Re: [9fans] Ancient History: "Electronic Mail Without Aliases"
Maybe it was unpublished? It isn't listed on Professor Lesk's published works page. http://www.lesk.com/mlesk/pub.html Ian
Re: [9fans] Logitech T400 mouse with Plan9 and Plan9port Acme
On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 12:24 PM, Ruslan Khusnullin < ruslan.khusnul...@gmail.com> wrote: > Sounds weird and tricky but I will definitely take a try, thank you! I > had a Logitech M100 mouse with a scroll wheel supporting "horizontal > scroll" so pushing a wheel this way is not possible. > What about B2+B1 chord? B2+B1 also works fine this way. I'm resting my finger in the crook between the scroll wheel and B1, and my (not particularly dextrous) finger doesn't have any trouble pressing first with it's right edge and then with the rest of the finger.
Re: [9fans] APE select() and awkward Python subprocess PIPEfitting
Actually, that printf was for my debugging:
diff /sys/src/ape/lib/ap/plan9/_buf.c _buf.c
294a295
> /*
298c299
< errno = EBADF; /* how X tells a client
is gone */
---
> errno = EBADF; // how X tells a client
> is gone
300a302
> */
On Feb 25, 2013, at 8:29 PM, Jeff Sickel wrote:
> I've been tracking down little errors in the APE select() function that
> cropped up when trying to use Python's subprocess module. After a few too
> many hours of investigation, I've come to the conclusion that the code that
> causes error is intentional code to handle a specific case for X (I'll assume
> X11 until corrected):
>
> ; diff /sys/src/ape/lib/ap/plan9/_buf.c _buf.c
> 292a293
>> printf("no buffered %d\n", i);
> 294a296
>> /*
> 298c300
> < errno = EBADF; /* how X tells a client
> is gone */
> ---
>> errno = EBADF; // how X tells a client
>> is gone
> 300a303
>> */
>
>
>
> By removing the above, Python code that uses subprocess.Popen(cmd,
> stdout=PIPE, stderr=PIPE) will now work correctly, without having to resort
> to os.popen3(cmd) attempts to get around the select.error: (4, 'Bad file
> number') that would crop up without the change.
>
> My question is: does anyone still use the X11 code based on APE? Is this
> section safe to remove in sources? Or do you have additional recommendations
> to work around the select() error?
>
> If not, I'll prep a patch. Thanks.
>
> -jas
>
>
[9fans] APE select() and awkward Python subprocess PIPEfitting
I've been tracking down little errors in the APE select() function that cropped
up when trying to use Python's subprocess module. After a few too many hours
of investigation, I've come to the conclusion that the code that causes error
is intentional code to handle a specific case for X (I'll assume X11 until
corrected):
; diff /sys/src/ape/lib/ap/plan9/_buf.c _buf.c
292a293
> printf("no buffered %d\n", i);
294a296
> /*
298c300
< errno = EBADF; /* how X tells a client
is gone */
---
> errno = EBADF; // how X tells a client
> is gone
300a303
> */
By removing the above, Python code that uses subprocess.Popen(cmd, stdout=PIPE,
stderr=PIPE) will now work correctly, without having to resort to
os.popen3(cmd) attempts to get around the select.error: (4, 'Bad file number')
that would crop up without the change.
My question is: does anyone still use the X11 code based on APE? Is this
section safe to remove in sources? Or do you have additional recommendations
to work around the select() error?
If not, I'll prep a patch. Thanks.
-jas
Re: [9fans] Logitech T400 mouse with Plan9 and Plan9port Acme
On 25 February 2013 20:24, Ruslan Khusnullin wrote: > had a Logitech M100 mouse with a scroll wheel supporting "horizontal > scroll" so pushing a wheel this way is not possible. > What about B2+B1 chord? > It should not be difficult to map the scroll left button to B2. I've done it in p9p's acme and it's even better than 3 button mice. -- - yiyus || JGL .
Re: [9fans] Logitech T400 mouse with Plan9 and Plan9port Acme
I've been using one of these: Lenovo 3 button scrollpoint USB mouse http://shop.lenovo.com/us/itemdetails/31P7405/460/0E80436C80A748E6AA76791FC42C9CA3 It has been very reliable and comfortable to use. Robby On Feb 25, 2013 7:19 PM, "Ruslan Khusnullin" wrote: > On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 6:06 PM, Alexander Kapshuk > wrote: > > I stumbled upon this one a while back. Never used one though. Been > > using a two-button mouse with a scroll wheel. Does the job. > Using a mouse with a scroll wheel about 10 hours a day results in pain > in my hand, especially in middle finger. Also using a scroll wheel > needs some additional accuracy and attention for just pushing it and > not scrolling. > > > http://h30094.www3.hp.com/product/sku/2545791 > I saw this mouse many times and almost bought it but decided to try > Contour Mouse. After trying Contour I don't want to use a mouse of > this classical form, T400 looks a little more comfortable and > ergonomic. > > If you will be able to use T400 in real life could you please share > your expirience? > >
Re: [9fans] Logitech T400 mouse with Plan9 and
On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 6:32 PM, Mark van Atten wrote: > On Monday, February 25, 2013 2:38:40 PM UTC+1, Ruslan Khusnullin wrote: > >> Considering how difficult it is to find a new usb mouse with 3 real buttons > > The HP DY651A is such a mouse and is still available, for example at Amazon. > Is that an option for you? I doubt it's comfortable for intensive usage. Especially after trying Contour Mouse. Are you comfortable with it?
Re: [9fans] Logitech T400 mouse with Plan9 and Plan9port Acme
On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 7:47 PM, Jeremy Jackins wrote: > Off-topic, but.. > > What works well for me (on a 2 button + scroll wheel mouse) is using my > index finger for both buttons 1 and 2. So if I want to chord 1+2 I press 1, > pressing near the rightmost edge of the button, then sort of roll my finger > to the right a bit which presses down the scroll wheel. It might sound > awkward but it actually works nicely (for me, anyway) on most mice with > scroll wheels. > > After getting used to this, using all three fingers for chording actually > feels really inconvenient :) Sounds weird and tricky but I will definitely take a try, thank you! I had a Logitech M100 mouse with a scroll wheel supporting "horizontal scroll" so pushing a wheel this way is not possible. What about B2+B1 chord?
Re: [9fans] Virtualbox and real mode
Btw, it also works in VMware. -- Aram Hăvărneanu
Re: [9fans] Virtualbox and real mode
25 feb 2013 kl. 14:33 skrev James Chapman : > I downgraded to 4.1.24 as 4.2.6 (or possibly some other 4.2.x) didn't work > for me. > > I think the only thing that I had to change was: > > To choose network adapter: Intel PRO/1000 MT Server, it works with > bridged/nat I think. > > James > > Downgrading to 4.1.24 did the trick for me. Now running Plan9 just fine. Thanks James. Thanks to Aram too. I have been using Plan9 on QEMU just fine, never understood why it wouldn't work on Virtualbox though. -- Rikard
Re: [9fans] Logitech T400 mouse with Plan9 and
On 02/25/2013 03:50 PM, Mark van Atten wrote: > >>> http://h30094.www3.hp.com/product/sku/2545791 >> >> I bought one of these and after one month of use the buttons began to >> misbehave. But well, I guess one can't expect too much for that price. > > I'm sorry to hear that. Did you find an alternative? Yes. I'm using the Evoluent 3 Rev. 2 since then. I think this mouse is well known here. > I bought my two DY651A's two years ago, and they still function perfectly > well. Maybe mine was somehow defect or my clicks were too hard, who knows :)
Re: [9fans] Logitech T400 mouse with Plan9 and Plan9port Acme
Off-topic, but.. What works well for me (on a 2 button + scroll wheel mouse) is using my index finger for both buttons 1 and 2. So if I want to chord 1+2 I press 1, pressing near the rightmost edge of the button, then sort of roll my finger to the right a bit which presses down the scroll wheel. It might sound awkward but it actually works nicely (for me, anyway) on most mice with scroll wheels. After getting used to this, using all three fingers for chording actually feels really inconvenient :) On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 7:21 AM, Dustin Fechner wrote: > On 02/25/2013 03:06 PM, Alexander Kapshuk wrote: > > I stumbled upon this one a while back. Never used one though. Been > > using a two-button mouse with a scroll wheel. Does the job. > > http://h30094.www3.hp.com/product/sku/2545791 > > I bought one of these and after one month of use the buttons began to > misbehave. But well, I guess one can't expect too much for that price. > > >
Re: [9fans] Logitech T400 mouse with Plan9 and
> > http://h30094.www3.hp.com/product/sku/2545791 > > > > I bought one of these and after one month of use the buttons began to > > misbehave. But well, I guess one can't expect too much for that price. I'm sorry to hear that. Did you find an alternative? I bought my two DY651A's two years ago, and they still function perfectly well. Mark.
Re: [9fans] Logitech T400 mouse with Plan9 and
On Monday, February 25, 2013 2:38:40 PM UTC+1, Ruslan Khusnullin wrote: > Considering how difficult it is to find a new usb mouse with 3 real buttons The HP DY651A is such a mouse and is still available, for example at Amazon. Is that an option for you? Mark.
Re: [9fans] Logitech T400 mouse with Plan9 and Plan9port Acme
On 02/25/2013 03:06 PM, Alexander Kapshuk wrote: > I stumbled upon this one a while back. Never used one though. Been > using a two-button mouse with a scroll wheel. Does the job. > http://h30094.www3.hp.com/product/sku/2545791 I bought one of these and after one month of use the buttons began to misbehave. But well, I guess one can't expect too much for that price.
Re: [9fans] Logitech T400 mouse with Plan9 and Plan9port Acme
I stumbled upon this one a while back. Never used one though. Been using a two-button mouse with a scroll wheel. Does the job. http://h30094.www3.hp.com/product/sku/2545791 On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 3:38 PM, Ruslan Khusnullin wrote: > Considering how difficult it is to find a new usb mouse with 3 real > buttons I'm looking for workarounds. I have a Contour Mouse Perfit and > I enjoy it a lot but buying a new Contour Mouse is expensive and very > difficult in terms of shipping when you live in Russia, Contour just > don't ship it. > > I see there are few new "touch scroll" mice in stores and one of them > Logitech T400 looks not bad to me. Unfortunately they don't have wired > version but the "touch scroll" feels like a "styled 3rd button". > > Did anyone had a chance to test Logitech T400 mouse? Does it's middle > "touch scroll" work as a normal B2? Does it react on soft accidental > touch? Is it configurable? > > Thanks in advance. >
Re: [9fans] Virtualbox and real mode
On Feb 24, 2013, at 2:20 PM, Rikard Lang wrote: > 24 feb 2013 kl. 12:48 skrev James Chapman : >> Virtualbox 4.1.24 works well for me. >> > I have Virtualbox 4.2.6 What settings if any did you use for the virtual > machine? I downgraded to 4.1.24 as 4.2.6 (or possibly some other 4.2.x) didn't work for me. I think the only thing that I had to change was: To choose network adapter: Intel PRO/1000 MT Server, it works with bridged/nat I think. James
Re: [9fans] What's up with $home? And a security question.
"My other question is: what's the security implications of cpu? You get to do processes on the remote box, but then they also get to have filesystem access on yours. " If you don't entirely trust the cpu server, you *should* export a name space from your terminal, limit the processes on the cpu server to just that name space, be careful what's in that space, including how you've set permissions, and which user is doing the export. That way, your terminal (which is under your control, allowing for SMI, BIOS, UEFI, bugs ...) acts as the reference monitor to your files. It's also easy to make a 9P filter that ensures read-only access on an arbitrary 9P connection, so that even if permissions are wrong, permanent damage is prevented. It's just a few dozen lines, much of that boilerplate. I say "terminal" above, but it applies to any device or your own servers that connect to the untrusted server. Ordinarily, the cpu server has access to files and devices at /mnt/term, but you control that access at the terminal. On the cpu server itself, however, for the cpu server to access your files directly from the file server, when you first mount /srv/boot to form the root of a name space on the cpu server, you normally give the server implicit permission to speak for you to the file server in all subsequent transactions from that mount point, because it is multiplexing the requests of many users on that same connnection, and you trust that it won't (say) deviously or carelessly allow another user's process to access a fid that you've Tauth'd and Tattach'd, giving full access as you to all your files, perhaps long after you've disconnected.
Re: [9fans] curious mtime of cwfs
thanks Anthony, I understand the behavior of fossil. cwfs is out of the rule. I said: standing on general rule of unix and plan9, mtime of directory should be the time that the contents are modified. but this is not true in rigorous speaking. Kenji Arisawa On 2013/02/25, at 19:34, Anthony Martin wrote: > cinap_len...@gmx.de once said: >> i'm not sure. if you touch an existing file, then it makes sense >> that the files mtime gets updated, not the whole directory. >> >> wstat() and write() on a file only update the files mtime, not >> the parent directory. >> >> however creating a new file or deleting a file from a directory >> does change the directories mtime. (the dump change makes it >> consistent with that). > > From stat(5): > >For a plain file, mtime is the time of the most recent >create, open with truncation, or write; for a directory >it is the time of the most recent remove, create, or >wstat of a file in the directory. > > Cheers, > Anthony >
Re: [9fans] curious mtime of cwfs
that means kenfs/cwfs and kfs are doing wstat wrong. -- cinap
Re: [9fans] curious mtime of cwfs
cinap_len...@gmx.de once said: > i'm not sure. if you touch an existing file, then it makes sense > that the files mtime gets updated, not the whole directory. > > wstat() and write() on a file only update the files mtime, not > the parent directory. > > however creating a new file or deleting a file from a directory > does change the directories mtime. (the dump change makes it > consistent with that). >From stat(5): For a plain file, mtime is the time of the most recent create, open with truncation, or write; for a directory it is the time of the most recent remove, create, or wstat of a file in the directory. Cheers, Anthony
Re: [9fans] curious mtime of cwfs
the role of directory mtime of plan9 is ambiguous for me. that need not be same as that of unix because plan9 does not have ctime. is there the specification? by the way, directory atime is also difficult to understand. the time is really useful? readdir() returns 0 although cwfs has the value. Kenji Arisawa On 2013/02/25, at 17:23, cinap_len...@gmx.de wrote: > i'm not sure. if you touch an existing file, then it makes sense > that the files mtime gets updated, not the whole directory. > > wstat() and write() on a file only update the files mtime, not > the parent directory. > > however creating a new file or deleting a file from a directory > does change the directories mtime. (the dump change makes it > consistent with that). > > -- > cinap >
Re: [9fans] Virtualbox and real mode
Virtualbox doesn't care about Plan 9 so why do you care about it? Plan 9 works really well in QEMU or KVM/QEMU. -- Aram Hăvărneanu
Re: [9fans] What's up with $home? And a security question.
if you can't trust a cpu server don't use it. applies to carbon based life-forms too. On 25 February 2013 00:29, wrote: > Cinap mostly covered this, but yeah: if you don't trust the > system you're connecting to, cpu isn't really safe[1]. But > then, neither is anything else: even the simplest service > (say, telnet) can be trivially bugged with things like key > loggers if the remote side's untrustworthy. > > If you've not read it, you (and everyone else in CS) should > read "Reflections on Trusting"[1], by Ken Thompson, > describing how he bugged the login program and then > made it roughly undetectable. Things like cpu's -P can > help in a sense, but at some point it comes down to > trusting the humans on the remote end. > > [1] http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/ken/trust.html > > >
Re: [9fans] curious mtime of cwfs
i'm not sure. if you touch an existing file, then it makes sense that the files mtime gets updated, not the whole directory. wstat() and write() on a file only update the files mtime, not the parent directory. however creating a new file or deleting a file from a directory does change the directories mtime. (the dump change makes it consistent with that). -- cinap
