Re: [9fans] Raspberry Pi image
But how this image was produced? just mk in the sys/src/9/bcm/ official plan9 distribution or do you have a custom plan9? The 9pi image is very standard Plan 9. Libraries, command binaries and kernel are all built from distribution sources with cd /sys/src mk install cd /sys/src/9/bcm mk install For the first, you need to link with the '-f' flag to get hardware floating point. That could be done by editing mkfiles, but since I build for other arm systems from the same sources, I do it by setting up aliases in my shell environment before running mk - fn 5l { /$cputype/bin/5l -f $* } fn pcc { /$cputype/bin/pcc -f $* } The rest of the image is the same as the standard distribution for any architecture, with x86 binaries and libraries removed, and these small changes in config files to make an easier introduction for new users running as 'glenda': 1. The /rc/bin/termrc.local script will optionally start up networking using the command defined in cmdline.txt variable ipconfig= 2. The /usr/glenda/bin/rc/riostart script adds a console output window to prevent console messages from messing up the rio desktop 3. The /rc/bin/replica/pull script filters x86 binaries from the update log, so the replica/pull command won't add them all in again
Re: [9fans] Raspberry Pi image
I'd be curious to know the methodology for producing this port as well. OS porting is something of a black art. I've been doing it for a while (http://www.usenix.org/legacy/publications/library/proceedings/usenix98/invited_talks/miller.ps) and it's not getting any easier. Hardware vendors used to provide meticulously accurate reference manuals describing device behaviour at a register level, along with a programming manual explaining the sequence of operations required for standard procedures like device initialisation and error recovery. Too often nowadays the best you'll get is a sketchy and inaccurate datasheet, and at worst the datasheet will be a trade secret and the only option is to reverse engineer many thousand lines of badly written linux driver. For the Raspberry Pi port, excellent documentation was available at least for the arm cpu. Plan 9 kernels already existed for armv5 and armv7 architectures, so I was mostly able to interpolate between the two to produce the low-level assembly parts of the kernel for the Pi's armv6. Hardware floating support for the kernel had already been done at the Labs for the teg2, and vfp code generation for the 5l linker was straightforward to add, using arm manuals. The rest of the work was creating device drivers, some easily adapted from other Plan 9 instances (eg uart and lcd display), some written from scratch using Broadcom's BCM2835 datasheet (eg sd/mmc). By far the hardest driver was for the usb host adapter, which on the Pi is very non-standard and has no officially available documentation. I couldn't face the prospect of digesting the linux driver (which is huge, unreadable, and at the time was known not to work reliably). Luckily a web search turned up datasheets for some apparently very similar devices, which I was able to work from. Even so, writing and debugging the usb driver accounted for most of the time and effort of the whole project.
Re: [9fans] Raspberry Pi image
So the trade secret thing explains why you don't see a port of Plan 9 for every new and exciting device and board that comes out. It is a shame, but these companies producing things like the GPUs in ARM devices insist on proprietary licences. As far as I can tell, the i.MX6 chip from Freescale is about as open as you can get, I'm just trying to remember where someone said it had an over 1,000 page manual for the chip, and I'm hoping its not this very list, otherwise I will look like a fool! The i.MX6, for that openness reason has been a chip I've been meaning to get, and never gotten around to. The UDOO board has the chip, and integrates an Arduino Due along for the ride. Its reasonably cheap too, although availability is not something I've looked at in a little while, and being one of those Kickstarter things, I don't think availability is a priority past shipping them to backers. I found the blog I was referring to: http://lynxline.com/projects/labs-portintg-inferno-os-to-raspberry-pi/ And it is a detailed read, I've skimmed over his Season 2 with interest. He cites your work regularly. I think you can tell what I'm thinking by mentioning the i.MX6, but I'm not pressuring you to make a port, or even get a board with the chip on it. I just think it would be interesting having Plan 9 on a multicore ARM chip, but as I said, I'm pretty certain its open enough, but please do not quote me - I'd hate to be horribly wrong! Many thanks for your description! On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 9:00 PM, Richard Miller 9f...@hamnavoe.com wrote: I'd be curious to know the methodology for producing this port as well. OS porting is something of a black art. I've been doing it for a while ( http://www.usenix.org/legacy/publications/library/proceedings/usenix98/invited_talks/miller.ps ) and it's not getting any easier. Hardware vendors used to provide meticulously accurate reference manuals describing device behaviour at a register level, along with a programming manual explaining the sequence of operations required for standard procedures like device initialisation and error recovery. Too often nowadays the best you'll get is a sketchy and inaccurate datasheet, and at worst the datasheet will be a trade secret and the only option is to reverse engineer many thousand lines of badly written linux driver. For the Raspberry Pi port, excellent documentation was available at least for the arm cpu. Plan 9 kernels already existed for armv5 and armv7 architectures, so I was mostly able to interpolate between the two to produce the low-level assembly parts of the kernel for the Pi's armv6. Hardware floating support for the kernel had already been done at the Labs for the teg2, and vfp code generation for the 5l linker was straightforward to add, using arm manuals. The rest of the work was creating device drivers, some easily adapted from other Plan 9 instances (eg uart and lcd display), some written from scratch using Broadcom's BCM2835 datasheet (eg sd/mmc). By far the hardest driver was for the usb host adapter, which on the Pi is very non-standard and has no officially available documentation. I couldn't face the prospect of digesting the linux driver (which is huge, unreadable, and at the time was known not to work reliably). Luckily a web search turned up datasheets for some apparently very similar devices, which I was able to work from. Even so, writing and debugging the usb driver accounted for most of the time and effort of the whole project.
Re: [9fans] Raspberry Pi image
On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 3:30 PM, Richard Miller 9f...@hamnavoe.com wrote: I'd be curious to know the methodology for producing this port as well. OS porting is something of a black art. I've been doing it for a while (http://www.usenix.org/legacy/publications/library/proceedings/usenix98/invited_talks/miller.ps) and it's not getting any easier. Hardware vendors used to provide meticulously accurate reference manuals describing device behaviour at a register level, along with a programming manual explaining the sequence of operations required for standard procedures like device initialisation and error recovery. Too often nowadays the best you'll get is a sketchy and inaccurate datasheet, and at worst the datasheet will be a trade secret and the only option is to reverse engineer many thousand lines of badly written linux driver. For the Raspberry Pi port, excellent documentation was available at least for the arm cpu. Plan 9 kernels already existed for armv5 and armv7 architectures, so I was mostly able to interpolate between the two to produce the low-level assembly parts of the kernel for the Pi's armv6. Hardware floating support for the kernel had already been done at the Labs for the teg2, and vfp code generation for the 5l linker was straightforward to add, using arm manuals. The rest of the work was creating device drivers, some easily adapted from other Plan 9 instances (eg uart and lcd display), some written from scratch using Broadcom's BCM2835 datasheet (eg sd/mmc). By far the hardest driver was for the usb host adapter, which on the Pi is very non-standard and has no officially available documentation. I couldn't face the prospect of digesting the linux driver (which is huge, unreadable, and at the time was known not to work reliably). Luckily a web search turned up datasheets for some apparently very similar devices, which I was able to work from. Even so, writing and debugging the usb driver accounted for most of the time and effort of the whole project. Many thanks for the great writeup. -- Ramakrishnan
Re: [9fans] Raspberry Pi image
On Wed Feb 19 05:16:16 EST 2014, edgecombe...@gmail.com wrote: So the trade secret thing explains why you don't see a port of Plan 9 for every new and exciting device and board that comes out. It is a shame, but these companies producing things like the GPUs in ARM devices insist on proprietary licences. unfortunately, a port is still a big time commitment even with all the docs. they get big, and you have to load a large amount of esoteric state into your brain. and debugging the early stages takes esoteric skills. a frequent problem is trying to debug the inital boot, since most of the easy debugging tools like print are often not available. As far as I can tell, the i.MX6 chip from Freescale is about as open as you can get, I'm just trying to remember where someone said it had an over 1,000 page manual for the chip, and I'm hoping its not this very list, otherwise I will look like a fool! The i.MX6, for that openness reason has been a chip I've been meaning to get, and never gotten around to. The UDOO board has the chip, and integrates an Arduino Due along for the ride. Its reasonably cheap too, although availability is not something I've looked at in a little while, and being one of those Kickstarter things, I don't think availability is a priority past shipping them to backers. i think you're right, but i've run across devices which shall remain nameless which claim open source documentation, but when you check there docs against the linux driver you see they have nothing in common. cavet emptor. - erik