Re: [abcusers] The Girl From Ipanema

[Ulf]

Am Mittwoch, 1. Mai 2002 23:25 schrieb Atte Andre Jensen:
> On Wed, 1 May 2002, Ulf wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm so proud of this one, I simply have to give it away, believe me: it
> > was not easy to make...
>
> Hey, great! I did find room for improvements IMHO, though:
>
> 1) Changed the formatting arround so the 1st and 2nd ending is together on
> one line + try to keep 4 bars to the line
>
> 2) Changed your - for avoiding ties to *, which I personally prefer
>
> 3) Put the Portuguese title on another T:
>
> 4) There's no need to write "(3:2:3" for triplets, "(3" should do...
>
> 5) added || and P: to make the form clear
>
> 6) added a few *'s, abcm2ps warned that there were not enough lyrich for
> the melody.
>
> > I have been looking for sheet music with the Portuguese lyrics to it but
> > never found one. The particular rhythmics of this version has a
> > particularly sexy note to it.
>
> I have to trust you on the lyrics, my portuguese is a bit...
> non-existing:-) Is it a transcription from record (the famous
> Gilberto/Getz?) or did you find a sheet? Where did you get the lyrics?
>
The lyrics are from internet, I don't remember where but I have certainly 
compared two sources.

The other things worked alright with jcabc2ps - with the "c" setting for 
automatic line break.

And thanks. If you are interested - I am going to make more jazz/bossa/pop 
things in the future, see if we can make a small "Real Book" together.

Ulf
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Re: [abcusers] Re: abc's biggest problem

[Phil Taylor]

Jack Campin wrote:

>In Barfly, "x" doesn't print but does play, like a "z".  So that example
>is in 5/4 with a rest and chord change on the 5th beat.
>
>Neither does the same thing using the "y" non-printing non-playing space
>work.  Try lining it up with a parallel voice containing four crotchets
>and see what you get.
>
>This ugly mess is the best I can do in BarFly to get those chords to line
>up with four crotchets in another voice while retaining the semibreve:
>
>   V:1  "A" C4 "Am"y4  |
>   V:2  GyGy   Gy2G|
>
>and every additional voice would require quadratically more y's to sort
>the misalignments out.  An example of why I don't show other people the
>ABCs I've written with y's in.

Not true.  The timing of 'y' counts for vertical alignment only, so all
bars should contain the same total amount of time (and therefore the same
time value of ys) to align.  Each additional voice will need to contain
exactly y4 (divided up appropriately to the notes) to keep the alignment right

The real problem here is not with abc at all - it's the fact that guitar
chords by convention do not contain any timing information.  When you
write two chords over a single note in conventional notation you are
leaving the timing of the chords to be decided by the intelligent
musician who reads it.  You can't expect a computer to do that.
Using invisible rests (x or y) won't help a player program to play the
chords in the correct places either.  The only way to do that would be to
introduce time values into the chords (or put them in a separate voice with
rests as Atte did in the first place).  Actually, I think I like that
method best of all, even if it's not what happens in conventional notation.

Phil Taylor


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Re: [abcusers] !fine! exclamation-point abuse

[Phil Taylor]

John Chambers wrote:

>| On the other hand, I still think that the lack of a way to represent
>| dynamics and certain other commonly-used symbols is ABC's biggest
>| handicap.
>
>We could get into a real debate over what's the most serious handicap
>in  ABC.   My vote would waver between the lack of endings other than
>first and second, and the lack of a way to notate  non-classical  key
>signatures.  But of course I fixed those in my abc2ps clone.  I'd put
>dynamics right up there, though I'd lump this together with the  lack
>of other standard annotations.

Over the five year history of BarFly, I've had exactly one request from
a user for more complex repeat structures and nobody has ever asked for
global accidentals to be rolled into the key signature rather than
placed on the individual notes as the program does now.  At the moment
they're all yelling for a fix for playing under OS X (It's Apple's
OS which is buggy for once rather than my program) and they want
guitar chords to play, so that's what I'm doing.

The real problem with abc is that there isn't enough time in a lifetime.

>I'm sure others will make other suggestions.   Let's  hear  from  the
>crowds  that  really,  really  need a 4- or 6-line staff or alternate
>shapes for note heads ...

I can do a four-line staff with square notes...

Phil Taylor


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Re: abc's biggest problem (was: [abcusers] !fine! exclamation-point abuse)

[John Chambers]

Atte writes:
| On Wed, 1 May 2002, Wil Macaulay wrote:
|
| > if your software supports non-printing rests (BarFly, Skink) you can write
| >
| > | "A"C4 "Am"x |
|
| Hey, that's pretty clever! Although is looks broken (5 notes to a 4/4
| bar). And I was pretty amazed the abc2midi actually played it fine (pretty
| hip harmonization you have there on the first beat, btw:-))
|
| Let me think before I act, but I might just go over my tunes and switch to
| this hack...

Hmmm ...  Shouldn't that give you four beats of an A  chord
followed  by a fifth beat of Am?  If abc2midi plays the two
chords for two beats each, I'd think this would be a bug.

(I do have tunes in 5/4; I hope abc2midi doesn't shrink the
measures to 4/4.)


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[abcusers] Jim Vint & Breathnach

[Christian M. Cepel]

Hi all.

Can anyone tell me if Jim Vint's on this list?

And. If he is, and you're him (lovely grammar, I know..)... Jim..
would you consider licensing Breathnach, and what would the terms be?
We're still doing our abc software engineering project for software
engineering class, and we've not the time or desire to build our own
tokens or font. Especially since we've moved from a MS Visual C++ dev to Java 1.4 +
 Forte dev pretty late in the game (Hey.. It's the extreme method ofprogramming!)

 //Christian
-- 
+===+
Christian Marcus Cepel  ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._
[EMAIL PROTECTED] icq:12384980 `6_ 6  )   `-.  ( ).`-.__.`)
5812 Square Circle, Columbia 65203   (_Y_.)'  ._   )  `._ `. ``-..-'
w573.882.8309 h443.8676 m268.7533  _..`--'_..-_/  /--'_.' ,'
Computer Support Specialist, Sr.  (il),-''  (li),'  ((!.-'
School of Information Science & Learning Technologies, College of Ed,
University of Missouri - Columbia * And the wrens have returned & are
nesting *In the hollow of that oak where his heart once had been *And
he lifts his arms in a blessing *For being born again. --Rich Mullins
+===+



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[abcusers] Re: abc's biggest problem

[Jack Campin]

>> I think abc's biggest shortcomming is the fundamental of only
>> being able to put a chord where there is a melody-note. I consider this a
>> major bummer, and guess everybody (except me) writes stuff like
>>  | "A Am"C4 |
> if your software supports non-printing rests (BarFly, Skink) you can write
> | "A"C4 "Am"x |

In Barfly, "x" doesn't print but does play, like a "z".  So that example
is in 5/4 with a rest and chord change on the 5th beat.

Neither does the same thing using the "y" non-printing non-playing space
work.  Try lining it up with a parallel voice containing four crotchets
and see what you get.

This ugly mess is the best I can do in BarFly to get those chords to line
up with four crotchets in another voice while retaining the semibreve:

   V:1  "A" C4 "Am"y4  |
   V:2  GyGy   Gy2G|

and every additional voice would require quadratically more y's to sort
the misalignments out.  An example of why I don't show other people the
ABCs I've written with y's in.

===  ===


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Re: [abcusers] !fine! exclamation-point abuse

[Atte Andre Jensen]

On Wed, 1 May 2002, Buddha Buck wrote:

> At 06:35 PM 05-01-2002 +, John Chambers you wrote:

> It's interesting... in response to Jeff's message, I've seen lots of people
> comments on his choice for the title of ABC's biggest handicap, but no
> comments on his proposal to fix his particular itch.

I don't use dynamics at all, but I use chords alot. It's only natural that
different people see different limitations since they use abc for
completely different thinks, but you knew that already :-)
--
l8er
Atte

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Re: [abcusers] Re: abc's biggest problem

[Atte Andre Jensen]

On Wed, 1 May 2002, Jack Campin wrote:

> >> I think abc's biggest shortcomming is the fundamental of only being
> >> able to put a chord where there is a melody-note. I consider this a
> >> major bummer, and guess everybody (except me) writes stuff like
> >>   | "A Am"C4 |
> > Not me, I write
> >| "C" A- "Cdim" A- "Dm7" A- "G9" A- | "C6" A2 z2 |
> > Which is, by the way, also ugly...
>
> I suggested a fix for this a few years ago, which nobody took up.  My
> idea was to have an extra kind of dummy note, which would only have
> time value (like a rest) but would have the effect of adding to the
> length of the last preceding real note.  Say we used "y" for this - at
> the time, nobody had pinched it for anything else.  Then Ulf's example
> could be written
>
>  | "C" A "Cdim" y "Dm7" y "G9" y- | "C6" A2 z2 |

Nice!

>  | "C" A-- "Cdim" A-- "Dm7" A-- "G9" A- | "C6" A2 z2 |

Very nice!!!

Hope I wouldn't have to add even more of those silly *'s in the lyrics for
this, though :-)

> I prefer the "--" way as it eats less of the alphabet and seems more
> readable; you don't need to know previous context to tell what pitch
> is playing.

Agree
-- 
l8er
Atte

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Re: abc's biggest problem (was: [abcusers] !fine! exclamation-point abuse)

[Atte Andre Jensen]

On Wed, 1 May 2002, Wil Macaulay wrote:

> if your software supports non-printing rests (BarFly, Skink) you can write
>
> | "A"C4 "Am"x |

Hey, that's pretty clever! Although is looks broken (5 notes to a 4/4
bar). And I was pretty amazed the abc2midi actually played it fine (pretty
hip harmonization you have there on the first beat, btw:-))

Let me think before I act, but I might just go over my tunes and switch to
this hack...
-- 
l8er
Atte

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Re: abc's biggest problem (was: [abcusers] !fine! exclamation-pointabuse)

[Atte Andre Jensen]

On Wed, 1 May 2002, Ulf wrote:

> Am Mittwoch, 1. Mai 2002 15:55 schrieb Atte Andre Jensen:
> > and guess everybody (except me) writes stuff like
> >
> >  | "A Am"C4 |
>
> Not me, I write
>
> | "C" A- "Cdim" A- "Dm7" A- "G9" A- | "C6" A2 z2 |
>
> Which is, by the way, also ugly...

True :-)
-- 
l8er
Atte

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Re: [abcusers] The Girl From Ipanema

[Atte Andre Jensen]

On Wed, 1 May 2002, Ulf wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm so proud of this one, I simply have to give it away, believe me: it was
> not easy to make...

Hey, great! I did find room for improvements IMHO, though:

1) Changed the formatting arround so the 1st and 2nd ending is together on
one line + try to keep 4 bars to the line

2) Changed your - for avoiding ties to *, which I personally prefer

3) Put the Portuguese title on another T:

4) There's no need to write "(3:2:3" for triplets, "(3" should do...

5) added || and P: to make the form clear

6) added a few *'s, abcm2ps warned that there were not enough lyrich for
the melody.

> I have been looking for sheet music with the Portuguese lyrics to it but never
> found one. The particular rhythmics of this version has a particularly sexy
> note to it.

I have to trust you on the lyrics, my portuguese is a bit...
non-existing:-) Is it a transcription from record (the famous
Gilberto/Getz?) or did you find a sheet? Where did you get the lyrics?

I put it on my site, still need to fix a few quirks there though :-(

Thanks for sharing
-- 
l8er
Atte


X: 1
T:The Girl From Ipanema
T:(Garota De Ipanema)
C: Antonio Carlos Jobim
M: 4/4
L: 1/8
Z: Ulf
K: F maj
P:A
"Fmaj7" G2 GE E2 ED | G2 GE EE DG- | "G7" G2 GE EE DG- |
w: Ol-ha que coi-sa mais lin-da, mais chei-a de gra- * ça é e-la me-ni-
w: Mo-ça do cor-po dou-ra-do do sol de'I-pa-ne- * ma o seu ba-lan-ça-
G2 GE EE DF- | "Gm7" F2 FD DD CE- | "Gb7" E2 EC CC B,C- |
w: * na que vem e que pas-* sa num do-ce ba-lan- * ço ca-min-ho do mar
w: * do é mais que'um po-e-* ma é'a coi-sa mais lin- * da que'eu já vi pas-sar
[1 "Fmaj7" C8 | "Gb7" z8 :|[2 "Fmaj7" C8 | z8 ||
P:B
"Gbmaj7" F8- | (3F2_G2_F2 (3:2:3_E2F2E2 | "B7" _D3 _E-E4- | _E6 z ^G- |
w: Ah, * por-que'es-tou tão so-zin-ho ** Ah,
"F#m7" ^G8- | (3^G2A2G2 (3^F2G2F2 | "D7" E3 ^F- F4- | ^F6 z A- |
w: ** por-que tu-do'é tão tri-ste * * Ah, 
"Gm7" A8- | (3A2B2A2 (3:2:3G2A2G2 |"Eb7" F3 G- G4- | G4 (3z2A2B2 |
w:** a be-le-za que'ex-i-ste * * A be-
"Am7" (3c2C2D2 (3E2F2G2 | "D7" ^G3 A3 z2 | "Gm7" (3B2B,2C2 (3D2E2F2 | "C7" ^F3 G3 z2 
||
w:le-za que não é só min-ha, que tam-bém pas-sa so-zin-ha
P:A'
"Fmaj7" G3 E EE DG- |G2 GE- EE DG- | "G7" G2 GE EE DG- | G2 GE EE DA- |
w: Ah, se e-la sou-bes- * se que* quan-do'e-la pas- * sa o mundo sor-rin- * do se 
en-che de gra-
"Gm7" A2 AF FF Dc- |"Gb7" c2 cE (3E2E2D2 | "Fmaj7" E8- | E2 z6  |]
w: * ça e fi-ca mais lin- * do por cau-sa do'a mor*

[abcusers] The Girl From Ipanema

[Ulf]

Hi,

I'm so proud of this one, I simply have to give it away, believe me: it was 
not easy to make...

I have been looking for sheet music with the Portuguese lyrics to it but never 
found one. The particular rhythmics of this version has a particularly sexy 
note to it.

Ulf

X: 1
T: The Girl From Ipanema (Garota De Ipanema)
C: Antonio Carlos Jobim
M: 4/4
L: 1/8
Z: Ulf
K: F maj
"Fmaj7" G2 GE E2 ED | G2 GE EE DG- | "G7" G2 GE EE DG- | G2 GE EE DF- |
w: Ol-ha que coi-sa mais lin-da, mais chei-a de gra- - ça é e-la me-ni- - na que vem e 
que pas-
w: Mo-ça do cor-po dou-ra-do do sol de'I-pa-ne- - ma o seu ba-lan-ça- - do é mais 
que'um po-e-
"Gm7" F2 FD DD CE- | "Gb7" E2 EC CC B,C- |[1 "Fmaj7" C8 | "Gb7" z8 :|
w: - sa num do-ce ba-lan- - ço ca-min-ho do mar -
w: - ma é'a coi-sa mais lin- - da que'eu já vi pas-sar
[2 "Fmaj7" C8 | z8 |
"Gbmaj7" F8- | (3:2:3F2_G2_F2 (3:2:3_E2F2E2 | "B7" _D3 _E-E4- | _E6 z ^G- |
w: Ah, - por-que'es-tou tão so-zin-ho - - Ah,
"F#m7" ^G8- | (3:2:3^G2A2G2 (3:2:3^F2G2F2 | "D7" E3 ^F- F4- |
w: - - por-que tu-do'é tão tri-ste
^F6 z A- | "Gm7" A8- | (3:2:3A2B2A2 (3:2:3G2A2G2 |"Eb7" F3 G- G4- |
w: - Ah, - - a be-le-za que'ex-i-ste
G4 (3:2:3z2A2B2 | "Am7" (3:2:3 c2C2D2 (3:2:3E2F2G2 |
w: - A be-le-za que não é só
"D7" ^G3 A3 z2 | "Gm7" (3:2:3B2B,2C2 (3:2:3D2E2F2 | "C7" ^F3 G3 z2 |
w: min-ha, que tam-bém pas-sa so-zin-ha
"Fmaj7" G3 E EE DG- |G2 GE- EE DG- | "G7" G2 GE EE DG- | G2 GE EE DA- |
w: Ah, se e-la sou-bes- - se que quan-do'e-la pas- - sa o mundo sor-rin- - do se 
en-che de gra-
"Gm7" A2 AF FF Dc- |"Gb7" c2 cE (3:2:3E2E2D2 | "Fmaj7" E8- | E2 z6  ||
w: - ça e fi-ca mais lin- - do por cau-sa do'a mor

Re: [abcusers] !fine! exclamation-point abuse

[Buddha Buck]

At 06:35 PM 05-01-2002 +, John Chambers you wrote:
>| On the other hand, I still think that the lack of a way to represent
>| dynamics and certain other commonly-used symbols is ABC's biggest
>| handicap.
>
>We could get into a real debate over what's the most serious handicap
>in  ABC.   My vote would waver between the lack of endings other than
>first and second, and the lack of a way to notate  non-classical  key
>signatures.  But of course I fixed those in my abc2ps clone.  I'd put
>dynamics right up there, though I'd lump this together with the  lack
>of other standard annotations.

The biggest handicap in ABC is lack of endings other than first and second, 
and no standard way to specify dynamics

The two biggest handicaps of ABC is inflexibility in repeat endings, no 
standard dynamics, and a lack of annotations...

Among the biggest handicaps of ABC is...

It's interesting... in response to Jeff's message, I've seen lots of people 
comments on his choice for the title of ABC's biggest handicap, but no 
comments on his proposal to fix his particular itch.  Are people still 
digesting it, or was it inedible, and not looked at?

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Re: [abcusers] !fine! exclamation-point abuse

[John Chambers]

| I had been firmly in the pro-!foo! camp until I read Phil Taylor's
| message.  Having digested that information, I agree that it would be a
| bad idea to break compatibility with abc2win files.

Well, I added a kludge to my jcabc2ps, so that  my  abc  tune  finder
could  handle  both  of  these.   I didn't find that it was a serious
problem.  The proposed use of !...! restricts the  contents  to  just
standard musical terms.  Most of those are single words. The worst is
!da Capo! which contains an embedded space.  What my kludge  does  is
scan  for  the  matching  !,  and  if it finds a newline, two or more
spaces, or any of a list of specific chars that never  occur  in  the
allowed terms, it treats the ! as an abc2winism and drops it.

If it finds the matching ! first, what it mostly does  rignt  now  is
act  as if it had been "^..." and proceeds, except that the string is
stored in a new variable next to the one that holds chords. I haven't
progressed  much  past this point of kludgery, yet.  But the point is
that the conflict with  abc2win's  notation  isn't  really  all  that
serious.

| On the other hand, I still think that the lack of a way to represent
| dynamics and certain other commonly-used symbols is ABC's biggest
| handicap.

We could get into a real debate over what's the most serious handicap
in  ABC.   My vote would waver between the lack of endings other than
first and second, and the lack of a way to notate  non-classical  key
signatures.  But of course I fixed those in my abc2ps clone.  I'd put
dynamics right up there, though I'd lump this together with the  lack
of other standard annotations.

I'm sure others will make other suggestions.   Let's  hear  from  the
crowds  that  really,  really  need a 4- or 6-line staff or alternate
shapes for note heads ...

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Re: [abcusers] Tunes with chords

[Phil Taylor]

>Am Montag, 29. April 2002 19:10 schrieb Phil Taylor:
>> Jack Campin wrote:
>> >Is this odd enough in the slurs department?  The BarFly documentation
>> >doesn't say how you'd prefer to write the -3 chords so I've left them
>> >as they are in the book.
>>
>> -3 chords are no problem.  At the moment, continued lines are a problem,
>> and the routine strips the continuation chars out and handles it one text
>> line at a time.
>
>Please excuse me for this simple musical question, but what exactly is a -3
>chord? If it means a minor third isn't it then a minor chord?

No, it means a chord with no third in it, just tonic and fifth doubled up
as necesary.

Phil Taylor


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[abcusers] Re: abc's biggest problem

[Jack Campin]

>> I think abc's biggest shortcomming is the fundamental of only being
>> able to put a chord where there is a melody-note. I consider this a
>> major bummer, and guess everybody (except me) writes stuff like
>>   | "A Am"C4 |
> Not me, I write
>| "C" A- "Cdim" A- "Dm7" A- "G9" A- | "C6" A2 z2 |
> Which is, by the way, also ugly...

I suggested a fix for this a few years ago, which nobody took up.  My
idea was to have an extra kind of dummy note, which would only have
time value (like a rest) but would have the effect of adding to the
length of the last preceding real note.  Say we used "y" for this - at
the time, nobody had pinched it for anything else.  Then Ulf's example
could be written

 | "C" A "Cdim" y "Dm7" y "G9" y- | "C6" A2 z2 |

The display you'd get would look the same as the rendering of a merged-
stave two-voice display the way Atte does it:

[V:1] | "C" x "Cdim" x "Dm7" x "G9" x | "C6" x2 x2 |
[V:2] | A4-   |  A2 z2 |

that is, the first bar would display (and play) with four evenly-spaced
chords, while the melody would be displayed and played as a single A4
note tied across to the next bar.
 
Now some people have grabbed "y", maybe we could do the same thing
by introducing a different kind of tie; this would have the effect
of absorbing the note tied on the right into the one on the left,
extending its duration.  The obvious symbol is "--", as there's no
other reason to write two ties together.  So Ulf's example becomes

 | "C" A-- "Cdim" A-- "Dm7" A-- "G9" A- | "C6" A2 z2 |

The last tie is a normal one because we want the A2 in the next bar
displayed separately (in Renaissance music with "hint" barlines, we
wouldn't).

Neither of these should be hard to implement, surely?

I prefer the "--" way as it eats less of the alphabet and seems more
readable; you don't need to know previous context to tell what pitch
is playing.

In fact you can already do exactly what Ulf wants in BarFly, using its
"y" symbol for horizontal space (nb, the tie is in a different place
in the ABC):

 | "C" A4- "Cdim" y "Dm7" y "G9" y | "C6" A2 z2 |

The problem with that is that the effect of BarFly's "y" depends
on the note-spacing rule used by the program, so it isn't portable
to other platforms (and probably won't even be portable to future
versions of BarFly).  The spacing of the chords you'd end up with
on a different implementation would be anybody's guess in a multi-
voice piece.


===  ===


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Re: abc's biggest problem (was: [abcusers] !fine! exclamation-point abuse)

[Wil Macaulay]

if your software supports non-printing rests (BarFly, Skink) you can write

| "A"C4 "Am"x |

wil
Ulf wrote:

> Am Mittwoch, 1. Mai 2002 15:55 schrieb Atte Andre Jensen:
> > Really? I think abc's biggest shortcomming is the fundamental of only
> > being able to put a chord where there is a melody-note. I consider this a
> > major bummer, and guess everybody (except me) writes stuff like
> >
> >  | "A Am"C4 |
>
> Not me, I write
>
> | "C" A- "Cdim" A- "Dm7" A- "G9" A- | "C6" A2 z2 |
>
> Which is, by the way, also ugly...
>
> Ulf
> To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: 
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Re: [abcusers] Tunes with chords

[Ulf]

Am Montag, 29. April 2002 19:10 schrieb Phil Taylor:
> Jack Campin wrote:
> >Is this odd enough in the slurs department?  The BarFly documentation
> >doesn't say how you'd prefer to write the -3 chords so I've left them
> >as they are in the book.
>
> -3 chords are no problem.  At the moment, continued lines are a problem,
> and the routine strips the continuation chars out and handles it one text
> line at a time.

Please excuse me for this simple musical question, but what exactly is a -3 
chord? If it means a minor third isn't it then a minor chord?

Ulf
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Re: abc's biggest problem (was: [abcusers] !fine! exclamation-point abuse)

[Ulf]

Am Mittwoch, 1. Mai 2002 15:55 schrieb Atte Andre Jensen:
> Really? I think abc's biggest shortcomming is the fundamental of only
> being able to put a chord where there is a melody-note. I consider this a
> major bummer, and guess everybody (except me) writes stuff like
>
>  | "A Am"C4 |

Not me, I write

| "C" A- "Cdim" A- "Dm7" A- "G9" A- | "C6" A2 z2 |

Which is, by the way, also ugly...

Ulf
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Re: [abcusers] jcabc2ps

[Ulf]

Am Mittwoch, 1. Mai 2002 15:38 schrieb John Chambers:
> One problem with Michael's documentation is  that  the  command  line
> options were never fully documented in one place.  I should fix this.
> I did start writing this, but it's not complete.  Maybe I'll  try  to
> find time today to work on it.

Yes. I have noticed that. I switched from Windows to Linux about one year ago. 

This means that I have entered the abc2ps world at a time when the 
documentation consists of a lot of changes to changes to changes etc. which 
may of course not be a big problem if you have worked a lot with abc2ps.

Also, I have noticed that any new developments of abc2ps carry other names - 
jaabc2ps, abcm2ps, jcabc2ps whereas there doesn't seem to be any new 
developments carrying the old name. This might either mean that abc2ps has 
now reached perfection and that there isn't any need of changing it any more, 
or it might mean that Michael has somthing else to do at the moment.



Here comes my personal opinion:

I think that all the command line switches are very interesting but normally 
it is difficult to remember them. It is quite an easy task to write a 
graphical user interface. I already did that and sent it to you apart from 
the mailing list. This interface doesn't do anything else than simply choose 
an input file, an output file and one of many format files.

Actually, most people are not going to format every single song differently. I 
have modified my format file the way that I can print out most songs I need 
so that they look good and fit into my A4 sized book. I have 4 format files 
and they don't differ much.

So what I suggest is that the same graphical user interface gets a button 
added which is called "Edit format file".

Then it presents a list of 20, or 50, or how many options exist which the user 
can then alter and save under a new name. This format file is then used until 
the user likes to make a new format file.

In this case we get away from the command line switches. If you are interested 
I will write this little GUI for you, it doesn't take many minutes.

Command line switches would only be necessary to pick up tunes from a 
songbook, say, number 3, number 9 and the "Blackbird" song - and some other 
minor things which can be placed on the GUI.



What is further needed is a complete list of extra features like k for an 
accent or K used for a saxophone accent etc. Also such features are only 
mentioned in different "changes" files.

I volunteer to list it all on a pretty HTML file to give you to put on your 
homepage. Unfortunately I am not quite sure of what features exactly exist, 
but I am willing to do this little piece of documentation work as a way of 
thanking for everything you guys did for me.

Ulf
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abc's biggest problem (was: [abcusers] !fine! exclamation-pointabuse)

[Atte Andre Jensen]

On Tue, 30 Apr 2002, Jeff Bigler wrote:

> On the other hand, I still think that the lack of a way to represent
> dynamics and certain other commonly-used symbols is ABC's biggest
> handicap.

Really? I think abc's biggest shortcomming is the fundamental of only
being able to put a chord where there is a melody-note. I consider this a
major bummer, and guess everybody (except me) writes stuff like
 | "A Am"C4 |
to get around the problem, but that gives you pretty ugly, random
placement of the chords.
-- 
l8er
Atte


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Re: [abcusers] jcabc2ps

[John Chambers]

| Am Mittwoch, 1. Mai 2002 11:31 schrieb Ulf:
| > Writing to a file can be made with
| >
| > > jcabc2ps bach.abc > bach.ps
| >
| > =3D=3D=3D=3D
| >
| > I suppose this is not what we expected?
| >
| > Ulf
| > To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to:
| > http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
|
| I am sorry! I have found it! Forget this email!
|
| It's just that when you run
|
| > jcabc2ps
|
| Then it still tells you you can do -o and -O =3D etc.
|
| Actually it says in the Changes file that this is the way it works.

Another thing that may change in a future version:  I've  started  to
have  cases  where  it  would  really  help if abc2ps could read from
standard input.  Then I could  get  data  from  a  download  program,
through  a  transposer or a program to extract one voice, and pipe it
directly into abc2ps without any temporary files. When I do this, the
bare  command  "jcabc2ps"  won't print the help message; it will just
sit there waiting for you to type in some ABC.  This is  also  normal
unix program behavior, of course.

But I haven't done that yet.

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Re: [abcusers] jcabc2ps

[John Chambers]

| Am Mittwoch, 1. Mai 2002 11:31 schrieb Ulf:
| > Writing to a file can be made with
| >
| > > jcabc2ps bach.abc > bach.ps
| >
| > =3D=3D=3D=3D
| >
| > I suppose this is not what we expected?
| >
| > Ulf
| > To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to:
| > http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
|
| I am sorry! I have found it! Forget this email!
|
| It's just that when you run
|
| > jcabc2ps
|
| Then it still tells you you can do -o and -O =3D etc.

Oops! I should change that message.  (There are too  many  things  to
remember here.  ;-)

| Actually it says in the Changes file that this is the way it works.
|
| Great program!!!

Yeah; Michael  did  a  pretty  good  job.   There  are  a  number  of
shortcomings, but I don't criticise him for that.  Since I use abc2ps
in my ABC tune finder, I've been slowly modifying it to  accept  most
of  the  things  that I find in ABC files on the web.  This will take
some time ...



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Re: [abcusers] jcabc2ps

[John Chambers]

| Hi,
|
| I downloaded the following file:
|
| http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/music/abc/src/jcabc2ps-20020422-src.tar.gz
|
| supposing that this is the latest release, then unpacked it and then ran=20
| "make" which seems to work.
|
| =3D=3D=3D=3D
|
| There is a "README" file saying that there will be made a lot of "out" fi=
| les=20
| and also the abc files will be converted to ps-files. This seems not to b=
| e=20
| the case.

Yeah; I forgot to mention that I'd removed this from the "all" entry.
There  were  getting to be just too many test files.  The "make test"
command will build them all.  And note that there are now  "abc"  and
"ps" subdirectories where the abc and ps files are kept.

Also, note the Changes file.  I should add a pointer  to  it  at  the
start of the README file.  (Pause .. Done.) This is where Micheal had
been putting descriptions of his changes and additions, and I've just
kept up the practice.

| Running this one:
|
| > jcabc2ps bach.abc -o
|
| or:
|
| > jcabc2ps bach.abc -O =3D
|
| results in the postscript being printed on screen.
|
| Writing to a file can be made with
|
| > jcabc2ps bach.abc > bach.ps
|
| =3D=3D=3D=3D
|
| I suppose this is not what we expected?

Heh.  Probably not.  The problem here was  that  I  found  a  lot  of
problems  with  the way that abc2ps did its output, and I've modified
the command-line options to make some  more  things  possible.   This
version  of  abc2ps now writes its postscript to standard output, and
can be used in a pipeline like normal unix programs.  So if you  have
some  postscript  programs  (as  I  do),  you  can just pipe them all
together and not fuss with temporary files.  Instead of  -o  and  -O,
just use the > symbol, as you discovered.

One benefit of this that I use at home is that if I have a file  with
a name like "JoesJig.abc", I can now print it by just typing:
   jcabc2ps JoesJig | lpr

I've looked at some of the other abc2ps clones, and noticed that this
sort  of change has been done in some of them, too.  Not in quite the
same way that I did, of course. But on a unix system, there are a lot
of advantages to having a program write to standard output.

Also, I'm planning a few more changes  to  command-line  options,  to
make them more like the practices that are becoming common.  The last
abc2ps release used both '-' and '+' as option flags, but  their  use
was  inconsistent.  I've modified a number of them to use '-' to mean
"off" or "disable", and '+' to mean "on" or "enable". The F option is
the  most useful:  -F means "don't read any .fmt files; +F file means
"read from foo.fmt".

One problem with Michael's documentation is  that  the  command  line
options were never fully documented in one place.  I should fix this.
I did start writing this, but it's not complete.  Maybe I'll  try  to
find time today to work on it.


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Re: [abcusers] !fine! exclamation-point abuse

[John Chambers]

Phil Taylor writes:
| John Chambers wrote:
|
| >Out of curiousity:  Are there any abc programs  currently  that  will
| >accept  something  like "^ff""Gm"G and do the right thing with it?  I
| >know that abc2ps won't; it simply ignores all but the  first  "chord"
| >symbol. This should be fixed, of course, but today it doesn't work in
| >Michael's abc2ps or in my (jcabc2ps) clone.   Either  of  the  quoted
| >symbols  alone  work, but if you use two of them, only one appears on
| >the page.
|
| It works in BarFly, as long as you don't put the two strings on top of
| each other (i.e. use the global option to put the guitar chords below
| the staff in this case).

Oh, yeah; my abc2ps clone handles that case, too.  I guess  I  should
have  thought  to  distinguish them.  (And then my message would have
been even wordier ;-).

There's also the case of several chords (as  in  "G""Em"B)  with  the
intent  that  they  be displayed one above the other.  This is fairly
common practice for alternate chords, and people have  asked  whether
any abc software accepts it.  There seems to be no obvious reason not
to use it in abc, at least if you're emailing a tune to a friend  who
reads abc.  But if software discards one of the chords, it does sorta
put a damper on the practice.

I've gotta spend a bit more time studying how abc2ps positions things
so that I can get things like this to work right.

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Re: [abcusers] jcabc2ps

[Ulf]

Am Mittwoch, 1. Mai 2002 11:31 schrieb Ulf:
> Writing to a file can be made with
>
> > jcabc2ps bach.abc > bach.ps
>
> 
>
> I suppose this is not what we expected?
>
> Ulf
> To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to:
> http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html

I am sorry! I have found it! Forget this email!

It's just that when you run

> jcabc2ps

Then it still tells you you can do -o and -O = etc.

Actually it says in the Changes file that this is the way it works.

Great program!!!

Ulf
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[abcusers] jcabc2ps

[Ulf]

Hi,

I downloaded the following file:

http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/music/abc/src/jcabc2ps-20020422-src.tar.gz

supposing that this is the latest release, then unpacked it and then ran 
"make" which seems to work.



There is a "README" file saying that there will be made a lot of "out" files 
and also the abc files will be converted to ps-files. This seems not to be 
the case.

Running this one:

> jcabc2ps bach.abc -o

or:

> jcabc2ps bach.abc -O =

results in the postscript being printed on screen.

Writing to a file can be made with

> jcabc2ps bach.abc > bach.ps



I suppose this is not what we expected?

Ulf
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Re: [abcusers] from ABC to image

[Phil Headford]

Dear Alberto,
Under Windows 9x, ABC2Win does this well. It can print to a 
bitmap.
Tell it that the page is landscape, push up the scaling, and 
the result is quite fine-grained. Import the resulting image 
file into a document, or manipulate it with your favourite 
graphics package.
Best of luck,
Flos

23/04/02 10:01:35, Alberto Manuel Brandão Simões 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>Hi!
>
>Is there any tool to convert abc document into an image? I 
was using
>abcm2ps, but when music is too big, it generates two images.
>
>Thanks
>
>Alberto
>-- 
>Alberto Manuel B. Simoes
>Departamento de Informática - Universidade do Minho
>http://alfarrabio.di.uminho.pt/~albie - http://numexp.sf.net
>
>To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: 
http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
>



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[abcusers] ADV:Harvest lots of Target Email address quickly

[Phil Headford]

Please don't send me more mail.
Thank you,
Flos



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Re: [abcusers] !fine! exclamation-point abuse

[Phil Taylor]

John Chambers wrote:

>Out of curiousity:  Are there any abc programs  currently  that  will
>accept  something  like "^ff""Gm"G and do the right thing with it?  I
>know that abc2ps won't; it simply ignores all but the  first  "chord"
>symbol. This should be fixed, of course, but today it doesn't work in
>Michael's abc2ps or in my (jcabc2ps) clone.   Either  of  the  quoted
>symbols  alone  work, but if you use two of them, only one appears on
>the page.

It works in BarFly, as long as you don't put the two strings on top of
each other (i.e. use the global option to put the guitar chords below
the staff in this case).

Phil Taylor


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