Re: Thoughts and Suggestions ?

[Luc Devar via 4D_Tech]

Offline Data collection system

I have in place such a system that does that via PDF enterable form. 

A Work Order is generated out of 4D creating multiple enterable PDF document 
saved into Drop Box shared directory.  I am using a plugin from Pluggers 
software called QPDF. This tool allows me to create complex enterable PDF 
documents out of 4D.  Each line of a document or each document has a unique iD 
from 4D.  We have different kinds of information that need to be collected and 
different PDF form are used depending on the type of information. PDF can be as 
complex as a input layout or as simple as a listbox.

The iPad sync with DropBox.

The technician go out  into the field-work (no internet connection) and do the 
data collection. The data is stored directly into nicely formatted enterable 
PDF form that was created by 4D. Form can contain text field, drop-down list, 
picture field, text field, radio buttons, etc.  The technician come back to the 
office and syncs the iPad with DropBox.

4D read back the PDF document with the same plugins and store the information.

Contact me if you want to see a demo via an online session.

Luc Devar


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Re: Thoughts and Suggestions?

[Douglas Cryer via 4D_Tech]

Ken,

We have two similar use  cases linked to our i.LEVEL solution.
Order Taker - This is for sales agents throughout Europe selling a large range 
of fashion clothing and jewellery
Store Controller - This is for concession store managers travelling the country 
visiting their concessions in hundreds of retail chains

Both systems download sync code data before  they head off to do their jobs and 
when next able upload orders, store notes images and recommendations.  The 
comms is done via REST as we have built a full REST stack into the main system. 
 The Order Taker was originally built on SOAP but we are now transitioning away 
from that and next season it will be fully REST based.

No iPads though.  One or two clients originally suggested that they wanted 
iPads but when we offered them a far cheaper, more reliable  solution (written 
in 4D) that could be used on Mac or PC laptops as well as cheap as chips 
windows 10 tablets we got real traction on sales.  We now have more than half a 
dozen clients using the solutions and approaching hundreds of agents and store 
controllers.

4D is not the best application to write touch based applications in, as it 
still has some issues, but it is an effective and cost effective solution.

Regards,  Dougie


telekinetix Limited- J. Douglas Cryer
Phone : 01234 761759  Mobile : 07973 675 218
2nd Floor Broadway House, 4-6 The Broadway, Bedford MK40 2TE
Email : jdcr...@telekinetix.com  Web : http://www.telekinetix.com 






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Re: Thoughts and Suggestions?

[Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech]

Ken,
The tricky part is:

On Mon, Oct 1, 2018 at 5:00 PM Kenneth Geiger via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> These people need to take notes and record data during their field-work
> using iPads. Then, once they get back to “civilization”, this data needs to
> be uploaded to the Database.


How are you going to do that? You didn't mention which version of 4D you
are looking at. I strongly suggest 17 because when it comes to transferring
data over the web it's most likely going to be JSON and you can't beat v17
for working with that.

But what's the interface to collect the data and then what's the mechanism
to transfer it? iPads and iPhones can use the Apple office apps, like Pages
and Numbers. Numbers makes it easier to export to tabular data but would
suck to write more than a few words at a time. Haven't looked at Pages to
see if they have a usable form tool. In either event you'll need to make it
easy to move this data to where you can get to it. I'd look at Dropbox, Box
or the like where you (actually your client) can own the box the docs get
dropped in. Or rather they will need to be exported to the cloud
destination because 4D can't do anything with native Numbers or Pages files
as far as I know.

We currently use emails for importing data (notes and pictures). This may
be a workable solution in that you could use a mail app that allows writing
emails offline. If you're interested in this I'll share the details.

Another idea is to build (or have built) a single page web app that could
cache the data until it gets signal.

And there's always the possibility of 4D Mobile maturing to the point of
being able to send data by the time you need it. Of all the options that
would be the best.

I think the input process is going to dictate what you need to do on the
back end. In most of them (4D Mobile excepted, perhaps) something like
Randy describes is what you'll want to do. But frankly that's going to be
the easy part - working out how your users will collect data on an iPad,
store it, and then transfer it is the nut to crack.

Have a conversation with the folks at 4D about this. It really is a
fabulous first case for 4D Mobile.

-- 
Kirk Brooks
San Francisco, CA
===

*We go vote - they go home*
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Re: Thoughts and Suggestions?

[Kenneth Geiger via 4D_Tech]

Hi Randy,

THANK YOU

This scenario is kind of what I was anticipating. Your comments have really 
helped flesh-out my plans.

Regards,

Ken

> On Oct 1, 2018, at 6:35 PM, Randy Engle via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Ken,
> 
> Sound like a worthy project!
> 
> We do this in our system.
> We use SOAP for the connection
> (cause it's an old system, before Objects and Http Request in 4D)
> 
> NOTE:  You should use "Alpha" fields as your ID fields
> Have each remote use their own Alpha-Prefix for the field value
> 
> This is an "EXTREMELY" shortened summary
> 
> The "Remote" systems are the same structure as the "master" System
> 
> 1.Create a table:  e.g. [Synch_Records]
> 
> 2.As record on the "Remote" system is saved
>   In the Trigger (could be otherwise)
>   Determine all fields in the table that have been modified
>   Store an array of field Numbers in the Synch table
> 
> 3.Upon connecting to the "master system" network
>   1 Synch record at a time (in case of disconnect)
>   Get the field values of the record for the field numbers stored
>   Pack it all into a BLOB  (or Object)
>   a.  Record ID Number
>   b.  Table Number
>   c.  Array of field Numbers
>   d.  Array of Field Values
> 
> 4.Lookup the table/record Id in the master system
>   Update the master system record (or create it)
>   Send a confirmation to the remote that this record has been updated
>   Set a "complete" flag on the remote system for that record
>   Rinse and Repeat
> 
> 5.You could do this for records coming from the Master to the remote as 
> well.
> 
> Randy Engle, Director
> XC2 Software LLC – XC2LIVE!
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: 4D_Tech <4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com> On Behalf Of Kenneth Geiger via 
> 4D_Tech
> Sent: Monday, October 1, 2018 5:00 PM
> To: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> Cc: Kenneth Geiger 
> Subject: Thoughts and Suggestions?
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> I’m in the initial stages of discussing a potential new 4D Database with a 
> client. It will be Client/Server (5 to 10 users) in a Mac environment. The 
> issue is that they will have people working outside in the woods  where they 
> are virtually guarantied not to have Internet access via cell-service or 
> otherwise. These people need to take notes and record data during their 
> field-work using iPads. Then, once they get back to “civilization”, this data 
> needs to be uploaded to the Database. Obviously, they would not like to have 
> to re-enter the data. Any thoughts or suggestions on how to structure this 
> and/or what tools might be employed would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> TIA
> 
> Ken Geiger
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Thoughts and Suggestions?

[Kenneth Geiger via 4D_Tech]

Hi All,

I’m in the initial stages of discussing a potential new 4D Database with a 
client. It will be Client/Server (5 to 10 users) in a Mac environment. The 
issue is that they will have people working outside in the woods  where they 
are virtually guarantied not to have Internet access via cell-service or 
otherwise. These people need to take notes and record data during their 
field-work using iPads. Then, once they get back to “civilization”, this data 
needs to be uploaded to the Database. Obviously, they would not like to have to 
re-enter the data. Any thoughts or suggestions on how to structure this and/or 
what tools might be employed would be greatly appreciated.

TIA

Ken Geiger
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