Re: [9fans] libmemlayer bug
On Mon, 9 Dec 2013, Conor Williams wrote: ok... i'm now interested... is there a hot boot plan 9 yet? 9front.org and also whatever our google code url is. -- Veety
Re: [9fans] music storage
just downloading a torrent with the mp3's seems simpler than swapping cd's. :) Just beware, in my experience of this (for research purposes, yes really!) many, if not most CD images in WAV or PCM format are in fact decodes of MP3s, and many of these where low bitrate MP3s which are nasty. personally I have moved away from compressed audio, not because I distrust compression, but I like browsing through a pile of CDs looking for somthing that matches my mood - for me the user interface is better; perhaps its my age. -Steve
Re: [9fans] music storage
I gave up some time back and ripped the family's cd collection (around 500 discs) to ALAC. After that I converted most to AAC for listening on audio players and left the original rips sitting in storage. Needless to say, Goodwill was a little surprised to find 500 discs donated at once! On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 2:52 PM, Steve Simon st...@quintile.net wrote: just downloading a torrent with the mp3's seems simpler than swapping cd's. :) Just beware, in my experience of this (for research purposes, yes really!) many, if not most CD images in WAV or PCM format are in fact decodes of MP3s, and many of these where low bitrate MP3s which are nasty. personally I have moved away from compressed audio, not because I distrust compression, but I like browsing through a pile of CDs looking for somthing that matches my mood - for me the user interface is better; perhaps its my age. -Steve
Re: [9fans] music storage
jees, i traded a bit of quality for space On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 9:04 PM, Steven Stallion sstall...@gmail.com wrote: I gave up some time back and ripped the family's cd collection (around 500 discs) to ALAC. After that I converted most to AAC for listening on audio players and left the original rips sitting in storage. Needless to say, Goodwill was a little surprised to find 500 discs donated at once! On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 2:52 PM, Steve Simon st...@quintile.net wrote: just downloading a torrent with the mp3's seems simpler than swapping cd's. :) Just beware, in my experience of this (for research purposes, yes really!) many, if not most CD images in WAV or PCM format are in fact decodes of MP3s, and many of these where low bitrate MP3s which are nasty. personally I have moved away from compressed audio, not because I distrust compression, but I like browsing through a pile of CDs looking for somthing that matches my mood - for me the user interface is better; perhaps its my age. -Steve
Re: [9fans] music storage
Honestly ALAC isn't half bad. I believe the compression ratio is around 40-50%. Given how plentiful storage is these days, it was a small price to pay for everlasting quality. On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 4:13 PM, Conor Williams conor.willi...@gmail.com wrote: jees, i traded a bit of quality for space On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 9:04 PM, Steven Stallion sstall...@gmail.com wrote: I gave up some time back and ripped the family's cd collection (around 500 discs) to ALAC. After that I converted most to AAC for listening on audio players and left the original rips sitting in storage. Needless to say, Goodwill was a little surprised to find 500 discs donated at once! On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 2:52 PM, Steve Simon st...@quintile.net wrote: just downloading a torrent with the mp3's seems simpler than swapping cd's. :) Just beware, in my experience of this (for research purposes, yes really!) many, if not most CD images in WAV or PCM format are in fact decodes of MP3s, and many of these where low bitrate MP3s which are nasty. personally I have moved away from compressed audio, not because I distrust compression, but I like browsing through a pile of CDs looking for somthing that matches my mood - for me the user interface is better; perhaps its my age. -Steve
Re: [9fans] music storage
On Mon Dec 9 17:14:07 EST 2013, conor.willi...@gmail.com wrote: jees, i traded a bit of quality for space how little space / how much music do you have? - erik
Re: [9fans] music storage
On Mon Dec 9 16:05:18 EST 2013, sstall...@gmail.com wrote: I gave up some time back and ripped the family's cd collection (around 500 discs) to ALAC. After that I converted most to AAC for listening on audio players and left the original rips sitting in storage. Needless to say, Goodwill was a little surprised to find 500 discs donated at once! i alphebetized 'em and put 'em in the storage room. always liked the artwork, and so far i've been too lazy to scan the cd liner. - erik
Re: [9fans] music storage
just got 10,000 Maniacs from the library Blind man's zoo for free, ripped it to Mp3 and it only takes up about 60 MB... I have a nice 2 computer network going about 100GB on each... On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 10:39 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.netwrote: On Mon Dec 9 17:14:07 EST 2013, conor.willi...@gmail.com wrote: jees, i traded a bit of quality for space how little space / how much music do you have? - erik
Re: [9fans] music storage
FLAC seems huge (again) compared to Mp3 but I will try the Flac - according to: http://www.head-fi.org/t/654057/alac-vs-flac there is good compression alright... On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 10:18 PM, Steven Stallion sstall...@gmail.comwrote: Honestly ALAC isn't half bad. I believe the compression ratio is around 40-50%. Given how plentiful storage is these days, it was a small price to pay for everlasting quality. On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 4:13 PM, Conor Williams conor.willi...@gmail.com wrote: jees, i traded a bit of quality for space On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 9:04 PM, Steven Stallion sstall...@gmail.com wrote: I gave up some time back and ripped the family's cd collection (around 500 discs) to ALAC. After that I converted most to AAC for listening on audio players and left the original rips sitting in storage. Needless to say, Goodwill was a little surprised to find 500 discs donated at once! On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 2:52 PM, Steve Simon st...@quintile.net wrote: just downloading a torrent with the mp3's seems simpler than swapping cd's. :) Just beware, in my experience of this (for research purposes, yes really!) many, if not most CD images in WAV or PCM format are in fact decodes of MP3s, and many of these where low bitrate MP3s which are nasty. personally I have moved away from compressed audio, not because I distrust compression, but I like browsing through a pile of CDs looking for somthing that matches my mood - for me the user interface is better; perhaps its my age. -Steve
Re: [9fans] music storage
how much storage do 10,000 Maniacs take? On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 2:51 PM, Conor Williams conor.willi...@gmail.comwrote: just got 10,000 Maniacs from the library Blind man's zoo for free, ripped it to Mp3 and it only takes up about 60 MB... I have a nice 2 computer network going about 100GB on each... On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 10:39 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.netwrote: On Mon Dec 9 17:14:07 EST 2013, conor.willi...@gmail.com wrote: jees, i traded a bit of quality for space how little space / how much music do you have? - erik
Re: [9fans] music storage
depends what you use to compressed them! i've seen megamachines... On 10 December 2013 09:55, Skip Tavakkolian skip.tavakkol...@gmail.comwrote: how much storage do 10,000 Maniacs take? On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 2:51 PM, Conor Williams conor.willi...@gmail.comwrote: just got 10,000 Maniacs from the library Blind man's zoo for free, ripped it to Mp3 and it only takes up about 60 MB... I have a nice 2 computer network going about 100GB on each... On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 10:39 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.netwrote: On Mon Dec 9 17:14:07 EST 2013, conor.willi...@gmail.com wrote: jees, i traded a bit of quality for space how little space / how much music do you have? - erik
Re: [9fans] music storage
On Mon Dec 9 17:54:11 EST 2013, conor.willi...@gmail.com wrote: FLAC seems huge (again) compared to Mp3 but I will try the Flac - according to: http://www.head-fi.org/t/654057/alac-vs-flac there is good compression alright... sure. but that's not engineering. engineering is balancing the cost of a resource vs the benefit. so we're trading storage against sound quality. storage is ~$15/GB, and sound quality is subjective. so it's up to the customer to determine where on this continuum the solution should be. but it does seem a tad rich to say that an extra $10 or so of storage is extravagant (assuming steve's 50% compression.) - erik
Re: [9fans] music storage
um. it was a joke... On 10 December 2013 10:19, Conor Williams conor.willi...@gmail.com wrote: 10,000 Maniac + Ozzy Ozbourne 10,001 Maniacs Blind Man's Zoo-MB 01 Eat for Two.mp34.3MB 02 Please Forgive Us.mp3--3.9MB 03 The Big Parade.mp3-4.8MB 04 Trouble Me.mp3-3.8MB 05 You Happy Puppet.mp3---4.4MB 06 Headstrong.mp3-5.4MB 07 Poison in the Well.mp3-3.9MB 08 Dust Bowl.mp3--5.3MB 09 The Lion's Share.mp3---4.1MB 10 Hateful Hate.mp3---6.2MB 11 Jubilee.mp37.6MB --- 53.7MBMB On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 10:55 PM, Skip Tavakkolian skip.tavakkol...@gmail.com wrote: how much storage do 10,000 Maniacs take? On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 2:51 PM, Conor Williams conor.willi...@gmail.comwrote: just got 10,000 Maniacs from the library Blind man's zoo for free, ripped it to Mp3 and it only takes up about 60 MB... I have a nice 2 computer network going about 100GB on each... On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 10:39 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.netwrote: On Mon Dec 9 17:14:07 EST 2013, conor.willi...@gmail.com wrote: jees, i traded a bit of quality for space how little space / how much music do you have? - erik
Re: [9fans] music storage
Since it was a joke, 808 STATE Plan 9: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qv8BOkV4l8U On Dec 9, 2013, at 5:25 PM, Bruce Ellis bruce.el...@gmail.com wrote: um. it was a joke…
Re: [9fans] music storage
cool... On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 11:18 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.netwrote: On Mon Dec 9 17:54:11 EST 2013, conor.willi...@gmail.com wrote: FLAC seems huge (again) compared to Mp3 but I will try the Flac - according to: http://www.head-fi.org/t/654057/alac-vs-flac there is good compression alright... sure. but that's not engineering. engineering is balancing the cost of a resource vs the benefit. so we're trading storage against sound quality. storage is ~$15/GB, and sound quality is subjective. so it's up to the customer to determine where on this continuum the solution should be. but it does seem a tad rich to say that an extra $10 or so of storage is extravagant (assuming steve's 50% compression.) - erik
Re: [9fans] music storage
On Mon, 9 Dec 2013, Jeff Sickel wrote: Since it was a joke, 808 STATE Plan 9: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qv8BOkV4l8U On Dec 9, 2013, at 5:25 PM, Bruce Ellis bruce.el...@gmail.com wrote: um. it was a joke… Man, youtube really sucks in mothra. -- Veety
Re: [9fans] music storage
Just beware, in my experience of this (for research purposes, yes really!) many, if not most CD images in WAV or PCM format are in fact decodes of MP3s, and many of these where low bitrate MP3s which are nasty. personally I have moved away from compressed audio, not because I distrust compression, but I like browsing through a pile of CDs looking for somthing that matches my mood - for me the user interface is better; perhaps its my age. i don't understand this claim. all standard audio cds are in pcm format. - erik
Re: [9fans] music storage
2013/12/9 erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net: Just beware, in my experience of this (for research purposes, yes really!) many, if not most CD images in WAV or PCM format are in fact decodes of MP3s, and many of these where low bitrate MP3s which are nasty. personally I have moved away from compressed audio, not because I distrust compression, but I like browsing through a pile of CDs looking for somthing that matches my mood - for me the user interface is better; perhaps its my age. i don't understand this claim. all standard audio cds are in pcm format. 1) Audio was recorded to CD at factory. 2) Some guy ripped it and converted it to MP3. 3) Some guy got the MP3s and made redbook CD for their car. 4) Friend of guy borrows CD and rips lossless. 5) Lossless quality not lossless anymore. That's what Steve's saying. --dho - erik
Re: [9fans] music storage
He is saying that some people will use mp3 compression, then convert to WAV/PCM. Maybe some artists record directly to mp3 then convert to have them play on audio players. On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 7:20 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: Just beware, in my experience of this (for research purposes, yes really!) many, if not most CD images in WAV or PCM format are in fact decodes of MP3s, and many of these where low bitrate MP3s which are nasty. personally I have moved away from compressed audio, not because I distrust compression, but I like browsing through a pile of CDs looking for somthing that matches my mood - for me the user interface is better; perhaps its my age. i don't understand this claim. all standard audio cds are in pcm format. - erik
Re: [9fans] music storage
i don't understand this claim. all standard audio cds are in pcm format. I was not clear. If you download wav or raw pcm files via bittorrent et al the tel-l-tail signature of MP3 encoding can often be found. i.e the files which claim to be rips directly from CDs are in fact decoded low bitrate MP3 files. I would not claim that this is always the case, but in my experiments (testing audio quality assurance software which is designed to detect this kind of thing) I was surprised how common it is. -Steve
Re: [9fans] music storage
Sorry everyone, I should have caught up with the thread before replying. Its late and I should go to bed. -Steve
Re: [9fans] music storage
I was not clear. If you download wav or raw pcm files via bittorrent et al the tel-l-tail that was the missing bit. thanks! - erik
Re: [9fans] music storage
Well there is some truth in all these emails. First let me say that no recording studio records in mp3 and no studio software does unless you really force it. Not even Garage Band - the baseline. (Note that I will usually make a mp3 for my phone after a mix.) That said the dudes compiling and selling CDs will grab the data in any format and decode it and sell it. Just 'cause you bought a CD doesn't mean it was really uncompressed DDD. Certainly a worse story if you don't know if it's pirated. How many CDs do you have with a hologram on them, Erik? That said 9 out of 10 British housewives etc. It is not too hard to tell and clearly Simon has the tools. I do. Just checked out a suspect disk. Hmm profile is strongly correlated with 96kps. brucee On 10 Dec 2013 12:54, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: I was not clear. If you download wav or raw pcm files via bittorrent et al the tel-l-tail that was the missing bit. thanks! - erik
Re: [9fans] music storage
how much storage do 10,000 Maniacs take? Eleven. Preferably not pronounced with a Scottish Accent: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAz_UvnUeuU
Re: [9fans] music storage
On Mon Dec 9 21:23:18 EST 2013, bruce.el...@gmail.com wrote: Well there is some truth in all these emails. First let me say that no recording studio records in mp3 and no studio software does unless you really force it. Not even Garage Band - the baseline. (Note that I will usually make a mp3 for my phone after a mix.) That said the dudes compiling and selling CDs will grab the data in any format and decode it and sell it. Just 'cause you bought a CD doesn't mean it was really uncompressed DDD. Certainly a worse story if you don't know if it's pirated. How many CDs do you have with a hologram on them, Erik? almost all my cds were bought first hand before 1998. all came with proper packaging, and silkscreening on the front side. even so, as you point out, the quality does vary. i find some remastered AAD or ADD disks to be of good quality. listening to muddy waters, folk singer as i type. That said 9 out of 10 British housewives etc. It is not too hard to tell and clearly Simon has the tools. I do. Just checked out a suspect disk. Hmm profile is strongly correlated with 96kps. very interesting. time to do a little investigation. - erik
Re: [9fans] music storage
good to hear. all of the major brands had holograms in 1998. so the answer is? brucee On 10 December 2013 13:42, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: On Mon Dec 9 21:23:18 EST 2013, bruce.el...@gmail.com wrote: Well there is some truth in all these emails. First let me say that no recording studio records in mp3 and no studio software does unless you really force it. Not even Garage Band - the baseline. (Note that I will usually make a mp3 for my phone after a mix.) That said the dudes compiling and selling CDs will grab the data in any format and decode it and sell it. Just 'cause you bought a CD doesn't mean it was really uncompressed DDD. Certainly a worse story if you don't know if it's pirated. How many CDs do you have with a hologram on them, Erik? almost all my cds were bought first hand before 1998. all came with proper packaging, and silkscreening on the front side. even so, as you point out, the quality does vary. i find some remastered AAD or ADD disks to be of good quality. listening to muddy waters, folk singer as i type. That said 9 out of 10 British housewives etc. It is not too hard to tell and clearly Simon has the tools. I do. Just checked out a suspect disk. Hmm profile is strongly correlated with 96kps. very interesting. time to do a little investigation. - erik
Re: [9fans] music storage
offtopic at this point, but anyways: I'm willing to bet that at least a few pre-1998 cds from your collection were pirated copies from the factory in Stara Zagora in Bulgaria our little claim to fame from that period... http://goo.gl/8odvm1
Re: [9fans] music storage
Maybe he's lucky. I have a swag of such disks and 80% are very fine pirates. brucee On 10 December 2013 14:26, andrey mirtchovski mirtchov...@gmail.com wrote: offtopic at this point, but anyways: I'm willing to bet that at least a few pre-1998 cds from your collection were pirated copies from the factory in Stara Zagora in Bulgaria our little claim to fame from that period... http://goo.gl/8odvm1
Re: [9fans] music storage
On Mon Dec 9 22:15:18 EST 2013, bruce.el...@gmail.com wrote: good to hear. all of the major brands had holograms in 1998. proper packaging includes a hologram. but clearly as andrey points out, that's probablly not proof that they're not junk. Maybe he's lucky. I have a swag of such disks and 80% are very fine pirates. so here's a question: was the pirating uniform? that is, did top 100 cds get pirated at the same rate as say the top 2 - the top 100? - erik
Re: [9fans] music storage
so here's a question: was the pirating uniform? that is, did top 100 cds get pirated at the same rate as say the top 2 - the top 100? i would say it was uniform -- all musical tastes were covered from obscure heavy metal to django reinhardt. pre-1990 there was a glut for any good quality music in the eastern bloc and people would buy and listen to anything. for example there was really no difference between the presentation of an official early album of the red hot chili peppers and a bootleg of a 1988 concert in front of thousand people. it all went, but i'm sure people brought more choice stuff to the west. from around 1986 onward people started pirating via huge casette-copy farms which were lower quality and were mostly for local market consumption, but once they figured out the big money was in CDs the big guys bought entire shop catalogues from the west en masse and brought them over for duplication. for all intents and purposes the big factory from the link above was a government operation. kids my age back then with a little bit of corel draw skills were put in sweatshops to take care of the cover art and off it went. people hopped on busses west or east 3-day vacations with sacks full of CDs.
Re: [9fans] music storage
no simple answer. unusual compilations are obvious. a lot of classic rock CDs aren't real. i have a handel messiah that swaers its real but it's about 128kbs at best and statistically 14 bit. brucee On 10 December 2013 14:39, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: On Mon Dec 9 22:15:18 EST 2013, bruce.el...@gmail.com wrote: good to hear. all of the major brands had holograms in 1998. proper packaging includes a hologram. but clearly as andrey points out, that's probablly not proof that they're not junk. Maybe he's lucky. I have a swag of such disks and 80% are very fine pirates. so here's a question: was the pirating uniform? that is, did top 100 cds get pirated at the same rate as say the top 2 - the top 100? - erik
Re: [9fans] music storage
lol On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 2:35 AM, Winston Kodogo kod...@gmail.com wrote: how much storage do 10,000 Maniacs take? Eleven. Preferably not pronounced with a Scottish Accent: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAz_UvnUeuU
Re: [9fans] music storage
Without piracy, the economy would be in the doldrums. Though that’s not quite the gist of Andrian Johns’ Piracy: http://www.adrianjohns.com/piracy/ https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/05/adrian-johns-i-piracy-i-essential-history-lessons That said, today we have youtube.com where everyone can participate in copyright violation, just another term for piracy at the click of a button.
Re: [9fans] music storage
bitorrent torrents save me a ton of money... jees, i'd have to get a job only for 'em On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 6:46 AM, Jeff Sickel j...@corpus-callosum.comwrote: Without piracy, the economy would be in the doldrums. Though that’s not quite the gist of Andrian Johns’ Piracy: http://www.adrianjohns.com/piracy/ https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/05/adrian-johns-i-piracy-i-essential-history-lessons That said, today we have youtube.com where everyone can participate in copyright violation, just another term for piracy at the click of a button.
