Re: Living past "End of support"

[nug via 4D_Tech]

Rob,
my view...
if the version of 4D you are using works, with the OS version you are using - 
you are golden.

The only time problems come about is when newer OS's will no longer work with 
your current version.

* 4d has been exceptional at keeping backward compatibilty, so.. if it works in 
the version you are using -- most often -- you can upgrade as needed for the 
new OS without doing much or any work.


* this will depend on how old a version of 4D you are using, updating from v6 
to v19 will require work. going from v16 to 19, not so much.

Chip
> On Sep 30, 2021, at 2:23 PM, Rob Faucett via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Hello Folks – How nerve wracking is it to continue using a 4D version that is 
> “no longer supported?”  The timeline listed on the 4D website is faster than 
> we have deployed in the past.
> 
> Does it make any of you unreasonably concerned that you might be using an 
> “unsupported” version?
> 
> Thanks in advance for any opinions.  We run a pretty simple instance of 4D 
> (5-6 users and down for a day is not the end of the world.
> 
> Much appreciated,
> Rob
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Robert C. Faucett
> Collections Manager
> Ornithology
> Burke Museum
> Box 353010
> University of Washington
> Seattle, WA 98195-3010
> Office: 206-543-1668
> Cell: 206-619-5569
> Fax: 206-685-3039
> rfauc...@uw.edu
> 
> https://www.burkemuseum.org/collections-and-research/biology/ornithology
> https://www.burkemuseum.org/collections-and-research/biology/genetic-resources
> 
> Plan you visit to the Burke Museum at burkemuseum.org.
> 
> 
> **
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Re: Living past "End of support"

[Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech]

Rob
Here are my thoughts about upgrading.

1) do you own the source code?
If so you have the flexibility to update if you want/need to. Whether you
do it yourself or hire someone you have the options. If you are running a
compiled or built app you will have to interact with the developer.

2) are you a Mac shop?
As Miyako has said, "Apple doesn't like old." The Mac OS is changing
regularly so you will need to either update more often or be satisfied
running increasingly old versions of Mac OS. That's fine as far as it goes
but also means when something finally does just stop working you will be
updating a lot of your tech stack. (BTW - I have only developed on a Mac
since 1988.)

It's easier if you run Windows. I have one client still running v2004
Server on Windows Server 2012. Your mileage may vary.

3) does your app have a lot of plugins or components?
Just because you may be able to update 4D doesn't mean you can update these
items. One little plugin that's only 32bit and you can't find the developer
to get an update and you are cooked until you rewrite the code to eliminate
the plugin.

4) what is the security situation like for your network?
If you are running your own network and not paying too much attention to
things like file permissions you don't have much to worry about. On the
other hand if your app is on a secure network the newer the version of 4D
is the easier it generally is to keep up.

That client running v2004? City government office. IT has been hounding
them for several years now to get rid of the system because they don't want
Windows 2012 on their network due to security concerns. Office pays a
$2k/yr premium to keep running that program. (They don't have source so
can't upgrade.)

5) are you using the web server or other connection services?
Even lowly email. If your app sends/receives email chances are good it uses
the 4D internet tools. This is code written in the early 90's. It's still
serviceable though can be prickly to get set up to work with sites using
Oauth2 like gmail. The new tools for managing email are really great and
make the job easier. 4D has already deprecated all of 4D Internet Tools
except for a small subset and those will be gone soon.

The web server is basically a web server though depending on the version of
4D you are running you may or may not have a sufficient version of TLS for
every client. Newer versions of 4D have more modern options.

6) are you and your users OK with using hardware a model or two behind the
times?
This is almost a continuation of #2. But all the new machines are
increasingly 64 bit only. Apple for sure and Windows somewhat. Depending on
how old your 4D version is this can be show stopper. There are usually
solutions available through running some sort of emulator or VM ware. That
may be no biggie or may be a complete PITA.

7) how complex is your app?
The more complex it is the more likely you are to get bit by some issue
caused by changes in the OS or network environment. On the other hand if
it's a really simple app there are literally fewer things that can go wrong
so it's less susceptible to such vagaries.

I think those are the key questions to ask yourself because those points
can bring you to a hard stop. Notice how much of it has to do with security
and hardware? Old hardware and low security can probably still run 4D v6.
Newer hardware and modern security is different. The thing about running
the old stuff is it will keep going until it just doesn't.

#3 is a good argument for keeping current. A lot of things we needed
plugins to do in the past are easy to do in native 4D now.

Hope this gives you some perspective to evaluate what's best for you.

On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 11:24 AM Rob Faucett via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> Hello Folks – How nerve wracking is it to continue using a 4D version that
> is “no longer supported?”  The timeline listed on the 4D website is faster
> than we have deployed in the past.
>
> Does it make any of you unreasonably concerned that you might be using an
> “unsupported” version?
>
> Thanks in advance for any opinions.  We run a pretty simple instance of 4D
> (5-6 users and down for a day is not the end of the world.
>
> Much appreciated,
> Rob
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Robert C. Faucett
> Collections Manager
> Ornithology
> Burke Museum
> Box 353010
> University of Washington
> Seattle, WA 98195-3010
> Office: 206-543-1668
> Cell: 206-619-5569
> Fax: 206-685-3039
> rfauc...@uw.edu
>
> https://www.burkemuseum.org/collections-and-research/biology/ornithology
>
> https://www.burkemuseum.org/collections-and-research/biology/genetic-resources
>
> Plan you visit to the Burke Museum at burkemuseum.org<
> http://burkemuseum.org>.
>
>
> **
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> New Forum: https://discuss.4D.com
> Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
> Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_t

Re: Living past "End of support"

[MacCafe Eric Naujock via 4D_Tech]

This is actually the model used by many software producers. Usually its the 
current and 1 prior major releases. Then off the the dustbin with it. In the 
internet age many have taken too the Facebook development model. Move fast and 
break things. Then fix them as you go. But it depends on how far back your 
holding on to.
———
Whitespace Solutions

Apple Consultants Network

7860 Central Ave
Toledo, OH 43617
Phone: (419) 885-1240 X 241
Fax: (419) 517-2063
Eric Naujock  - Apple - ACTC 10.6, 10.7, 10.8, 10.9, 10.10 ACSP 10.11, 10.12, 
10.13, 10.14, 10.15
A+, Network+, I-net+
http://www.whitespace.solutions
email: eric@whitespace.solutions




> On Sep 30, 2021, at 2:23 PM, Rob Faucett via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Hello Folks – How nerve wracking is it to continue using a 4D version that is 
> “no longer supported?”  The timeline listed on the 4D website is faster than 
> we have deployed in the past.
> 
> Does it make any of you unreasonably concerned that you might be using an 
> “unsupported” version?
> 
> Thanks in advance for any opinions.  We run a pretty simple instance of 4D 
> (5-6 users and down for a day is not the end of the world.
> 
> Much appreciated,
> Rob
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Robert C. Faucett
> Collections Manager
> Ornithology
> Burke Museum
> Box 353010
> University of Washington
> Seattle, WA 98195-3010
> Office: 206-543-1668
> Cell: 206-619-5569
> Fax: 206-685-3039
> rfauc...@uw.edu
> 
> https://www.burkemuseum.org/collections-and-research/biology/ornithology
> https://www.burkemuseum.org/collections-and-research/biology/genetic-resources
> 
> Plan you visit to the Burke Museum at burkemuseum.org.
> 
> 
> **
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> New Forum: https://discuss.4D.com
> Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
> Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
> Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
> **

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Living past "End of support"

[Rob Faucett via 4D_Tech]

Hello Folks – How nerve wracking is it to continue using a 4D version that is 
“no longer supported?”  The timeline listed on the 4D website is faster than we 
have deployed in the past.

Does it make any of you unreasonably concerned that you might be using an 
“unsupported” version?

Thanks in advance for any opinions.  We run a pretty simple instance of 4D (5-6 
users and down for a day is not the end of the world.

Much appreciated,
Rob





--
Robert C. Faucett
Collections Manager
Ornithology
Burke Museum
Box 353010
University of Washington
Seattle, WA 98195-3010
Office: 206-543-1668
Cell: 206-619-5569
Fax: 206-685-3039
rfauc...@uw.edu

https://www.burkemuseum.org/collections-and-research/biology/ornithology
https://www.burkemuseum.org/collections-and-research/biology/genetic-resources

Plan you visit to the Burke Museum at burkemuseum.org.


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