Re: [Accessibility-ia2] Finding the most recent target of the most recent activation of an in page link
After all our discussion I believe we've reached the point where we can say the proposal at https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/IA2_1.3#Anchor_target is accepted. However, I don't see a need for IAccessibleDocument to derive from a super-interface, so I propose that this be changed. Pete On 2/21/12 8:46 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote: Hi, Pete. I liked IAccessibleDocument interface because anchorTarget is applicable to document accessible and doesn't make huge sense on IAccessible2. From implementation point of view we would need to get anchorTarget on document accessible and then check if obtained anchor target is within an accessible you call this method on. Thank you. Alex. On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 6:57 AM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com wrote: Thanks Jamie, It appears there is not strong preference by anyone for any of the various options. Your observation about state vs relationship is interesting and is enough to motivate me to choose a method over a relation. Does anyone have any preference regarding whether the anchorTarget method should reside in IAccessible2_2 or IAccessibleDocument. The latter would be a new interface with one method. Pete On 2/12/12 8:45 PM, James Teh wrote: On 10/02/2012 4:13 AM, Pete Brunet wrote: so maybe it's OK to have a new interface and method, but I'd like to get some feed back from others on if a method or relation is preferred. It makes sense to use existing mechanisms as much as possible rather than introducing new methods, so long as those mechanisms fit the proposal and don't incur performance or other problems. I feel a relation fits well enough here, but I don't feel strongly enough about it to fight for it if others disagree. :) I'd pose the question: what makes this so special as to justify a new method? Why is it more special than, say, flowsTo or labelledBy? I guess it doesn't fit relations entirely, as it isn't strictly related so much as state information. If that argument is consensus, fair enough. Jamie -- Pete Brunet a11ysoft - Accessibility Architecture and Development (512) 467-4706 (work), (512) 689-4155 (cell) Skype: pete.brunet IM: ptbrunet (AOL, Google), ptbru...@live.com (MSN) http://www.a11ysoft.com/about/ Ionosphere: WS4G ___ Accessibility-ia2 mailing list Accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2 -- *Pete Brunet* a11ysoft - Accessibility Architecture and Development (512) 467-4706 (work), (512) 689-4155 (cell) Skype: pete.brunet IM: ptbrunet (AOL, Google), ptbru...@live.com (MSN) http://www.a11ysoft.com/about/ Ionosphere: WS4G ___ Accessibility-ia2 mailing list Accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2
Re: [Accessibility-ia2] Finding the most recent target of the most recent activation of an in page link
You mean change from IAccessible2 to IUnknown? If so then fine with me since it looks similar to other interfaces. Alex. On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 7:08 AM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com wrote: After all our discussion I believe we've reached the point where we can say the proposal at https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/IA2_1.3#Anchor_target is accepted. However, I don't see a need for IAccessibleDocument to derive from a super-interface, so I propose that this be changed. Pete On 2/21/12 8:46 PM, Alexander Surkov wrote: Hi, Pete. I liked IAccessibleDocument interface because anchorTarget is applicable to document accessible and doesn't make huge sense on IAccessible2. From implementation point of view we would need to get anchorTarget on document accessible and then check if obtained anchor target is within an accessible you call this method on. Thank you. Alex. On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 6:57 AM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com wrote: Thanks Jamie, It appears there is not strong preference by anyone for any of the various options. Your observation about state vs relationship is interesting and is enough to motivate me to choose a method over a relation. Does anyone have any preference regarding whether the anchorTarget method should reside in IAccessible2_2 or IAccessibleDocument. The latter would be a new interface with one method. Pete On 2/12/12 8:45 PM, James Teh wrote: On 10/02/2012 4:13 AM, Pete Brunet wrote: so maybe it's OK to have a new interface and method, but I'd like to get some feed back from others on if a method or relation is preferred. It makes sense to use existing mechanisms as much as possible rather than introducing new methods, so long as those mechanisms fit the proposal and don't incur performance or other problems. I feel a relation fits well enough here, but I don't feel strongly enough about it to fight for it if others disagree. :) I'd pose the question: what makes this so special as to justify a new method? Why is it more special than, say, flowsTo or labelledBy? I guess it doesn't fit relations entirely, as it isn't strictly related so much as state information. If that argument is consensus, fair enough. Jamie -- Pete Brunet a11ysoft - Accessibility Architecture and Development (512) 467-4706 (work), (512) 689-4155 (cell) Skype: pete.brunet IM: ptbrunet (AOL, Google), ptbru...@live.com (MSN) http://www.a11ysoft.com/about/ Ionosphere: WS4G ___ Accessibility-ia2 mailing list Accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2 -- Pete Brunet a11ysoft - Accessibility Architecture and Development (512) 467-4706 (work), (512) 689-4155 (cell) Skype: pete.brunet IM: ptbrunet (AOL, Google), ptbru...@live.com (MSN) http://www.a11ysoft.com/about/ Ionosphere: WS4G ___ Accessibility-ia2 mailing list Accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2 ___ Accessibility-ia2 mailing list Accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2
Re: [Accessibility-ia2] Finding the most recent target of the most recent activation of an in page link
Hi, Pete. I liked IAccessibleDocument interface because anchorTarget is applicable to document accessible and doesn't make huge sense on IAccessible2. From implementation point of view we would need to get anchorTarget on document accessible and then check if obtained anchor target is within an accessible you call this method on. Thank you. Alex. On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 6:57 AM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com wrote: Thanks Jamie, It appears there is not strong preference by anyone for any of the various options. Your observation about state vs relationship is interesting and is enough to motivate me to choose a method over a relation. Does anyone have any preference regarding whether the anchorTarget method should reside in IAccessible2_2 or IAccessibleDocument. The latter would be a new interface with one method. Pete On 2/12/12 8:45 PM, James Teh wrote: On 10/02/2012 4:13 AM, Pete Brunet wrote: so maybe it's OK to have a new interface and method, but I'd like to get some feed back from others on if a method or relation is preferred. It makes sense to use existing mechanisms as much as possible rather than introducing new methods, so long as those mechanisms fit the proposal and don't incur performance or other problems. I feel a relation fits well enough here, but I don't feel strongly enough about it to fight for it if others disagree. :) I'd pose the question: what makes this so special as to justify a new method? Why is it more special than, say, flowsTo or labelledBy? I guess it doesn't fit relations entirely, as it isn't strictly related so much as state information. If that argument is consensus, fair enough. Jamie -- Pete Brunet a11ysoft - Accessibility Architecture and Development (512) 467-4706 (work), (512) 689-4155 (cell) Skype: pete.brunet IM: ptbrunet (AOL, Google), ptbru...@live.com (MSN) http://www.a11ysoft.com/about/ Ionosphere: WS4G ___ Accessibility-ia2 mailing list Accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2 ___ Accessibility-ia2 mailing list Accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2
Re: [Accessibility-ia2] Finding the most recent target of the most recent activation of an in page link
On 10/02/2012 4:13 AM, Pete Brunet wrote: so maybe it's OK to have a new interface and method, but I'd like to get some feed back from others on if a method or relation is preferred. It makes sense to use existing mechanisms as much as possible rather than introducing new methods, so long as those mechanisms fit the proposal and don't incur performance or other problems. I feel a relation fits well enough here, but I don't feel strongly enough about it to fight for it if others disagree. :) I'd pose the question: what makes this so special as to justify a new method? Why is it more special than, say, flowsTo or labelledBy? I guess it doesn't fit relations entirely, as it isn't strictly related so much as state information. If that argument is consensus, fair enough. Jamie -- James Teh Director, NV Access Limited Email: ja...@nvaccess.org Web site: http://www.nvaccess.org/ Phone: +61 7 5667 8372 ___ Accessibility-ia2 mailing list Accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2
Re: [Accessibility-ia2] Finding the most recent target of the most recent activation of an in page link
If you both think that new method is overkill then I'm fine to go with relations approach. However this relation makes sense on document accessible only and it'd be nice to introduce new method to obtain it, otherwise AT needs to crawl hierarchy. Next IA2 spec is going to provide a method to get enumvariant for relation of type, that could be used to get a single relation target. It can be named as 'scrolledTo' and be a generic propose relation, i.e. whenever scrolling happens the relation target is changed. Thank you. Alex. On Sat, Sep 3, 2011 at 7:24 AM, James Teh ja...@nvaccess.org wrote: On 3/09/2011 7:50 AM, Pete Brunet wrote: The originating issue is here: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=617544 Alex's solution is here: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/IA2_1.3#Anchor_target Due to the fact that this isn't a widespread issue I'd rather use a new relation than a new method to resolve the problem. I agree, and a relation was my original proposal. I think a relation is a nice fit for this issue. Note that this definitely requires the new method for getting a single relation without iteration. I am proposing a new relation, hasFlowedTo. Hmm. I'm not sure about the name, but I can't come up with anything better myself. Your explanation makes sense, but it sounds a little too much like flowsFrom/flowsTo and I'm concerned that might cause confusion. Jamie -- James Teh Vice President, Developer NV Access Inc, ABN 61773362390 Email: ja...@nvaccess.org Web site: http://www.nvaccess.org/ ___ Accessibility-ia2 mailing list Accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org https://lists.linux-foundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2 ___ Accessibility-ia2 mailing list Accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org https://lists.linux-foundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2
[Accessibility-ia2] Finding the most recent target of the most recent activation of an in page link
The originating issue is here: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=617544 Alex's solution is here: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/IA2_1.3#Anchor_target Due to the fact that this isn't a widespread issue I'd rather use a new relation than a new method to resolve the problem. I am proposing a new relation, hasFlowedTo. This is a generic name which could be suitable in many situations. A proposed text is: The object which has this relation is related to a group of additional objects, the sum of which make up a user's experience. The relation's target object is the object which has most recently been presented to the user. A concrete example is a section of a web page that has been navigated to via an in page link such as a href=#foo. Pete -- *Pete Brunet* a11ysoft - Accessibility Architecture and Development (512) 467-4706 (work), (512) 689-4155 (cell) Skype: pete.brunet IM: ptbrunet (AOL, Google), ptbru...@live.com (MSN) http://www.a11ysoft.com/about/ Ionosphere: WS4G On 6/28/2011 10:51 AM, Pete Brunet wrote: Hi Alex, I did mean object attribute vs relation. At this point in the discussion either of the three (object attribute, relation, method) is OK with me. Since the requirement does not seem to be an overwhelming one (from the input we have so far) perhaps adding an object attribute or relation is the most pragmatic solution. Pete On 6/28/2011 5:05 AM, Alexander Surkov wrote: Hi, Pete. I don't recall who exactly came up with new interface suggestion, maybe it was me based on IA2 architecture in Gecko. Assuming you meant new relation rather than object attribute I believe relations approach work as generic approach. Any getter property that returns an object mapped well to relations mechanism, for example, IATable2::caption property can be exposed by relations. The question is when we want to introduce new method rather than reuse existing generic-propose method. Thank you. Alex. On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 12:41 PM, Pete Brunet p...@a11ysoft.com mailto:p...@a11ysoft.com wrote: Thanks Carolyn, Rich, When I read accessibleDocument I was thinking of the work done by Cathy Laws back around 2005. I finally found that document at http://accessibility.linuxfoundation.org/a11yspecs/atspi/adoc/ADOC_ATK.html Is this what you were thinking of? If so please start up a new thread to discuss that. By the way, ATK does have AtkDocument, documented at http://developer.gnome.org/atk/2.0/AtkDocument.html with these methods: atk_document_get_document_type atk_document_get_document atk_document_get_attribute_value atk_document_set_attribute_value atk_document_get_attributes atk_document_get_locale From what I remember we didn't see a need for the first 4 methods. We put the last two into the IAccessible2 interface so at this point IA2 doesn't have an IAccessibleDocument interface. Jamie, In the bug at https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=617544 you proposed solving the problem with a new relation or a new accNavigate constant and in the new 1.3 document someone else, perhaps Alex, has proposed a new interface with one method, IAccessibleDocument::anchorTarget. (Perhaps that should have been currentAnchor?) Could the problem be solved with a new object attribute? Pete ___ Accessibility-ia2 mailing list Accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org https://lists.linux-foundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2
