Re: [abcusers] Bar Lengths
Don't know if it helps, but the next release of HARMONY will implement parts, so you can put in a formula such as A ( (AB)*2 (AC)*2 )*3 Neil Jennings - Original Message - From: "John Chambers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: 02 December 2003 22:20 Subject: Re: [abcusers] Bar Lengths > Richard Robinson writes: > | On Wed, Nov 19, 2003 at 09:26:40PM -, Phil Headford wrote: > | > I may have missed this from an earlier discussion; apologies if so. > | > Real, working musicians in bands need to be able to choose (often in a matter of seconds) a tune to go with the next dance. > | > With a repertoire of hundreds (or a thousand or two) of tunes, the characteristics of each tune or set are not always easy to bring to mind. > | > So, many of us have little 5 or 6 page lists, which give some of our favourite tunes aranged by the following criteria: > | > > | > Tune type (polka, jig, reel, etc) > | > Key (and modulations) > | > Bar length > | > > | > So which field in ABC do I use for bar structure? I have been putting this info into a J: header field - eg 32=8*2+8+8 for Galopede, 40=8*2+12*2 for Herbert Smith's Polka, > | > 40=8*2+8+8*2 for Waterloo Dance. Some might think this academic, but for practical musicians, it's the second thing you want to know about a tune. > | > | It's a good question. I've wished, several times, that I'd done such a > | thing from the start. And maybe one day I'll get round to it, but in the > | meantime I've occasionally cheated, with things like "R:32-bar Jig"; > | which is better than nothing, but not the Right Way. > > I've often thought of this, too. It does seem like these two could be > combined in a form like: > R: Jig 32=8*2+8+8 > This would have the advantage that programs looking only for the > basic rhythm's name would find it where they expect it, and programs > wanting more details could look at the rest and try to make sense of > it. > > OTOH, the modifier first makes more sense in English and many other > languages. Thus, I have a number of tunes with rhythms like: > R: Boda-polska > > I like to include the hyphen to separate the modifier off from the > basic rhythm, though Swedes would of course not use the hyphen. > > In any case, I'd also have the criticism that I often want to know > more about the internal rhythm of measures, so I can find tunes that > truly match. Thus, single and double jigs often don't work well > together, for the same reason that marches and reels don't work well > together. I have a "strathspey" directory that includes tunes used > under that name at Scottish dances, but it's a jumbled mixture of > true strathspeys with shottishes and airs. They come from a lot of > sources, and the borderlines are fuzzy, making it difficult to label > them so that you can select just one kind of tune. > > I'd imagine that most rhythmic terms in most musical styles have the > same sort of problem. I don't know how to handle it well. > > > -- >O > <:#/> John Chambers >+ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > / \ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Bar Lengths
Richard Robinson writes: | On Wed, Nov 19, 2003 at 09:26:40PM -, Phil Headford wrote: | > I may have missed this from an earlier discussion; apologies if so. | > Real, working musicians in bands need to be able to choose (often in a matter of seconds) a tune to go with the next dance. | > With a repertoire of hundreds (or a thousand or two) of tunes, the characteristics of each tune or set are not always easy to bring to mind. | > So, many of us have little 5 or 6 page lists, which give some of our favourite tunes aranged by the following criteria: | > | > Tune type (polka, jig, reel, etc) | > Key (and modulations) | > Bar length | > | > So which field in ABC do I use for bar structure? I have been putting this info into a J: header field - eg 32=8*2+8+8 for Galopede, 40=8*2+12*2 for Herbert Smith's Polka, | > 40=8*2+8+8*2 for Waterloo Dance. Some might think this academic, but for practical musicians, it's the second thing you want to know about a tune. | | It's a good question. I've wished, several times, that I'd done such a | thing from the start. And maybe one day I'll get round to it, but in the | meantime I've occasionally cheated, with things like "R:32-bar Jig"; | which is better than nothing, but not the Right Way. I've often thought of this, too. It does seem like these two could be combined in a form like: R: Jig 32=8*2+8+8 This would have the advantage that programs looking only for the basic rhythm's name would find it where they expect it, and programs wanting more details could look at the rest and try to make sense of it. OTOH, the modifier first makes more sense in English and many other languages. Thus, I have a number of tunes with rhythms like: R: Boda-polska I like to include the hyphen to separate the modifier off from the basic rhythm, though Swedes would of course not use the hyphen. In any case, I'd also have the criticism that I often want to know more about the internal rhythm of measures, so I can find tunes that truly match. Thus, single and double jigs often don't work well together, for the same reason that marches and reels don't work well together. I have a "strathspey" directory that includes tunes used under that name at Scottish dances, but it's a jumbled mixture of true strathspeys with shottishes and airs. They come from a lot of sources, and the borderlines are fuzzy, making it difficult to label them so that you can select just one kind of tune. I'd imagine that most rhythmic terms in most musical styles have the same sort of problem. I don't know how to handle it well. -- O <:#/> John Chambers + <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> / \ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Bar Lengths
On Wed, Nov 19, 2003 at 09:26:40PM -, Phil Headford wrote: > I may have missed this from an earlier discussion; apologies if so. > Real, working musicians in bands need to be able to choose (often in a matter of > seconds) a tune to go with the next dance. > With a repertoire of hundreds (or a thousand or two) of tunes, the characteristics > of each tune or set are not always easy to bring to mind. > So, many of us have little 5 or 6 page lists, which give some of our favourite tunes > aranged by the following criteria: > > Tune type (polka, jig, reel, etc) > Key (and modulations) > Bar length > > So which field in ABC do I use for bar structure? I have been putting this info into > a J: header field - eg 32=8*2+8+8 for Galopede, 40=8*2+12*2 for Herbert Smith's > Polka, > 40=8*2+8+8*2 for Waterloo Dance. Some might think this academic, but for practical > musicians, it's the second thing you want to know about a tune. It's a good question. I've wished, several times, that I'd done such a thing from the start. And maybe one day I'll get round to it, but in the meantime I've occasionally cheated, with things like "R:32-bar Jig"; which is better than nothing, but not the Right Way. As to what would be the Right Thing To Do ... I can't seem to find a definition for J: - I'm probably looking at the wrong standard - but would be reluctant to use up the main namespace (some people would regard this as vital, others will say it's no use to them, cue many of the usual arguments), so I'd think about about using the "%%" to invent my own, for what would be, to start with, an individual usage. Something like "%%PH-barstructure: 40=8*2+12*12", where the "PH" helps mark it as "yours", ie keeps it clear against the day when somebody else invents their own variant with a different layout or subtly diferent meaning. Or you could pick up Barry's proposal for I: , something like "I:PH barstructure:" ?? -- Richard Robinson "The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] Bar Lengths
I may have missed this from an earlier discussion; apologies if so. Real, working musicians in bands need to be able to choose (often in a matter of seconds) a tune to go with the next dance. With a repertoire of hundreds (or a thousand or two) of tunes, the characteristics of each tune or set are not always easy to bring to mind. So, many of us have little 5 or 6 page lists, which give some of our favourite tunes aranged by the following criteria: Tune type (polka, jig, reel, etc) Key (and modulations) Bar length So which field in ABC do I use for bar structure? I have been putting this info into a J: header field - eg 32=8*2+8+8 for Galopede, 40=8*2+12*2 for Herbert Smith's Polka, 40=8*2+8+8*2 for Waterloo Dance. Some might think this academic, but for practical musicians, it's the second thing you want to know about a tune. Phil (Flos) Headford To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
