Re: [9fans] Summary of acme chords
On Wed, 25 Apr 2012 08:40:58 GMT Brian Vito wrote: > I've put together a rudimentary chart of acme chords -- if anyone has > any suggestions, revisions, corrections, etc., they would be greatly > appreciated. Eventually the chart will form part of an introduction to > acme for non-programmers. > > https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B1QVUS-qAuuienlTMHdRYkFzSHM > I like it, but new users should probably be made aware that button 3 officially plumbs text. Search only happens if the plumb fails, I'm not sure of the exact semantics.
Re: [9fans] Summary of acme chords
Shouldn't the top one be: Select->Cut->Paste ? The "Cut" does the snarfing. There is no way (that I know) to simply "Snarf" with a mouse. Moreover, I feel that the top two should be joined a the "Select" vertex, like in the original. This is a great representation. On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 6:08 PM, Tom Lieber wrote: > On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 7:23 PM, Uriel wrote: >> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 8:50 PM, Tom Lieber wrote: >>> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Brian Vito wrote: How would you put together the chart without any empty fees? >>> >>> This is how I've always visualized it: >>> >>> http://alltom.com/files/misc/chords.png >> >> Thanks, this is a quite nice visualization, but i would keep the left >> button in some shade of green on the paste, cut and copy pictures, to >> indicate you should hold it. >> >> In any case hope you are ok that I added it to http://acme.cat-v.org/mouse > > That's fine. Great call on showing which buttons are held, actually… > Here's a version with that and a separate example for paste, which > helps the whole thing make sense sequentially: > > http://alltom.com/files/misc/chords2.png > > It has a transparent background which may or may not help on your site. > > -- > Tom Lieber > http://AllTom.com/ > http://infinite-sketchpad.com/ >
Re: [9fans] Summary of acme chords
On 26 April 2012 11:48, Martin Kühl wrote: > > On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 00:15, david jeannot wrote: > > A bit off topic, but if some OS X users need a > > mouse only for Acme, here is a patch to use Acme > > without a mouse: > > > > http://codereview.appspot.com/6115053 > > Or you could just use the trackpad and p9p mouse emulation: > - select text, keep the trackpad "button" pressed > - hit option to cut > - hit command to paste > > It works surprisingly well. (Yes, this is what I used before this patch, but I couldn't do a 2-1 chord with this emulation, making Acme useless for me. So I hacked Acme to "exec with arg" with a 2-3 chord instead, and it was OK. Then I had to replug a mouse, and found Acme far more comfortable with a mouse than without, so I made this patch.)
Re: [9fans] Summary of acme chords
On Thursday 26 of April 2012 11:48:59 Martin Kühl wrote: > Or you could just use the trackpad and p9p mouse emulation: > - select text, keep the trackpad "button" pressed > - hit option to cut > - hit command to paste > > It works surprisingly well. if your touchpad detects two- and three-finger touches (any Synaptics should do), you can configure it for comfortable execution of Acme commands via touch + touchpad left/right button click. -- dexen deVries
Re: [9fans] Summary of acme chords
On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 00:15, david jeannot wrote: > A bit off topic, but if some OS X users need a > mouse only for Acme, here is a patch to use Acme > without a mouse: > > http://codereview.appspot.com/6115053 Or you could just use the trackpad and p9p mouse emulation: - select text, keep the trackpad "button" pressed - hit option to cut - hit command to paste It works surprisingly well.
Re: [9fans] Summary of acme chords
.TS box, tab(:); l | l l l l. :b1 left:b2 middle:b3 right:cancel _ select:x::: execute::x::b3 right search:::x:b2 middle _ cut:first:second::b3 right snarf:first:second:third paste:first::second:b2 middle .TE On Thu, Apr 26, 2012 at 10:44 AM, Christian Neukirchen < chneukirc...@gmail.com> wrote: > s...@9front.org writes: > > >> https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B1QVUS-qAuuienlTMHdRYkFzSHM > > > > Could this be presented in a format accessible to Plan 9 users? > > .TS > box, tab(:); > l | l l l l. > :b1 left:b2 middle:b3 right:cancel > _ > select > executeb2 right > searchb2 middle > _ > cut:first:second::b3 right > snarf:first:second:third > paste:first::second:b2 middle > .TE > > -- > Christian Neukirchenhttp://chneukirchen.org > >
Re: [9fans] Summary of acme chords
s...@9front.org writes: >> https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B1QVUS-qAuuienlTMHdRYkFzSHM > > Could this be presented in a format accessible to Plan 9 users? .TS box, tab(:); l | l l l l. :b1 left:b2 middle:b3 right:cancel _ select executeb2 right searchb2 middle _ cut:first:second::b3 right snarf:first:second:third paste:first::second:b2 middle .TE -- Christian Neukirchenhttp://chneukirchen.org
Re: [9fans] Summary of acme chords
On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 7:23 PM, Uriel wrote: > On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 8:50 PM, Tom Lieber wrote: >> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Brian Vito wrote: >>> How would you put together the chart without any empty fees? >> >> This is how I've always visualized it: >> >> http://alltom.com/files/misc/chords.png > > Thanks, this is a quite nice visualization, but i would keep the left > button in some shade of green on the paste, cut and copy pictures, to > indicate you should hold it. > > In any case hope you are ok that I added it to http://acme.cat-v.org/mouse That's fine. Great call on showing which buttons are held, actually… Here's a version with that and a separate example for paste, which helps the whole thing make sense sequentially: http://alltom.com/files/misc/chords2.png It has a transparent background which may or may not help on your site. -- Tom Lieber http://AllTom.com/ http://infinite-sketchpad.com/
Re: [9fans] Summary of acme chords
> But now I'm thinking, the text under Select and Paste should not be > the same, unless you are pasting nothing or exactly the text you are > pasting over. it needs two entries at each vertex: one for the buffer, one for what's on screen. then the paste becomes: select: scr: hwhw_hw_hwhw buf: wh paste: scr: hwhw_wh_hwhw buf: wh where the underscored text is "selected".
Re: [9fans] Summary of acme chords
On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 9:34 PM, andrey mirtchovski wrote: >> http://alltom.com/files/misc/chords.png > > a suggestion? > > http://i.imgur.com/hjFJa.png Ah, that is even better, I added a different green to the held button, and updated the version at: http://acme.cat-v.org/mouse But now I'm thinking, the text under Select and Paste should not be the same, unless you are pasting nothing or exactly the text you are pasting over.
Re: [9fans] Summary of acme chords
On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 8:50 PM, Tom Lieber wrote: > On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Brian Vito wrote: >> How would you put together the chart without any empty fees? > > This is how I've always visualized it: > > http://alltom.com/files/misc/chords.png Thanks, this is a quite nice visualization, but i would keep the left button in some shade of green on the paste, cut and copy pictures, to indicate you should hold it. In any case hope you are ok that I added it to http://acme.cat-v.org/mouse Thanks again. Uriel
Re: [9fans] Summary of acme chords
A bit off topic, but if some OS X users need a mouse only for Acme, here is a patch to use Acme without a mouse: http://codereview.appspot.com/6115053 Once applied, Devdraw's manual (accessible from the Help menu) will show the following: On Mac OS X 10.6 or later, the following gestures are avail- able for trackpad users: 2-finger-pinch to toggle fullscreen, 3-finger-swipe left to cut (cmd+x), 3-finger-swipe right to paste (cmd+v), 3-finger-swipe up to copy (cmd+c), 3-finger-swipe down to exec with arg (2-1 chord), 3-finger-tap to middle-click. (Equivalent 2-finger swipe gestures are available for Magic Mouse users.) Swipe gestures will only be available if the system does not use them. On OS X 10.7 for example, the default trackpad configuration must be changed as follows: swipe between pages with "2 or 3 fingers", swipe up to Mission Control with 4 fingers. I use this patch since many months, and I find Acme even more fun than before. You can apply the patch this way: hget http://codereview.appspot.com/download/issue6115053_1.diff > $HOME/Downloads/swipe.diff hg -R $PLAN9 import --no-commit $HOME/Downloads/swipe.diff cd $PLAN9/src/cmd/acme && mk install cd $PLAN9/src/cmd/devdraw && mk install If this patch conflicts with "hg pull -u" one day, you will just have to run the following, to trash all local changes: hg -R $PLAN9 update -C and apply an updated version of the patch. This patch, that is just a hack, has been refused at least for the following reasons: it is too Acme-specific; it can require change to OS X default conf.
Re: [9fans] Summary of acme chords
On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 3:34 PM, andrey mirtchovski wrote: >> http://alltom.com/files/misc/chords.png > > a suggestion? > > http://i.imgur.com/hjFJa.png I like that. It'd probably work better if 'cut' and 'paste' didn't have the same 'select' as their root, so the example for paste could start empty, or with different text. -- Tom Lieber http://AllTom.com/ http://infinite-sketchpad.com/
Re: [9fans] Summary of acme chords
> I really like this graphics and with the text they are even > better. i think it needs two lines of text per graph -- one for what's on screen, one for the snarf buffer.
Re: [9fans] Summary of acme chords
This is the way, Tom Lieber's graphic is really great, I agree. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dopu3ZtdCsg The Hello world is confusing though :D
Re: [9fans] Summary of acme chords
On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 9:34 PM, andrey mirtchovski wrote: >> http://alltom.com/files/misc/chords.png > > a suggestion? > > http://i.imgur.com/hjFJa.png > I really like this graphics and with the text they are even better. G.
Re: [9fans] Summary of acme chords
> http://alltom.com/files/misc/chords.png a suggestion? http://i.imgur.com/hjFJa.png
Re: [9fans] Summary of acme chords
plus I think the man page describes it quite well. IIRC. -- using ipad keyboard. excuse any typos. On Apr 25, 2012, at 9:19 PM, hiro <23h...@googlemail.com> wrote: >> How did you learn this information -- from a "stupid" textual >> list? > > No, from a youtube vid. There were these nice mouse button graphics > accompaning the screencast like later in the thread.
Re: [9fans] Summary of acme chords
> How did you learn this information -- from a "stupid" textual > list? No, from a youtube vid. There were these nice mouse button graphics accompaning the screencast like later in the thread.
Re: [9fans] Summary of acme chords
On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 2:50 PM, Tom Lieber wrote: > On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Brian Vito wrote: >> How would you put together the chart without any empty fees? > > This is how I've always visualized it: > > http://alltom.com/files/misc/chords.png > > (incomplete because I ran out of time and had trouble interpreting the table > :) Just realized that despite my effort, I still typed "copy" instead of "snarf." Ah, well. -- Tom Lieber http://AllTom.com/ http://infinite-sketchpad.com/
Re: [9fans] Summary of acme chords
On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Brian Vito wrote: > How would you put together the chart without any empty fees? This is how I've always visualized it: http://alltom.com/files/misc/chords.png (incomplete because I ran out of time and had trouble interpreting the table :) -- Tom Lieber http://AllTom.com/ http://infinite-sketchpad.com/
Re: [9fans] Summary of acme chords
On 2012-04-25, andy zerger wrote: > Usually I am all about the written word, but the chart made chording > significantly easier to integrate, brain-wise .. just to screw around I > made a nroff document about it, my first ever .. (what a pain in the .. to > make table like data, couldn't find a tag for it anyway) Use tbl.
Re: [9fans] Summary of acme chords
Usually I am all about the written word, but the chart made chording significantly easier to integrate, brain-wise .. just to screw around I made a nroff document about it, my first ever .. (what a pain in the .. to make table like data, couldn't find a tag for it anyway) Acme Chord-Chart "cmd" .B "#1 " .B"#2 " .B"#3 " .B" Cancel" --- "select " .B " X " .B " 0 " .B " X " .B " 0" "execute" .B " 0 " .B " 0 " .B " 0 " .B "B3" "search " .B " 0 " .B " 0 " .B " 0 " .B "B2" "snarf " .B " X " .B " 0 " .B " X " .B "B2" "cut" .B " X " .B " X " .B " 0 " .B "B3" "paste " .B " X " .B " X " .B " X " .B " 0" On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 11:19 AM, Rob DeHart wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 12:15 PM, Jack Norton wrote: > >> Now, the sam language quick reference card that one 9fan composed long >> ago... THAT is a great little thing to have handy. I printed it out but >> removed the file so I don't have a link handy. >> > > http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/contrib/steve/doc/sam-refcard.pdf > seems to be the one > > > Rob > >
Re: [9fans] Summary of acme chords
On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 12:15 PM, Jack Norton wrote: > Now, the sam language quick reference card that one 9fan composed long > ago... THAT is a great little thing to have handy. I printed it out but > removed the file so I don't have a link handy. > http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/contrib/steve/doc/sam-refcard.pdf seems to be the one Rob
Re: [9fans] Summary of acme chords
On 4/25/2012 11:50 AM, Jacob Todd wrote: Aren't all of the chords in the acme paper and/or man page? The acme paper isn't as descriptive as the man page on the subject. There is a section for individual mouse buttons and a dedicated section for chording (keep going down...). Some of the subtle nuances are explained. In my opinion this needs to really be read over a few times until you've got it. I think the same man page is in p9p but I wouldn't know (in fact I suppose there are differences? -- maybe not in the chording bit). Now, the sam language quick reference card that one 9fan composed long ago... THAT is a great little thing to have handy. I printed it out but removed the file so I don't have a link handy. -Jack
Re: [9fans] Summary of acme chords
Aren't all of the chords in the acme paper and/or man page? On Apr 25, 2012 4:46 AM, "Brian Vito" wrote: > I've put together a rudimentary chart of acme chords -- if anyone has > any suggestions, revisions, corrections, etc., they would be greatly > appreciated. Eventually the chart will form part of an introduction to > acme for non-programmers. > > https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B1QVUS-qAuuienlTMHdRYkFzSHM > >
Re: [9fans] Summary of acme chords
not on the table: B2+B1 passes dot as arg to the cmd
Re: [9fans] Summary of acme chords
>> But how do Plan 9 users access this chart? > > hget -o acme_chords.pdf > 'https://doc-0o-3g-docs.googleusercontent.com/docs/securesc/ha0ro937gcuc7l7deffksulhg5h7mbp1/pub48giqvrap6he53h3mtl8q9g5nlvid/133536960/05011244667098227595/*/0B1QVUS-qAuuienlTMHdRYkFzSHM' Thank you. -sl
Re: [9fans] Summary of acme chords
> But how do Plan 9 users access this chart? hget -o acme_chords.pdf 'https://doc-0o-3g-docs.googleusercontent.com/docs/securesc/ha0ro937gcuc7l7deffksulhg5h7mbp1/pub48giqvrap6he53h3mtl8q9g5nlvid/133536960/05011244667098227595/*/0B1QVUS-qAuuienlTMHdRYkFzSHM' -- David du Colombier
Re: [9fans] Summary of acme chords
hello A plan9 user already knows how to work with the mouse. The document is for non-plan9 users that want to become one, so there is no problem for them to access it, they will have a compatible browser. Also, if they search the mail list (http://9fans.net/archive/) for information they will discover that some pieces of information are accesible from their current worlds. Answering your question, I think there was someone who made the google client python program run under plan9. IIRC that tool was able to download documents or manage them somehow (https://developers.google.com/google-apps/spreadsheets/). Also, 9front, a Plan9 variant developed by volunteers, includes (or can use) all the tools needed to run opera browser (linuxemu, x11, etc.), which probably can get to the document (http://code.google.com/p/plan9front/wiki/screenshots). DP9IK knew this. It´s strange that you didn´t, given your email address :P gabi PD: sorry for the http links, you might not be able to read them without javascript. PDD: Brian Vito, i think there is a youtube video showing how to use the mouse in plan9 which migh be useful to you. ___ From: 9fans-boun...@9fans.net [9fans-boun...@9fans.net] on behalf of s...@9front.org [s...@9front.org] Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 17:29 To: 9fans@9fans.net Subject: Re: [9fans] Summary of acme chords > But thanks for your criticism. Next time, trying to be helpful would > be nice. But how do Plan 9 users access this chart? -sl
Re: [9fans] Summary of acme chords
On Apr 25, 7:26 am, 23h...@googlemail.com (hiro) wrote: > When only half of the fields of your table have a meaning you're doing > something wrong. And nobody wants to learn motoric motions from some > stupid table. > Things like select are too trivial for this and Snarf can be left out > because essentially it's just the same as cutting and pasting > together. > > Soon your pupils will ask you how you can cancel "select". If you don't find it to be helpful, you could suggest a better way of presenting the information, rather than referring to it as a "stupid" table. How did you learn this information -- from a "stupid" textual list?
Re: [9fans] Summary of acme chords
> But thanks for your criticism. Next time, trying to be helpful would > be nice. But how do Plan 9 users access this chart? -sl
Re: [9fans] Summary of acme chords
On Apr 25, 7:26 am, 23h...@googlemail.com (hiro) wrote: > When only half of the fields of your table have a meaning you're doing > something wrong. And nobody wants to learn motoric motions from some > stupid table. > Things like select are too trivial for this and Snarf can be left out > because essentially it's just the same as cutting and pasting > together. > > Soon your pupils will ask you how you can cancel "select". Thanks for the criticism. How would you put together the chart without any empty fees? How do you suggest people learn motoric [sic] motions? >From stupid list? And how would you suggest expressing that button 1, rather than two or three, selects? And that button 3 searches? Select isn't trivial when there are three buttons. And While you know that snarf is a cut/paste, how did you learn that? This chart is meant for people who don't already know all the commands. But thanks for your criticism. Next time, trying to be helpful would be nice.
Re: [9fans] Summary of acme chords
When only half of the fields of your table have a meaning you're doing something wrong. And nobody wants to learn motoric motions from some stupid table. Things like select are too trivial for this and Snarf can be left out because essentially it's just the same as cutting and pasting together. Soon your pupils will ask you how you can cancel "select".
Re: [9fans] Summary of acme chords
> https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B1QVUS-qAuuienlTMHdRYkFzSHM Could this be presented in a format accessible to Plan 9 users? -sl
Re: [9fans] Summary of acme chords
On Apr 25, 6:40 pm, Brian Vito wrote: > I've put together a rudimentary chart of acme chords -- if anyone has > any suggestions, revisions, corrections, etc., they would be greatly > appreciated. Eventually the chart will form part of an introduction to > acme for non-programmers. > > https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B1QVUS-qAuuienlTMHdRYkFzSHM Thanks I appreciate this!
