Re: [9fans] Laptop advice
I could well believe that Vista would struggle on anything less than a Cray, but Linux isn't *that* demanding is it? I had a look at the T22 specs and they seem pretty respectable to me, at least compared to some of the systems I have Linux running on (eg 64MB, 266MHz Pentium MMX). And BSD is still running fine on my 48MB, 66MHz 486dx (although admitedly its not so good for running netscape or heavy crypto). Of course it might be different if I were trying to run full blown KDE or GNOME, but you can't really blame the operating system for that. (though a T22 looks like it would be able to handle it if necessary) I do find I tend to need a lot more HDD capacity than comes as standard on older machines when running a Unix variant. But even my old 486 was upgradeable from the original 122MB hard drive to a pair of 40GB drives, so it isn't usually a problem. Personally I think there is a lot to be said for doing development on modest spec'd machines, unless (like Microsoft) you have a vested interest in generating a need for hardware upgrades... Anyway - I found an old Thinkpad 600 in my junk box. Anyone know if that would make a useable Plan9 machine? DigbyT On Sun, Jun 08, 2008 at 06:47:53PM +0200, Uriel wrote: The classic T22 with the SXGA+ screen seem to still be the best (you should get an orinoco pcmcia card for wifi, which is the only one supported anyway). And they can be found quite cheaply (around 300$ I think). Of course, if you also want to run a recent lunix version or vista, or whatever, you probably will need something more 'modern'. uriel On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 1:27 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm looking for a laptop that will run Plan 9 native and not sacrifice too many of its features in the process. High resolution screen and supported Wi-Fi (possibly add-on, in which case, please recommend a product and a source) are particularly desirable assets, audio would be nice. I won't mind using an external mouse, seeing that there is little alternative. And considering that I'm likely to look for a refurbished model, it does not necessarily have to be Intel or AMD, a Mac need not be excluded. Let me know. I don't have to buy locally (South Africa) or in a hurry, so if anyone has something for sale that will travel safely, I may be very interested. ++L PS: I suspect I'll boot-select (Ubuntu) Linux most of the time and run Plan 9 under VMware server, but being able to boot-select a decent version of Plan 9 is absolutely essential. -- Digby R. S. Tarvin digbyt(at)digbyt.com http://www.digbyt.com
Re: [9fans] Laptop advice
than a Cray, but Linux isn't *that* demanding is it? last week i added 1gb RAM to my previously 512mbyte lenovo (3000 N100) to stop the linux system from thrashing. all i run directly is firefox and drawterm. the system was fine at 512mbyte until a few weeks ago (when more updates arrived). i could probably have got by with `only' 256mbyte or 512mbyte more but the bigger memory card was hardly more expensive.
Re: [9fans] Laptop advice
Who needs firefox having abaco ;) In fact I think linux has become more and more bloa... I mean resource demanding lately. Some years ago I had a 100MHz IBM (Cyrix?) 8MiB ram machine that made marvels for me... It is impressive what we did with so little... 3d modelling, raytracing... What did get so wrong that now people are willing to pay for a 1GiB ram minimum resource predator? Anyway... Someone told me that Toshiba Libretto C70 works good with plan 9... plus it is VHS sized. (I think that floppy is a little tricky... I'll have to ask) On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 10:49 AM, erik quanstrom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon Jun 9 11:33:19 EDT 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I could well believe that Vista would struggle on anything less than a Cray, but Linux isn't *that* demanding is it? I had a look at the T22 specs and they seem pretty respectable to me, at least compared to some of the systems I have Linux running on (eg 64MB, 266MHz Pentium MMX). And BSD is still running fine on my 48MB, 66MHz 486dx (although admitedly its not so good for running netscape or heavy crypto). Of course it might be different if I were trying to run full blown KDE or GNOME, but you can't really blame the operating system for that. (though a T22 looks like it would be able to handle it if necessary) well the first thing most people run on linux is firefox, flash and acrobat. those three horsemen of the apocalypse bring my pIII/256mb machine to its knees. while your point is valid, the only reason i run linux at all is for the three horsemen. so maybe linux is not short for gnu/linux in most people's mind, it's short for firefox/linux. :-) - erik
Re: [9fans] Laptop advice
Actually, since you mention it, a Toshiba Libretto is one of the 'modest' machines I have Linux running on: Kernel command line: auto BOOT_IMAGE=linux/xaccel ro root=306 BOOT_FILE=/boot/vmlinuz monitor=xaccel Initializing CPU#0 Detected 166.637 MHz processor. Console: colour VGA+ 80x25 Calibrating delay loop... 332.59 BogoMIPS Memory: 62132k/65664k available (1263k kernel code, 3144k reserved, 370k data, 120k init, 0k highmem) I'm still running netscape on it because I fear Firefox may have bloated beyond its reasonable capabilities... It is a 100CT, not a 70, but maybe I should give it a try a try with plan9 too. And yes, the floppy is often problematic as it is an external PCMCIA device. The BIOS knows how to boot from it, but most installers fail when they try to access the floppy themselves (such as to load the driver for a PCMCIA CDROM drive or network card). There is a patch to get it working under Linux, but you need a non-standard install to get up to the point of being able to use it. Once you get over the install hurdle, however, it works just fine with most OSs. It might be a compact little Plan9 machine - if the 800x480 display isn't too limiting.. Regards, DigbyT On Mon, Jun 09, 2008 at 11:12:45AM -0500, Lorenzo Fernando Bivens de la Fuente wrote: Who needs firefox having abaco ;) In fact I think linux has become more and more bloa... I mean resource demanding lately. Some years ago I had a 100MHz IBM (Cyrix?) 8MiB ram machine that made marvels for me... It is impressive what we did with so little... 3d modelling, raytracing... What did get so wrong that now people are willing to pay for a 1GiB ram minimum resource predator? Anyway... Someone told me that Toshiba Libretto C70 works good with plan 9... plus it is VHS sized. (I think that floppy is a little tricky... I'll have to ask) On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 10:49 AM, erik quanstrom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon Jun 9 11:33:19 EDT 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I could well believe that Vista would struggle on anything less than a Cray, but Linux isn't *that* demanding is it? I had a look at the T22 specs and they seem pretty respectable to me, at least compared to some of the systems I have Linux running on (eg 64MB, 266MHz Pentium MMX). And BSD is still running fine on my 48MB, 66MHz 486dx (although admitedly its not so good for running netscape or heavy crypto). Of course it might be different if I were trying to run full blown KDE or GNOME, but you can't really blame the operating system for that. (though a T22 looks like it would be able to handle it if necessary) well the first thing most people run on linux is firefox, flash and acrobat. those three horsemen of the apocalypse bring my pIII/256mb machine to its knees. while your point is valid, the only reason i run linux at all is for the three horsemen. so maybe linux is not short for gnu/linux in most people's mind, it's short for firefox/linux. :-) - erik -- Digby R. S. Tarvin digbyt(at)digbyt.com http://www.digbyt.com
Re: [9fans] usbohci in pccpuf
Hello 9fans, Jsyk, I had to comment out usbohci in /sys/src/9/pc/pccpuf for the usb keyboard to work with a freshly built 9pccpuf. (there's only usb ports on the eserver 325). System pulled last friday (06/06/08). Cheers, Mathieu. likely if you turn off usb legacy in bios, you will be able to use the standard kernel. - erik
Re: [9fans] Laptop advice
I am trying Eeepc... But I've had a lot of work lately, so I've fallen into the lunix dark side in the meanwhile. I think it is mostly an usb bootability matter. Eeepc ain't very exotic... On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 1:41 PM, matt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Back in March people were trying the EEEPC with slight progress - did anyone get any joy there ? I have a T23 which is a good Plan 9 laptop with Orinoco PCMCIA WiFi, though I've not tried the AC97 They are under 200 euros on ebay with 512Mb 80Gb 1024x768 screen 3 buttons and a nipple not a touchpad no Windows key :)
Re: [9fans] Laptop advice
On Mon, 2008-06-09 at 16:45 +0100, Charles Forsyth wrote: than a Cray, but Linux isn't *that* demanding is it? last week i added 1gb RAM to my previously 512mbyte lenovo (3000 N100) to stop the linux system from thrashing. all i run directly is firefox and drawterm. the system was fine at 512mbyte until a few weeks ago (when more updates arrived). i could probably have got by with `only' 256mbyte or 512mbyte more but the bigger memory card was hardly more expensive. Since we're on the subject of memory hogs: does anybody know a way for querying Linux or Solaris (or any OS for that matter) of what the *physical* pages correspond to and how many virtual pages (and in which processes) they map into. The only utility that comes close is memstat: http://www.fifi.org/cgi-bin/man2html/usr/share/man/man1/memstat.1.gz but I don't quite believe its output, since it relies on the second hand information available from /proc/*/map and a really awkward mapping process. Thanks, Roman.
Re: [9fans] Streaming on venti
It's part of the EFI promise: everything they touch will turn to merde :-) optimist! - erik
Re: [9fans] Laptop advice
3 buttons and a nipple not a touchpad no Windows key :) These are concrete assets. I know at least one other laptop user (I have an old Compac Presario 900, he has a newer Acer or some such) that manages to trigger the touchpad without touching it. Very, very annoying. As for the Windows key, on the limited keyboard real estate of a laptop, it is a serious waste. ++L
