Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9

[a . regenfuss]

Hm, that looks interesting. I like what that they are trying to make plan 9 a 
bit
more accessible by using familiar programs and closing the gap between modern 
unix
and the plan 9 ideas. However, I think I'll rather keep vanilla plan 9 or 9front
(rio is still better than X11, sorry).
But nontheless, it's a great idea and I hope they keep up the great work.

adrian
 

Gesendet: Sonntag, 26. Juli 2015 um 00:15 Uhr
Von: "Axel Belinfante" 
An: "Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs" <9fans@9fans.net>
Betreff: Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9

I couldn’t resist looking, and found in http://www.osnews.com/comments/28699

"Harvey is an effort to get the Plan 9 code working with gcc and clang”.

So, in a way it seems to be a port of Plan 9.
More details, including the feature list below, are at 
http://harvey-os.org[http://harvey-os.org]

Features

• AMD 64 bit
• Modern, simplified syscall system
• GCC toolchain means you can use gdb(!)
• Compile in Linux or OSX using Harvey's headers and libs, no need to change 
anything else
• Fast compilation of the whole system
• All Plan9 userland apps available
• Plans to add X11 with rio-like multiplexing, tty driver, new fileserver, 
native toolchain and more

I’m intrigued by the “compile … using Harvey's headers and libs, no need to 
change anything else” —
I guess that means that it will be easy to “port” stuff to Harvey?

The team list contains names well-known on this list...

I must say, it looks quite interesting, worth checking out.

Axel.
 

On 25 Jul 2015, at 17:58, Ryan Gonzalez  
wrote: 

No clue. I'm guessing it's heavily inspired by Plan 9.
 
On July 25, 2015 3:34:13 AM CDT, "st...@quintile.net[st...@quintile.net]" 
 wrote:
not sure what Harvey is... is it just plan9 ported to build on gcc?
 
if so does gcc run under Harvey?

does gcc run under plan9 now?
 
Steve
 
 
 
On 25 Jul 2015, at 01:43, Ryan Gonzalez  
wrote:
 
https://medium.com/this-is-not-a-monad-tutorial/harvey-an-operating-system-with-plan-9-s-shadow-3081414e5f0b[https://medium.com/this-is-not-a-monad-tutorial/harvey-an-operating-system-with-plan-9-s-shadow-3081414e5f0b]

I'm not affiliated with this whatsoever; I just saw it on Reddit and found it 
interesting.

I found this part particularly neat:

> We are working in ANSI POSIX environment to have most of well known tools and 
> programs that programmers or end users expects to have in a modern operating 
> system. Things that for traditional Plan 9 would be very difficult to have.

--
Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
--
Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9

[st...@quintile.net]

if there was a way to run apt-get on plan9 and run standard Linux tools, like 
Firefox and thunderbird, and gcc then I would be a very happy old programmer.

I did some work on extending cinap's amazing linuxemu some years ago but modern 
Linux has evolved to the point where even this becomes very painful. a bsdemu 
might be easier, but I haven't looked into that.

just being able to run gcc in arm/thumb cross mode would be great. I know kenc 
will build arm but I need to keep source compatibility with the rest of the 
team, who use gcc - on windows!

it is still a battle to keep plan9 running at work, though so far, even if I 
haven't won, I haven't lost either.

-Steve




> On 26 Jul 2015, at 10:35, a.regenf...@gmx.de wrote:
> 
> 
> Hm, that looks interesting. I like what that they are trying to make plan 9 a 
> bit
> more accessible by using familiar programs and closing the gap between modern 
> unix
> and the plan 9 ideas. However, I think I'll rather keep vanilla plan 9 or 
> 9front
> (rio is still better than X11, sorry).
> But nontheless, it's a great idea and I hope they keep up the great work.
> 
> adrian
>  
> 
> Gesendet: Sonntag, 26. Juli 2015 um 00:15 Uhr
> Von: "Axel Belinfante" 
> An: "Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs" <9fans@9fans.net>
> Betreff: Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9
> 
> I couldn’t resist looking, and found in http://www.osnews.com/comments/28699
> 
> "Harvey is an effort to get the Plan 9 code working with gcc and clang”.
> 
> So, in a way it seems to be a port of Plan 9.
> More details, including the feature list below, are at 
> http://harvey-os.org[http://harvey-os.org]
> 
> Features
> 
> • AMD 64 bit
> • Modern, simplified syscall system
> • GCC toolchain means you can use gdb(!)
> • Compile in Linux or OSX using Harvey's headers and libs, no need to change 
> anything else
> • Fast compilation of the whole system
> • All Plan9 userland apps available
> • Plans to add X11 with rio-like multiplexing, tty driver, new fileserver, 
> native toolchain and more
> 
> I’m intrigued by the “compile … using Harvey's headers and libs, no need to 
> change anything else” —
> I guess that means that it will be easy to “port” stuff to Harvey?
> 
> The team list contains names well-known on this list...
> 
> I must say, it looks quite interesting, worth checking out.
> 
> Axel.
>  
> 
> On 25 Jul 2015, at 17:58, Ryan Gonzalez  
> wrote: 
> 
> No clue. I'm guessing it's heavily inspired by Plan 9.
>  
> On July 25, 2015 3:34:13 AM CDT, "st...@quintile.net[st...@quintile.net]" 
>  wrote:
> not sure what Harvey is... is it just plan9 ported to build on gcc?
>  
> if so does gcc run under Harvey?
> 
> does gcc run under plan9 now?
>  
> Steve
>  
>  
>  
> On 25 Jul 2015, at 01:43, Ryan Gonzalez  
> wrote:
>  
> https://medium.com/this-is-not-a-monad-tutorial/harvey-an-operating-system-with-plan-9-s-shadow-3081414e5f0b[https://medium.com/this-is-not-a-monad-tutorial/harvey-an-operating-system-with-plan-9-s-shadow-3081414e5f0b]
> 
> I'm not affiliated with this whatsoever; I just saw it on Reddit and found it 
> interesting.
> 
> I found this part particularly neat:
> 
>> We are working in ANSI POSIX environment to have most of well known tools 
>> and programs that programmers or end users expects to have in a modern 
>> operating system. Things that for traditional Plan 9 would be very difficult 
>> to have.
> 
> --
> Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
> --
> Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9

[Prof Brucee]

i was gonna suggest as per rob's post that chan.c was a good place to check
for gcc introduced code. anyone actually going to diff the code or is it
all going to be speculation?

brucee

On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 9:01 PM, st...@quintile.net 
wrote:

>
> if there was a way to run apt-get on plan9 and run standard Linux tools,
> like Firefox and thunderbird, and gcc then I would be a very happy old
> programmer.
>
> I did some work on extending cinap's amazing linuxemu some years ago but
> modern Linux has evolved to the point where even this becomes very painful.
> a bsdemu might be easier, but I haven't looked into that.
>
> just being able to run gcc in arm/thumb cross mode would be great. I know
> kenc will build arm but I need to keep source compatibility with the rest
> of the team, who use gcc - on windows!
>
> it is still a battle to keep plan9 running at work, though so far, even if
> I haven't won, I haven't lost either.
>
> -Steve
>
>
>
>
> > On 26 Jul 2015, at 10:35, a.regenf...@gmx.de wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hm, that looks interesting. I like what that they are trying to make
> plan 9 a bit
> > more accessible by using familiar programs and closing the gap between
> modern unix
> > and the plan 9 ideas. However, I think I'll rather keep vanilla plan 9
> or 9front
> > (rio is still better than X11, sorry).
> > But nontheless, it's a great idea and I hope they keep up the great work.
> >
> > adrian
> >
> >
> > Gesendet: Sonntag, 26. Juli 2015 um 00:15 Uhr
> > Von: "Axel Belinfante" 
> > An: "Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs" <9fans@9fans.net>
> > Betreff: Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9
> >
> > I couldn’t resist looking, and found in
> http://www.osnews.com/comments/28699
> >
> > "Harvey is an effort to get the Plan 9 code working with gcc and clang”.
> >
> > So, in a way it seems to be a port of Plan 9.
> > More details, including the feature list below, are at
> http://harvey-os.org[http://harvey-os.org]
> >
> > Features
> >
> > • AMD 64 bit
> > • Modern, simplified syscall system
> > • GCC toolchain means you can use gdb(!)
> > • Compile in Linux or OSX using Harvey's headers and libs, no need to
> change anything else
> > • Fast compilation of the whole system
> > • All Plan9 userland apps available
> > • Plans to add X11 with rio-like multiplexing, tty driver, new
> fileserver, native toolchain and more
> >
> > I’m intrigued by the “compile … using Harvey's headers and libs, no need
> to change anything else” —
> > I guess that means that it will be easy to “port” stuff to Harvey?
> >
> > The team list contains names well-known on this list...
> >
> > I must say, it looks quite interesting, worth checking out.
> >
> > Axel.
> >
> >
> > On 25 Jul 2015, at 17:58, Ryan Gonzalez  rym...@gmail.com]> wrote:
> >
> > No clue. I'm guessing it's heavily inspired by Plan 9.
> >
> > On July 25, 2015 3:34:13 AM CDT, "st...@quintile.net[st...@quintile.net]"
>  wrote:
> > not sure what Harvey is... is it just plan9 ported to build on gcc?
> >
> > if so does gcc run under Harvey?
> >
> > does gcc run under plan9 now?
> >
> > Steve
> >
> >
> >
> > On 25 Jul 2015, at 01:43, Ryan Gonzalez  rym...@gmail.com]> wrote:
> >
> >
> https://medium.com/this-is-not-a-monad-tutorial/harvey-an-operating-system-with-plan-9-s-shadow-3081414e5f0b[https://medium.com/this-is-not-a-monad-tutorial/harvey-an-operating-system-with-plan-9-s-shadow-3081414e5f0b]
> >
> > I'm not affiliated with this whatsoever; I just saw it on Reddit and
> found it interesting.
> >
> > I found this part particularly neat:
> >
> >> We are working in ANSI POSIX environment to have most of well known
> tools and programs that programmers or end users expects to have in a
> modern operating system. Things that for traditional Plan 9 would be very
> difficult to have.
> >
> > --
> > Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
> > --
> > Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>
>

Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9

[Anthony Martin]

Prof Brucee  once said:
> i was gonna suggest as per rob's post that chan.c was a good place to check
> for gcc introduced code. anyone actually going to diff the code or is it
> all going to be speculation?

I looked. The diff is basically s/uvlong/uint64_t/; s/MOVL/movl/ and the
addition of some gopher droppings.

  Anthony

Re: [9fans] arm64 port?

[Aram Hăvărneanu]

Maybe I am working on a port to X-Gene, or maybe I am not.

-- 
Aram Hăvărneanu

Re: [9fans] arm64 port?

[Kurt H Maier]

Quoting Aram Hăvărneanu :


Maybe I am working on a port to X-Gene, or maybe I am not.


In accordance with 9fans tradition, I will interpret this to
mean that full support is utterly complete, elegant, and
bug-free.  In the future, when anyone asks for advice on
replicating this work, I'll point out that you did it
better than they ever could, and suggest they email you
about it.

I trust you will refuse to reply to these inquiries.

khm

Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9

[erik quanstrom]

just speaking for myself, I found the fact that plan 9 was a self contained thing to be a must have.  i don't consider the gcc toolchain to be a feature.  
if "fast compilation" is a feature over plan 9, I'd like to see some numbers.
- erik

On Jul 25, 2015 3:15 PM, Axel Belinfante  wrote:I couldn’t resist looking, and found in http://www.osnews.com/comments/28699	"Harvey is an effort to get the Plan 9 code working with gcc and clang”.So, in a way it seems to be a port of Plan 9.More details, including the feature list below, are at http://harvey-os.org		Features	• AMD 64 bit	• Modern, simplified syscall system	• GCC toolchain means you can use gdb(!)	• Compile in Linux or OSX using Harvey's headers and libs, no need to change anything else	• Fast compilation of the whole system	• All Plan9 userland apps available	• Plans to add X11 with rio-like multiplexing, tty driver, new fileserver, native toolchain and moreI’m intrigued by the “compile … using Harvey's headers and libs, no need to change anything else” —I guess that means that it will be easy to “port” stuff to Harvey?The team list contains names well-known on this list...I must say, it looks quite interesting, worth checking out.Axel.On 25 Jul 2015, at 17:58, Ryan Gonzalez  wrote:
No clue. I'm guessing it's heavily inspired by Plan 9.On July 25, 2015 3:34:13 AM CDT, "steve@quintile.net"  wrote:
not sure what Harvey is... is it just plan9 ported to build on gcc?if so does gcc run under Harvey?does gcc run under plan9 now?SteveOn 25 Jul 2015, at 01:43, Ryan Gonzalez  wrote:https://medium.com/this-is-not-a-monad-tutorial/harvey-an-operating-system-with-plan-9-s-shadow-3081414e5f0b

I'm not affiliated with this whatsoever; I just saw it on Reddit and found it interesting.

I found this part particularly neat:

> We are working in ANSI POSIX environment to have most of well known tools and programs that programmers or end users expects to have in a modern operating system. Things that for traditional Plan 9 would be very difficult to have.

-- 
Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
-- 
Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9

[hiro]

Who claimed fast compilation was a motive?
>From what I understand this is all about being able to use gdb for debugging.

It makes sense to me, but it might still be subjective.
If you care I will explain my experience:

Some longer time ago I tried gdb for disassembling some secret binary,
but quickly gave up cause of the complex interface and reverted to
objdump instead. I wasted a lot of time and that made me hate gdb a
lot.

Now, much later I started using gdb again, cause as long as it has
access to the source analyzing coredumps is very easy. It's a better
workflow than my printf() debugging, because the Makefiles of the
project I'm working on are so complex and broken that everybody avoids
compiling (takes too long).
I have seen many complaints in Ron's commit logs about makefiles, too.
I'm fairly certain that for Harvey and Akaros they're pretty much
forced just like me into a coredump-driven development workflow.

tldr: gcc is needed so that we can use gdb so that we don't have to
compile as often so that we can fix bugs faster.

On 7/26/15, erik quanstrom  wrote:
> just speaking for myself, I found the fact that plan 9 was a self contained
> thing to be a must have.  i don't consider the gcc toolchain to be a
> feature.
>
> if "fast compilation" is a feature over plan 9, I'd like to see some
> numbers.
>
> - erik
>
> On Jul 25, 2015 3:15 PM, Axel Belinfante
> <[?&cs=wh&v=b&to=axel.belinfa...@utwente.nl]axel.belinfa...@utwente.nl>
> wrote:
>>
>> I couldn’t resist looking, and found
>> in 
>> [http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.osnews.com%2Fcomments%2F28699&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNGHKFWanYoFNYbSy6In7LAXtMi-tg]http://www.osnews.com/comments/28699
>>
>> "Harvey is an effort to get the Plan 9 code working with gcc and clang”.
>>
>> So, in a way it seems to be a port of Plan 9.
>>
>> More details, including the feature list below, are
>> at 
>> [http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fharvey-os.org&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNErZ4XfGFvsgbhV-uqEiG8K2pSdYQ]http://harvey-os.org
>>
>> Features
>>
>> • AMD 64 bit
>> • Modern, simplified syscall system
>> • GCC toolchain means you can use gdb(!)
>> • Compile in Linux or OSX using Harvey's headers and libs, no need to
>> change anything else
>> • Fast compilation of the whole system
>> • All Plan9 userland apps available
>> • Plans to add X11 with rio-like multiplexing, tty driver, new fileserver,
>> native toolchain and more
>>
>> I’m intrigued by the “compile … using Harvey's headers and libs, no need
>> to change anything else” —
>> I guess that means that it will be easy to “port” stuff to Harvey?
>>
>> The team list contains names well-known on this list...
>>
>> I must say, it looks quite interesting, worth checking out.
>>
>> Axel.
>>
>>> On 25 Jul 2015, at 17:58, Ryan Gonzalez
>>> <[?&cs=wh&v=b&to=rym...@gmail.com]rym...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>> No clue. I'm guessing it's heavily inspired by Plan 9.
>>
>> On July 25, 2015 3:34:13 AM CDT,
>> "[?&cs=wh&v=b&to=st...@quintile.net]st...@quintile.net"
>> <[?&cs=wh&v=b&to=st...@quintile.net]st...@quintile.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> not sure what Harvey is... is it just plan9 ported to build on gcc?
>>>
>>> if so does gcc run under Harvey?
>>>
>>> does gcc run under plan9 now?
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 25 Jul 2015, at 01:43, Ryan Gonzalez
>>> <[?&cs=wh&v=b&to=rym...@gmail.com]rym...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 [https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fmedium.com%2Fthis-is-not-a-monad-tutorial%2Fharvey-an-operating-system-with-plan-9-s-shadow-3081414e5f0b&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNFKZSymwu8nNoZ6I7kp6PyVvp9A1g]https://medium.com/this-is-not-a-monad-tutorial/harvey-an-operating-system-with-plan-9-s-shadow-3081414e5f0b

 I'm not affiliated with this whatsoever; I just saw it on Reddit and
 found it interesting.

 I found this part particularly neat:

 > We are working in ANSI POSIX environment to have most of well known
 > tools and programs that programmers or end users expects to have in a
 > modern operating system. Things that for traditional Plan 9 would be
 > very difficult to have.

 --
 Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>>
>

Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9

[Charles Forsyth]

On 26 July 2015 at 18:33, erik quanstrom  wrote:

> if "fast compilation" is a feature over plan 9, I'd like to see some
> numbers.


That wasn't the point, I think. The mention of speed was rather that on
fast enough hardware the speed with gcc isn't that bad,
so you can use that. (That misses another point, but that's not relevant
here.)

The aim in using gcc wasn't the speed, but to produce an environment that
was compatible with all the existing software
(not POSIX -- although it says that -- being "POSIX" is both too little and
too much).

Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9

[Ryan Gonzalez]

You forgot about my favorite use of gdb:

$ gdb --args a b c
gdb> run
# wait for segfault
gdb> bt
...
gdb> quit


On July 26, 2015 12:54:34 PM CDT, hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Who claimed fast compilation was a motive?
>From what I understand this is all about being able to use gdb for
>debugging.
>
>It makes sense to me, but it might still be subjective.
>If you care I will explain my experience:
>
>Some longer time ago I tried gdb for disassembling some secret binary,
>but quickly gave up cause of the complex interface and reverted to
>objdump instead. I wasted a lot of time and that made me hate gdb a
>lot.
>
>Now, much later I started using gdb again, cause as long as it has
>access to the source analyzing coredumps is very easy. It's a better
>workflow than my printf() debugging, because the Makefiles of the
>project I'm working on are so complex and broken that everybody avoids
>compiling (takes too long).
>I have seen many complaints in Ron's commit logs about makefiles, too.
>I'm fairly certain that for Harvey and Akaros they're pretty much
>forced just like me into a coredump-driven development workflow.
>
>tldr: gcc is needed so that we can use gdb so that we don't have to
>compile as often so that we can fix bugs faster.
>
>On 7/26/15, erik quanstrom  wrote:
>> just speaking for myself, I found the fact that plan 9 was a self
>contained
>> thing to be a must have.  i don't consider the gcc toolchain to be a
>> feature.
>>
>> if "fast compilation" is a feature over plan 9, I'd like to see some
>> numbers.
>>
>> - erik
>>
>> On Jul 25, 2015 3:15 PM, Axel Belinfante
>>
><[?&cs=wh&v=b&to=axel.belinfa...@utwente.nl]axel.belinfa...@utwente.nl>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I couldn’t resist looking, and found
>>>
>in 
>[http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.osnews.com%2Fcomments%2F28699&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNGHKFWanYoFNYbSy6In7LAXtMi-tg]http://www.osnews.com/comments/28699
>>>
>>> "Harvey is an effort to get the Plan 9 code working with gcc and
>clang”.
>>>
>>> So, in a way it seems to be a port of Plan 9.
>>>
>>> More details, including the feature list below, are
>>>
>at 
>[http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fharvey-os.org&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNErZ4XfGFvsgbhV-uqEiG8K2pSdYQ]http://harvey-os.org
>>>
>>> Features
>>>
>>> • AMD 64 bit
>>> • Modern, simplified syscall system
>>> • GCC toolchain means you can use gdb(!)
>>> • Compile in Linux or OSX using Harvey's headers and libs, no need
>to
>>> change anything else
>>> • Fast compilation of the whole system
>>> • All Plan9 userland apps available
>>> • Plans to add X11 with rio-like multiplexing, tty driver, new
>fileserver,
>>> native toolchain and more
>>>
>>> I’m intrigued by the “compile … using Harvey's headers and libs, no
>need
>>> to change anything else” —
>>> I guess that means that it will be easy to “port” stuff to Harvey?
>>>
>>> The team list contains names well-known on this list...
>>>
>>> I must say, it looks quite interesting, worth checking out.
>>>
>>> Axel.
>>>
 On 25 Jul 2015, at 17:58, Ryan Gonzalez
 <[?&cs=wh&v=b&to=rym...@gmail.com]rym...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>> No clue. I'm guessing it's heavily inspired by Plan 9.
>>>
>>> On July 25, 2015 3:34:13 AM CDT,
>>> "[?&cs=wh&v=b&to=st...@quintile.net]st...@quintile.net"
>>> <[?&cs=wh&v=b&to=st...@quintile.net]st...@quintile.net> wrote:

 not sure what Harvey is... is it just plan9 ported to build on gcc?

 if so does gcc run under Harvey?

 does gcc run under plan9 now?

 Steve




 On 25 Jul 2015, at 01:43, Ryan Gonzalez
 <[?&cs=wh&v=b&to=rym...@gmail.com]rym...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>[https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fmedium.com%2Fthis-is-not-a-monad-tutorial%2Fharvey-an-operating-system-with-plan-9-s-shadow-3081414e5f0b&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNFKZSymwu8nNoZ6I7kp6PyVvp9A1g]https://medium.com/this-is-not-a-monad-tutorial/harvey-an-operating-system-with-plan-9-s-shadow-3081414e5f0b
>
> I'm not affiliated with this whatsoever; I just saw it on Reddit
>and
> found it interesting.
>
> I found this part particularly neat:
>
> > We are working in ANSI POSIX environment to have most of well
>known
> > tools and programs that programmers or end users expects to have
>in a
> > modern operating system. Things that for traditional Plan 9
>would be
> > very difficult to have.
>
> --
> Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>>>
>>

-- 
Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9

[Charles Forsyth]

On 26 July 2015 at 18:58, Charles Forsyth  wrote:

> an environment that was compatible with all the existing software


although that's rapidly becoming incompatible with itself. for instance, in
an unrelated forum, someone observes:

"clang provides __attribute__((overloadable)), which enables a limited
version of C++-style name-mangling based polymorphism, so that you don't
have to write a _Generic wrapper for each function."

Re: [9fans] Stick

[Sergey Zhilkin]

To expensive for me, And, imo, device is useless
- no wired network
- no NORMAL external storage
- iNtel inside :)

As a terminal it is far more expensive then Rpi, as diskless cpu it useless
too.

Useless :) for me

P.S.: Yes my home mac uses Intel CPU, but it is Apple ! :)

2015-07-26 0:37 GMT+03:00 Prof Brucee :

> AUD$229
>
> On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 7:02 AM, Sergey Zhilkin 
> wrote:
>
>> How much they cost ?
>>
>>
>> http://www.cnx-software.com/2014/10/15/meego-t01-hdmi-tv-stick-supports-android-windows-8-1-and-ubuntulinux/
>> - the same
>>
>> I think they are too HOT :) And 64bit "CPU" comes with 32bit Windows. Lol
>>
>> 2015-07-25 0:31 GMT+03:00 Prof Brucee :
>>
>>> Anyone with P9 experience on the Intel Compute Stick (aka STK1A32WFC)?
>>> It's a lot of PC for such a small cost and form factor. I think it was only
>>> released in oz last week. I have ordered one.
>>>
>>> brucee
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> С наилучшими пожеланиями
>> Жилкин Сергей
>> With best regards
>> Zhilkin Sergey
>>
>
>


-- 
С наилучшими пожеланиями
Жилкин Сергей
With best regards
Zhilkin Sergey

Re: [9fans] Stick

[Ryan Gonzalez]

On July 26, 2015 1:32:35 PM CDT, Sergey Zhilkin  wrote:
>To expensive for me, And, imo, device is useless
>- no wired network
>- no NORMAL external storage
>- iNtel inside :)
>
>As a terminal it is far more expensive then Rpi, as diskless cpu it
>useless
>too.
>
>Useless :) for me
>
>P.S.: Yes my home mac uses Intel CPU, but it is Apple ! :)

Mac? TRAITOR! :)

>
>2015-07-26 0:37 GMT+03:00 Prof Brucee :
>
>> AUD$229
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 7:02 AM, Sergey Zhilkin 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> How much they cost ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>http://www.cnx-software.com/2014/10/15/meego-t01-hdmi-tv-stick-supports-android-windows-8-1-and-ubuntulinux/
>>> - the same
>>>
>>> I think they are too HOT :) And 64bit "CPU" comes with 32bit
>Windows. Lol
>>>
>>> 2015-07-25 0:31 GMT+03:00 Prof Brucee :
>>>
 Anyone with P9 experience on the Intel Compute Stick (aka
>STK1A32WFC)?
 It's a lot of PC for such a small cost and form factor. I think it
>was only
 released in oz last week. I have ordered one.

 brucee

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> С наилучшими пожеланиями
>>> Жилкин Сергей
>>> With best regards
>>> Zhilkin Sergey
>>>
>>
>>

-- 
Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [9fans] Stick

[Prof Brucee]

A bit harsh and head-up-the-arse-ish. I'm willing to play with this device.
Enjoy your Mac.

brucee

On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 5:32 AM, Ryan Gonzalez  wrote:

>
>
> On July 26, 2015 1:32:35 PM CDT, Sergey Zhilkin 
> wrote:
> >To expensive for me, And, imo, device is useless
> >- no wired network
> >- no NORMAL external storage
> >- iNtel inside :)
> >
> >As a terminal it is far more expensive then Rpi, as diskless cpu it
> >useless
> >too.
> >
> >Useless :) for me
> >
> >P.S.: Yes my home mac uses Intel CPU, but it is Apple ! :)
>
> Mac? TRAITOR! :)
>
> >
> >2015-07-26 0:37 GMT+03:00 Prof Brucee :
> >
> >> AUD$229
> >>
> >> On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 7:02 AM, Sergey Zhilkin 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> How much they cost ?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> http://www.cnx-software.com/2014/10/15/meego-t01-hdmi-tv-stick-supports-android-windows-8-1-and-ubuntulinux/
> >>> - the same
> >>>
> >>> I think they are too HOT :) And 64bit "CPU" comes with 32bit
> >Windows. Lol
> >>>
> >>> 2015-07-25 0:31 GMT+03:00 Prof Brucee :
> >>>
>  Anyone with P9 experience on the Intel Compute Stick (aka
> >STK1A32WFC)?
>  It's a lot of PC for such a small cost and form factor. I think it
> >was only
>  released in oz last week. I have ordered one.
> 
>  brucee
> 
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> С наилучшими пожеланиями
> >>> Жилкин Сергей
> >>> With best regards
> >>> Zhilkin Sergey
> >>>
> >>
> >>
>
> --
> Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>
>

Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9

[Prof Brucee]

I've never understood the fascination with gdb. To me it's just turgid.

I like saying "acid has always worked for me" because it's a fun thing to
say but not only is it painlessly useful it is programmable. stk and leak
are pretty neat.

brucee

On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 5:52 AM, erik quanstrom 
wrote:

> hmm.  neither db nor acid work for you?  I've found acid to be much easier
> to use than gdb, but on my plan 9 projects a few prints are quicker for me
> than messing with a debugger.
>
> unless harvey has added core dumps to plan 9, then post trap debugging
> would be via broken processes not core dumps.
>
> why are you forced into core dump driven development.  that makes it
> should like the environment isn't an effective on for development.
>
> - erik
>
>
> On Jul 26, 2015 10:54 AM, hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Who claimed fast compilation was a motive?
> > From what I understand this is all about being able to use gdb for
> debugging.
> >
> > It makes sense to me, but it might still be subjective.
> > If you care I will explain my experience:
> >
> > Some longer time ago I tried gdb for disassembling some secret binary,
> > but quickly gave up cause of the complex interface and reverted to
> > objdump instead. I wasted a lot of time and that made me hate gdb a
> > lot.
> >
> > Now, much later I started using gdb again, cause as long as it has
> > access to the source analyzing coredumps is very easy. It's a better
> > workflow than my printf() debugging, because the Makefiles of the
> > project I'm working on are so complex and broken that everybody avoids
> > compiling (takes too long).
> > I have seen many complaints in Ron's commit logs about makefiles, too.
> > I'm fairly certain that for Harvey and Akaros they're pretty much
> > forced just like me into a coredump-driven development workflow.
> >
> > tldr: gcc is needed so that we can use gdb so that we don't have to
> > compile as often so that we can fix bugs faster.
> >
> > On 7/26/15, erik quanstrom  wrote:
> > > just speaking for myself, I found the fact that plan 9 was a self
> contained
> > > thing to be a must have.  i don't consider the gcc toolchain to be a
> > > feature.
> > >
> > > if "fast compilation" is a feature over plan 9, I'd like to see some
> > > numbers.
> > >
> > > - erik
> > >
> > > On Jul 25, 2015 3:15 PM, Axel Belinfante
> > > <[?&cs=wh&v=b&to=axel.belinfa...@utwente.nl]axel.belinfa...@utwente.nl
> >
> > > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I couldn’t resist looking, and found
> > >> in [
> http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.osnews.com%2Fcomments%2F28699&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNGHKFWanYoFNYbSy6In7LAXtMi-tg]http://www.osnews.com/comments/28699
> > >>
> > >> "Harvey is an effort to get the Plan 9 code working with gcc and
> clang”.
> > >>
> > >> So, in a way it seems to be a port of Plan 9.
> > >>
> > >> More details, including the feature list below, are
> > >> at [
> http://www.google.com/url?q=http%3A%2F%2Fharvey-os.org&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNErZ4XfGFvsgbhV-uqEiG8K2pSdYQ]http://harvey-os.org
> > >>
> > >> Features
> > >>
> > >> • AMD 64 bit
> > >> • Modern, simplified syscall system
> > >> • GCC toolchain means you can use gdb(!)
> > >> • Compile in Linux or OSX using Harvey's headers and libs, no need to
> > >> change anything else
> > >> • Fast compilation of the whole system
> > >> • All Plan9 userland apps available
> > >> • Plans to add X11 with rio-like multiplexing, tty driver, new
> fileserver,
> > >> native toolchain and more
> > >>
> > >> I’m intrigued by the “compile … using Harvey's headers and libs, no
> need
> > >> to change anything else” —
> > >> I guess that means that it will be easy to “port” stuff to Harvey?
> > >>
> > >> The team list contains names well-known on this list...
> > >>
> > >> I must say, it looks quite interesting, worth checking out.
> > >>
> > >> Axel.
> > >>
> > >>> On 25 Jul 2015, at 17:58, Ryan Gonzalez
> > >>> <[?&cs=wh&v=b&to=rym...@gmail.com]rym...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >> No clue. I'm guessing it's heavily inspired by Plan 9.
> > >>
> > >> On July 25, 2015 3:34:13 AM CDT,
> > >> "[?&cs=wh&v=b&to=st...@quintile.net]st...@quintile.net"
> > >> <[?&cs=wh&v=b&to=st...@quintile.net]st...@quintile.net> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> not sure what Harvey is... is it just plan9 ported to build on gcc?
> > >>>
> > >>> if so does gcc run under Harvey?
> > >>>
> > >>> does gcc run under plan9 now?
> > >>>
> > >>> Steve
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On 25 Jul 2015, at 01:43, Ryan Gonzalez
> > >>> <[?&cs=wh&v=b&to=rym...@gmail.com]rym...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>
> >  [
> https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fmedium.com%2Fthis-is-not-a-monad-tutorial%2Fharvey-an-operating-system-with-plan-9-s-shadow-3081414e5f0b&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNFKZSymwu8nNoZ6I7kp6PyVvp9A1g]https://medium.com/this-is-not-a-monad-tutorial/harvey-an-operating-system-with-plan-9-s-shadow-3081414e5f0b
> > 
> >  I'm not affiliated with this whatsoever; I just saw it on Reddit and
> >  found

Re: [9fans] Stick

[Ryan Gonzalez]

On July 26, 2015 2:48:33 PM CDT, Prof Brucee  wrote:
>A bit harsh and head-up-the-arse-ish. I'm willing to play with this
>device.

Harsh? I put a smiley face to make it obvious it was a joke...

>Enjoy your Mac.
>
>brucee
>
>On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 5:32 AM, Ryan Gonzalez 
>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On July 26, 2015 1:32:35 PM CDT, Sergey Zhilkin 
>> wrote:
>> >To expensive for me, And, imo, device is useless
>> >- no wired network
>> >- no NORMAL external storage
>> >- iNtel inside :)
>> >
>> >As a terminal it is far more expensive then Rpi, as diskless cpu it
>> >useless
>> >too.
>> >
>> >Useless :) for me
>> >
>> >P.S.: Yes my home mac uses Intel CPU, but it is Apple ! :)
>>
>> Mac? TRAITOR! :)
>>
>> >
>> >2015-07-26 0:37 GMT+03:00 Prof Brucee :
>> >
>> >> AUD$229
>> >>
>> >> On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 7:02 AM, Sergey Zhilkin
>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> How much they cost ?
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >
>>
>http://www.cnx-software.com/2014/10/15/meego-t01-hdmi-tv-stick-supports-android-windows-8-1-and-ubuntulinux/
>> >>> - the same
>> >>>
>> >>> I think they are too HOT :) And 64bit "CPU" comes with 32bit
>> >Windows. Lol
>> >>>
>> >>> 2015-07-25 0:31 GMT+03:00 Prof Brucee :
>> >>>
>>  Anyone with P9 experience on the Intel Compute Stick (aka
>> >STK1A32WFC)?
>>  It's a lot of PC for such a small cost and form factor. I think
>it
>> >was only
>>  released in oz last week. I have ordered one.
>> 
>>  brucee
>> 
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> С наилучшими пожеланиями
>> >>> Жилкин Сергей
>> >>> With best regards
>> >>> Zhilkin Sergey
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>> --
>> Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>>
>>

-- 
Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9

[st...@quintile.net]

don't get me wrong, I don't want gcc, but my employer requires it, and I would 
rather develop on plan even if I cannot develop for plan9.

I do this at present, my main machine is a pi2, and my gcc, Firefox, and 
outlook co-processor is a windows laptop. it works, but I resent carting a 
laptop around.

-Steve




> On 26 Jul 2015, at 18:33, erik quanstrom  wrote:
> 
> just speaking for myself, I found the fact that plan 9 was a self contained 
> thing to be a must have.  i don't consider the gcc toolchain to be a feature. 
> 
> if "fast compilation" is a feature over plan 9, I'd like to see some numbers.
> 
> - erik
> On Jul 25, 2015 3:15 PM, Axel Belinfante  wrote:
> I couldn’t resist looking, and found in http://www.osnews.com/comments/28699
> 
>   "Harvey is an effort to get the Plan 9 code working with gcc and clang”.
> 
> So, in a way it seems to be a port of Plan 9.
> 
> More details, including the feature list below, are at http://harvey-os.org
>   
>   Features
> 
>   • AMD 64 bit
>   • Modern, simplified syscall system
>   • GCC toolchain means you can use gdb(!)
>   • Compile in Linux or OSX using Harvey's headers and libs, no need to 
> change anything else
>   • Fast compilation of the whole system
>   • All Plan9 userland apps available
>   • Plans to add X11 with rio-like multiplexing, tty driver, new 
> fileserver, native toolchain and more
> 
> I’m intrigued by the “compile … using Harvey's headers and libs, no need to 
> change anything else” —
> I guess that means that it will be easy to “port” stuff to Harvey?
> 
> The team list contains names well-known on this list...
> 
> I must say, it looks quite interesting, worth checking out.
> 
> Axel.
> 
> On 25 Jul 2015, at 17:58, Ryan Gonzalez  wrote:
> 
> No clue. I'm guessing it's heavily inspired by Plan 9.
> 
> On July 25, 2015 3:34:13 AM CDT, "st...@quintile.net"  
> wrote:
> not sure what Harvey is... is it just plan9 ported to build on gcc?
> 
> if so does gcc run under Harvey?
> 
> does gcc run under plan9 now?
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 25 Jul 2015, at 01:43, Ryan Gonzalez  wrote:
> 
> https://medium.com/this-is-not-a-monad-tutorial/harvey-an-operating-system-with-plan-9-s-shadow-3081414e5f0b
> 
> I'm not affiliated with this whatsoever; I just saw it on Reddit and found it 
> interesting.
> 
> I found this part particularly neat:
> 
> > We are working in ANSI POSIX environment to have most of well known tools 
> > and programs that programmers or end users expects to have in a modern 
> > operating system. Things that for traditional Plan 9 would be very 
> > difficult to have.
> 
> -- 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
> 
> -- 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
> 

Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9

[hiro]

I'm trying to argue from a Linux point of view.

Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9

[erik quanstrom]

wrong list?  ;-)

On Jul 26, 2015 1:47 PM, hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I'm trying to argue from a Linux point of view. 
>
>

Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9

[hiro]

I haven't had enough time with acid yet, indeed printf was always good
enough for 9front.
I personally wouldn't try fixing firefox' memory leaks with acid. And
if you post on ubuntuforums about bugs in mainstream software I'm sure
they won't help you if you say you can only debug with acid, in the
worst case they might call the police, not understanding what acid is.

[9fans] iounit and msize

[cinap_lenrek]

why is devmnt using msize-IOHDRSZ to split up reads and writes instead
of the iounit of the channel?

mntrdwr():
...
nr = n;
if(nr > m->msize-IOHDRSZ)
nr = m->msize-IOHDRSZ;
r->request.count = nr;

--
cinap

Re: [9fans] iounit and msize

[Prof Brucee]

This would appear to be in error. Rob, please?

brucee

On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 9:24 AM,  wrote:

> why is devmnt using msize-IOHDRSZ to split up reads and writes instead
> of the iounit of the channel?
>
> mntrdwr():
> ...
> nr = n;
> if(nr > m->msize-IOHDRSZ)
> nr = m->msize-IOHDRSZ;
> r->request.count = nr;
>
> --
> cinap
>
>

Re: [9fans] Harvey OS: A new OS inspired heavily by Plan 9

[erik quanstrom]

On Jul 26, 2015 1:59 PM, hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I haven't had enough time with acid yet, indeed printf was always good 
> enough for 9front. 
> I personally wouldn't try fixing firefox' memory leaks with acid

why not?

> if you post on ubuntuforums about bugs in mainstream software I'm sure 
> they won't help you if you say you can only debug with acid, in the 
> worst case they might call the police, not understanding what acid is. 

when i need to run Linux programs, i run linux.

what is the benefit of running firefox on a p9 like system, rather than on 
linux? p9p does a good job of bringing some p9 goodness to linux. the opposite 
is also likely to draw blank stares if mentioned in a bug report.

- erik