Re: [9fans] Acme: the way the future actually was
On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:28 AM, Ethan Grammatikidis wrote: > On Fri, 14 Sep 2012 08:48:40 -0800 Jack Johnson wrote: > > Even with it's "faults" (age?), I still miss Oberon. It was *fun* and > > elegant. > > It's still around in AOS form where it can run native or as a > user-space program under other OSs. I used it to try out someone else's > work and didn't really find the UI very elegant. In particular I > couldn't copy text from the compiler error window, which I thought was > desperately bad. Anyway, apart from that it worked; middle-clicking to > compile and to launch the program was ok, and the OpenGL program I was > trying out ran very smoothly. > > The only link I seem to have kept is http://www.ocp.inf.ethz.ch/ Hindsight is always 20/20. When I first used Oberon 20 years ago, it had this amazing liberating feeling to it; a graphical demonstration of sorting algorithms? Brilliant! (I was in high school. Our "Computer Science" class was taught using Turbo Pascal on IBM PCs; the textbook had a picture of an IBM 4381 on the cover. Luckily, I managed to persuade the system administrators at the local university into giving me accounts on most of the major systems so I could use C, Unix and VMS.) My point is that it's so easy to forget that these sorts of statements about the power, simplicity and elegance of things past carry with them a context that is usually not explicitly articulated. If you came to Oberon from some primitive computing environment (like, say, PCs or something) then it was indeed fun and amazingly elegant. That said, I wouldn't want to go back to running it on a SPARCstation 1 with 16 megs of RAM, a 200MB disk, and a 17 inch black and white CRT. It's easy to look back and say to oneself, "wow, that wasn't as cool as I remembered it being..." but that doesn't change that, at the time, it *was* that cool because of the context. - Dan C.
Re: [9fans] Acme: the way the future actually was
On Fri, 14 Sep 2012 08:48:40 -0800 Jack Johnson wrote: > Even with it's "faults" (age?), I still miss Oberon. It was *fun* and elegant. > > -Jack > It's still around in AOS form where it can run native or as a user-space program under other OSs. I used it to try out someone else's work and didn't really find the UI very elegant. In particular I couldn't copy text from the compiler error window, which I thought was desperately bad. Anyway, apart from that it worked; middle-clicking to compile and to launch the program was ok, and the OpenGL program I was trying out ran very smoothly. The only link I seem to have kept is http://www.ocp.inf.ethz.ch/ -- This is obviously some strange usage of the word "simple" that I was previously unaware of.
Re: [9fans] Acme: the way the future actually was
Ah. Cedar. http://research.swtch.com/acme.pdf Ian
Re: [9fans] Acme: the way the future actually was
Oh, god, this is what we have longed for almost 20 years. I always thought I should do this kind of video. Thank you Russ! t. Anssi Charles Forsyth kirjoitti 17.9.2012 kello 21.26: > And a cleaner link to that: http://research.swtch.com/acme > > On 17 September 2012 19:24, Charles Forsyth wrote: > And this just in: > ...
Re: [9fans] Acme: the way the future actually was
And a cleaner link to that: http://research.swtch.com/acme On 17 September 2012 19:24, Charles Forsyth wrote: > And this just in: > ... >
Re: [9fans] Acme: the way the future actually was
And this just in: http://research.swtch.com/acme?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+hnycombinator+%28HN+-+hnycombinator%29
Re: [9fans] Acme: the way the future actually was
On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 10:19 AM, erik quanstrom wrote: > neither is knowledge of oberon ubiquitous among 9fans, who may > not realize that acme itself is a copy. Isn't even that a derivation of the window system from PARC? Oak I believe? Ian
Re: [9fans] Acme: the way the future actually was
> Probably never heard of Acme. Great, the idea must be good then. -- Aram Hăvărneanu
Re: [9fans] Acme: the way the future actually was
On Sep 14, 2012 7:16 PM, "hiro" <23h...@gmail.com> wrote: > > forgive me, mother, for reading this mailinglist. > I feel as though our mothers have already abandoned us for this list.
Re: [9fans] Acme: the way the future actually was
forgive me, mother, for reading this mailinglist.
Re: [9fans] Acme: the way the future actually was
Speak of the devil "Good artists copy, great artists steal." -Pablo Picasso^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HSteven Jobs^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HSamsung Ltd.(?) This message: -some blogger^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HNick LaForge Typos by me. Sent from my meEgo (alphabet button invention included). (Don't) forgive me, Elop. On 9/14/12, Anssi Porttikivi wrote: > Typos by iPhone. Forgive me, Rob. > > t. Anssi > > Anssi Porttikivi kirjoitti 14.9.2012 kello 23.00: > >> Note that Oberon the OS was a stated influence of Ron Pike et. al. Even in >> Go, type embedding and resistance to class hierarchies relates back to >> Oberon, the language. >> >> >> >> Jack Johnson wrote 14.9.2012 kello 19.48: >> >>> Even with it's "faults" (age?), I still miss Oberon. It was *fun* and >>> elegant. >>> >>> -Jack >>> > >
Re: [9fans] Acme: the way the future actually was
Typos by iPhone. Forgive me, Rob. t. Anssi Anssi Porttikivi kirjoitti 14.9.2012 kello 23.00: > Note that Oberon the OS was a stated influence of Ron Pike et. al. Even in > Go, type embedding and resistance to class hierarchies relates back to > Oberon, the language. > > > > Jack Johnson wrote 14.9.2012 kello 19.48: > >> Even with it's "faults" (age?), I still miss Oberon. It was *fun* and >> elegant. >> >> -Jack >>
Re: [9fans] Acme: the way the future actually was
Note that Oberon the OS was a stated influence of Ron Pike et. al. Even in Go, type embedding and resistance to class hierarchies relates back to Oberon, the language. Jack Johnson wrote 14.9.2012 kello 19.48: > Even with it's "faults" (age?), I still miss Oberon. It was *fun* and elegant. > > -Jack >
Re: [9fans] Acme: the way the future actually was
Even with it's "faults" (age?), I still miss Oberon. It was *fun* and elegant. -Jack
Re: [9fans] Acme: the way the future actually was
"Copy" is a little strong: inspired by, certainly, by way of help/help, but there's an amazing difference in the structure of acme as "text editor as file server" with many independent clients accessing it through the file system. Oberon had a more conventional module "plug-in" structure within a single process. Acme's user interface is also more strictly text-oriented, and streamlined the mouse conventions. On 14 September 2012 15:19, erik quanstrom wrote: > neither is knowledge of oberon ubiquitous among 9fans, who may > not realize that acme itself is a copy. >
Re: [9fans] Acme: the way the future actually was
I knew it because I read the paper :-) 2012/9/14 erik quanstrom : > On Fri Sep 14 10:12:24 EDT 2012, charles.fors...@gmail.com wrote: > >> Probably never heard of Oberon either. > > neither is knowledge of oberon ubiquitous among 9fans, who may > not realize that acme itself is a copy. > > - erik > -- Hugo
Re: [9fans] Acme: the way the future actually was
On Fri Sep 14 10:12:24 EDT 2012, charles.fors...@gmail.com wrote: > Probably never heard of Oberon either. neither is knowledge of oberon ubiquitous among 9fans, who may not realize that acme itself is a copy. - erik
Re: [9fans] Acme: the way the future actually was
Probably never heard of Oberon either. On 14 September 2012 15:07, Lucio De Re wrote: > Still, Oberon had all that a long time ago, if memory isn't betraying > me. >
Re: [9fans] Acme: the way the future actually was
> Probably never heard of Acme. The demo looks impressive, though. I didn't follow it very well, it was way too fast and full of references to concepts that evidently haven't reached my corner of Dark Africa yet :-) Still, Oberon had all that a long time ago, if memory isn't betraying me. ++L
Re: [9fans] Acme: the way the future actually was
Probably never heard of Acme. On 14 September 2012 14:12, dexen deVries wrote: > Seems a well-meaning developer sort of re-invented Acme > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUR_eUVcABg > > -- > dexen deVries > > [[[↓][→]]] > > I'm sorry that this was such a long letter, but I didn't have time to > write > you a short one. -- Blaise Pascal > >
