Re: [abcusers] Re: ABC, AHC, Do-Re-Mi
Jack Camnpin said "...the formatting as staff notation depends on BarFly's line-end design bug..." Eh?? I ran it into Muse and it looked fine. I looked at it by eye and it looked fine. What "bug" ?? To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Character encoding (was Re: ABC, AHC, Do-Re-Mi)
Muse is quite happy with these things too. *Editing* them when they are not on the keyboard is something of an art, but displaying them is no problem. Laurie Griffiths http://www.musements.co.uk/muse where you will find music notation software for PCs. - Original Message - From: Christophe Declercq <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, July 10, 2000 7:13 AM Subject: [abcusers] Character encoding (was Re: ABC, AHC, Do-Re-Mi) > De : Sigfrid Lundberg, Lub NetLab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Objet : Re: [abcusers] Re: ABC, AHC, Do-Re-Mi > Date : dimanche 9 juillet 2000 20:22 > Beware, the åäö are not escaped in this one. abc2ps works anyway. Is that > a bug? abc2ps understands any character in iso latin-1 encoding (which is OK for Unix or Windows) **or** with TeX-style escape sequence (the only way for MacOS). I would call that a feature, though. Anyway, if you want your abc to be portable, the TeX-style escape sequences are to be preferred (it is the standard way). Christophe To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] Character encoding (was Re: ABC, AHC, Do-Re-Mi)
> De : Sigfrid Lundberg, Lub NetLab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Objet : Re: [abcusers] Re: ABC, AHC, Do-Re-Mi > Date : dimanche 9 juillet 2000 20:22 > Beware, the åäö are not escaped in this one. abc2ps works anyway. Is that > a bug? abc2ps understands any character in iso latin-1 encoding (which is OK for Unix or Windows) **or** with TeX-style escape sequence (the only way for MacOS). I would call that a feature, though. Anyway, if you want your abc to be portable, the TeX-style escape sequences are to be preferred (it is the standard way). Christophe To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Re: ABC, AHC, Do-Re-Mi
>> I think we're scaring the newcomers.
> That worries me too. We could take this discussion somewhere
> else if necessary - it's not really about abc per se. Any
> newcomers like to comment? Or alternatively somebody post
> some tunes so this isn't the only thread in town :-)
Lemme try to do both. How well would the matching algorithms suggested so
far do on identifying the variation-ness of variations? Like this set?
X:70
T:To Daunton Me
C:James Oswald
S:Caledonian Pocket Companion
Q:Slow % which will probably make most ABC implementations throw a fit,
% but it's what Oswald wrote and it damn well needs to be allowed
% for in the standard.
M:4/4
L:1/8
K:Edor
F>A | B2(E>F)E2(A>G) | (F>A)(E>F) D2
(d>e) |\
(fe)(dB) (dF)E2
:|
(TF>E)| D2(d>e)d3 e| (fe/f/) (e/d/)(c/B/) A3
d |\
B2(e>f)e3 f|({a}g)f ({f}e)d B2
(d>e) |
f2 ({a}g)f e2 ({g}f)e |d>edB ABde
|\
(f>d)(e>B) (d>A) (B/A/F/A/)|B2 E>F E2
:|
(F>A)| B2 E2 d3 c/B/ |A(B/G/) ({A}G)(F/E/)D2
d>e |\
fdef (DEF)A |B2 E>F E2
:|
(TF>E)| D2(FA) d3 e|f(3(e/d/c/) dB A3
(d/c/)|\
BEGB (e^de)f | (g/a/f/g/e/f/)(d/e/) B2
(d>e) |
(fe/f/ g)f(ed/e/ f)e |d(c/B/) dF A2
(d>e) |\
f/(e/d/f/) e/(d/B/e/) (d/B/A/d/) (B/A/F/A/)|B2 E>F E2
:|
F>A | BE2 F G(A/B/) AG|F/(d/c/B/) A/(G/F/E/) D2
(d>e) |\
f (3(e/d/c/) d (3(c/B/A/) BDEF |B2 E>F E2
:|
(TF>E)| DF2 A2 d2 f|a(g/f/) e/d/c/B/A3
(G/F/)|\
EG2 B2 e Bf| (g/a/f/)g/ (e/f/d/)e/ B2
(d>e) |
fa2 (g/f/) (e/f/) g2 (f/e/)|de/f/ (e/d/)(c/B/) ABde
|\
(f/e/)d (e/d/)B (d/B/)A (B/A/F/A/)|B2 E>F E2
:|
M:6/8
"Jig"
F|B2E E2F|(AF)E D2(d/e/)|(fe)d (DE)F|(BA)F E2:|\
F|D2d d2e|(fe)d (BA)F|
E2e E2g |(fe)d B2
(d/e/)|f3 Te3 | d2B (AB)d|(FE)D (EF)A|(BA)F E2:|
Note that this was edited using Barfly, and the formatting as staff
notation depends on BarFly's line-end design bug; you may need to add
extra continuation marks where lines of text don't end with a barline.
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Re: [abcusers] Re: ABC, AHC, Do-Re-Mi
On Sun, 9 Jul 2000, Phil Taylor wrote: > David Barnert wrote: > > >Me (the user): > > > >I'm glad you guys are having a good time. Personally, I tuned out > >weeks ago. I think we're scaring the newcomers. > > > >OK. Go ahead on. > > That worries me too. We could take this discussion somwhere > else if necessary - it's not really about abc per se. Any > newcomers like to comment? Or alternatively somebody post > some tunes so this isn't the only thread in town :-) I think it's a shame the "developers" list is dead, we maybe need that distinction. This is a fantastic discussion. I'm too busy with summer, and being away and doing other things, but I'm saving it all for when I have time to think (if ever). There's all kinds of ideas I hadn't met before, that look like they might be useful for something if I could get my head round them. -- Richard Robinson "The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC, AHC, Do-Re-Mi
Phil Taylor wrote: > Laurie wrote: > > >I thought I should say how welcome this discussion is. Here we > >are, all throwing rocks at each others' ideas in the best traditions > >of university argument without anyone getting upset and with > >everyone (especially the rock throwers) learning new stuff and > >acquiring respect for the generators of the ideas. > > Yes, I'm enjoying it too. I spend a lot of time thinking about > this stuff (it's part of what I get paid to do) so it's quite > fascinating to hear some entirely different ideas on the subject. > I just hope that we haven't put off too many of the regular readers > of this group by getting into the technicalities. Not at all! I'm afraid my vector calculus is really rather rusty (haven't had much use for it since college except for finding complexities of algorithms), so I've only been half-understanding the discussion, and I haven't joined in at all. But it's certainly very interesting, even to this not-particularly-mathematically-literate reader. :) In fact, I'd been wondering about the algorithm behind diffing two files, so that bit was particularly interesting to me. So, keep going! and we all will learn something. - Eric -- ---=---=-=-==-===-=//===//=-===-==-=-=--= <>< - "God is real, unless // Name: // Eric Galluzzo // [EMAIL PROTECTED] declared integer." // WWW: // http://w3.one.net/~eng/ -- Unknown // Work: // SDRC // Software Engineer ---=-=-==-===-=//===//==//=-===-==-=-=--= <>< - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Re: ABC, AHC, Do-Re-Mi
On Sun, 9 Jul 2000, Phil Taylor wrote:
> David Barnert wrote:
...
> That worries me too. We could take this discussion somwhere
> else if necessary - it's not really about abc per se. Any
> newcomers like to comment? Or alternatively somebody post
> some tunes so this isn't the only thread in town :-)
Beware, the åäö are not escaped in this one. abc2ps works anyway. Is that
a bug?
Sigge
snip---
X:1
T:Vals (Skåne SvL 1336)
C:Nils Ströbäck, 1815-1881
O:Skåne
B:Anderson, Nils och Olof Andersson. Svenska Låtar, Skåne.
M:3/4
L:1/8
K:Bb
((3gfe)|"Bb"d4 f2|"F"c4 f2|"Bb"B4 f2|"Bb"B2 A2 B2|"Eb"e4 g2|"F"c2 =B2 c2|
"Bb"f4 b2|"F7"e2 d2 c2|"Bb"d4 f2|"F"c4 f2|"Bb"B4 f2|"Bb"B2 A2 B2|
"Eb"e4 g2|"Eb"c4 b2|"F7"ag fe dc|"Bb"B4 :||: \
K:F
(AB)|"F"c2 (dc) =Bc|
"F"Ac fA cf|"C7"Gc eg bg|"F"fa cf AB|"F"c2 (dc) =Bc|
"F"Ac fA cf|"C7"Gc eg bg|"F"f4 :||: \
K:Bb
((3fga)|"Bb"b3 a g2|"F"f3 e d2|
"Bb"B2 BB B2|"Eb"B2 g2 f2|"F"A2 AA A2|"F"A2 g2 f2|"Bb"B2 B2 B2|"Eb"B2 g2 f2|
"Bb"b3 a g2|"F"f3 e d2|"Bb"B2 B2 B2|"Eb"B2 g2 f2|"F"A2 AA A2|"F"A2 g2 f2|
"Bb"B2 BB B2|"Bb"B2 z2 :||:"F" F2 |"Bb" F2 (GA) Bc|"Bb"d4 c2|\
"F"B2 (cd) ef|"F"g4 f2|
"F"f2 AA A2|"F"A4 f2|"Bb"d2 BB B2|"Bb"B2 z2 FF|"F"F2 GA Bc|"Bb"d4 c2|
"Bb"B2 (cd) ef|"Eb"g4 f2|"F"{g}f2 AA A2|"F"{a}g2 AA A2|"F"{g}f2 AA A2|\
"Bb"B2 z2 :|
X:2
T:Vals (Skåne SvL 1325)
C:Nils Ströbäck, 1815-1881.
O:Skåne
B:Anderson, Nils och Olof Andersson. Svenska Låtar, Skåne.
N:Komponerad 1848. Valsen börjar snarlikt andra låtar av Ströbäck,
N:men, konstaterar upptecknaren Nils Andersson, "att en bondspeleman
N:upprepar sig själv, är mindre underligt än att han kan komponera
N:så sköna tongångar som sista reprisens första hälft.
M:3/4
L:1/8
K:Bb
((3dfa) | b2 bb b2 | b2 a2 b2 |f6 |d6 |g2 gg g2|
g2 a2 b2|a6|a2 z2 c2|(Ac) ec gf|dB df ga|
bd gf ec|dD FB d2|Ac ec gf|db df ga|
bd gf ec|B2 z2:||:\
K:F
c |Ac fc af|d2 b2 b2|
(dg) ce gb|ac af cB|Ac fc af|d2 B2 B2|
(EG) cB dc|F2 z2:||:\
K:Bb
((3dfa) | b2 fe df| d2 BF D2|E2 Ac ec|
B2 df ga|b2 (fe) df|d2 Bf D2|E2 (Ac) ec|B2 z2:|
|:G|G2 ^F2 G2|B2 A2 G2|c2 d2 e2|d6|g2 a2 b2|a2 g2 f2|d6|
B6| ff dB gf|ee eF ec|AA AF ec|
BB Bd eb|ff dB gf|ee eF ec|AA AF ec| B2 z :|
>
> Phil Taylor
>
>
> To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to:
>http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
>
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Re: [abcusers] Re: ABC, AHC, Do-Re-Mi
David Barnert wrote: >Me (the user): > >I'm glad you guys are having a good time. Personally, I tuned out >weeks ago. I think we're scaring the newcomers. > >OK. Go ahead on. That worries me too. We could take this discussion somwhere else if necessary - it's not really about abc per se. Any newcomers like to comment? Or alternatively somebody post some tunes so this isn't the only thread in town :-) Phil Taylor To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] Re: ABC, AHC, Do-Re-Mi
Four consecutive posts in this morning's digest- Laurie: >I thought I should say how welcome this discussion is. Phil: >Yes, I'm enjoying it too. Sigfrid: >It is a *very* stimulating discussion John: >WARNING: > > This post is long. Too long. Personally, I'd suggest hitting >the delete button right now... Me (the user): I'm glad you guys are having a good time. Personally, I tuned out weeks ago. I think we're scaring the newcomers. OK. Go ahead on. __ /\/\/\/\ <__> | | | | | David Barnert <__> | | | | | <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <__> | | | | | Albany, N.Y. <__> \/\/\/\/ Ventilator Concertina Bellows Bellows (Vocation) (Avocation) To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] Any search will work?
John contended that tunes are so rare among the possibilities
that any scheme will work.
I contend that in that huge space, tunes are very, ..., very
tightly grouped in one "corner" of the space. Most of
the possible tunes ("most" being one of those mathematical
understatements that are so huge that one runs out of
words) would sound like random notes. If in fact you
take the output of a random number generator and feed
it into a synthesiser it just sounds horrible (like Schnitke
or Schoenberg only worse). No real tune is like that.
The chance of producing a listenable-to tune from
random numbers is pretty much negligibly small.
Efforts at computer composition *do* use random numbers
but not to directly determine note pitch. There have to be
lots of higher order constructs to define pattern. To put
it another way - real tunes have low entropy.
As an illustration of this, many years ago I worked in
IBM where they insisted that I forget my password
every month (if you get my drift) and furthermore
that each month's new password had to be dissimilar
to the last 16 previous ones etc.
I had written a synthesiser program for an Amiga that mapped
the keyboard into notes (a sort of cross between a melodeon
and a button accordion) and to generate passwords I thought
of a tune and just "played it". So the Irish Washer Woman
was rjhffbffhfhrkj and so on. All was fine for a few months,
then it started complaining that most of my new passwords
were too similar to some old password.
If you like "searching for tunes is hard, because to
a first approximation all tunes are the same".
Regarding John's conclusions
1. The conclusion might be right, but I think the argument
is wrong. What the various algorithms do is to project
the tune space which has a very high dimensionality onto
a much smaller space. We then hope that "similar" tunes
land up close and "dissimilar" tunes don't. For instance
a hash code would *not* work here but many things
will. What matters is the distribution in the projection
space, not in the original.
2. Yes, probably good to have several algorithms.
3. Experiment - yes!
Laurie
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