[9fans] New wiki pages about 9p services and building grids
Hello 9fans! After a year away from public Plan 9 projects and development I have returned to full-time work on Plan 9 software and services. Before posting about my current software project, I would like to make note of two pages I added to the Bell Labs plan 9 wiki which are intended as an overview of topics in multi-machine Plan 9 setups. http://www.plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/9p_services_using_srv,_listen,_exportfs,_import/index.html http://www.plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/Expanding_your_Grid/index.html These pages attempt to summarize key concepts in Plan 9, how 9p is used on a grid of machines and how proceed as you add more machines to a grid and configure systems for particular roles. I have done my best to make these pages clear and correct without excessive detail, but it would be great if some other users with practical experience with mid-sized and larger grids helped error check and add anything crucial I omitted. I also have spent quite a few hours recently trying to add helpful information to other wiki pages and restructure the organization of the Documentation page. I have not removed any information or links although I did rearrange ordering and change the wording of a few descriptions. If you are a wiki contributor or editor I hope my changes are for the better and please help improve my edits if I got anything wrong. :) I will be posting soon about my current software project for Plan 9 from Bell Labs, which is ready for release, but I would like some more user testing and feedback before posting an announcement to this list. If you aren't afraid of Giant ANTS feel free to email me at this address or look me up in #plan9 irc on freenode.net if you are willing to help test my software or even just read my documentation and paper and discuss concepts. -Ben Kidwell "mycroftiv"
Re: [9fans] What's up with $home? And a security question.
i was thinkimg more of combating lack of sleep by using strongdrink(3) - which eventually calls sleep(2). its on the strchr(3) page just before strumpet.
Re: [9fans] What's up with $home? And a security question.
I almost agree with Bruce. Best course of action is alcoholism. On Feb 24, 2013, at 1:24, Bruce Ellis wrote: > drink > > > On 24 February 2013 16:20, Stuart Morrow wrote: >> So I read in New Scientist one time that being awake for more than a >> certain amount of hours is the same as being lightly drunk. >> >> I shouldn't be on the Internet at all really right now. >
Re: [9fans] What's up with $home? And a security question.
drink On 24 February 2013 16:20, Stuart Morrow wrote: > So I read in New Scientist one time that being awake for more than a > certain amount of hours is the same as being lightly drunk. > > I shouldn't be on the Internet at all really right now. > >
Re: [9fans] What's up with $home? And a security question.
So I read in New Scientist one time that being awake for more than a certain amount of hours is the same as being lightly drunk. I shouldn't be on the Internet at all really right now.
Re: [9fans] What's up with $home? And a security question.
Sorry. What I meant was that rc's already-open file descriptors for the pipefile'd file aren't affected by the bind, so for an rc to be affected you need to run a new one. I saw this as being analogous to how it sees environment variables. I'm not interested in environment variables anyway, it's just that I was "accused" of not knowing how they work for a moment. (The reason "accused" is in quotes is that I can't think of a better word right now - Andrey is the nicest person on 9fans.) Stuart
Re: [9fans] What's up with $home? And a security question.
On 24/02/2013, Erik Quanstrom wrote: > When do you expect environment variables to change underfoot? I wouldn't. Just because something stupid _can_ happen doesn't mean it _should_ (you can tab through form fields instead of using the mouse, but then you lose the ability to type a tab...) But I guessed someone else might make use of the possibility - rc's version of rfork knows about the environment flag to rfork() for a reason, does it not? All that environment stuff was sort of peripheral to my main question anyway; I don't care. Stuart
Re: [9fans] What's up with $home? And a security question.
On Feb 24, 2013, at 1:19 AM, Stuart Morrow wrote: > A more realistic one is: rc doesn't go out to /env every time a > variable is accessed. If they're changed underfoot the only way rc > can see them is if you start up a new rc (like the rc under EXAMPLES > in pipefile(1)) I'm failing to see how that man page is relevant to this, the env variables issue is related to the rfork(2) flag as well. --- Federico G. Benavento benave...@gmail.com
Re: [9fans] What's up with $home? And a security question.
cpu and exportfs accept a pattern file (-P) option. with this, you can make cpu export only the namespace parts that you want to give the cpu server access to. the difficulty lies in how to decide what you want to export and still keep cpu usefull. if you really assume a compromized cpu server, then you cant really export anything but /dev/cons. (and even then, he can trick you and make the cpu session look like it errored out, but you'r really on the cpu server and he will then try to capture your keystrokes to get the password). i would be interested to hear from someone who thought about this and made up some good conventions that work. for now, i would suggest not to cpu into machines that you do not trust. but its hard to know who you can trust and even then, machines might have been hacked without the knowledge of the owner. -- cinap
Re: [9fans] What's up with $home? And a security question.
When do you expect environment variables to change underfoot?
- erik
Stuart Morrow wrote:
>I know that about /tmp. I know devenv too. By the way, have you ever
>noticed that the *env libc functions only allow accesses to env files
>with names of length 100 - strlen("/env/") - sizeof '\0', while rc
>allows names of up to 256 characters? I'm not too concerned about
>that one, just saying it's inconsistent. Rio is hardcoded for a
>maximum of 100 windows and I don't think anyone's ever had a problem.
>
>A more realistic one is: rc doesn't go out to /env every time a
>variable is accessed. If they're changed underfoot the only way rc
>can see them is if you start up a new rc (like the rc under EXAMPLES
>in pipefile(1))
>
>What's the reason for this, just speed? It seems weird to me that a
>Plan 9 program would do something "intelligent" like that (and
>therefore less predictable, like ls's that do isatty on /fd/1).
>
>
Re: [9fans] What's up with $home? And a security question.
I know that about /tmp. I know devenv too. By the way, have you ever
noticed that the *env libc functions only allow accesses to env files
with names of length 100 - strlen("/env/") - sizeof '\0', while rc
allows names of up to 256 characters? I'm not too concerned about
that one, just saying it's inconsistent. Rio is hardcoded for a
maximum of 100 windows and I don't think anyone's ever had a problem.
A more realistic one is: rc doesn't go out to /env every time a
variable is accessed. If they're changed underfoot the only way rc
can see them is if you start up a new rc (like the rc under EXAMPLES
in pipefile(1))
What's the reason for this, just speed? It seems weird to me that a
Plan 9 program would do something "intelligent" like that (and
therefore less predictable, like ls's that do isatty on /fd/1).
Re: [9fans] What's up with $home? And a security question.
On 24/02/2013, andrey mirtchovski wrote: > i think you're misunderstanding what private namespaces do, Fuck, yes. Sorry. The idea seemed so perfect in my mind, and so "obvious" that it didn't seem necessary to actually test it. > but rather than explain why nobody else can see your 'local filesystem' when > you've cpu-ed somewhere I should say I'm thinking of cases where the listener for cpu has been modified or replaced by a malicious one that knows how to do that stuff. Export its /mnt/term outside of its private namespace for other programs to see.
[9fans] What's up with $home? And a security question.
I'd like to dedicate this email to all the programs that don't know how to expand environment variables. See*, $path is no longer in the environment (more or less): it's a union of all the relevant executables at a known place: /bin. What's a good reason for your home to be in the environment instead of the namespace? I can see no problem with letting "me" (say) be a reserved name so that "/usr/me" can be assumed to always point to the home you want. ""'s denote literal values here by the way. I'm talking about /usr/me being a bind to /usr/stuart. You'd lose your home after certain types of rforks but then the same is true for a home in the environment. * - that's my trick for avoiding having to put a capital letter in a command- or other case sensitive token-name just because it's at the start of a sentence. That pisses me off in computer documentation so much. My other question is: what's the security implications of cpu? You get to do processes on the remote box, but then they also get to have filesystem access on yours. Does this not worry anyone? Security is really the hard thing for me to understand in Plan 9. Stuart
Re: [9fans] cold boot installation of Plan 9 on a eeepc 701 :(
I tried this a while back before my eee 701, uh, got mostly dismantled. I had to edit a file for the southbridge, if i recall correctly, to be detected. looks like maybe you got past that too? the network chipset is atl2, no driver for it, btw... i'd be interested to hear more about this even though mine now lacks a screen. On Sat, Feb 23, 2013 at 5:08 AM, Roberto Baitelli wrote: > After power off power on i got > trying sdD0... dosinit: can't open #S/sdD0/9fat > dosinit #S/sdD0/9fat failed > Boot from: > i found the file bootdisk.img as Gorka said. But what would be the answer > for the question above: Boot from... to get the instalation procedure go on > using the bootdisk.img? > > On Feb 23, 2013, at 9:00 AM, 9fans-requ...@9fans.net wrote: > > > Re: [9fans] cold boot installation of Plan 9 on a eeepc 701 > > :( > > -- http://echoline.org
Re: [9fans] cold boot installation of Plan 9 on a eeepc 701 :(
After power off power on i got trying sdD0... dosinit: can't open #S/sdD0/9fat dosinit #S/sdD0/9fat failed Boot from: i found the file bootdisk.img as Gorka said. But what would be the answer for the question above: Boot from... to get the instalation procedure go on using the bootdisk.img? On Feb 23, 2013, at 9:00 AM, 9fans-requ...@9fans.net wrote: > Re: [9fans] cold boot installation of Plan 9 on a eeepc 701 > :(
Re: [9fans] cold boot installation of Plan 9 on a eeepc 701 :(
On Feb 21, 2013, at 2:49 PM, erik quanstrom wrote: > iirc, 9boot doesn't use floppy emulation, but > it might then need cdfs. i haven't tried this, > so someone who has should speak up. :-) It does not have a floppy. You do not need cdfs for loading. The mbr is in the first sector like in a hard disk and it is anotated where the 9load is when creating the filesystem. There is a 9fat file in the iso called bootdisk.img in the root directory. The loader knows enough to get to it, and then gets the kernel. G.
