Re: Migrating OS X server to Windows Server

[Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech]

Thanks to everyone for your help and advice.

The Power Sleep option was a killer. When we turned it off the 4D Server 
performance problems went away instantly. What a relief. Why on earth would 
Apple even have that option available and set to default on a server OS?

In any case, the immediate problem of running v12 on OS X 10.10.5 is resolved. 
Next step: install our upgraded databases on v15.


Paul



> Le 18 mai 2017 à 16:24, Myriad List via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> a 
> écrit :
> 
> Paul;
> 
> We have several instances of this specific problem.  I have several points 
> that may help your decision.
> 
> On April 4th of this year Apple announced that a new modular successor model 
> to the Mac Pro was being designed and would be available potentially 2018 
> because they were just starting work on it.  Now as we know Apple is super 
> tight lipped on product so we believe something shocked Apple into taking 
> this action including announcing what they were building.  I confirmed this 
> with an Apple Business rep and the news was published in several places.  The 
> successor will be modular and not based on the current cylinder.  It should 
> be a more worthy successor to the Pro Towers which while not rack mounted 
> were quite solid.
> 
> https://www.macrumors.com/2017/04/04/apple-updates-mac-pro-and-more/ 
> 
> 
> Secondly you can get decent refurbs of the Mac Pro Aluminums towers
> 
> Our 4D Server Mac clients really didn’t want to introduce Windows Server 
> unless it was absolutely necessary so with this news some are waiting it out 
> and some have purchased a “bridge” box in the meantime.  You can find very 
> capable Aluminum MacPro towers refurbished from macsales.com 
> .  The price is very reasonable and some can handle up 
> to 128 gigs ram.  2011 and 2012 units which can handle OSX 10.6.8 through 
> 10.11 are readily available.  Plenty of spare parts exist for redundancy, 
> including processors, video and power supplies.  You can get decent Xeon 
> 4,6,8 or 12 core boxes 3.46 Ghz.
> 
> John Bernhoft
> Myriad Systems llc
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RE: Migrating OS X server to Windows Server

[Myriad List via 4D_Tech]

Paul;

We have several instances of this specific problem.  I have several points that 
may help your decision.

On April 4th of this year Apple announced that a new modular successor model to 
the Mac Pro was being designed and would be available potentially 2018 because 
they were just starting work on it.  Now as we know Apple is super tight lipped 
on product so we believe something shocked Apple into taking this action 
including announcing what they were building.  I confirmed this with an Apple 
Business rep and the news was published in several places.  The successor will 
be modular and not based on the current cylinder.  It should be a more worthy 
successor to the Pro Towers which while not rack mounted were quite solid.

https://www.macrumors.com/2017/04/04/apple-updates-mac-pro-and-more/ 


Secondly you can get decent refurbs of the Mac Pro Aluminums towers

Our 4D Server Mac clients really didn’t want to introduce Windows Server unless 
it was absolutely necessary so with this news some are waiting it out and some 
have purchased a “bridge” box in the meantime.  You can find very capable 
Aluminum MacPro towers refurbished from macsales.com .  
The price is very reasonable and some can handle up to 128 gigs ram.  2011 and 
2012 units which can handle OSX 10.6.8 through 10.11 are readily available.  
Plenty of spare parts exist for redundancy, including processors, video and 
power supplies.  You can get decent Xeon 4,6,8 or 12 core boxes 3.46 Ghz.

John Bernhoft
Myriad Systems llc
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Re: Migrating OS X server to Windows Server

[Wayne Stewart via 4D_Tech]

Hi,

I reckon the main consideration is (depending on size of the organisation
and knowledge of the IT staff) go with what the people onsite are familiar
dealing with.

So an i7 iMac with SSD may be sufficient, I have a number of sites running
off a 27" quad-core iMac or 2012 Mac mini.  I suggested they would get
better performance from a Windows box but none of the clinics' owners have
experience with Windows so that suggestion has been always declined.

Admittedly these are small databases (3 - 10 GB) with low user numbers
(5-15 users).



Regards,

Wayne


[image: --]
Wayne Stewart
[image: http://]about.me/waynestewart



On 18 May 2017 at 11:30, James Crate via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
wrote:

> On May 17, 2017, at 9:12 AM, Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech <
> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> >
> > We are hitting the limits of our old xServe hardware which is currently
> running large v12 databases. We are planning a major upgrade to 4D v15 but
> we are running into difficulties with the stability of these old xServes
> with OS X 10.10 or more recent, which is required for v15. We are currently
> attempting to run v12 on OS X 10.10.5 and the results are disastrous, so we
> have to go back to older OS versions.
> >
> > Since Apple has no longer upgraded its server hardware for over 7 years,
> this is obviously a lost cause. So we will be looking to move to Windows.
> >
> > Has anyone done such a move recently? Does 4D have a policy for
> side-grades from Mac to Win for server licenses?
>
> MacOS 10.11.x has been stable on my client’s 2009 Xserves. However, 4D v12
> is likely not compatible with macOS 10.10.x. Also 4D v13 will crash
> frequently on client machines with 10.11.x.
>
> You can put a PCIe SSD card in Xserves; since it’s only PCIe 2.0 the
> bandwidth is limited to around 8Gb/s, but that’s still more than 6Gb/s SAS.
> While other database engines run well on spinning hard drives, 4D should
> only be run on an SSD. I am so happy the days of 3-5 minute sequential
> table searches on a single field in a 100K row table are behind me…
>
> Jim Crate
>
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Re: Migrating OS X server to Windows Server

[James Crate via 4D_Tech]

On May 17, 2017, at 9:12 AM, Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
wrote:
> 
> We are hitting the limits of our old xServe hardware which is currently 
> running large v12 databases. We are planning a major upgrade to 4D v15 but we 
> are running into difficulties with the stability of these old xServes with OS 
> X 10.10 or more recent, which is required for v15. We are currently 
> attempting to run v12 on OS X 10.10.5 and the results are disastrous, so we 
> have to go back to older OS versions.
> 
> Since Apple has no longer upgraded its server hardware for over 7 years, this 
> is obviously a lost cause. So we will be looking to move to Windows.
> 
> Has anyone done such a move recently? Does 4D have a policy for side-grades 
> from Mac to Win for server licenses?

MacOS 10.11.x has been stable on my client’s 2009 Xserves. However, 4D v12 is 
likely not compatible with macOS 10.10.x. Also 4D v13 will crash frequently on 
client machines with 10.11.x. 

You can put a PCIe SSD card in Xserves; since it’s only PCIe 2.0 the bandwidth 
is limited to around 8Gb/s, but that’s still more than 6Gb/s SAS. While other 
database engines run well on spinning hard drives, 4D should only be run on an 
SSD. I am so happy the days of 3-5 minute sequential table searches on a single 
field in a 100K row table are behind me…

Jim Crate

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RE: Migrating OS X server to Windows Server

[Epperlein, Lutz (agendo) via 4D_Tech]

My 2 cents:
http://kb.4d.com/assetid=77769

Regards 
Lutz
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Re: Migrating OS X server to Windows Server

[Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech]

Sorry Alex,
I will disagree...
your statement makes me "WannaCry".
(in case anyone misses the point... 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WannaCry_ransomware_attack)

On Wed, 17 May 2017 15:23:37 +0200, Herr Alexander Heintz via 4D_Tech 
wrote:
> far easier to administrate.
---
Gas is for washing parts
Alcohol is for drinkin'
Nitromethane is for racing 
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Re: Migrating OS X server to Windows Server

[Herr Alexander Heintz via 4D_Tech]

Been there,
done that

When upgrading you licence to, say V15, you can register that license on a 
totally different platform, no hassle.

I advise all my clients to move to Windows for Server, its just so much more 
bang for your buck and far easier to administrate.
Oh, and 64Bit even on V12.
As for moving your V12 Licenses to Windows:
Call your 4D Sales Rep, they can „reset“ the activation of your license and you 
can re-register it on another platform.

Cheers
Alex

> Am 17.05.2017 um 15:12 schrieb Paul Lovejoy via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> We are hitting the limits of our old xServe hardware which is currently 
> running large v12 databases. We are planning a major upgrade to 4D v15 but we 
> are running into difficulties with the stability of these old xServes with OS 
> X 10.10 or more recent, which is required for v15. We are currently 
> attempting to run v12 on OS X 10.10.5 and the results are disastrous, so we 
> have to go back to older OS versions.
> 
> Since Apple has no longer upgraded its server hardware for over 7 years, this 
> is obviously a lost cause. So we will be looking to move to Windows.
> 
> Has anyone done such a move recently? Does 4D have a policy for side-grades 
> from Mac to Win for server licenses?
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> 
> Paul
> **
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