Re: AW: [abcusers] Does anybody kow this ballad?

[Frank Nordberg]

Frank Nordberg wrote:
> 
> Hi Simon,

[etc.]


this message was meant to go to Simon privately, but it seems i goofed.
No secrets there at all, of course, but sorry to bother the entire list
with the message.


Frank
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Re: AW: [abcusers] Does anybody kow this ballad?

[Frank Nordberg]

Hi Simon,

Glad to hear you like it too :-)

As you've probably noticed, Phil have already come up with the source,
so you don't have to bother about that. I could always use more
information about the tune, though.


Frank


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> Hello Frank,
> 
> This is one of my favorite ballads on Julie Murphys "black Mountais revisited" 
>album, when I am back home I will see if there is any source given
> 
> cu
> Simon
> 
> >
> > Von: Frank Nordberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Datum: 2001/06/20 Wed PM 12:26:10 CEST
> > An: abcusers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Betreff: [abcusers] Does anybody kow this ballad?
> >
> > Perhaps a little digression from all the serious talk recently. A few
> > weeks ago I suddenly realized that the title track of Pentangle's Cruel
> > Sister is the same (rather grotesque) story as "Harpen", one of the best
> > known Norwegian medieval ballads.
> >
> > Obviously, neither Pentangle's version nor the "official" Norwegian are
> > originals - Pentangle's is clearly late 16th Century, while the ones you
> > find in Norwegian collections are even more recent. Also, the ballad
> > seems to have some stylistic traits that suggest it's neither British
> > nor Norwegian originally.
> >
> > Does anybody have any information about the ballad?
> >
> > Frank Nordberg
> >
> > ---
> >
> > Here's the Pentangle ballad. My stone disk player is a bit unreliable at
> > the moment, so I had to write down the music from memory, but I think I
> > got it right.
> >
> > Oh, and by the way - this one is sure to get messed up in the e mail.
> > But I couldn't find *any* way to get the words through in a way that
> > abc2ps could figure out :-(
> >
> > X:1
> > T:Cruel sister
> > C:anon.
> > O:Scotland?
> > N:Based on Pentangle's recording (written down from memory)
> > Z:Transcribed by Frank Nordberg - http://www.musicaviva.com
> > M:3/4
> > L:1/8
> > Q:1/4=88
> > K:Dm
> > %Verses 1 and 3:
> > z A, DE|"Dm"F>F EF GF|"A"E3 z FG|"F"A2AG A > w:There lived a lad-y by the North Sea shore. (Lay the bent to the
> > bon-nie broom) Two daught-ers
> > "Dm"F3(E/F/) GF|"C"E3 z "Dm"D E/F/|"C"GF EE|"Dm"D2|]
> > w:were the_ babes she bore (Fa la la la la la la la la la)
> > %Other verses:
> > z A, DE|"Dm"F3(E/F/) GF|"A"E3 z FG|"F"A2AG A > w:As one grew bright as in the sun, (Lay the bent to the bon-nie broom)
> > so coal black
> > "Dm"F3(E/F/) GF|"C"E3 z "Dm"D E/F/|"C"GF EE|"Dm"D2|]
> > w:grew the_ oth-er one. (Fa la la la la la la la la la)
> > W:
> > W:There lived a lady by the North Sea shore.
> > W:  Lay the bent to the bonnie broom
> > W:Two daughters were the babes she bore.
> > W:  Fa la la la la la la la la la
> > W:
> > W:As one grew bright as in the sun,
> > W:so coal black grew the other one.
> > W:
> > W:A knight came riding to the lady's door.
> > W:He'd travelled far to be their wooer.
> > W:
> > W:He courted one with gloves and rings,
> > W:but loved the other above all things.
> > W:
> > W:Oh sister will you go with me
> > W:to watch the ships sail on the sea?
> > W:
> > W:She took her sister by the hand
> > W:and led her down to the North Sea strand.
> > W:
> > W:And as they stood on the windy shore,
> > W:the dark girl threw her sister o'er.
> > W:
> > W:Sometimes she sank, sometimes she swam,
> > W:crying "sister, reach to me your hand.
> > W:
> > W:Oh sister, sister let me live,
> > W:and all that's mine I'll surely give."
> > W:
> > W:"It's your truelove I'll have and more,
> > W:but thou shalt never come ashore."
> > W:
> > W:And there she floated like a swan.
> > W:The salt sea bore her body on.
> > W:
> > W:Two minstrels walked along the strand
> > W:and saw the maiden float to land.
> > W:
> > W:They made a harp of her breast bone
> > W:whose sound would melt a heart of stone.
> > W:
> > W:They took three locks of her yellow hair
> > W:and with them strung the harp so rare.
> > W:
> > W:They went into her father's hall
> > W:to play the harp before them all.
> > W:
> > W:But as they laid it on a stone,
> > W:the harp began to play alone.
> > W:
> > W:The first string sang a doleful sound;
> > W:The bride her younger sister drwoned.
> > W:
> > W:The second string as that they tried,
> > W:in terror sits the black-haired bride.
> > W:
> > W:The third string sang beneath their bow,
> > W:and surely now her tears will flow.
> >
> > ---
> > To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: 
>http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
> >
> 
> To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: 
>http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html


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AW: [abcusers] Does anybody kow this ballad?

[simon . wascher]

Hello Frank,

This is one of my favorite ballads on Julie Murphys "black Mountais revisited" album, 
when I am back home I will see if there is any source given

cu
Simon

> 
> Von: Frank Nordberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Datum: 2001/06/20 Wed PM 12:26:10 CEST
> An: abcusers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Betreff: [abcusers] Does anybody kow this ballad?
> 
> Perhaps a little digression from all the serious talk recently. A few
> weeks ago I suddenly realized that the title track of Pentangle's Cruel
> Sister is the same (rather grotesque) story as "Harpen", one of the best
> known Norwegian medieval ballads.
> 
> Obviously, neither Pentangle's version nor the "official" Norwegian are
> originals - Pentangle's is clearly late 16th Century, while the ones you
> find in Norwegian collections are even more recent. Also, the ballad
> seems to have some stylistic traits that suggest it's neither British
> nor Norwegian originally.
> 
> Does anybody have any information about the ballad?
> 
> Frank Nordberg
> 
> ---
> 
> Here's the Pentangle ballad. My stone disk player is a bit unreliable at
> the moment, so I had to write down the music from memory, but I think I
> got it right.
> 
> Oh, and by the way - this one is sure to get messed up in the e mail.
> But I couldn't find *any* way to get the words through in a way that
> abc2ps could figure out :-(
> 
> X:1
> T:Cruel sister
> C:anon.
> O:Scotland?
> N:Based on Pentangle's recording (written down from memory)
> Z:Transcribed by Frank Nordberg - http://www.musicaviva.com
> M:3/4
> L:1/8
> Q:1/4=88
> K:Dm
> %Verses 1 and 3:
> z A, DE|"Dm"F>F EF GF|"A"E3 z FG|"F"A2AG A w:There lived a lad-y by the North Sea shore. (Lay the bent to the
> bon-nie broom) Two daught-ers
> "Dm"F3(E/F/) GF|"C"E3 z "Dm"D E/F/|"C"GF EE|"Dm"D2|]
> w:were the_ babes she bore (Fa la la la la la la la la la)
> %Other verses:
> z A, DE|"Dm"F3(E/F/) GF|"A"E3 z FG|"F"A2AG A w:As one grew bright as in the sun, (Lay the bent to the bon-nie broom)
> so coal black
> "Dm"F3(E/F/) GF|"C"E3 z "Dm"D E/F/|"C"GF EE|"Dm"D2|]
> w:grew the_ oth-er one. (Fa la la la la la la la la la)
> W:
> W:There lived a lady by the North Sea shore.
> W:  Lay the bent to the bonnie broom
> W:Two daughters were the babes she bore.
> W:  Fa la la la la la la la la la
> W:
> W:As one grew bright as in the sun,
> W:so coal black grew the other one.
> W:
> W:A knight came riding to the lady's door.
> W:He'd travelled far to be their wooer.
> W:
> W:He courted one with gloves and rings,
> W:but loved the other above all things.
> W:
> W:Oh sister will you go with me
> W:to watch the ships sail on the sea?
> W:
> W:She took her sister by the hand
> W:and led her down to the North Sea strand.
> W:
> W:And as they stood on the windy shore,
> W:the dark girl threw her sister o'er.
> W:
> W:Sometimes she sank, sometimes she swam,
> W:crying "sister, reach to me your hand.
> W:
> W:Oh sister, sister let me live,
> W:and all that's mine I'll surely give."
> W:
> W:"It's your truelove I'll have and more,
> W:but thou shalt never come ashore."
> W:
> W:And there she floated like a swan.
> W:The salt sea bore her body on.
> W:
> W:Two minstrels walked along the strand
> W:and saw the maiden float to land.
> W:
> W:They made a harp of her breast bone
> W:whose sound would melt a heart of stone.
> W:
> W:They took three locks of her yellow hair
> W:and with them strung the harp so rare.
> W:
> W:They went into her father's hall
> W:to play the harp before them all.
> W:
> W:But as they laid it on a stone,
> W:the harp began to play alone.
> W:
> W:The first string sang a doleful sound;
> W:The bride her younger sister drwoned.
> W:
> W:The second string as that they tried,
> W:in terror sits the black-haired bride.
> W:
> W:The third string sang beneath their bow,
> W:and surely now her tears will flow.
> 
> ---
> To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: 
>http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
> 



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Re: [abcusers] Does anybody kow this ballad?

[Frank Nordberg]

Just want to say thanks to Phil and Jack for all the information they
came up with :-)


Frank
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Re: [abcusers] Does anybody kow this ballad?

[Jack Campin]

> the title track of Pentangle's Cruel
> Sister is the same (rather grotesque) story as "Harpen", one of the best
> known Norwegian medieval ballads.
> Obviously, neither Pentangle's version nor the "official" Norwegian are
> originals - Pentangle's is clearly late 16th Century, while the ones you
> find in Norwegian collections are even more recent. Also, the ballad
> seems to have some stylistic traits that suggest it's neither British
> nor Norwegian originally.
> Does anybody have any information about the ballad?

Usually known in Scotland as "The Twa Sisters o Binnorie" - it's in
every ballad collection you could shake a stick at.

It's also the story of Mahler's cantata "Das Klagende Lied"; I think
he got it from German folklore.  I would guess it originated among the
Germanic peoples some time in the pre-Christian Dark Ages at the very
latest.

===  ===


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Re: [abcusers] Does anybody kow this ballad?

[Phil Taylor]

OK, here's the info from Child.  The Pentangle song seems to be a
conflation of two Child ballads, #1 "Riddles Wisely Expounded" and
#10 "The Twa Sisters".  The first few verses and the refrain are
taken from #1 and the bulk of the story from #10.

In #1 the Knight takes the youngest sister (of three) to bed, and in
the morning makes her answer three riddles before he'll agree to
marry her.

In #10 the elder (ugly) sister murders the younger out of jealousy
by drowning her.  The body is washed ashore and discovered by a bunch
of passing musicians who take various bits of her and make a musical
instrument from it (as one does under those circumstances).  Later,
they play a gig at the elder sister's wedding and the instrument starts
singing and blows the gaff on the murderess.

According to Child, #10 is popular in Scandinavia, and he lists 12 versions
from Norway, 10 from Denmark, 12 from Sweden, 2 from Iceland and 4 from
Faroe.  It's also been collected in Poland, Estonia and Slovakia.  He
gives English words for 21 (mostly Scots) versions.

Phil Taylor


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Re: [abcusers] Does anybody kow this ballad?

[Phil Taylor]

>Perhaps a little digression from all the serious talk recently. A few
>weeks ago I suddenly realized that the title track of Pentangle's Cruel
>Sister is the same (rather grotesque) story as "Harpen", one of the best
>known Norwegian medieval ballads.
>
>Obviously, neither Pentangle's version nor the "official" Norwegian are
>originals - Pentangle's is clearly late 16th Century, while the ones you
>find in Norwegian collections are even more recent. Also, the ballad
>seems to have some stylistic traits that suggest it's neither British
>nor Norwegian originally.
>
>Does anybody have any information about the ballad?

It's very well known.  As far as I remember it's the first ballad listed
in Child, there are lots and lots of versions and it's found in many
languages (which, of course implies that it is extremely ancient).
If nobody else posts any more detailed information, I'll look it
up later and send you the info.

Phil Taylor
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[abcusers] Does anybody kow this ballad?

[Frank Nordberg]

Perhaps a little digression from all the serious talk recently. A few
weeks ago I suddenly realized that the title track of Pentangle's Cruel
Sister is the same (rather grotesque) story as "Harpen", one of the best
known Norwegian medieval ballads.

Obviously, neither Pentangle's version nor the "official" Norwegian are
originals - Pentangle's is clearly late 16th Century, while the ones you
find in Norwegian collections are even more recent. Also, the ballad
seems to have some stylistic traits that suggest it's neither British
nor Norwegian originally.

Does anybody have any information about the ballad?

Frank Nordberg

---

Here's the Pentangle ballad. My stone disk player is a bit unreliable at
the moment, so I had to write down the music from memory, but I think I
got it right.

Oh, and by the way - this one is sure to get messed up in the e mail.
But I couldn't find *any* way to get the words through in a way that
abc2ps could figure out :-(

X:1
T:Cruel sister
C:anon.
O:Scotland?
N:Based on Pentangle's recording (written down from memory)
Z:Transcribed by Frank Nordberg - http://www.musicaviva.com
M:3/4
L:1/8
Q:1/4=88
K:Dm
%Verses 1 and 3:
z A, DE|"Dm"F>F EF GF|"A"E3 z FG|"F"A2AG AE|"Dm"D2|]
w:were the_ babes she bore (Fa la la la la la la la la la)
%Other verses:
z A, DE|"Dm"F3(E/F/) GF|"A"E3 z FG|"F"A2AG AE|"Dm"D2|]
w:grew the_ oth-er one. (Fa la la la la la la la la la)
W:
W:There lived a lady by the North Sea shore.
W:  Lay the bent to the bonnie broom
W:Two daughters were the babes she bore.
W:  Fa la la la la la la la la la
W:
W:As one grew bright as in the sun,
W:so coal black grew the other one.
W:
W:A knight came riding to the lady's door.
W:He'd travelled far to be their wooer.
W:
W:He courted one with gloves and rings,
W:but loved the other above all things.
W:
W:Oh sister will you go with me
W:to watch the ships sail on the sea?
W:
W:She took her sister by the hand
W:and led her down to the North Sea strand.
W:
W:And as they stood on the windy shore,
W:the dark girl threw her sister o'er.
W:
W:Sometimes she sank, sometimes she swam,
W:crying "sister, reach to me your hand.
W:
W:Oh sister, sister let me live,
W:and all that's mine I'll surely give."
W:
W:"It's your truelove I'll have and more,
W:but thou shalt never come ashore."
W:
W:And there she floated like a swan.
W:The salt sea bore her body on.
W:
W:Two minstrels walked along the strand
W:and saw the maiden float to land.
W:
W:They made a harp of her breast bone
W:whose sound would melt a heart of stone.
W:
W:They took three locks of her yellow hair
W:and with them strung the harp so rare.
W:
W:They went into her father's hall
W:to play the harp before them all.
W:
W:But as they laid it on a stone,
W:the harp began to play alone.
W:
W:The first string sang a doleful sound;
W:The bride her younger sister drwoned.
W:
W:The second string as that they tried,
W:in terror sits the black-haired bride.
W:
W:The third string sang beneath their bow,
W:and surely now her tears will flow.

---
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