via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
wrote:

> If anybody has done anything like this, love to hear about it!
>
> Our customers want a "complete" web solution.
> This includes creating and Editing 4DWrite Docs(could be 4DWritePro), from
> a  browser.
> (No, probably can't do this with 4DWrite/4DWritePro... but maybe...)
> Or... the equivalent or something close.
> Need the usual styles/colors/fonts (Tab Stops!!!), etc.
> Some fancy super-duper javascript thingy?
>
> The intention is to be able to do a merge with e.g. a list of customers,
> and print to a PDF.
> (This is the easy part)
>
> Creating and Editing them in the first place is the fun part.
>
> My brain throws a hissy fit when I try to think of how to do this.
>
> Any brainiacs out there who've done anything remotely like this?
>
> Randy Engle, Director
> XC2 Software LLC – XC2LIVE!
>
>
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