Re: [9fans] Plan9 as an everyday OS
> Google -> "list of plan 9 applications" -> click "I'm Feeling Lucky" The result you will get from this is most likely to be extremely outdated and incomplete. Just saying... uriel 2009/7/10 Andrés Domínguez : > 2009/7/10 Lorenzo Bolla : >> Hi all, >> I've just installed (with few difficulties, I must admit) a fresh Plan9 on >> my Dell Inspiron laptop. >> I played with it and I'd really like to study it and get used to it. >> Ideally, I would like to make it my "everyday OS", to do all the nice stuff >> you can do with a computer (a part from work and study), like browsing the >> web, watching movies and so on... >> Is anyone using it for such things? >> Is there, for example, a decent browser for Plan9 (I haven't found any)? > > 8c > >> Or a music/movie player? > > 8c > > But the cold startup is a little bit slower than wmp or ie, have to > do some coding first. > > If you are looking for something done: > > Google -> "list of plan 9 applications" -> click "I'm Feeling Lucky" > > Probably you will be more happy with Linux, running Plan9 on > virtual machine. > > Andrés > >
Re: [9fans] Announcing: iosrv for persistent rc sessions and 9gridchan.org
On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 6:35 PM, Russ Cox wrote: > iosrv sounds neat. > > if you want a challenge, i would like to see the gui version, > something along the lines of inferno's drawmux, > which would be more work but also more broadly applicable. > http://www.vitanuova.com/inferno/man/2/drawmux.html > > russ > > Thanks very much for the suggestion - and that is exactly the direction I am planning to work in, following some needed improvements to the fundamental implementation. (iosrv needs to be rewritten to be its own 9p fs and not piggyback on exportfs, most importantly). Given the beauty of plan 9's data-agnostic approach, you can already do things like sending mouse data through an iosrv pipe and binding that pipe on top of /dev/mouse to control a remote graphical application. I have yet to study the issues in detail but thanks to the 'consistent, agressive application' of the clean file i/o abstraction throughout the Plan 9 system, I hope it will be possible to make iosrv able to multiplex and make persistent any and every application. A persistent, shared rio session is the goal, but no promises on the delivery time for that feature. One easy trick to make iosrv integrate better in its current form into the GUI layer is to allow the rc sessions hosted 'inside' the iosrv to import the /srv of the client machine, and then make use of the calling user's plumber and wsys on their original machine. I'm still working on exploring what exactly can be done with this thing! Iosrv can provide simple, basic functionality along the lines of gnu screen, but also offers the ability to create custom i/o Hub setups. As an example of doing more, here is a recipe for allowing your iosrv hosted shells to set up an independent shared communication channel between them. The starting assumption is that you have used the 'io' command as 'io iosession' to begin an iosrv, then connected multiple clients to it using 'io iosession' and those clients have created new rc subshells within the iosrv using the inside-the-ioshell commands such as 'local 3' and 'remote 6'. From within one of the attached shell sessions, issue commands to create new Hubs: hub h27s0 hub h27o0 hub h28s0 cat /n/iosession/H28in0/data & Now you have a persistent cat running between two new Hubs provided by iosrv. To turn that into something useful, in all the attached clients you will want to do: hub h28o(current hub attach # here) cat /n/iosession/H28out(attach #)/data1 & bind /n/iosession/H27in0 /n/chat echo 'hi everybody!' >/n/chat/data Now you can send messages between the shells by echoing messages to /n/chat/data and they will be printed to the other attached shells by their cat of the output pipe running in the background. When new clients connect and provide their own unique hub h28o# command, the cat of its output will give them the full backlog, buffered by the iosrv. I'm very interested in some feedback on the general idea of the Hub as an extension of the pipe - the idea is that a Hub has multiple simultaneous inputs and outputs and allows processes to connect and disconnect from it freely as it is running. I am a relative newcomer to the world of UNIX and I am interested in previous implementations of this type of functionality. I wonder if I have wandered into the territory of STREAMS which I confess I know by reputation only. Mycroftiv
Re: [9fans] Announcing: iosrv for persistent rc sessions and 9gridchan.org
On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 05:56:46PM -0500, mycroftiv 9gridchan wrote: > .. You were able to get anon's from /g/ to do something..useful? Good job. This does seem interesting though, I'll have to play with it sometime. -- Jake Todd // If it isn't broke, tweak it! pgprZ9sqQQhIk.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [9fans] Announcing: iosrv for persistent rc sessions and 9gridchan.org
iosrv sounds neat. if you want a challenge, i would like to see the gui version, something along the lines of inferno's drawmux, which would be more work but also more broadly applicable. http://www.vitanuova.com/inferno/man/2/drawmux.html russ
Re: [9fans] Plan9 as an everyday OS
There is a list of tested usb sound cards at http://www.plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/Supported_PC_hardware/index.html This could be added to the list (i have it): http://www.amazon.com/SteelSeries-Siberia-USB-Soundcard-White/dp/B000WJCM9G/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1247264255&sr=8-9 When i start it with 'usb/audio' i get Warning, can't configure stereo recording, configuring mono instead Warning, can't configure record for 44100 Hz, configuring for 48000 Hz instead term% usb/audio: read /dev/usb/ep11.3/data: babble detected and volume keys on it don't work, but my headset has an analog volume control. It works well for playback of mp3s at 44100 Hz, i haven't tried using it for anything else. On Jul 11, 2009, at 12:10 AM, j...@csplan9.rit.edu wrote: usb audio... havnt tried it with ac97 on my t23 yet. -- cinap Which model of USB audio? Is it something available on Amazon? I have a T22 laptop that I use for Plan 9 sometimes, and I believe that has ac97, but like you I haven't tried it. Also, I use other Plan 9 machines which could use an audio output. John
[9fans] Announcing: iosrv for persistent rc sessions and 9gridchan.org
Hello, 9fans! This is the first public announcement on 9fans of an ongoing open collaborative Plan 9 project offering software tools and resources for hobby-oriented gridding for Plan 9 and Inferno users. This announcement is timed to coincide with the arrivial of some new software on sources that is a celebration of UNIX pipes - iosrv, available via contrib/install mycroftiv/iosrv or mk install from the iosrv.tgz in contrib/mycroftiv. 'iosrv' brings much of the functionality of GNU screen to plan 9, but dispenses with the encumberance of emulating a TTY. Instead, iosrv delivers persistent rc sessions for multiple clients with multiplexing and buffering of data via pipe(3) files. The user creates and attaches to sessions available in /srv, using the 'io' wrapper script. Because iosrv provides sets of 'application agnostic' two way on-demand pipes, remote clients have the choice of spawning new shells on the remote iosrv host, or alternatively on their local machine - and locally spawned shells can be shared via iosrv back to the other remote clients of the iosrv host. All functionality is implemented using a simple abstraction called a Hub, which is an attempt to expand the traditional unix pipe | to have multiple inputs, multiple outputs, and the ability to connect and disconnect from the data stream dynamically. 'Iosrv' is the latest tool created by and for the 9gridchan.org open grid project - a volunteer run set of network nodes for Plan 9 resources of several kinds. There's also a website there. We provide: + ready to use customized qemu Plan 9 installed images (these can also be easily converted to vmware .vmdk disk images) + 'grid toolkits' for linux systems packaged with venti data for system images and plan9port binaries and scripts to create ready-to-use multi-system setups - p9p venti + qemu fossil server + qemu cpu server + drawterm terminal + directly usable plan 9 resources of several kinds, such as an Inferno hosted 9p service registry that interoperates with our g/toolkit of scripts - exact services and connection methods are always in a state of flux but most things are quite open and accessible + original software for ad-hoc gridding and resource sharing, such as iosrv and the gscripts toolkit. The code and design quality for our stuff can be a bit variable, but we do test and use it extensively ourselves. We are often available 'directly' in our plan 9 development environment. We strongly support the original vision of Plan 9 as a shared collaborative environment for programming and we like to do real-time experimentation and testing. In other words, we export a lot of our local resources publicly so interested people can connect to our live work environment. Iosrv was created specifically for this purpose, among others. Who the heck is 'we'? Well, much of this is the work of one person, a Plan 9 'amateur' in the literal meaning of the word. For the purposes of this posting, you can read 'we' as 'mycroftiv, 9gridchan.org domain admin and developer'. My name and identity are no secret, you can whois 9gridchan.org for my personal information if you are curious. If you happen to be nearby, feel me to contact me to visit the grid's physical plant. (Also known as some old computers in a basement.) I use the word 'we' to indicate that this project was conceived by a group of people who became interested in Plan 9, and I have been working on behalf of that loose federation of interested individuals. The cultural context of the project, as indicated by the '9gridchan' name, comes from the chan imageboards, known for their highly open nature (anyone can contribute content and participate) and dedication to free expression, satire, and humor. I am old enough to have great nostalgia for the personal computing era of the early 1980s (the local Apple ][ users group meetings were some of the high points of my young life, and my fingers were perpetually smudged with hobbyist-magazine ink from typing in BASIC source cod) and I have often missed the build-it-yourself spirit of that era. Finding Plan 9 has been one of the amazing experiences of my life (where had it been hiding the past decades!?) and although it may be a quixotic dream and vision, I want to try to work for a world where anyone and everyone is both importing and exporting an array of 9p services from their desktop, and gigantic exabyte Venti servers provide caching all along the internet backbone. Anyway, we've been at this for quite awhile now - it was about a year ago that this project got started. Along the way a lot of more experienced Plan 9 users have provided help and guidance. In particular the #plan9 irc channel on freenode.net has been invaluable - we hang out there, and also in the #plan9chan project channel. (Note that the #plan9chan project channel is very casual, sometimes off-topic, and tolerates all kinds of speech.) We also want to provide some statements of praise for all the people who have made Plan 9 so incredi
Re: [9fans] Plan9 as an everyday OS
On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 2:10 PM, wrote: > Which model of USB audio? Is it something available on Amazon? Looks like this might be the new version of the Turtle Beach Audio Advantage: http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Advantage-Micro-Sound-Card/dp/B0002ICGDY Hopefully it works as well. -Jack -- Forwarded message -- From: Sape Mullender Date: Wed, Jun 28, 2006 at 11:24 AM Subject: Re: [9fans] More USB audio To: knapj...@gmail.com, 9f...@cse.psu.edu Cc: j...@plan9.bell-labs.com, p...@plan9.bell-labs.com > http://www.turtlebeach.com/site/products/audioadvantage/ We got one ath the labs. Plugged it into Plan 9. It works. It actually outputs a lot of oomph into my headset. Nice device. 44100 or 48000 Hz, 16-bit stereo. Has mute & volume control. Sape
Re: [9fans] Plan9 as an everyday OS
EDIROL UA-1X http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.php?ProductId=635 needs some patching in the usbaudio driver because it contains a bogus descriptor i think. as i buyed some time ago it it worked out of the box with plan9. -- cinap --- Begin Message --- > usb audio... havnt tried it with ac97 on my t23 yet. > > -- > cinap Which model of USB audio? Is it something available on Amazon? I have a T22 laptop that I use for Plan 9 sometimes, and I believe that has ac97, but like you I haven't tried it. Also, I use other Plan 9 machines which could use an audio output. John --- End Message ---
Re: [9fans] Plan9 as an everyday OS
> usb audio... havnt tried it with ac97 on my t23 yet. > > -- > cinap Which model of USB audio? Is it something available on Amazon? I have a T22 laptop that I use for Plan 9 sometimes, and I believe that has ac97, but like you I haven't tried it. Also, I use other Plan 9 machines which could use an audio output. John
Re: [9fans] Plan9 as an everyday OS
usb audio... havnt tried it with ac97 on my t23 yet. -- cinap --- Begin Message --- > had no success with mplayer yet because of lacking mmx support. got ffmpeg to > compile (without mmx/sse) and play on linuxemu, but it was too slow on my 1 > ghz via machine. > > -- > cinap Whare are you using for an audio device on Plan 9? The AC97 driver? Or did you buy a USB audio thing? John --- End Message ---
Re: [9fans] Plan9 as an everyday OS
"Much anger there is in him. Too much pride in his powers." Jason Catena
Re: [9fans] Plan9 as an everyday OS
> had no success with mplayer yet because of lacking mmx support. got ffmpeg to > compile (without mmx/sse) and play on linuxemu, but it was too slow on my 1 > ghz via machine. > > -- > cinap Whare are you using for an audio device on Plan 9? The AC97 driver? Or did you buy a USB audio thing? John
Re: [9fans] Plan9 as an everyday OS
had no success with mplayer yet because of lacking mmx support. got ffmpeg to compile (without mmx/sse) and play on linuxemu, but it was too slow on my 1 ghz via machine. -- cinap --- Begin Message --- On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 17:05:13 +0100 Lorenzo Bolla wrote: > Hi all, > I've just installed (with few difficulties, I must admit) a fresh Plan9 on > my Dell Inspiron laptop. > I played with it and I'd really like to study it and get used to it. > Ideally, I would like to make it my "everyday OS", to do all the nice stuff > you can do with a computer (a part from work and study), like browsing the > web, watching movies and so on... > Is anyone using it for such things? > Is there, for example, a decent browser for Plan9 (I haven't found any)? > Or a music/movie player? There is no "decent" browser for Plan 9 as such by many peoples' standards. The big problem here is that the Plan 9 community by and large really appreciates sane design, and it seems to be quite impossible to write a browser conforming to w3c standards without putting a lot of very very crazy code in it. *Howevah* there is Linuxemu. You can run Firefox under Linuxemu in Plan 9. You may be able to run mplayer or xine-whatever that way too, but some of Plan 9's display drivers may be too slow, you'd have to try it and see. Linuxemu is in rsc's contrib... 9fs sources && cd /n/sources/contrib/rsc/linuxemu ... then I guess cat README & go from there. I couldn't tell you how to install it since I've never done it. What works for me is rather the other way around. I run Linux (64bit, for a machine with 4GB of RAM), and run Plan 9 in Qemu. It works nicely, although it was a bit of hassle setting up. Some people do this & use the plumber to communicate with the plan9port plumber running on the Linux side, it all sounds a lot of fun but I haven't got that far yet. :) Have fun with it, anyhow. :) -- Ethan Grammatikidis Those who are slower at parsing information must necessarily be faster at problem-solving.--- End Message ---
Re: [9fans] Plan9 as an everyday OS
On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 5:35 PM, Devon H. O'Dell wrote: > 2009/7/10 J.R. Mauro : >> On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 1:46 PM, wrote: >>> >>> I'm tired of the perpetual September, after several years of being >>> polite and pointing people to the wiki and the archives. >> >> You could filter instead of bitching and contributing to the noise. > > Spoken like a true hypocrite ;) Oh, no, I carefully just said `you'. I intend to not filter, bitch, contribute to noise, and possibly other horrible things. Like spam the list with your picture of the sexy plumber. > > --dho > >
Re: [9fans] Plan9 as an everyday OS
2009/7/10 J.R. Mauro : > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 1:46 PM, wrote: >> >> I'm tired of the perpetual September, after several years of being >> polite and pointing people to the wiki and the archives. > > You could filter instead of bitching and contributing to the noise. Spoken like a true hypocrite ;) --dho
Re: [9fans] Plan9 as an everyday OS
On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 1:46 PM, wrote: > > I'm tired of the perpetual September, after several years of being > polite and pointing people to the wiki and the archives. You could filter instead of bitching and contributing to the noise. > > Even Ghandi would have eventually gotten sick of people asking, "So, > hey, what's up with this thing you're doing here, and how are the > British involved?" > > Resuming operation as a human Google proxy in 3... 2... 1... > > I use Plan 9 as my desktop for development. I keep a Linux laptop > beside the desktop for running a browser, although I've been fiddling > with linuxemu so I can potentially use just the Plan 9 box. When I'm > at home, I use a Linux box for watching movies and everything else, > although I could do basically everything except web browsing and movie > watching from within Plan 9 there too. > > It's really a pretty good time to start using Plan 9, if you're > willing to put in a little work. fgb's contrib(1) scripts make it > easy to install software, some of which is very useful in migrating > from Linux or interoperating with Linux; I'm using openssh on a daily > basis, I've been using X11 as I experiment with linuxemu, and I just > installed TeX which I'll probably try next time I have to write a > paper. It also feels like the number of users is growing, despite my > increasingly curmudgeonly sentiments (durn kids git orf mah lawn). > We're also gaining recognition in the general OS world and especially > in supercomputing, thanks to the FastOS work. > > I probably said a lot of this last time somebody posted one of these > threads. I'll probably say it again the next time. > > > > > John > >> Thanks for saying what I didn't have the words to say. May I quote you >> forever? >> -joe >> >> On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 1:07 PM, Noah Evans wrote: >> >>> There's nothing wrong with being new. There's nothing wrong with being >>> polite either. >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> >>> On Jul 10, 2009, at 6:52 PM, John Floren wrote: >>> >>> At least once a month it happens. We can't escape. We're forever doomed to get a "Can I use Plan 9 as my desktop OS for web browsing and watching movies and stuff?" thread every couple weeks, because people are only willing to spend jst enough effort to find the Plan 9 web page and subscribe to 9fans. John On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 9:30 AM, André Günther wrote: > there's a thing called mailing list archives. > and you know..heh..there's this funny thing..dunno, it's called google or > something. > what you do is: type some words and then hit return...and wooha it > searches > like the whole web. it's magic. > > On Jul 10, 2009, at 6:05 PM, Lorenzo Bolla wrote: > > Hi all, >> I've just installed (with few difficulties, I must admit) a fresh Plan9 >> on >> my Dell Inspiron laptop. >> I played with it and I'd really like to study it and get used to it. >> Ideally, I would like to make it my "everyday OS", to do all the nice >> stuff you can do with a computer (a part from work and study), like >> browsing >> the web, watching movies and so on... >> Is anyone using it for such things? >> Is there, for example, a decent browser for Plan9 (I haven't found any)? >> Or a music/movie player? >> >> Thanks in advance, >> Lorenzo. >> > > > > -- "I've tried programming Ruby on Rails, following TechCrunch in my RSS reader, and drinking absinthe. It doesn't work. I'm going back to C, Hunter S. Thompson, and cheap whiskey." -- Ted Dziuba >>> > > >
Re: [9fans] Plan9 as an everyday OS
"And the King shall answer and say to them, Truly I say to you, Inasmuch as you have done it to one of the least of these my brothers, you have done it to me." On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 1:44 PM, Noah Evans wrote: > Heh.. go ahead. > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 7:27 PM, Joseph Stewart > wrote: > > Thanks for saying what I didn't have the words to say. May I quote you > > forever? > > -joe > > > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 1:07 PM, Noah Evans > wrote: > >> > >> There's nothing wrong with being new. There's nothing wrong with being > >> polite either. > >> > >> Sent from my iPhone > >> > >> On Jul 10, 2009, at 6:52 PM, John Floren wrote: > >> > >>> At least once a month it happens. We can't escape. We're forever > >>> doomed to get a "Can I use Plan 9 as my desktop OS for web browsing > >>> and watching movies and stuff?" thread every couple weeks, because > >>> people are only willing to spend jst enough effort to find the > >>> Plan 9 web page and subscribe to 9fans. > >>> > >>> > >>> John > >>> > >>> On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 9:30 AM, André Günther wrote: > > there's a thing called mailing list archives. > and you know..heh..there's this funny thing..dunno, it's called google > or > something. > what you do is: type some words and then hit return...and wooha it > searches > like the whole web. it's magic. > > On Jul 10, 2009, at 6:05 PM, Lorenzo Bolla wrote: > > > Hi all, > > I've just installed (with few difficulties, I must admit) a fresh > Plan9 > > on > > my Dell Inspiron laptop. > > I played with it and I'd really like to study it and get used to it. > > Ideally, I would like to make it my "everyday OS", to do all the nice > > stuff you can do with a computer (a part from work and study), like > > browsing > > the web, watching movies and so on... > > Is anyone using it for such things? > > Is there, for example, a decent browser for Plan9 (I haven't found > > any)? > > Or a music/movie player? > > > > Thanks in advance, > > Lorenzo. > > > > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> "I've tried programming Ruby on Rails, following TechCrunch in my RSS > >>> reader, and drinking absinthe. It doesn't work. I'm going back to C, > >>> Hunter S. Thompson, and cheap whiskey." -- Ted Dziuba > >>> > >> > > > > > >
Re: [9fans] Plan9 as an everyday OS
Heh.. go ahead. On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 7:27 PM, Joseph Stewart wrote: > Thanks for saying what I didn't have the words to say. May I quote you > forever? > -joe > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 1:07 PM, Noah Evans wrote: >> >> There's nothing wrong with being new. There's nothing wrong with being >> polite either. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On Jul 10, 2009, at 6:52 PM, John Floren wrote: >> >>> At least once a month it happens. We can't escape. We're forever >>> doomed to get a "Can I use Plan 9 as my desktop OS for web browsing >>> and watching movies and stuff?" thread every couple weeks, because >>> people are only willing to spend jst enough effort to find the >>> Plan 9 web page and subscribe to 9fans. >>> >>> >>> John >>> >>> On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 9:30 AM, André Günther wrote: there's a thing called mailing list archives. and you know..heh..there's this funny thing..dunno, it's called google or something. what you do is: type some words and then hit return...and wooha it searches like the whole web. it's magic. On Jul 10, 2009, at 6:05 PM, Lorenzo Bolla wrote: > Hi all, > I've just installed (with few difficulties, I must admit) a fresh Plan9 > on > my Dell Inspiron laptop. > I played with it and I'd really like to study it and get used to it. > Ideally, I would like to make it my "everyday OS", to do all the nice > stuff you can do with a computer (a part from work and study), like > browsing > the web, watching movies and so on... > Is anyone using it for such things? > Is there, for example, a decent browser for Plan9 (I haven't found > any)? > Or a music/movie player? > > Thanks in advance, > Lorenzo. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> "I've tried programming Ruby on Rails, following TechCrunch in my RSS >>> reader, and drinking absinthe. It doesn't work. I'm going back to C, >>> Hunter S. Thompson, and cheap whiskey." -- Ted Dziuba >>> >> > >
Re: [9fans] plan 9 interface color ergonomy
On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 10:31:18 -0800 Jack Johnson wrote: > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 10:01 AM, Jason Catena wrote: > > Rob explains the fonts and colors (inspired by Tufte, no less) a bit > > in this reposted message, and mentions Renee French. > > I wonder if Renee would be interested to know this particular color > palette is an ongoing point of discussion? I wonder too! The reasoning sounded sensible, but unfortunately I find I can't stand looking at green on the computer screen for long, and living in south-east England I wonder what all that about nature and pale colours was all about. :) The only pale colours on the South Downs are the haze-blued hills of the North Downs in the far distance, and the sky when it's overcast. The middle and foreground are occupied by very strong greens, except for some fields near harvest time which are likely to be other strong colours. Curiously I like looking at those green hills much better than anything green on my computer screen, even pictures of the same. I can't account for that. I made the active window border in rio a faded lavender while the background is a very very faded lavender. The 2 colours are somewhat reminiscant of the haze-obscured distant hills, but the window border is more reminiscent of one particular crop which flowers blue. I never got as far as patching the menus and scrollbars to match. They don't quite go but I don't mind, they're not on the screen for long. -- Ethan Grammatikidis Those who are slower at parsing information must necessarily be faster at problem-solving.
Re: [9fans] Google finally announces their lightweight OS
> The J "dialect" of APL (http://www.jsoftware.com, essentially the > continuation of Ken Iverson's development efforts after APL) is a great tool > for thinking about generalised operations on vectors, matrices, cubes, etc. There's a Plan 9 port of J 3.02 in /n/sources/contrib/miller/j/8.j 386 executable only, as I don't have permission to share source, but I can compile for other $objtypes on request.
Re: [9fans] Google finally announces their lightweight OS
On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 08:14:30 EDT erik quanstrom wrote:
> > there has also been a lot of discussion in the past 1-2 months about
> > K, a successor to APL, in #plan9. you might ask there; i may have
> > missed a more recent development.
>
> could someone please explain to the ignorant, what
> is interesting about apl? the last surge of interest i
> recall in the language was in 1983. ibm offered an
> rom for the mga (monochrome graphics adapter)
> that substituted the odd apl characters for the
> equally-odd pc character set's bucky-bit characters.
Ken Iverson's 1979 Turing Award lecture, "Notation as a Toool
of thought" is a good place to start. Htmlized version at
http://www.jsoftware.com/papers/tot.htm
Google for p444-iverson.pdf for the original.
If you watched the Game of Life in APL video I pointed to,
you saw how the presenter develops the program. This is very
much like how one builds up a shell pipeline (both are
loopless as there are a lot of similarities between streams
and arrays).
APL and its successor languages such as j/k/q are not just
for number crunching. I mostly use k or q for scripting.
Here is a quick example of piecewise development in q. A
year ago I wanted a simple inverted index program so this is
what I implemented.
I first created a sample table "dt" where each row contains a
document id and a term.
q)dt
d1 t1
d1 t2
d2 t1
d2 t3
d3 t1
d3 t2
d3 t3
Then dt[;0] is the doc-id column, dt[;1] is the term column.
The following gives me row indices that have the same terms.
q)group dt[;1]
t1| 0 2 4 /t1 appears in rows 0 2 and 4
t2| 1 5 /etc
t3| 3 6
What I really want is doc-ids with the same term.
q) dt[;0] @ group dt[;1]
t1| `d1`d2`d3
t2| `d1`d3
t3| `d2`d3
Given this associative table I can find out which documents
contain t2. I first name the table idx.
q) idx: dt[;0] @ group dt[;1]
q) idx[`t2]
d1 d3
Now I have the data in the form I want and can implement
fancier things on top. But how do I get the data in? If I
have a file foo where each line contains a space separated
doc-id and term, I can initialize dt from it.
q)dt:("SS";" ")0:`:foo
Code to read a bunch of files and create lines of not shown. This was fast enough for a few tens of MB
of data I was interested in.
See code.kx.com for syntax etc. It has a wealth of
information on Q including tutorials. You can download a
copy for your own use.
[Note that there is another Q language, an equational
language. UNlike this Q it is open source but not an array
language]
Re: [9fans] plan 9 interface color ergonomy
Thanks for the pointer(s)! The extra information, compared to what I previously read, is Edward Tufte. I do think Plan 9 colors choices are right. In french, "travail" (work) is derived from a word meaning pain, torture. That's perhaps why a "professional" computer interface is one that gives you pain, since it must be work... -- Thierry Laronde (Alceste) http://www.kergis.com/ Key fingerprint = 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89 250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C
Re: [9fans] plan 9 interface color ergonomy
On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 10:01 AM, Jason Catena wrote: > Rob explains the fonts and colors (inspired by Tufte, no less) a bit > in this reposted message, and mentions Renee French. I wonder if Renee would be interested to know this particular color palette is an ongoing point of discussion? -Jack
Re: [9fans] plan 9 interface color ergonomy
> I seem to recall reading a paper by Rob Pike about discussions, I think > with Ren�e French, about this visual aspect. But I don't manage to find > back which one it was, and if there are other ones about this ergonomy. > > Has somebody hints? Maybe you mean this? http://9fans.net/archive/2003/09/442
Re: [9fans] plan 9 interface color ergonomy
Rob explains the fonts and colors (inspired by Tufte, no less) a bit in this reposted message, and mentions Renee French. http://www.mail-archive.com/9f...@cse.psu.edu/msg13035.html Jason Catena
Re: [9fans] Plan9 as an everyday OS
Didn't your mother tell you saying nothing is better than saying something rude? :-) I've learned this new thing in the past few years. It's hard, I know...
Re: [9fans] Plan9 as an everyday OS
> Apologies, the up-to-date linuxemu is in cinap's contrib: > /n/sources/contrib/cinap_lenrek/linuxemu3/ > and > /n/sources/contrib/cinap_lenrek/linuxemu3.tgz > Having just set up Linuxemu, a quick note: The distributed root filesystem is rather old; it uses the sarge distribution of debian. It's old enough, in fact, that you'll need to change /etc/apt/sources.list if you want to download any software; archive.debian.org still serves sarge, so my file looks like: deb http://archive.debian.org/debian sarge main I exchanged some emails with cinap yesterday; it seems that the reason he still uses sarge for linuxemu is that newer versions are incompatible with linuxemu as it stands, and sarge runs effectively enough. John
Re: [9fans] Plan9 as an everyday OS
I'm tired of the perpetual September, after several years of being polite and pointing people to the wiki and the archives. Even Ghandi would have eventually gotten sick of people asking, "So, hey, what's up with this thing you're doing here, and how are the British involved?" Resuming operation as a human Google proxy in 3... 2... 1... I use Plan 9 as my desktop for development. I keep a Linux laptop beside the desktop for running a browser, although I've been fiddling with linuxemu so I can potentially use just the Plan 9 box. When I'm at home, I use a Linux box for watching movies and everything else, although I could do basically everything except web browsing and movie watching from within Plan 9 there too. It's really a pretty good time to start using Plan 9, if you're willing to put in a little work. fgb's contrib(1) scripts make it easy to install software, some of which is very useful in migrating from Linux or interoperating with Linux; I'm using openssh on a daily basis, I've been using X11 as I experiment with linuxemu, and I just installed TeX which I'll probably try next time I have to write a paper. It also feels like the number of users is growing, despite my increasingly curmudgeonly sentiments (durn kids git orf mah lawn). We're also gaining recognition in the general OS world and especially in supercomputing, thanks to the FastOS work. I probably said a lot of this last time somebody posted one of these threads. I'll probably say it again the next time. John > Thanks for saying what I didn't have the words to say. May I quote you > forever? > -joe > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 1:07 PM, Noah Evans wrote: > >> There's nothing wrong with being new. There's nothing wrong with being >> polite either. >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> >> On Jul 10, 2009, at 6:52 PM, John Floren wrote: >> >> At least once a month it happens. We can't escape. We're forever >>> doomed to get a "Can I use Plan 9 as my desktop OS for web browsing >>> and watching movies and stuff?" thread every couple weeks, because >>> people are only willing to spend jst enough effort to find the >>> Plan 9 web page and subscribe to 9fans. >>> >>> >>> John >>> >>> On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 9:30 AM, André Günther wrote: >>> there's a thing called mailing list archives. and you know..heh..there's this funny thing..dunno, it's called google or something. what you do is: type some words and then hit return...and wooha it searches like the whole web. it's magic. On Jul 10, 2009, at 6:05 PM, Lorenzo Bolla wrote: Hi all, > I've just installed (with few difficulties, I must admit) a fresh Plan9 > on > my Dell Inspiron laptop. > I played with it and I'd really like to study it and get used to it. > Ideally, I would like to make it my "everyday OS", to do all the nice > stuff you can do with a computer (a part from work and study), like > browsing > the web, watching movies and so on... > Is anyone using it for such things? > Is there, for example, a decent browser for Plan9 (I haven't found any)? > Or a music/movie player? > > Thanks in advance, > Lorenzo. > >>> >>> >>> -- >>> "I've tried programming Ruby on Rails, following TechCrunch in my RSS >>> reader, and drinking absinthe. It doesn't work. I'm going back to C, >>> Hunter S. Thompson, and cheap whiskey." -- Ted Dziuba >>> >>> >>
Re: [9fans] Plan9 as an everyday OS
On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 18:25:55 +0100 Ethan Grammatikidis wrote: > On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 17:05:13 +0100 > Lorenzo Bolla wrote: > > > Hi all, > > I've just installed (with few difficulties, I must admit) a fresh Plan9 on > > my Dell Inspiron laptop. > > I played with it and I'd really like to study it and get used to it. > > Ideally, I would like to make it my "everyday OS", to do all the nice stuff > > you can do with a computer (a part from work and study), like browsing the > > web, watching movies and so on... > > Is anyone using it for such things? > > Is there, for example, a decent browser for Plan9 (I haven't found any)? > > Or a music/movie player? > > There is no "decent" browser for Plan 9 as such by many peoples' standards. > The big problem here is that the Plan 9 community by and large really > appreciates sane design, and it seems to be quite impossible to write a > browser conforming to w3c standards without putting a lot of very very crazy > code in it. > > *Howevah* there is Linuxemu. You can run Firefox under Linuxemu in Plan 9. > You may be able to run mplayer or xine-whatever that way too, but some of > Plan 9's display drivers may be too slow, you'd have to try it and see. > Linuxemu is in rsc's contrib... 9fs sources && cd > /n/sources/contrib/rsc/linuxemu ... then I guess cat README & go from there. > I couldn't tell you how to install it since I've never done it. Apologies, the up-to-date linuxemu is in cinap's contrib: /n/sources/contrib/cinap_lenrek/linuxemu3/ and /n/sources/contrib/cinap_lenrek/linuxemu3.tgz > > What works for me is rather the other way around. I run Linux (64bit, for a > machine with 4GB of RAM), and run Plan 9 in Qemu. It works nicely, although > it was a bit of hassle setting up. Some people do this & use the plumber to > communicate with the plan9port plumber running on the Linux side, it all > sounds a lot of fun but I haven't got that far yet. :) > > Have fun with it, anyhow. :) > > -- > Ethan Grammatikidis > > Those who are slower at parsing information must > necessarily be faster at problem-solving. > -- Ethan Grammatikidis Those who are slower at parsing information must necessarily be faster at problem-solving.
Re: [9fans] Keyboard and Mouse
Thanx a lot! That works. And where a newbie can find information like that. Some known bugs and etc? 2009/7/10 erik quanstrom : >> > This problem is well known, and seems to be >> > caused by HyperThreading on some CPU. >> > >> > Try to add the following line to "plan9.ini": >> > *nomp=1 >> > >> > It will solve this problem. >> >> hyperthreading? that doesn't sound right. >> >> do you mean a bad mp interrupt table? > > you can avoid ht by setting *ncpu=1 in your > plan9.ini without disabling mp interrupts. > so it should be easy to say definitivly which > one causes the problem. > > as a further explainer, 8259 interrupts can't > work in an mp environment. you need to > use either mp interrupts or msi interrupts. > since plan 9 doesn't implement msi, *nomp=1 > implies that only one cpu may be activated. > so a uniprocessor may still use mp interrupts. > > - erik > > -- SareLius
Re: [9fans] Plan9 as an everyday OS
Plan9 is more like a programming platform, some call it a research OS. How did you get interested in this?
Re: [9fans] Plan9 as an everyday OS
Thanks for saying what I didn't have the words to say. May I quote you forever? -joe On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 1:07 PM, Noah Evans wrote: > There's nothing wrong with being new. There's nothing wrong with being > polite either. > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Jul 10, 2009, at 6:52 PM, John Floren wrote: > > At least once a month it happens. We can't escape. We're forever >> doomed to get a "Can I use Plan 9 as my desktop OS for web browsing >> and watching movies and stuff?" thread every couple weeks, because >> people are only willing to spend jst enough effort to find the >> Plan 9 web page and subscribe to 9fans. >> >> >> John >> >> On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 9:30 AM, André Günther wrote: >> >>> there's a thing called mailing list archives. >>> and you know..heh..there's this funny thing..dunno, it's called google or >>> something. >>> what you do is: type some words and then hit return...and wooha it >>> searches >>> like the whole web. it's magic. >>> >>> On Jul 10, 2009, at 6:05 PM, Lorenzo Bolla wrote: >>> >>> Hi all, I've just installed (with few difficulties, I must admit) a fresh Plan9 on my Dell Inspiron laptop. I played with it and I'd really like to study it and get used to it. Ideally, I would like to make it my "everyday OS", to do all the nice stuff you can do with a computer (a part from work and study), like browsing the web, watching movies and so on... Is anyone using it for such things? Is there, for example, a decent browser for Plan9 (I haven't found any)? Or a music/movie player? Thanks in advance, Lorenzo. >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> "I've tried programming Ruby on Rails, following TechCrunch in my RSS >> reader, and drinking absinthe. It doesn't work. I'm going back to C, >> Hunter S. Thompson, and cheap whiskey." -- Ted Dziuba >> >> >
Re: [9fans] Plan9 as an everyday OS
On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 09:52:38 -0700 John Floren wrote: > At least once a month it happens. We can't escape. We're forever > doomed to get a "Can I use Plan 9 as my desktop OS for web browsing > and watching movies and stuff?" thread every couple weeks, because > people are only willing to spend jst enough effort to find the > Plan 9 web page and subscribe to 9fans. I wish you people would shut up and point them at linuxemu or virtualisation ideas. :p You have to make the transition somehow. > > > John > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 9:30 AM, André Günther wrote: > > there's a thing called mailing list archives. > > and you know..heh..there's this funny thing..dunno, it's called google or > > something. > > what you do is: type some words and then hit return...and wooha it searches > > like the whole web. it's magic. > > > > On Jul 10, 2009, at 6:05 PM, Lorenzo Bolla wrote: > > > >> Hi all, > >> I've just installed (with few difficulties, I must admit) a fresh Plan9 on > >> my Dell Inspiron laptop. > >> I played with it and I'd really like to study it and get used to it. > >> Ideally, I would like to make it my "everyday OS", to do all the nice > >> stuff you can do with a computer (a part from work and study), like > >> browsing > >> the web, watching movies and so on... > >> Is anyone using it for such things? > >> Is there, for example, a decent browser for Plan9 (I haven't found any)? > >> Or a music/movie player? > >> > >> Thanks in advance, > >> Lorenzo. > > > > > > > > > > -- > "I've tried programming Ruby on Rails, following TechCrunch in my RSS > reader, and drinking absinthe. It doesn't work. I'm going back to C, > Hunter S. Thompson, and cheap whiskey." -- Ted Dziuba > -- Ethan Grammatikidis Those who are slower at parsing information must necessarily be faster at problem-solving.
Re: [9fans] Plan9 as an everyday OS
On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 8:05 AM, Lorenzo Bolla wrote: > Is anyone using it for such things? Some of us either do different things day-to-day or have found workarounds or alternatives to the way people usually enjoy the Internet and their attached computers. Without (or until) a change of mindset, it's likely that the easiest way to keep one foot on land and the other in the pool is to run Plan 9 in a virtual machine or to run plan9port on top of your regular OS. Best of luck, -Jack
Re: [9fans] Plan9 as an everyday OS
Noah++
Re: [9fans] Plan9 as an everyday OS
2009/7/10 Lorenzo Bolla : > Hi all, > I've just installed (with few difficulties, I must admit) a fresh Plan9 on > my Dell Inspiron laptop. > I played with it and I'd really like to study it and get used to it. > Ideally, I would like to make it my "everyday OS", to do all the nice stuff > you can do with a computer (a part from work and study), like browsing the > web, watching movies and so on... > Is anyone using it for such things? > Is there, for example, a decent browser for Plan9 (I haven't found any)? 8c > Or a music/movie player? 8c But the cold startup is a little bit slower than wmp or ie, have to do some coding first. If you are looking for something done: Google -> "list of plan 9 applications" -> click "I'm Feeling Lucky" Probably you will be more happy with Linux, running Plan9 on virtual machine. Andrés
Re: [9fans] Plan9 as an everyday OS
On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 17:05:13 +0100 Lorenzo Bolla wrote: > Hi all, > I've just installed (with few difficulties, I must admit) a fresh Plan9 on > my Dell Inspiron laptop. > I played with it and I'd really like to study it and get used to it. > Ideally, I would like to make it my "everyday OS", to do all the nice stuff > you can do with a computer (a part from work and study), like browsing the > web, watching movies and so on... > Is anyone using it for such things? > Is there, for example, a decent browser for Plan9 (I haven't found any)? > Or a music/movie player? There is no "decent" browser for Plan 9 as such by many peoples' standards. The big problem here is that the Plan 9 community by and large really appreciates sane design, and it seems to be quite impossible to write a browser conforming to w3c standards without putting a lot of very very crazy code in it. *Howevah* there is Linuxemu. You can run Firefox under Linuxemu in Plan 9. You may be able to run mplayer or xine-whatever that way too, but some of Plan 9's display drivers may be too slow, you'd have to try it and see. Linuxemu is in rsc's contrib... 9fs sources && cd /n/sources/contrib/rsc/linuxemu ... then I guess cat README & go from there. I couldn't tell you how to install it since I've never done it. What works for me is rather the other way around. I run Linux (64bit, for a machine with 4GB of RAM), and run Plan 9 in Qemu. It works nicely, although it was a bit of hassle setting up. Some people do this & use the plumber to communicate with the plan9port plumber running on the Linux side, it all sounds a lot of fun but I haven't got that far yet. :) Have fun with it, anyhow. :) -- Ethan Grammatikidis Those who are slower at parsing information must necessarily be faster at problem-solving.
Re: [9fans] Plan9 as an everyday OS
There's nothing wrong with being new. There's nothing wrong with being polite either. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 10, 2009, at 6:52 PM, John Floren wrote: At least once a month it happens. We can't escape. We're forever doomed to get a "Can I use Plan 9 as my desktop OS for web browsing and watching movies and stuff?" thread every couple weeks, because people are only willing to spend jst enough effort to find the Plan 9 web page and subscribe to 9fans. John On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 9:30 AM, André Günther wrot e: there's a thing called mailing list archives. and you know..heh..there's this funny thing..dunno, it's called google or something. what you do is: type some words and then hit return...and wooha it searches like the whole web. it's magic. On Jul 10, 2009, at 6:05 PM, Lorenzo Bolla wrote: Hi all, I've just installed (with few difficulties, I must admit) a fresh Plan9 on my Dell Inspiron laptop. I played with it and I'd really like to study it and get used to it. Ideally, I would like to make it my "everyday OS", to do all the nice stuff you can do with a computer (a part from work and study), like browsing the web, watching movies and so on... Is anyone using it for such things? Is there, for example, a decent browser for Plan9 (I haven't found any)? Or a music/movie player? Thanks in advance, Lorenzo. -- "I've tried programming Ruby on Rails, following TechCrunch in my RSS reader, and drinking absinthe. It doesn't work. I'm going back to C, Hunter S. Thompson, and cheap whiskey." -- Ted Dziuba
Re: [9fans] Google finally announces their lightweight OS
On Fri, 10 Jul 2009 13:52:35 +0100 Robert Raschke wrote: > On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 1:14 PM, erik quanstrom wrote: > > > > there has also been a lot of discussion in the past 1-2 months about > > > K, a successor to APL, in #plan9. you might ask there; i may have > > > missed a more recent development. > > > > could someone please explain to the ignorant, what > > is interesting about apl? the last surge of interest i > > recall in the language was in 1983. ibm offered an > > rom for the mga (monochrome graphics adapter) > > that substituted the odd apl characters for the > > equally-odd pc character set's bucky-bit characters. > > > > - erik > > > > > Don't view it as a programming language, view it as an executable > mathematical notation instead. And as such notations go, it is very > rigorous; but also a bit esoteric when you come at it from a programming > background. > > The J "dialect" of APL (http://www.jsoftware.com, essentially the > continuation of Ken Iverson's development efforts after APL) is a great tool > for thinking about generalised operations on vectors, matrices, cubes, etc. > There's a great self-published book on graphics and image processing called > "Fractals Visualization and J" by Cliff Reiter. > > The learning curve is very steep (unless you've never programmed and are > used to lots of math). And there is a tendency of adherents to strive for > the shortest possible expression(s) to solve a problem. That means it all > looks a bit opaque from the outside. But it is possible to write J code that > is elegant and easy to understand, even if you come back to it after some > time. I took a look at Q recently. The ancestry of Q is APL -> K -> Q but then there's a disjunction, the open-source Q being written and maintained by a different person with no reference to the Ken chap who authored K. I think the open-source Q is an independant implementation & not this Ken's implementation of Q, but it's possible Ken didn't create Q at all. I'm a little hazy on that detail. The difference between K & Q is primarily that K uses single letters and various other ascii characters where Q uses words, making the learning curve for Q slightly shallower. The open-source Q has also been unmaintained for the last 2 years or so. (It fails to work correctly in 64-bit Linux.) Development has moven on to Pure, which delightully is implemented as a front-end to LLVM, that new compiler collection that's written in C++. Q is at any rate easy to compile & works correctly on 32-bit Linux, as far as I can tell. The core package of Q is very light on it's dependencies too. Q seems pretty easy to learn if you can wrap your head around the idea of writing in quasi-mathematical abstractions, which is the part I'm struggling with. I'm sticking with procedural for now. -- Ethan Grammatikidis Those who are slower at parsing information must necessarily be faster at problem-solving.
[9fans] standard kernel e820 scan
does anyone know why the e820 scan in memory.c marks memory that does not appear in the map as available? i would think it would be safer to mark it as unavailable. but perhaps i just haven't found the right documents? - erik
Re: [9fans] Plan9 as an everyday OS
At least once a month it happens. We can't escape. We're forever doomed to get a "Can I use Plan 9 as my desktop OS for web browsing and watching movies and stuff?" thread every couple weeks, because people are only willing to spend jst enough effort to find the Plan 9 web page and subscribe to 9fans. John On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 9:30 AM, André Günther wrote: > there's a thing called mailing list archives. > and you know..heh..there's this funny thing..dunno, it's called google or > something. > what you do is: type some words and then hit return...and wooha it searches > like the whole web. it's magic. > > On Jul 10, 2009, at 6:05 PM, Lorenzo Bolla wrote: > >> Hi all, >> I've just installed (with few difficulties, I must admit) a fresh Plan9 on >> my Dell Inspiron laptop. >> I played with it and I'd really like to study it and get used to it. >> Ideally, I would like to make it my "everyday OS", to do all the nice >> stuff you can do with a computer (a part from work and study), like browsing >> the web, watching movies and so on... >> Is anyone using it for such things? >> Is there, for example, a decent browser for Plan9 (I haven't found any)? >> Or a music/movie player? >> >> Thanks in advance, >> Lorenzo. > > > -- "I've tried programming Ruby on Rails, following TechCrunch in my RSS reader, and drinking absinthe. It doesn't work. I'm going back to C, Hunter S. Thompson, and cheap whiskey." -- Ted Dziuba
Re: [9fans] Plan9 as an everyday OS
Lorenzo Bolla wrote: Hi all, I've just installed (with few difficulties, I must admit) a fresh Plan9 on my Dell Inspiron laptop. I played with it and I'd really like to study it and get used to it. Ideally, I would like to make it my "everyday OS", to do all the nice stuff you can do with a computer (a part from work and study), like browsing the web, watching movies and so on... Me too, good luck with that !
Re: [9fans] restricted remote address
I have the same problem. Yesterday I changed my ISP, and the problem immediately appeared... Pavel
Re: [9fans] Plan9 as an everyday OS
there's a thing called mailing list archives. and you know..heh..there's this funny thing..dunno, it's called google or something. what you do is: type some words and then hit return...and wooha it searches like the whole web. it's magic. On Jul 10, 2009, at 6:05 PM, Lorenzo Bolla wrote: Hi all, I've just installed (with few difficulties, I must admit) a fresh Plan9 on my Dell Inspiron laptop. I played with it and I'd really like to study it and get used to it. Ideally, I would like to make it my "everyday OS", to do all the nice stuff you can do with a computer (a part from work and study), like browsing the web, watching movies and so on... Is anyone using it for such things? Is there, for example, a decent browser for Plan9 (I haven't found any)? Or a music/movie player? Thanks in advance, Lorenzo.
[9fans] Plan9 as an everyday OS
Hi all, I've just installed (with few difficulties, I must admit) a fresh Plan9 on my Dell Inspiron laptop. I played with it and I'd really like to study it and get used to it. Ideally, I would like to make it my "everyday OS", to do all the nice stuff you can do with a computer (a part from work and study), like browsing the web, watching movies and so on... Is anyone using it for such things? Is there, for example, a decent browser for Plan9 (I haven't found any)? Or a music/movie player? Thanks in advance, Lorenzo.
Re: [9fans] Keyboard and Mouse
> > This problem is well known, and seems to be > > caused by HyperThreading on some CPU. > > > > Try to add the following line to "plan9.ini": > > *nomp=1 > > > > It will solve this problem. > > hyperthreading? that doesn't sound right. > > do you mean a bad mp interrupt table? you can avoid ht by setting *ncpu=1 in your plan9.ini without disabling mp interrupts. so it should be easy to say definitivly which one causes the problem. as a further explainer, 8259 interrupts can't work in an mp environment. you need to use either mp interrupts or msi interrupts. since plan 9 doesn't implement msi, *nomp=1 implies that only one cpu may be activated. so a uniprocessor may still use mp interrupts. - erik
Re: [9fans] Keyboard and Mouse
> hyperthreading? that doesn't sound right. > > do you mean a bad mp interrupt table? Yes, you are probably right. -- David du Colombier
Re: [9fans] Keyboard and Mouse
> This problem is well known, and seems to be > caused by HyperThreading on some CPU. > > Try to add the following line to "plan9.ini": > *nomp=1 > > It will solve this problem. hyperthreading? that doesn't sound right. do you mean a bad mp interrupt table? - erik
Re: [9fans] Keyboard and Mouse
> I'm just installed Plan9 on pc box (on Intel D915GAG Board) > While installing all (video, keyboard, mouse) works well. > But after first reboot i cant see a mouse pointer but can do some > things with it (buttons are works and mouse moves but i can't see it) > keyboard is ps/2, mouse is usb but connected through ps/2 adapter. > > whats wrong? > where can i find some solutions. This problem is well known, and seems to be caused by HyperThreading on some CPU. Try to add the following line to "plan9.ini": *nomp=1 It will solve this problem. -- David du Colombier
Re: [9fans] Google finally announces their lightweight OS
On Fri, Jul 10, 2009 at 1:14 PM, erik quanstrom wrote: > > there has also been a lot of discussion in the past 1-2 months about > > K, a successor to APL, in #plan9. you might ask there; i may have > > missed a more recent development. > > could someone please explain to the ignorant, what > is interesting about apl? the last surge of interest i > recall in the language was in 1983. ibm offered an > rom for the mga (monochrome graphics adapter) > that substituted the odd apl characters for the > equally-odd pc character set's bucky-bit characters. > > - erik > > Don't view it as a programming language, view it as an executable mathematical notation instead. And as such notations go, it is very rigorous; but also a bit esoteric when you come at it from a programming background. The J "dialect" of APL (http://www.jsoftware.com, essentially the continuation of Ken Iverson's development efforts after APL) is a great tool for thinking about generalised operations on vectors, matrices, cubes, etc. There's a great self-published book on graphics and image processing called "Fractals Visualization and J" by Cliff Reiter. The learning curve is very steep (unless you've never programmed and are used to lots of math). And there is a tendency of adherents to strive for the shortest possible expression(s) to solve a problem. That means it all looks a bit opaque from the outside. But it is possible to write J code that is elegant and easy to understand, even if you come back to it after some time. Robby
[9fans] restricted remote address
h% 9fs sources srv tcp!sources.cs.bell-labs.com: mount failed: restricted remote address virgin media changed my IP address overnight. reverse lookup gives a subdomain of virginmedia.com, but presumably it's the IP address that sources is restricting?
Re: [9fans] Google finally announces their lightweight OS
> there has also been a lot of discussion in the past 1-2 months about > K, a successor to APL, in #plan9. you might ask there; i may have > missed a more recent development. could someone please explain to the ignorant, what is interesting about apl? the last surge of interest i recall in the language was in 1983. ibm offered an rom for the mga (monochrome graphics adapter) that substituted the odd apl characters for the equally-odd pc character set's bucky-bit characters. - erik
Re: [9fans] Google finally announces their lightweight OS
i don't believe so. i've made a number of false starts and would like to return to it some day. there's some very simple interpreters out there (including one by ken[1] for old unix systems) that might be worth looking at if you want to work on a port and performance isn't critical. note that i haven't found a single APL interpretation that uses the unicode apl characters[2] - a version written with plan9 tools could have a very nice advantage there. there has also been a lot of discussion in the past 1-2 months about K, a successor to APL, in #plan9. you might ask there; i may have missed a more recent development. [1] everyone says the character set is very jarring working in APL. for me, what's worse is the fact that in that community, "ken", unadorned, refers to a father of the field, a luminary who's example many seek to follow, but it's a totally different person. here, i mean "our" ken. [2] i think A+, the APL-with-extensions from Morgan Stanley, could as an option, but trying it out on OS X gave poor results.
[9fans] Keyboard and Mouse
I'm just installed Plan9 on pc box (on Intel D915GAG Board) While installing all (video, keyboard, mouse) works well. But after first reboot i cant see a mouse pointer but can do some things with it (buttons are works and mouse moves but i can't see it) keyboard is ps/2, mouse is usb but connected through ps/2 adapter. whats wrong? where can i find some solutions. thanx -- SareLius
[9fans] plan 9 interface color ergonomy
Hello, Even if the plan 9 graphical interface doesn't look like the other ones, as a matter of fact it happens that I'm far less eyes-tired by the plan 9 one than with others---indeed, if I like more the console on Unix like system it's because glyphes are bigger and the black background less aggressive to my taste. I know that the human eye "sees" (or the human brains interprets) more green shades than red or blue. So if plan 9 feels more comfortable (for me at least) this is probably linked to this color choice. (It's curious to see that the themes proposed by other systems almost never propose a green based one: too "natural", so not sufficiently "artefact", human made, "professional"?) I seem to recall reading a paper by Rob Pike about discussions, I think with Renée French, about this visual aspect. But I don't manage to find back which one it was, and if there are other ones about this ergonomy. Has somebody hints? TIA -- Thierry Laronde (Alceste) http://www.kergis.com/ Key fingerprint = 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89 250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C
Re: [9fans] data analysis on plan9
contrib/list [-v] [[user]/package] -v is verbose user and package restrict the output to that user on that users package only. see contrib(1) -Steve
