Re: [9fans] using plan9 as the only system!
I recommend windows 98 for normal slacking off, but if you want to do real work rc scripting on 9front is quite nice. C might be easier in some cases, but sadly it never got necessary for me to use it regularly, so I never got proficient enough to use it much. I plan to though. Obviously webkit developers won't be using plan9 for development, so pick your sides.
Re: [9fans] running plan9 : an ideal setup?
Hi dante! Thanks a lot! Now I have saved the script. Kind regards, Mats 2014-11-18 23:09 GMT+01:00, dante : > Hi Mats, > > I posted it before; unfortunately the archive doesn't save the attached > files. > Here is the original post: http://9fans.net/archive/2014/08/78. > > Please see the attachment for the script. > > Cheers, > Dante > > On 18.11.2014 22:28, Mats Olsson wrote: >> Hi dante! >> >> I would appreciate it a lot if you could send the "clone script" that >> you used to clone the 9pi imate to a larger SD card. Thanks >> beforehand! >> >> Kind Regards, >> Mats >> >> 2014-11-18 21:29 GMT+01:00, Richard Miller <9f...@hamnavoe.com>: If you must use a rpi, you should strive to use it as a terminal, and like every other Plan 9 terminal it should use the central file server without local storage. >>> >>> That would be my advice too. As an experiment, I set up a 9picpu >>> using >>> the SD card as local storage, working mostly as a secondary smtp and >>> imap >>> server. After a bit less than a year, the SD card suffered a >>> catastrophic >>> failure. When I say catastrophic, I mean I can't find any meaningful >>> data >>> anywhere in the first 120MB or so of /dev/sdM0/data ... just >>> not-quite-random >>> looking garbage. >>> >>> I can't think of any software fault that could wipe out so much of a >>> disk, with no respect for partition boundaries (the dos partition in >>> the first 64MB had not been mounted). But I also know too little >>> about >>> the internals of SD cards to understand how they fail. Maybe some >>> internal logical-to-physical block mapping table went bad? >>> >>> Anyway, it's just one anecdotal data point, but I wouldn't be happy >>> running any plan 9 machine with an SD card as the main filesystem. >>> >>> >>>
Re: [9fans] running plan9 : an ideal setup?
> - Plan9: don't enable periodic snapshots in Fossil to avoid it getting > corrupt This is no longer true, this long standing bug was fixed about a year ago. Can you remember where you saw the documentation saying snapshots where still broken? -Steve
Re: [9fans] running plan9 : an ideal setup?
Dear Steve, I never knew that there was a known bug there: got my frist Plan9 this summer. I enabled snapshots on my Pi this summer and got a corrupt file system within hours. As I promised Richard, I'll try to reproduce the issue and post a bug report to this list. This looks to me as a regression (or some other problem with my system). Kind Regards, Dante On 19.11.2014 10:40, Steve Simon wrote: - Plan9: don't enable periodic snapshots in Fossil to avoid it getting corrupt This is no longer true, this long standing bug was fixed about a year ago. Can you remember where you saw the documentation saying snapshots where still broken? -Steve
Re: [9fans] using plan9 as the only system!
> is there anyone using plan9 as their only system for development activities? Not sure if this counts. I use plan9 at work though most of the code I write is for windows (server apps), Linux and embedded, so Plan9 becomes a glofified IDE for me. Having siad this it is an excellent IDE that is a pleasure to use. I also do occasional Plan9 development and maintain a port of some plan9 tools which allow me to do the equivilent of cpu(1) to a windows box. Wish I had more time for plan9 development. -Steve
Re: [9fans] running plan9 : an ideal setup?
> I never knew that there was a known bug there: > got my frist Plan9 this summer. > I enabled snapshots on my Pi this summer and > got a corrupt file system within hours. Ah, Thanks for the info. I wonder if this is more to do with flash card reliability and the pi than fossil and snapshots. I have been running fossil with snapshots for a year or so now and not had a single crash. I only use my Pi as a terminal so its flash is pretty much readonly. -Steve
Re: [9fans] running plan9 : an ideal setup?
Hi Steve, how often do you snapshot? How large is the SD? I used a 32G SD with hourly snapshots, terminal server. I would sort of rule out the SD reliability. After reinstalling on the corrupt SD with snapshots off, no crashes for months of always-on. Thanks! Dante On 19.11.2014 11:18, Steve Simon wrote: I never knew that there was a known bug there: got my frist Plan9 this summer. I enabled snapshots on my Pi this summer and got a corrupt file system within hours. Ah, Thanks for the info. I wonder if this is more to do with flash card reliability and the pi than fossil and snapshots. I have been running fossil with snapshots for a year or so now and not had a single crash. I only use my Pi as a terminal so its flash is pretty much readonly. -Steve
Re: [9fans] running plan9 : an ideal setup?
> I have been running fossil with snapshots for a year or so now and > not had a single crash. Is there an easy way to determine when a Fossil/Venti service was first deployed? I have a feeling my specific installation is a good few years old and I'm pretty sure any problem that may have arisen could not have been hard to fix. Just as a guideline: ripple# hget 'http://127.1:8000/storage' index=main total arenas=25 active=14 total space=13,224,894,464 used=7,374,207,851 clumps=2,660,366 compressed clumps=2,197,678 data=15,481,985,505 compressed data=7,206,604,793 I don't keep media stuff, so a lot of this reflects changes over time rather than quantity of data. I do have many versions of Go development in place. Lucio. PS: It would seem I rebuilt the system (hoping to add disk capacity) little over a year ago: d-r-xr-xr-x S 0 proxima proxima 0 Jul 22 2013 /dev/sd00 This is a VMware ESX server permanently on.
[9fans] cpu/auth/file servers
I've had some success setting up and using plan9 standalone and I have moved on to trying a networked configuration. Following the instructions I have set up a combined cpu/auth server, and a terminal booting with PXE. When I boot my terminal it asks for my username (no password) and starts rio. I can then access my home directory as read-only. I then run 'cpu', which asks me for a password, and then I can write my files. This doesn't seem right and I think the problem is that I don't really understand how it's supposed to work. The terminal needs to see the cpu's filesystem because that's where its root filesystem is coming from but it shouldn't be able to get to files in /usr/ without a password, surely. I've used X terminals in the past and I suppose I am expecting some sort of XDMCP prompt like that. Can anyone enlighten me or point to the appropriate place in the docs? Thanks very much, Pete
Re: [9fans] cpu/auth/file servers
> When I boot my terminal it asks for my username (no password) and > starts rio. I can then access my home directory as read-only. I then > run 'cpu', which asks me for a password, and then I can write my > files. is your file server in allow mode? or are you really booting a cpu server with nvram? - erik
Re: [9fans] running plan9 : an ideal setup?
On Wed Nov 19 00:36:36 EST 2014, skip.tavakkol...@gmail.com wrote: > i'm a bit paranoid about ether frames jumping the switch somehow, but i > guess that's as likely as local snooping while tftping the boot image that > has the nvram with creds. your switch is really broken if it forwards ethernet frames (no tcp, no ip). off the local segment. it's already a security concern. i've never seen this happen. - erik
Re: [9fans] running plan9 : an ideal setup?
On Wed Nov 19 01:07:43 EST 2014, lu...@proxima.alt.za wrote: > > i'm a bit paranoid about ether frames jumping the switch somehow, but i > > guess that's as likely as local snooping while tftping the boot image that > > has the nvram with creds. > > Well, if you're paranoid, then being able to "write" arbitrary data to > the console is more serious than intercepting a password, at least on > the surface. i'd encourage folks to at least try cec before assuming things about how it works. by the way, at one point i had a hacked up kernel which allowed me to mount a file server over the cec protocol. quite a bit like nonet. - erik
Re: [9fans] cpu/auth/file servers
On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 2:30 PM, erik quanstrom wrote: > is your file server in allow mode? or are you really booting a cpu server > with nvram? The latter (I think) - the same system is the cpu, auth and file server. I've got bootfile=ether0!/386/9pcf nobootprompt=tcp in the terminal's plan9.ini I've been using this document : http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/expanding_your_grid/index.html and I am between 'level 2' and 'level 3' I suppose. Pete
Re: [9fans] running plan9 : an ideal setup?
On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 3:36 PM, erik quanstrom wrote: > by the way, at one point i had a hacked up kernel which allowed me to > mount a file server over the cec protocol. In what situation would this be useful? -- Aram Hăvărneanu
Re: [9fans] DigiLand DL701Q quad core tablet
erik quanstrom writes: >> In short, it's an Arm Cortex A7 with 512MB DDR3, 8GB NAND flash, 7" >> touchscreen, uSD, uUSB AB (OTG), Bluetooth, GPS, and 802.11b/g/n. > > this will require a new kernel, and dealing with some new devices. sounds > interesting, though. Yes, I figured it might require some new device drivers, but why would it require a new kernel? I thought there was already a Plan 9 kernel for Arm Cortex-series processors. That's one of the reasons why I developed such a crush on OMAP. ;)
Re: [9fans] using plan9 as the only system!
drawterm exports its local content to Plan 9 via the /mnt/term namespace; you don't have to have p9p. also, Go code is nearly always platform independent (with no cgo or syscall package). On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 9:19 AM, Lee Fallat wrote: > I think it's important to point out you can use the latest version of > Go on Plan 9 (last time I heard), which makes it a very nice > environment for Go developers. > > AFAIK though people just use plan9port to get Plan 9-like > functionality (Acme usage, primarily). Personally I see no benefits > using Plan 9 for development work unless you are developing for Plan > 9. Yes, namespaces, 9p, and being more unix than unix is great > (awesome really), but you cannot run the majority of software to meet > other demands. > > Just curious, what do you plan on developing, Mayuresh, if you could tell > us? > > On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 12:02 PM, Skip Tavakkolian > wrote: > > and Go. > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 6:01 AM, Lee Fallat > wrote: > >> > >> The only development you could possibly do is anything with C...and a > >> few scripting languages ported through APE. > >> > >> Otherwise, your best bet is to VNC to another computer running a more > >> mainstream OS- but then you might as well just be running said OS. > >> > >> On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 8:54 AM, Mayuresh Kathe > wrote: > >> > is there anyone using plan9 as their only system for development > >> > activities? > >> > while i do have a 'gui' based networked system (a google chromebook), > it > >> > would be nice to immerse myself into the plan9 culture by using the > 'os' > >> > for > >> > everything i need for software tinkering and development. > >> > thanks. > >> > > >> > > > >
Re: [9fans] running plan9 : an ideal setup?
I have 500gb hard disks, mirrored, for fossil and venti. I take ephemeral snapshots every 15 mins, kept for 7 days, and nightly archival snapshots kept forever. this has been running for just over 10 years. though not continuously😄 I have the same setup at wok and at home Steve > On 19 Nov 2014, at 10:27, dante wrote: > > Hi Steve, > > how often do you snapshot? How large is the SD? > I used a 32G SD with hourly snapshots, terminal server. > > I would sort of rule out the SD reliability. > After reinstalling on the corrupt SD with snapshots off, no crashes for > months of always-on. > > Thanks! > Dante > > On 19.11.2014 11:18, Steve Simon wrote: >>> I never knew that there was a known bug there: >>> got my frist Plan9 this summer. >>> I enabled snapshots on my Pi this summer and >>> got a corrupt file system within hours. >> Ah, >> Thanks for the info. >> I wonder if this is more to do with flash card reliability and the pi >> than fossil >> and snapshots. I have been running fossil with snapshots for a year or >> so now and >> not had a single crash. >> I only use my Pi as a terminal so its flash is pretty much readonly. >> -Steve
[9fans] Plan 9/ARM port wishlist: ODROID-U3 or XU3
they're well made, priced right, and fast (e.g. compiling Go on linux on rpi is *very* slow when compared with older odroid-u2 with the same config).
Re: [9fans] Plan 9/ARM port wishlist: ODROID-U3 or XU3
On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 2:22 PM, Skip Tavakkolian wrote: > they're well made, priced right, and fast (e.g. compiling Go on linux on rpi > is *very* slow when compared with older odroid-u2 with the same config). the problem is that samsung doesn't publish the datasheet for its processors without NDA, so the only reference is linux and uboot source code.
Re: [9fans] running plan9 : an ideal setup?
On Tue, 18 Nov 2014 20:29:30 GMT Richard Miller <9f...@hamnavoe.com> wrote: > > I can't think of any software fault that could wipe out so much of a > disk, with no respect for partition boundaries (the dos partition in > the first 64MB had not been mounted). But I also know too little about > the internals of SD cards to understand how they fail. Maybe some > internal logical-to-physical block mapping table went bad? One possibility: Many SD cards don't implement wear leveling. Without it, if the system is hitting some speicific blocks over and over again, the card will become unusable fast. I was using a $10 USB thumb drive as a boot disk for my FreeBSD based fileserver and forgot to mount it readonly (and unix syncs every 30 seconds to all r/w fs). It was toast within a year. On the raspi I've had good experience with the better quality SanDisk SD cards. I even have venti running on one for the past 6 months -- as an experiment, so I don't care if the card dies!
Re: [9fans] Plan 9/ARM port wishlist: ODROID-U3 or XU3
Interesting. Looks based on an Exynos. I've already started kernel support for this (I even have a booting kernel, though it is very much a work in progress). Work has been hectic this year, so I haven't had a chance to get back to it since February. I've posted the code online, though nothing is documented and most of it is largely still in my head. https://code.google.com/p/9chrome/source/browse/#hg%2Fsys%2Fsrc%2F9%2Fexynos FWIW, there was a fair bit of work done in 5[al] that's also contained in this source tree. Steve On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 1:35 PM, minux wrote: > On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 2:22 PM, Skip Tavakkolian > wrote: >> they're well made, priced right, and fast (e.g. compiling Go on linux on rpi >> is *very* slow when compared with older odroid-u2 with the same config). > the problem is that samsung doesn't publish the datasheet for its processors > without NDA, so the only reference is linux and uboot source code. >
Re: [9fans] running plan9 : an ideal setup?
Richard Miller <9f...@hamnavoe.com> writes: > After a bit less than a year, the SD card suffered a catastrophic > failure. When I say catastrophic, I mean I can't find any meaningful > data anywhere in the first 120MB or so of /dev/sdM0/data ... just > not-quite-random looking garbage. Could have been just the normal "SD card used up" situation. They don't last forever, and to get a reasonable life time you have to a) not buy too cheap, and b) not write to it more than you have to. Under Unix, point b means mounting with noatime and nodiratime options. Some specifics here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wear_leveling -tih -- It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong. -Richard Feynman
Re: [9fans] running plan9 : an ideal setup?
I can't speak for Erik's cec-as-nonet setup specifically, but I've wanted nonet (or an equivalent) many, many times. Networks are fast enough that tcp/ip overhead isn't really something that hurts in most cases, but it does exist. Also, I really want to exercise the cross-network parts of Plan 9. > On Nov 19, 2014, at 10:34 , Aram Hăvărneanu wrote: > > On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 3:36 PM, erik quanstrom wrote: >> by the way, at one point i had a hacked up kernel which allowed me to >> mount a file server over the cec protocol. > > In what situation would this be useful? > > -- > Aram Hăvărneanu
Re: [9fans] running plan9 : an ideal setup?
> On Nov 19, 2014, at 5:36 , lu...@proxima.alt.za wrote: > > Is there an easy way to determine when a Fossil/Venti service was > first deployed? I have a feeling my specific installation is a good > few years old and I'm pretty sure any problem that may have arisen > could not have been hard to fix. > > Just as a guideline: > > ripple# hget 'http://127.1:8000/storage' Ask for /index instead of /storage. Each arena line will give you a "created=xxx" tag, where "xxx" is a timestamp. You could do an awk script to give you growth over time, if you like.
Re: [9fans] running plan9 : an ideal setup?
> Ask for /index instead of /storage. Each arena line will give you a > "created=xxx" tag, where "xxx" is a timestamp. You could do an awk > script to give you growth over time, if you like. I looked for that, but I must have managed to overlook these fields. Here is the first: Sat Jul 31 14:14:12 SAT 2010 Of course, the question was about Fossil's reliability and I'm sure some will expect a level that is much better attained by backing Fossil with Venti, no matter how robust Fossil may be. Lucio. - This email has been scanned by the MxScan Email Security System. -
