Re: [AI] Are publishers in India obligated to provide soft copies to the blind on request?

[Avichal Bhatnagar]

Hi Rahul,
First of all, a big thank you for taking out time to address my query.
Since you have been doing commendable work in the field of disability
in India, therefore I know your efforts in this regard will be best.
Yeah sure, I shall eagerly wait for communication from mission accessibility.
Also, I only had an oral communication with the publisher on phone,
but if you want, I can shoot an email to them which can be used in the
court.
Thanks,
Avichal

On 8/19/23, Mission Accessibility  wrote:
> Dear avichal,, thanks for raising this extremely important issue. Subject to
> doing a conflict check in terms of our existing obligations, Mission
> Accessibility would be very happy to take up this cause for you in the court
> of the chief commissioner for persons with disabilities. I would be happy to
> appear on your behalf. I am passing this email on to my colleague Mahoor,
> who leads our grievance redressal and strategic intervention work, for her
> to obtain detailed specifications from you on who the publisher is and
> whether there is anything in writing that we can annexed with the complaint.
> And also the logistics and scope of work. Thanks very much.
>
> Rahul
>
> Sent from Outlook for iOS
> 
> From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in  on
> behalf of Pinkesh Tailor 
> Sent: Friday, August 18, 2023 3:54:51 PM
> To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in 
> Subject: Re: [AI] Are publishers in India obligated to provide soft copies
> to the blind on request?
>
> I think, you should raise this at CCPD. Until and unless these matters
> are silent, there would be no update on this issue by the government.
> Secondly since the demand for higher, and doctoral studies are very
> poor amongst blind, do not expect these NGO's to offer any help to you
> in this regards. This is your own battle, and you have to fight on
> your own. Others would just comment, and give you some advise. I wish
> that there would be a law under RPWD act which would mandate all at
> least Indian publisher to make the books available in multiple
> formats. Just as it is available in developed countries.
>
> On 8/18/23, Aravind R  wrote:
>> yes. sugamya and bookshare are good reading sources for blind. we can
>> link with our mobile apps like voice dream reader or easy reader and
>> get books from those libraries any time.
>>
>> On 17/08/2023, Prerna Sobti  wrote:
>>> Hi
>>>
>>>
>>> Gratitude for explaining me all this
>>>
>>>
>>> I was not aware of this at all
>>>
>>> Best
>>> Prerna Sobti
>>>
 On 17-Aug-2023, at 8:04 AM, prashant...@gmail.com wrote:

 Sugamya Pustakalaya does not record or convert any book on its own.
 Sugamya Pustakalaya is an online library where various NGOs are
 uploading
 the books converted by them.
 Audio recording of a book is a time consuming and expensive affair if
 decent quality is to be achieved. Not every book can be recorded, no
 one
 has the resources for it.
 And then learners do not always want the audio version, eBook is being
 increasingly preferred.
 In Sugamya Pustakalaya audio books in DAISY format, eBooks in EPUB
 format
 and some Braille files are also available. All books are accessible and
 the collection keeps growing.

 -Original Message-
 From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in 
 On
 Behalf Of Prerna Sobti
 Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2023 9:08 PM
 To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
 Subject: Re: [AI] Are publishers in India obligated to provide soft
 copies
 to the blind on request?

 Hi all
 Pardon my ignorance but sugamya does not do ya audio recording for all
 the
 books?
 Should we not focus on immediate solution than going through a long
 route?
 I’m late life visually impaired person, so still trying to understand
 the
 weather situation Best

 Prerna Sobti

> On 14-Aug-2023, at 11:55 PM, Ajay Minocha 
> wrote:
>
> Completely agree, its only the mandate which gets the things done.
>
>>> On 14/08/2023, anirudh rao  wrote:
>> yes completely agree on the point that such a law should be mandated.
>> OCR apps are not accurate and accuracy is inevitable when someone is
>> reading a book for academic purposes.
>> I too had the same question in my mind lingering since few days now
>> and was clarified by some of the insites provided here.
>> one more problem is that most publishers are unaware of disability in
>> general and are just rude.
>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 14, 2023 at 8:51 PM drbsmkumar 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi All,
>>> Why should we buy a hardcopy book scan it and do an OCR? Are we not
>>> eligible to buy an accessible E book? There are so many leading
>>> international private publishers who are supplying digital E books
>>> with complete long description for that images.
>>> Hence, I feel 

Re: [AI] Are publishers in India obligated to provide soft copies to the blind on request?

[Mission Accessibility]

Dear avichal,, thanks for raising this extremely important issue. Subject to 
doing a conflict check in terms of our existing obligations, Mission 
Accessibility would be very happy to take up this cause for you in the court of 
the chief commissioner for persons with disabilities. I would be happy to 
appear on your behalf. I am passing this email on to my colleague Mahoor, who 
leads our grievance redressal and strategic intervention work, for her to 
obtain detailed specifications from you on who the publisher is and whether 
there is anything in writing that we can annexed with the complaint. And also 
the logistics and scope of work. Thanks very much.

Rahul

Sent from Outlook for iOS

From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in  on behalf 
of Pinkesh Tailor 
Sent: Friday, August 18, 2023 3:54:51 PM
To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in 
Subject: Re: [AI] Are publishers in India obligated to provide soft copies to 
the blind on request?

I think, you should raise this at CCPD. Until and unless these matters
are silent, there would be no update on this issue by the government.
Secondly since the demand for higher, and doctoral studies are very
poor amongst blind, do not expect these NGO's to offer any help to you
in this regards. This is your own battle, and you have to fight on
your own. Others would just comment, and give you some advise. I wish
that there would be a law under RPWD act which would mandate all at
least Indian publisher to make the books available in multiple
formats. Just as it is available in developed countries.

On 8/18/23, Aravind R  wrote:
> yes. sugamya and bookshare are good reading sources for blind. we can
> link with our mobile apps like voice dream reader or easy reader and
> get books from those libraries any time.
>
> On 17/08/2023, Prerna Sobti  wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>>
>> Gratitude for explaining me all this
>>
>>
>> I was not aware of this at all
>>
>> Best
>> Prerna Sobti
>>
>>> On 17-Aug-2023, at 8:04 AM, prashant...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>> Sugamya Pustakalaya does not record or convert any book on its own.
>>> Sugamya Pustakalaya is an online library where various NGOs are
>>> uploading
>>> the books converted by them.
>>> Audio recording of a book is a time consuming and expensive affair if
>>> decent quality is to be achieved. Not every book can be recorded, no one
>>> has the resources for it.
>>> And then learners do not always want the audio version, eBook is being
>>> increasingly preferred.
>>> In Sugamya Pustakalaya audio books in DAISY format, eBooks in EPUB
>>> format
>>> and some Braille files are also available. All books are accessible and
>>> the collection keeps growing.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in  On
>>> Behalf Of Prerna Sobti
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2023 9:08 PM
>>> To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Are publishers in India obligated to provide soft
>>> copies
>>> to the blind on request?
>>>
>>> Hi all
>>> Pardon my ignorance but sugamya does not do ya audio recording for all
>>> the
>>> books?
>>> Should we not focus on immediate solution than going through a long
>>> route?
>>> I’m late life visually impaired person, so still trying to understand
>>> the
>>> weather situation Best
>>>
>>> Prerna Sobti
>>>
 On 14-Aug-2023, at 11:55 PM, Ajay Minocha 
 wrote:

 Completely agree, its only the mandate which gets the things done.

>> On 14/08/2023, anirudh rao  wrote:
> yes completely agree on the point that such a law should be mandated.
> OCR apps are not accurate and accuracy is inevitable when someone is
> reading a book for academic purposes.
> I too had the same question in my mind lingering since few days now
> and was clarified by some of the insites provided here.
> one more problem is that most publishers are unaware of disability in
> general and are just rude.
>
>> On Mon, Aug 14, 2023 at 8:51 PM drbsmkumar 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi All,
>> Why should we buy a hardcopy book scan it and do an OCR? Are we not
>> eligible to buy an accessible E book? There are so many leading
>> international private publishers who are supplying digital E books
>> with complete long description for that images.
>> Hence, I feel we should work towards making a law which makes it
>> mandatory for all the publishing houses to provide an accessible
>> Digital books for people with vision in pairments.
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>> Prof. B. S. M. Kumar, MSc., MTech., PhD,
>> Cell: +91 9840139849
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On 14-Aug-2023, at 20:42, Aman Preet Singh 
>>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi! I suggest you that, you may access the book with the help of
>> technology for visually impaired. You may purchase It’s hard copy,
>> scan its Pages with your mobile/scanner and create its PDF file,
>> then you may 

Re: [AI] Are publishers in India obligated to provide soft copies to the blind on request?

[Pinkesh Tailor]

I think, you should raise this at CCPD. Until and unless these matters
are silent, there would be no update on this issue by the government.
Secondly since the demand for higher, and doctoral studies are very
poor amongst blind, do not expect these NGO's to offer any help to you
in this regards. This is your own battle, and you have to fight on
your own. Others would just comment, and give you some advise. I wish
that there would be a law under RPWD act which would mandate all at
least Indian publisher to make the books available in multiple
formats. Just as it is available in developed countries.

On 8/18/23, Aravind R  wrote:
> yes. sugamya and bookshare are good reading sources for blind. we can
> link with our mobile apps like voice dream reader or easy reader and
> get books from those libraries any time.
>
> On 17/08/2023, Prerna Sobti  wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>>
>> Gratitude for explaining me all this
>>
>>
>> I was not aware of this at all
>>
>> Best
>> Prerna Sobti
>>
>>> On 17-Aug-2023, at 8:04 AM, prashant...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>> Sugamya Pustakalaya does not record or convert any book on its own.
>>> Sugamya Pustakalaya is an online library where various NGOs are
>>> uploading
>>> the books converted by them.
>>> Audio recording of a book is a time consuming and expensive affair if
>>> decent quality is to be achieved. Not every book can be recorded, no one
>>> has the resources for it.
>>> And then learners do not always want the audio version, eBook is being
>>> increasingly preferred.
>>> In Sugamya Pustakalaya audio books in DAISY format, eBooks in EPUB
>>> format
>>> and some Braille files are also available. All books are accessible and
>>> the collection keeps growing.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in  On
>>> Behalf Of Prerna Sobti
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2023 9:08 PM
>>> To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
>>> Subject: Re: [AI] Are publishers in India obligated to provide soft
>>> copies
>>> to the blind on request?
>>>
>>> Hi all
>>> Pardon my ignorance but sugamya does not do ya audio recording for all
>>> the
>>> books?
>>> Should we not focus on immediate solution than going through a long
>>> route?
>>> I’m late life visually impaired person, so still trying to understand
>>> the
>>> weather situation Best
>>>
>>> Prerna Sobti
>>>
 On 14-Aug-2023, at 11:55 PM, Ajay Minocha 
 wrote:

 Completely agree, its only the mandate which gets the things done.

>> On 14/08/2023, anirudh rao  wrote:
> yes completely agree on the point that such a law should be mandated.
> OCR apps are not accurate and accuracy is inevitable when someone is
> reading a book for academic purposes.
> I too had the same question in my mind lingering since few days now
> and was clarified by some of the insites provided here.
> one more problem is that most publishers are unaware of disability in
> general and are just rude.
>
>> On Mon, Aug 14, 2023 at 8:51 PM drbsmkumar 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi All,
>> Why should we buy a hardcopy book scan it and do an OCR? Are we not
>> eligible to buy an accessible E book? There are so many leading
>> international private publishers who are supplying digital E books
>> with complete long description for that images.
>> Hence, I feel we should work towards making a law which makes it
>> mandatory for all the publishing houses to provide an accessible
>> Digital books for people with vision in pairments.
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>> Prof. B. S. M. Kumar, MSc., MTech., PhD,
>> Cell: +91 9840139849
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On 14-Aug-2023, at 20:42, Aman Preet Singh 
>>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi! I suggest you that, you may access the book with the help of
>> technology for visually impaired. You may purchase It’s hard copy,
>> scan its Pages with your mobile/scanner and create its PDF file,
>> then you may read that file with any OCR app like kibo, envision AI,
>> etc. Thanks.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On 14-Aug-2023, at 6:43 PM, Avichal Bhatnagar
>> 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hello Prashant Sir,
>>
>> Thanks for making things clear.
>>
>> However, the catch in this entire case is that there's no soft copy
>>
>> available anywhere, thus making it impossible for the print disabled
>>
>> to read.
>>
>> So, I wonder if a case against the publisher can be filed in the
>> court
>>
>> of CCPD on the grounds of discrimination against the disabled?
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 8/14/23, prashant...@gmail.com  wrote:
>>
>> Dear Avichal,
>>
>> It is not necessary for the private publisher to provide an
>> accessible copy
>>
>> as of now.
>>
>> The law permits you or any other institution  to convert it to an
>> accessible
>>
>> format without taking 

Re: [AI] Are publishers in India obligated to provide soft copies to the blind on request?

[Aravind R]

yes. sugamya and bookshare are good reading sources for blind. we can
link with our mobile apps like voice dream reader or easy reader and
get books from those libraries any time.

On 17/08/2023, Prerna Sobti  wrote:
> Hi
>
>
> Gratitude for explaining me all this
>
>
> I was not aware of this at all
>
> Best
> Prerna Sobti
>
>> On 17-Aug-2023, at 8:04 AM, prashant...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> Sugamya Pustakalaya does not record or convert any book on its own.
>> Sugamya Pustakalaya is an online library where various NGOs are uploading
>> the books converted by them.
>> Audio recording of a book is a time consuming and expensive affair if
>> decent quality is to be achieved. Not every book can be recorded, no one
>> has the resources for it.
>> And then learners do not always want the audio version, eBook is being
>> increasingly preferred.
>> In Sugamya Pustakalaya audio books in DAISY format, eBooks in EPUB format
>> and some Braille files are also available. All books are accessible and
>> the collection keeps growing.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in  On
>> Behalf Of Prerna Sobti
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2023 9:08 PM
>> To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
>> Subject: Re: [AI] Are publishers in India obligated to provide soft copies
>> to the blind on request?
>>
>> Hi all
>> Pardon my ignorance but sugamya does not do ya audio recording for all the
>> books?
>> Should we not focus on immediate solution than going through a long route?
>> I’m late life visually impaired person, so still trying to understand the
>> weather situation Best
>>
>> Prerna Sobti
>>
>>> On 14-Aug-2023, at 11:55 PM, Ajay Minocha 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Completely agree, its only the mandate which gets the things done.
>>>
> On 14/08/2023, anirudh rao  wrote:
 yes completely agree on the point that such a law should be mandated.
 OCR apps are not accurate and accuracy is inevitable when someone is
 reading a book for academic purposes.
 I too had the same question in my mind lingering since few days now
 and was clarified by some of the insites provided here.
 one more problem is that most publishers are unaware of disability in
 general and are just rude.

> On Mon, Aug 14, 2023 at 8:51 PM drbsmkumar 
> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
> Why should we buy a hardcopy book scan it and do an OCR? Are we not
> eligible to buy an accessible E book? There are so many leading
> international private publishers who are supplying digital E books
> with complete long description for that images.
> Hence, I feel we should work towards making a law which makes it
> mandatory for all the publishing houses to provide an accessible
> Digital books for people with vision in pairments.
> Regards,
>
>
> Prof. B. S. M. Kumar, MSc., MTech., PhD,
> Cell: +91 9840139849
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On 14-Aug-2023, at 20:42, Aman Preet Singh 
>> wrote:
>
> Hi! I suggest you that, you may access the book with the help of
> technology for visually impaired. You may purchase It’s hard copy,
> scan its Pages with your mobile/scanner and create its PDF file,
> then you may read that file with any OCR app like kibo, envision AI,
> etc. Thanks.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 14-Aug-2023, at 6:43 PM, Avichal Bhatnagar
> 
> wrote:
>
>
> Hello Prashant Sir,
>
> Thanks for making things clear.
>
> However, the catch in this entire case is that there's no soft copy
>
> available anywhere, thus making it impossible for the print disabled
>
> to read.
>
> So, I wonder if a case against the publisher can be filed in the
> court
>
> of CCPD on the grounds of discrimination against the disabled?
>
>
>
>> On 8/14/23, prashant...@gmail.com  wrote:
>
> Dear Avichal,
>
> It is not necessary for the private publisher to provide an
> accessible copy
>
> as of now.
>
> The law permits you or any other institution  to convert it to an
> accessible
>
> format without taking permission of the publisher/copy right holder.
>
>
> However, if that book is being provided by any educational
> institution to
>
> you, you can put the onus on the institution to convert it for you.
>
>
> Publishers don’t want to share soft copy fearing piracy although
> there are
>
> other ways to pirate the book if anyone really wants to do so.
>
>
> This is how the copyright law has worked so far.
>
>
> I wonder if the recent changes to the RPD Act rules can be  made
> applicable
>
> on this particularly when only print book has been released.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Prashant
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
>
> From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
>  

Re: [AI] Are publishers in India obligated to provide soft copies to the blind on request?

[Prerna Sobti]

Hi


Gratitude for explaining me all this


I was not aware of this at all

Best
Prerna Sobti 

> On 17-Aug-2023, at 8:04 AM, prashant...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> Sugamya Pustakalaya does not record or convert any book on its own. Sugamya 
> Pustakalaya is an online library where various NGOs are uploading the books 
> converted by them.
> Audio recording of a book is a time consuming and expensive affair if decent 
> quality is to be achieved. Not every book can be recorded, no one has the 
> resources for it.
> And then learners do not always want the audio version, eBook is being 
> increasingly preferred.  
> In Sugamya Pustakalaya audio books in DAISY format, eBooks in EPUB format and 
> some Braille files are also available. All books are accessible and the 
> collection keeps growing. 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in  On 
> Behalf Of Prerna Sobti
> Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2023 9:08 PM
> To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
> Subject: Re: [AI] Are publishers in India obligated to provide soft copies to 
> the blind on request?
> 
> Hi all
> Pardon my ignorance but sugamya does not do ya audio recording for all the 
> books?
> Should we not focus on immediate solution than going through a long route? 
> I’m late life visually impaired person, so still trying to understand the 
> weather situation Best
> 
> Prerna Sobti 
> 
>> On 14-Aug-2023, at 11:55 PM, Ajay Minocha  wrote:
>> 
>> Completely agree, its only the mandate which gets the things done.
>> 
 On 14/08/2023, anirudh rao  wrote:
>>> yes completely agree on the point that such a law should be mandated.
>>> OCR apps are not accurate and accuracy is inevitable when someone is 
>>> reading a book for academic purposes.
>>> I too had the same question in my mind lingering since few days now 
>>> and was clarified by some of the insites provided here.
>>> one more problem is that most publishers are unaware of disability in 
>>> general and are just rude.
>>> 
 On Mon, Aug 14, 2023 at 8:51 PM drbsmkumar  wrote:
 
 Hi All,
 Why should we buy a hardcopy book scan it and do an OCR? Are we not 
 eligible to buy an accessible E book? There are so many leading 
 international private publishers who are supplying digital E books 
 with complete long description for that images.
 Hence, I feel we should work towards making a law which makes it 
 mandatory for all the publishing houses to provide an accessible 
 Digital books for people with vision in pairments.
 Regards,
 
 
 Prof. B. S. M. Kumar, MSc., MTech., PhD,
 Cell: +91 9840139849
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On 14-Aug-2023, at 20:42, Aman Preet Singh  wrote:
 
 Hi! I suggest you that, you may access the book with the help of 
 technology for visually impaired. You may purchase It’s hard copy, 
 scan its Pages with your mobile/scanner and create its PDF file, 
 then you may read that file with any OCR app like kibo, envision AI, 
 etc. Thanks.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On 14-Aug-2023, at 6:43 PM, Avichal Bhatnagar 
 
 wrote:
 
 
 Hello Prashant Sir,
 
 Thanks for making things clear.
 
 However, the catch in this entire case is that there's no soft copy
 
 available anywhere, thus making it impossible for the print disabled
 
 to read.
 
 So, I wonder if a case against the publisher can be filed in the 
 court
 
 of CCPD on the grounds of discrimination against the disabled?
 
 
 
> On 8/14/23, prashant...@gmail.com  wrote:
 
 Dear Avichal,
 
 It is not necessary for the private publisher to provide an 
 accessible copy
 
 as of now.
 
 The law permits you or any other institution  to convert it to an 
 accessible
 
 format without taking permission of the publisher/copy right holder.
 
 
 However, if that book is being provided by any educational 
 institution to
 
 you, you can put the onus on the institution to convert it for you.
 
 
 Publishers don’t want to share soft copy fearing piracy although 
 there are
 
 other ways to pirate the book if anyone really wants to do so.
 
 
 This is how the copyright law has worked so far.
 
 
 I wonder if the recent changes to the RPD Act rules can be  made 
 applicable
 
 on this particularly when only print book has been released.
 
 
 
 Thanks,
 
 Prashant
 
 
 
 -Original Message-
 
 From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in 
  On
 
 Behalf Of Avichal Bhatnagar
 
 Sent: Monday, August 14, 2023 3:10 PM
 
 To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
 
 Subject: [AI] Are publishers in India obligated to provide soft 
 copies to
 
 the blind on request?
 
 
 Hello list members,
 

Re: [AI] Are publishers in India obligated to provide soft copies to the blind on request?

[Avichal Bhatnagar]

I thank all the esteemed members for sharing their valuable thoughts
on this matter.
I humbly request the legal experts on the list to please chip in with
their opinion regarding the feasibility of suing the publisher under
RPD act.

On 8/17/23, prashant...@gmail.com  wrote:
> Sugamya Pustakalaya does not record or convert any book on its own. Sugamya
> Pustakalaya is an online library where various NGOs are uploading the books
> converted by them.
> Audio recording of a book is a time consuming and expensive affair if decent
> quality is to be achieved. Not every book can be recorded, no one has the
> resources for it.
> And then learners do not always want the audio version, eBook is being
> increasingly preferred.
> In Sugamya Pustakalaya audio books in DAISY format, eBooks in EPUB format
> and some Braille files are also available. All books are accessible and the
> collection keeps growing.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in  On
> Behalf Of Prerna Sobti
> Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2023 9:08 PM
> To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
> Subject: Re: [AI] Are publishers in India obligated to provide soft copies
> to the blind on request?
>
> Hi all
> Pardon my ignorance but sugamya does not do ya audio recording for all the
> books?
> Should we not focus on immediate solution than going through a long route?
> I’m late life visually impaired person, so still trying to understand the
> weather situation Best
>
> Prerna Sobti
>
>> On 14-Aug-2023, at 11:55 PM, Ajay Minocha  wrote:
>>
>> Completely agree, its only the mandate which gets the things done.
>>
>>> On 14/08/2023, anirudh rao  wrote:
>>> yes completely agree on the point that such a law should be mandated.
>>> OCR apps are not accurate and accuracy is inevitable when someone is
>>> reading a book for academic purposes.
>>> I too had the same question in my mind lingering since few days now
>>> and was clarified by some of the insites provided here.
>>> one more problem is that most publishers are unaware of disability in
>>> general and are just rude.
>>>
 On Mon, Aug 14, 2023 at 8:51 PM drbsmkumar 
 wrote:

 Hi All,
 Why should we buy a hardcopy book scan it and do an OCR? Are we not
 eligible to buy an accessible E book? There are so many leading
 international private publishers who are supplying digital E books
 with complete long description for that images.
 Hence, I feel we should work towards making a law which makes it
 mandatory for all the publishing houses to provide an accessible
 Digital books for people with vision in pairments.
 Regards,


 Prof. B. S. M. Kumar, MSc., MTech., PhD,
 Cell: +91 9840139849

 Sent from my iPhone

> On 14-Aug-2023, at 20:42, Aman Preet Singh  wrote:

 Hi! I suggest you that, you may access the book with the help of
 technology for visually impaired. You may purchase It’s hard copy,
 scan its Pages with your mobile/scanner and create its PDF file,
 then you may read that file with any OCR app like kibo, envision AI,
 etc. Thanks.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On 14-Aug-2023, at 6:43 PM, Avichal Bhatnagar
 
 wrote:


 Hello Prashant Sir,

 Thanks for making things clear.

 However, the catch in this entire case is that there's no soft copy

 available anywhere, thus making it impossible for the print disabled

 to read.

 So, I wonder if a case against the publisher can be filed in the
 court

 of CCPD on the grounds of discrimination against the disabled?



> On 8/14/23, prashant...@gmail.com  wrote:

 Dear Avichal,

 It is not necessary for the private publisher to provide an
 accessible copy

 as of now.

 The law permits you or any other institution  to convert it to an
 accessible

 format without taking permission of the publisher/copy right holder.


 However, if that book is being provided by any educational
 institution to

 you, you can put the onus on the institution to convert it for you.


 Publishers don’t want to share soft copy fearing piracy although
 there are

 other ways to pirate the book if anyone really wants to do so.


 This is how the copyright law has worked so far.


 I wonder if the recent changes to the RPD Act rules can be  made
 applicable

 on this particularly when only print book has been released.



 Thanks,

 Prashant



 -Original Message-

 From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
  On

 Behalf Of Avichal Bhatnagar

 Sent: Monday, August 14, 2023 3:10 PM

 To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in

 Subject: [AI] Are publishers in India obligated to provide soft
 copies to

 the blind on request?

RE: [AI] Are publishers in India obligated to provide soft copies to the blind on request?

[prashant.rv]

Sugamya Pustakalaya does not record or convert any book on its own. Sugamya 
Pustakalaya is an online library where various NGOs are uploading the books 
converted by them.
Audio recording of a book is a time consuming and expensive affair if decent 
quality is to be achieved. Not every book can be recorded, no one has the 
resources for it.
And then learners do not always want the audio version, eBook is being 
increasingly preferred.  
In Sugamya Pustakalaya audio books in DAISY format, eBooks in EPUB format and 
some Braille files are also available. All books are accessible and the 
collection keeps growing. 

-Original Message-
From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in  On Behalf 
Of Prerna Sobti
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2023 9:08 PM
To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
Subject: Re: [AI] Are publishers in India obligated to provide soft copies to 
the blind on request?

Hi all
Pardon my ignorance but sugamya does not do ya audio recording for all the 
books?
Should we not focus on immediate solution than going through a long route? I’m 
late life visually impaired person, so still trying to understand the weather 
situation Best

Prerna Sobti 

> On 14-Aug-2023, at 11:55 PM, Ajay Minocha  wrote:
> 
> Completely agree, its only the mandate which gets the things done.
> 
>> On 14/08/2023, anirudh rao  wrote:
>> yes completely agree on the point that such a law should be mandated.
>> OCR apps are not accurate and accuracy is inevitable when someone is 
>> reading a book for academic purposes.
>> I too had the same question in my mind lingering since few days now 
>> and was clarified by some of the insites provided here.
>> one more problem is that most publishers are unaware of disability in 
>> general and are just rude.
>> 
>>> On Mon, Aug 14, 2023 at 8:51 PM drbsmkumar  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi All,
>>> Why should we buy a hardcopy book scan it and do an OCR? Are we not 
>>> eligible to buy an accessible E book? There are so many leading 
>>> international private publishers who are supplying digital E books 
>>> with complete long description for that images.
>>> Hence, I feel we should work towards making a law which makes it 
>>> mandatory for all the publishing houses to provide an accessible 
>>> Digital books for people with vision in pairments.
>>> Regards,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Prof. B. S. M. Kumar, MSc., MTech., PhD,
>>> Cell: +91 9840139849
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On 14-Aug-2023, at 20:42, Aman Preet Singh  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi! I suggest you that, you may access the book with the help of 
>>> technology for visually impaired. You may purchase It’s hard copy, 
>>> scan its Pages with your mobile/scanner and create its PDF file, 
>>> then you may read that file with any OCR app like kibo, envision AI, 
>>> etc. Thanks.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On 14-Aug-2023, at 6:43 PM, Avichal Bhatnagar 
>>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hello Prashant Sir,
>>> 
>>> Thanks for making things clear.
>>> 
>>> However, the catch in this entire case is that there's no soft copy
>>> 
>>> available anywhere, thus making it impossible for the print disabled
>>> 
>>> to read.
>>> 
>>> So, I wonder if a case against the publisher can be filed in the 
>>> court
>>> 
>>> of CCPD on the grounds of discrimination against the disabled?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On 8/14/23, prashant...@gmail.com  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Dear Avichal,
>>> 
>>> It is not necessary for the private publisher to provide an 
>>> accessible copy
>>> 
>>> as of now.
>>> 
>>> The law permits you or any other institution  to convert it to an 
>>> accessible
>>> 
>>> format without taking permission of the publisher/copy right holder.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> However, if that book is being provided by any educational 
>>> institution to
>>> 
>>> you, you can put the onus on the institution to convert it for you.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Publishers don’t want to share soft copy fearing piracy although 
>>> there are
>>> 
>>> other ways to pirate the book if anyone really wants to do so.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> This is how the copyright law has worked so far.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I wonder if the recent changes to the RPD Act rules can be  made 
>>> applicable
>>> 
>>> on this particularly when only print book has been released.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> Prashant
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> 
>>> From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in 
>>>  On
>>> 
>>> Behalf Of Avichal Bhatnagar
>>> 
>>> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2023 3:10 PM
>>> 
>>> To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
>>> 
>>> Subject: [AI] Are publishers in India obligated to provide soft 
>>> copies to
>>> 
>>> the blind on request?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hello list members,
>>> 
>>> As the subject line indicates, I want to know that if a visually 
>>> impaired
>>> 
>>> person requests a publisher for the soft copy of a book, is the 
>>> publisher
>>> 
>>> obligated by law to provide the same? If so, then can he be 
>>> penalised for
>>> 
>>> not fulfilling the request?
>>> 
>>> Today, I called a publisher in Mumbai 

Re: [AI] Are publishers in India obligated to provide soft copies to the blind on request?

[Prerna Sobti]

Hi all
Pardon my ignorance but sugamya does not do ya audio recording for all the 
books?
Should we not focus on immediate solution than going through a long route? I’m 
late life visually impaired person, so still trying to understand the weather 
situation
Best

Prerna Sobti 

> On 14-Aug-2023, at 11:55 PM, Ajay Minocha  wrote:
> 
> Completely agree, its only the mandate which gets the things done.
> 
>> On 14/08/2023, anirudh rao  wrote:
>> yes completely agree on the point that such a law should be mandated.
>> OCR apps are not accurate and accuracy is inevitable when someone is
>> reading a book for academic purposes.
>> I too had the same question in my mind lingering since few days now and was
>> clarified by some of the insites provided here.
>> one more problem is that most publishers are unaware of disability in
>> general and are just rude.
>> 
>>> On Mon, Aug 14, 2023 at 8:51 PM drbsmkumar  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi All,
>>> Why should we buy a hardcopy book scan it and do an OCR? Are we not
>>> eligible to buy an accessible E book? There are so many leading
>>> international private publishers who are supplying digital E books with
>>> complete long description for that images.
>>> Hence, I feel we should work towards making a law which makes it
>>> mandatory
>>> for all the publishing houses to provide an accessible Digital books for
>>> people with vision in pairments.
>>> Regards,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Prof. B. S. M. Kumar, MSc., MTech., PhD,
>>> Cell: +91 9840139849
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On 14-Aug-2023, at 20:42, Aman Preet Singh  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi! I suggest you that, you may access the book with the help of
>>> technology for visually impaired. You may purchase It’s hard copy, scan
>>> its
>>> Pages with your mobile/scanner and create its PDF file, then you may read
>>> that file with any OCR app like kibo, envision AI, etc. Thanks.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On 14-Aug-2023, at 6:43 PM, Avichal Bhatnagar 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hello Prashant Sir,
>>> 
>>> Thanks for making things clear.
>>> 
>>> However, the catch in this entire case is that there's no soft copy
>>> 
>>> available anywhere, thus making it impossible for the print disabled
>>> 
>>> to read.
>>> 
>>> So, I wonder if a case against the publisher can be filed in the court
>>> 
>>> of CCPD on the grounds of discrimination against the disabled?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On 8/14/23, prashant...@gmail.com  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Dear Avichal,
>>> 
>>> It is not necessary for the private publisher to provide an accessible
>>> copy
>>> 
>>> as of now.
>>> 
>>> The law permits you or any other institution  to convert it to an
>>> accessible
>>> 
>>> format without taking permission of the publisher/copy right holder.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> However, if that book is being provided by any educational institution to
>>> 
>>> you, you can put the onus on the institution to convert it for you.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Publishers don’t want to share soft copy fearing piracy although there
>>> are
>>> 
>>> other ways to pirate the book if anyone really wants to do so.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> This is how the copyright law has worked so far.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I wonder if the recent changes to the RPD Act rules can be  made
>>> applicable
>>> 
>>> on this particularly when only print book has been released.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> Prashant
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> 
>>> From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in  On
>>> 
>>> Behalf Of Avichal Bhatnagar
>>> 
>>> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2023 3:10 PM
>>> 
>>> To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
>>> 
>>> Subject: [AI] Are publishers in India obligated to provide soft copies to
>>> 
>>> the blind on request?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hello list members,
>>> 
>>> As the subject line indicates, I want to know that if a visually impaired
>>> 
>>> person requests a publisher for the soft copy of a book, is the publisher
>>> 
>>> obligated by law to provide the same? If so, then can he be penalised for
>>> 
>>> not fulfilling the request?
>>> 
>>> Today, I called a publisher in Mumbai and requested for the soft copy of
>>> a
>>> 
>>> book which is quite essential for my doctoral research; I was willing to
>>> pay
>>> 
>>> the price of the hard copy for the soft copy, but the publisher's
>>> response
>>> 
>>> was very callous and insensitive.
>>> 
>>> The book is not available as an ebook in any other format as well, such
>>> as
>>> 
>>> kindle.
>>> 
>>> He simply said that he would not provide the soft copy, and when I told
>>> him
>>> 
>>> that the book was not available in ebook anywhere, so he said that I
>>> should
>>> 
>>> read it when it becomes available.
>>> 
>>> I also told him that the book is a big one, so it'll take a lot of time
>>> in
>>> 
>>> getting it scanned and proofread, but he did not budge.
>>> 
>>> So, I request the legal experts on the list to please advise me as to
>>> what
>>> 
>>> will be the best course of action in this regard?
>>> 
>>> I am planning to sue the publisher in the 

Re: [AI] Are publishers in India obligated to provide soft copies to the blind on request?

[Yamuna Jivana dasa (Yogan Khandoo)]

If such a law can be mandated would be excellent, but I suspect for that to 
happen will require the right legal professionals in very high places, very 
committed to the case. Getting the right thing done usually requires hard 
struggle. Such is the world we live in generally. Think of anything: banning 
GMO food companies that harm our health, stopping big pharma from manufacturing 
symptomatic relief dependency drugs over treating root causes of disease, 
legislating that building construction meets minimum standards or else face 
hefty fines, ensuring law enforcement is in line with legislation, and the list 
goes on. Usually we must fight to pressure the Government to protect us, what 
to speak of rights for the blind. I often wonder why this is? Is it that our 
leaders don’t care for the people but care only for money and profits at our 
expense?

Sorry, there I go analysing our world again. It is enough to know that The root 
cause is a lack of God consciousness that leaves us unprotected and allows 
materialistic leadership to rule.

Yamuna Jivana dasa

From: anirudh rao 
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2023 11:01 PM
To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in 
Subject: Re: [AI] Are publishers in India obligated to provide soft copies to 
the blind on request?

yes completely agree on the point that such a law should be mandated.

OCR apps are not accurate and accuracy is inevitable when someone is reading a 
book for academic purposes.
I too had the same question in my mind lingering since few days now and was 
clarified by some of the insites provided here.
one more problem is that most publishers are unaware of disability in general 
and are just rude.

On Mon, Aug 14, 2023 at 8:51 PM drbsmkumar  wrote:

  Hi All, 
  Why should we buy a hardcopy book scan it and do an OCR? Are we not eligible 
to buy an accessible E book? There are so many leading international private 
publishers who are supplying digital E books with complete long description for 
that images.
  Hence, I feel we should work towards making a law which makes it mandatory 
for all the publishing houses to provide an accessible Digital books for people 
with vision in pairments.
  Regards,


  Prof. B. S. M. Kumar, MSc., MTech., PhD,  
  Cell: +91 9840139849


  Sent from my iPhone


On 14-Aug-2023, at 20:42, Aman Preet Singh  wrote:


Hi! I suggest you that, you may access the book with the help of 
technology for visually impaired. You may purchase It’s hard copy, scan its 
Pages with your mobile/scanner and create its PDF file, then you may read that 
file with any OCR app like kibo, envision AI, etc. Thanks.

Sent from my iPhone


  On 14-Aug-2023, at 6:43 PM, Avichal Bhatnagar  
wrote:



  Hello Prashant Sir,

  Thanks for making things clear.

  However, the catch in this entire case is that there's no soft copy

  available anywhere, thus making it impossible for the print disabled

  to read.

  So, I wonder if a case against the publisher can be filed in the court

  of CCPD on the grounds of discrimination against the disabled?





On 8/14/23, prashant...@gmail.com  wrote:

Dear Avichal,

It is not necessary for the private publisher to provide an accessible 
copy

as of now.

The law permits you or any other institution  to convert it to an 
accessible

format without taking permission of the publisher/copy right holder.



However, if that book is being provided by any educational institution 
to

you, you can put the onus on the institution to convert it for you.



Publishers don’t want to share soft copy fearing piracy although there 
are

other ways to pirate the book if anyone really wants to do so.



This is how the copyright law has worked so far.



I wonder if the recent changes to the RPD Act rules can be  made 
applicable

on this particularly when only print book has been released.





Thanks,

Prashant





-Original Message-

From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in  On

Behalf Of Avichal Bhatnagar

Sent: Monday, August 14, 2023 3:10 PM

To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in

Subject: [AI] Are publishers in India obligated to provide soft copies 
to

the blind on request?



Hello list members,

As the subject line indicates, I want to know that if a visually 
impaired

person requests a publisher for the soft copy of a book, is the 
publisher

obligated by law to provide the same? If so, then can he be penalised 
for

not fulfilling the request?

Today, I called a publisher in Mumbai and requested for the soft copy 
of a

book which is quite essential for my doctoral research; I was willing 
to pay

the price of the hard copy for the soft copy, but the publisher's 
response

was very callous and insensitive.

The book 

Re: [AI] Are publishers in India obligated to provide soft copies to the blind on request?

[Yamuna Jivana dasa (Yogan Khandoo)]

Does India have an organization that scans to OCR books for the blind? You 
might want to consider such an option.
Even private individuals can do it at a small fee with software such as Fine 
Reader, Openbook and others (these days there may be other more accurate OCR 
software than I know about from my university days decades ago! 


-Original Message- 
From: Avichal Bhatnagar

Sent: Monday, August 14, 2023 6:43 PM
To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
Subject: Re: [AI] Are publishers in India obligated to provide soft copies 
to the blind on request?


Hello Prashant Sir,
Thanks for making things clear.
However, the catch in this entire case is that there's no soft copy
available anywhere, thus making it impossible for the print disabled
to read.
So, I wonder if a case against the publisher can be filed in the court
of CCPD on the grounds of discrimination against the disabled?


On 8/14/23, prashant...@gmail.com  wrote:

Dear Avichal,
It is not necessary for the private publisher to provide an accessible 
copy

as of now.
The law permits you or any other institution  to convert it to an 
accessible

format without taking permission of the publisher/copy right holder.

However, if that book is being provided by any educational institution to
you, you can put the onus on the institution to convert it for you.

Publishers don’t want to share soft copy fearing piracy although there are
other ways to pirate the book if anyone really wants to do so.

This is how the copyright law has worked so far.

I wonder if the recent changes to the RPD Act rules can be  made 
applicable

on this particularly when only print book has been released.


Thanks,
Prashant


-Original Message-
From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in  On
Behalf Of Avichal Bhatnagar
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2023 3:10 PM
To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
Subject: [AI] Are publishers in India obligated to provide soft copies to
the blind on request?

Hello list members,
As the subject line indicates, I want to know that if a visually impaired
person requests a publisher for the soft copy of a book, is the publisher
obligated by law to provide the same? If so, then can he be penalised for
not fulfilling the request?
Today, I called a publisher in Mumbai and requested for the soft copy of a
book which is quite essential for my doctoral research; I was willing to 
pay

the price of the hard copy for the soft copy, but the publisher's response
was very callous and insensitive.
The book is not available as an ebook in any other format as well, such as
kindle.
He simply said that he would not provide the soft copy, and when I told 
him
that the book was not available in ebook anywhere, so he said that I 
should

read it when it becomes available.
I also told him that the book is a big one, so it'll take a lot of time in
getting it scanned and proofread, but he did not budge.
So, I request the legal experts on the list to please advise me as to what
will be the best course of action in this regard?
I am planning to sue the publisher in the court of the Chief commissioner
for persons with disability, please let me know if it is a good step?
Please also explain about any other laws in this regard.
Thanks,
Avichal
--
Avichal Bhatnagar
Assistant professor at
Department of English, Sri Guru Nanak Dev Khalsa College University of
Delhi

Doctoral research scholar at
Department of humanities
Delhi Technological University (formerly Delhi college of engineering)

--
Disclaimer:
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2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails
sent through this mailing list..


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--
Disclaimer:
1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of 
the

person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;

2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails
sent through this mailing list..


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To view this discussion on the web visit

Re: [AI] Are publishers in India obligated to provide soft copies to the blind on request?

[Ajay Minocha]

Completely agree, its only the mandate which gets the things done.

On 14/08/2023, anirudh rao  wrote:
> yes completely agree on the point that such a law should be mandated.
> OCR apps are not accurate and accuracy is inevitable when someone is
> reading a book for academic purposes.
> I too had the same question in my mind lingering since few days now and was
> clarified by some of the insites provided here.
> one more problem is that most publishers are unaware of disability in
> general and are just rude.
>
> On Mon, Aug 14, 2023 at 8:51 PM drbsmkumar  wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>> Why should we buy a hardcopy book scan it and do an OCR? Are we not
>> eligible to buy an accessible E book? There are so many leading
>> international private publishers who are supplying digital E books with
>> complete long description for that images.
>> Hence, I feel we should work towards making a law which makes it
>> mandatory
>> for all the publishing houses to provide an accessible Digital books for
>> people with vision in pairments.
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>> Prof. B. S. M. Kumar, MSc., MTech., PhD,
>> Cell: +91 9840139849
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On 14-Aug-2023, at 20:42, Aman Preet Singh  wrote:
>>
>> Hi! I suggest you that, you may access the book with the help of
>> technology for visually impaired. You may purchase It’s hard copy, scan
>> its
>> Pages with your mobile/scanner and create its PDF file, then you may read
>> that file with any OCR app like kibo, envision AI, etc. Thanks.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On 14-Aug-2023, at 6:43 PM, Avichal Bhatnagar 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hello Prashant Sir,
>>
>> Thanks for making things clear.
>>
>> However, the catch in this entire case is that there's no soft copy
>>
>> available anywhere, thus making it impossible for the print disabled
>>
>> to read.
>>
>> So, I wonder if a case against the publisher can be filed in the court
>>
>> of CCPD on the grounds of discrimination against the disabled?
>>
>>
>>
>> On 8/14/23, prashant...@gmail.com  wrote:
>>
>> Dear Avichal,
>>
>> It is not necessary for the private publisher to provide an accessible
>> copy
>>
>> as of now.
>>
>> The law permits you or any other institution  to convert it to an
>> accessible
>>
>> format without taking permission of the publisher/copy right holder.
>>
>>
>> However, if that book is being provided by any educational institution to
>>
>> you, you can put the onus on the institution to convert it for you.
>>
>>
>> Publishers don’t want to share soft copy fearing piracy although there
>> are
>>
>> other ways to pirate the book if anyone really wants to do so.
>>
>>
>> This is how the copyright law has worked so far.
>>
>>
>> I wonder if the recent changes to the RPD Act rules can be  made
>> applicable
>>
>> on this particularly when only print book has been released.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Prashant
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>>
>> From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in  On
>>
>> Behalf Of Avichal Bhatnagar
>>
>> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2023 3:10 PM
>>
>> To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
>>
>> Subject: [AI] Are publishers in India obligated to provide soft copies to
>>
>> the blind on request?
>>
>>
>> Hello list members,
>>
>> As the subject line indicates, I want to know that if a visually impaired
>>
>> person requests a publisher for the soft copy of a book, is the publisher
>>
>> obligated by law to provide the same? If so, then can he be penalised for
>>
>> not fulfilling the request?
>>
>> Today, I called a publisher in Mumbai and requested for the soft copy of
>> a
>>
>> book which is quite essential for my doctoral research; I was willing to
>> pay
>>
>> the price of the hard copy for the soft copy, but the publisher's
>> response
>>
>> was very callous and insensitive.
>>
>> The book is not available as an ebook in any other format as well, such
>> as
>>
>> kindle.
>>
>> He simply said that he would not provide the soft copy, and when I told
>> him
>>
>> that the book was not available in ebook anywhere, so he said that I
>> should
>>
>> read it when it becomes available.
>>
>> I also told him that the book is a big one, so it'll take a lot of time
>> in
>>
>> getting it scanned and proofread, but he did not budge.
>>
>> So, I request the legal experts on the list to please advise me as to
>> what
>>
>> will be the best course of action in this regard?
>>
>> I am planning to sue the publisher in the court of the Chief commissioner
>>
>> for persons with disability, please let me know if it is a good step?
>>
>> Please also explain about any other laws in this regard.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Avichal
>>
>> --
>>
>> Avichal Bhatnagar
>>
>> Assistant professor at
>>
>> Department of English, Sri Guru Nanak Dev Khalsa College University of
>>
>> Delhi
>>
>>
>> Doctoral research scholar at
>>
>> Department of humanities
>>
>> Delhi Technological University (formerly Delhi college of engineering)
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Disclaimer:
>>
>> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or 

Re: [AI] Are publishers in India obligated to provide soft copies to the blind on request?

[anirudh rao]

yes completely agree on the point that such a law should be mandated.
OCR apps are not accurate and accuracy is inevitable when someone is
reading a book for academic purposes.
I too had the same question in my mind lingering since few days now and was
clarified by some of the insites provided here.
one more problem is that most publishers are unaware of disability in
general and are just rude.

On Mon, Aug 14, 2023 at 8:51 PM drbsmkumar  wrote:

> Hi All,
> Why should we buy a hardcopy book scan it and do an OCR? Are we not
> eligible to buy an accessible E book? There are so many leading
> international private publishers who are supplying digital E books with
> complete long description for that images.
> Hence, I feel we should work towards making a law which makes it mandatory
> for all the publishing houses to provide an accessible Digital books for
> people with vision in pairments.
> Regards,
>
>
> Prof. B. S. M. Kumar, MSc., MTech., PhD,
> Cell: +91 9840139849
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 14-Aug-2023, at 20:42, Aman Preet Singh  wrote:
>
> Hi! I suggest you that, you may access the book with the help of
> technology for visually impaired. You may purchase It’s hard copy, scan its
> Pages with your mobile/scanner and create its PDF file, then you may read
> that file with any OCR app like kibo, envision AI, etc. Thanks.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 14-Aug-2023, at 6:43 PM, Avichal Bhatnagar 
> wrote:
>
>
> Hello Prashant Sir,
>
> Thanks for making things clear.
>
> However, the catch in this entire case is that there's no soft copy
>
> available anywhere, thus making it impossible for the print disabled
>
> to read.
>
> So, I wonder if a case against the publisher can be filed in the court
>
> of CCPD on the grounds of discrimination against the disabled?
>
>
>
> On 8/14/23, prashant...@gmail.com  wrote:
>
> Dear Avichal,
>
> It is not necessary for the private publisher to provide an accessible copy
>
> as of now.
>
> The law permits you or any other institution  to convert it to an
> accessible
>
> format without taking permission of the publisher/copy right holder.
>
>
> However, if that book is being provided by any educational institution to
>
> you, you can put the onus on the institution to convert it for you.
>
>
> Publishers don’t want to share soft copy fearing piracy although there are
>
> other ways to pirate the book if anyone really wants to do so.
>
>
> This is how the copyright law has worked so far.
>
>
> I wonder if the recent changes to the RPD Act rules can be  made applicable
>
> on this particularly when only print book has been released.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Prashant
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
>
> From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in  On
>
> Behalf Of Avichal Bhatnagar
>
> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2023 3:10 PM
>
> To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
>
> Subject: [AI] Are publishers in India obligated to provide soft copies to
>
> the blind on request?
>
>
> Hello list members,
>
> As the subject line indicates, I want to know that if a visually impaired
>
> person requests a publisher for the soft copy of a book, is the publisher
>
> obligated by law to provide the same? If so, then can he be penalised for
>
> not fulfilling the request?
>
> Today, I called a publisher in Mumbai and requested for the soft copy of a
>
> book which is quite essential for my doctoral research; I was willing to
> pay
>
> the price of the hard copy for the soft copy, but the publisher's response
>
> was very callous and insensitive.
>
> The book is not available as an ebook in any other format as well, such as
>
> kindle.
>
> He simply said that he would not provide the soft copy, and when I told him
>
> that the book was not available in ebook anywhere, so he said that I should
>
> read it when it becomes available.
>
> I also told him that the book is a big one, so it'll take a lot of time in
>
> getting it scanned and proofread, but he did not budge.
>
> So, I request the legal experts on the list to please advise me as to what
>
> will be the best course of action in this regard?
>
> I am planning to sue the publisher in the court of the Chief commissioner
>
> for persons with disability, please let me know if it is a good step?
>
> Please also explain about any other laws in this regard.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Avichal
>
> --
>
> Avichal Bhatnagar
>
> Assistant professor at
>
> Department of English, Sri Guru Nanak Dev Khalsa College University of
>
> Delhi
>
>
> Doctoral research scholar at
>
> Department of humanities
>
> Delhi Technological University (formerly Delhi college of engineering)
>
>
> --
>
> Disclaimer:
>
> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of
> the
>
> person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;
>
>
> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails
>
> sent through this mailing list..
>
>
>
> Search for old postings at:
>
> 

Re: [AI] Are publishers in India obligated to provide soft copies to the blind on request?

[drbsmkumar]

Hi All,
Why should we buy a hardcopy book scan it and do an OCR? Are we not eligible to 
buy an accessible E book? There are so many leading international private 
publishers who are supplying digital E books with complete long description for 
that images.
Hence, I feel we should work towards making a law which makes it mandatory for 
all the publishing houses to provide an accessible Digital books for people 
with vision in pairments.
Regards,


Prof. B. S. M. Kumar, MSc., MTech., PhD, 
Cell: +91 9840139849

Sent from my iPhone

> On 14-Aug-2023, at 20:42, Aman Preet Singh  wrote:
> 
> Hi! I suggest you that, you may access the book with the help of technology 
> for visually impaired. You may purchase It’s hard copy, scan its Pages with 
> your mobile/scanner and create its PDF file, then you may read that file with 
> any OCR app like kibo, envision AI, etc. Thanks.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 14-Aug-2023, at 6:43 PM, Avichal Bhatnagar  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello Prashant Sir,
>> Thanks for making things clear.
>> However, the catch in this entire case is that there's no soft copy
>> available anywhere, thus making it impossible for the print disabled
>> to read.
>> So, I wonder if a case against the publisher can be filed in the court
>> of CCPD on the grounds of discrimination against the disabled?
>> 
>> 
 On 8/14/23, prashant...@gmail.com  wrote:
>>> Dear Avichal,
>>> It is not necessary for the private publisher to provide an accessible copy
>>> as of now.
>>> The law permits you or any other institution  to convert it to an accessible
>>> format without taking permission of the publisher/copy right holder.
>>> 
>>> However, if that book is being provided by any educational institution to
>>> you, you can put the onus on the institution to convert it for you.
>>> 
>>> Publishers don’t want to share soft copy fearing piracy although there are
>>> other ways to pirate the book if anyone really wants to do so.
>>> 
>>> This is how the copyright law has worked so far.
>>> 
>>> I wonder if the recent changes to the RPD Act rules can be  made applicable
>>> on this particularly when only print book has been released.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Prashant
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in  On
>>> Behalf Of Avichal Bhatnagar
>>> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2023 3:10 PM
>>> To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
>>> Subject: [AI] Are publishers in India obligated to provide soft copies to
>>> the blind on request?
>>> 
>>> Hello list members,
>>> As the subject line indicates, I want to know that if a visually impaired
>>> person requests a publisher for the soft copy of a book, is the publisher
>>> obligated by law to provide the same? If so, then can he be penalised for
>>> not fulfilling the request?
>>> Today, I called a publisher in Mumbai and requested for the soft copy of a
>>> book which is quite essential for my doctoral research; I was willing to pay
>>> the price of the hard copy for the soft copy, but the publisher's response
>>> was very callous and insensitive.
>>> The book is not available as an ebook in any other format as well, such as
>>> kindle.
>>> He simply said that he would not provide the soft copy, and when I told him
>>> that the book was not available in ebook anywhere, so he said that I should
>>> read it when it becomes available.
>>> I also told him that the book is a big one, so it'll take a lot of time in
>>> getting it scanned and proofread, but he did not budge.
>>> So, I request the legal experts on the list to please advise me as to what
>>> will be the best course of action in this regard?
>>> I am planning to sue the publisher in the court of the Chief commissioner
>>> for persons with disability, please let me know if it is a good step?
>>> Please also explain about any other laws in this regard.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Avichal
>>> --
>>> Avichal Bhatnagar
>>> Assistant professor at
>>> Department of English, Sri Guru Nanak Dev Khalsa College University of
>>> Delhi
>>> 
>>> Doctoral research scholar at
>>> Department of humanities
>>> Delhi Technological University (formerly Delhi college of engineering)
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Disclaimer:
>>> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the
>>> person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;
>>> 
>>> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails
>>> sent through this mailing list..
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Search for old postings at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/
>>> ---
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>>> "AccessIndia" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>>> email to accessindia+unsubscr...@accessindia.org.in.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> 

Re: [AI] Are publishers in India obligated to provide soft copies to the blind on request?

[Aman Preet Singh]

Hi! I suggest you that, you may access the book with the help of technology for 
visually impaired. You may purchase It’s hard copy, scan its Pages with your 
mobile/scanner and create its PDF file, then you may read that file with any 
OCR app like kibo, envision AI, etc. Thanks.

Sent from my iPhone

> On 14-Aug-2023, at 6:43 PM, Avichal Bhatnagar  wrote:
> 
> Hello Prashant Sir,
> Thanks for making things clear.
> However, the catch in this entire case is that there's no soft copy
> available anywhere, thus making it impossible for the print disabled
> to read.
> So, I wonder if a case against the publisher can be filed in the court
> of CCPD on the grounds of discrimination against the disabled?
> 
> 
>> On 8/14/23, prashant...@gmail.com  wrote:
>> Dear Avichal,
>> It is not necessary for the private publisher to provide an accessible copy
>> as of now.
>> The law permits you or any other institution  to convert it to an accessible
>> format without taking permission of the publisher/copy right holder.
>> 
>> However, if that book is being provided by any educational institution to
>> you, you can put the onus on the institution to convert it for you.
>> 
>> Publishers don’t want to share soft copy fearing piracy although there are
>> other ways to pirate the book if anyone really wants to do so.
>> 
>> This is how the copyright law has worked so far.
>> 
>> I wonder if the recent changes to the RPD Act rules can be  made applicable
>> on this particularly when only print book has been released.
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Prashant
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in  On
>> Behalf Of Avichal Bhatnagar
>> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2023 3:10 PM
>> To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
>> Subject: [AI] Are publishers in India obligated to provide soft copies to
>> the blind on request?
>> 
>> Hello list members,
>> As the subject line indicates, I want to know that if a visually impaired
>> person requests a publisher for the soft copy of a book, is the publisher
>> obligated by law to provide the same? If so, then can he be penalised for
>> not fulfilling the request?
>> Today, I called a publisher in Mumbai and requested for the soft copy of a
>> book which is quite essential for my doctoral research; I was willing to pay
>> the price of the hard copy for the soft copy, but the publisher's response
>> was very callous and insensitive.
>> The book is not available as an ebook in any other format as well, such as
>> kindle.
>> He simply said that he would not provide the soft copy, and when I told him
>> that the book was not available in ebook anywhere, so he said that I should
>> read it when it becomes available.
>> I also told him that the book is a big one, so it'll take a lot of time in
>> getting it scanned and proofread, but he did not budge.
>> So, I request the legal experts on the list to please advise me as to what
>> will be the best course of action in this regard?
>> I am planning to sue the publisher in the court of the Chief commissioner
>> for persons with disability, please let me know if it is a good step?
>> Please also explain about any other laws in this regard.
>> Thanks,
>> Avichal
>> --
>> Avichal Bhatnagar
>> Assistant professor at
>> Department of English, Sri Guru Nanak Dev Khalsa College University of
>> Delhi
>> 
>> Doctoral research scholar at
>> Department of humanities
>> Delhi Technological University (formerly Delhi college of engineering)
>> 
>> --
>> Disclaimer:
>> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the
>> person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;
>> 
>> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails
>> sent through this mailing list..
>> 
>> 
>> Search for old postings at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "AccessIndia" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to accessindia+unsubscr...@accessindia.org.in.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/a/accessindia.org.in/d/msgid/accessindia/CADsKw8oAbo4-w%2BsT_NitY0uY53cQ2ziskP1H2fSLop4mRj6VnA%40mail.gmail.com.
>> 
>> --
>> Disclaimer:
>> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the
>> person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;
>> 
>> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails
>> sent through this mailing list..
>> 
>> 
>> Search for old postings at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/
>> ---
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "AccessIndia" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to accessindia+unsubscr...@accessindia.org.in.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> 

Re: [AI] Are publishers in India obligated to provide soft copies to the blind on request?

[Avichal Bhatnagar]

Hello Prashant Sir,
Thanks for making things clear.
However, the catch in this entire case is that there's no soft copy
available anywhere, thus making it impossible for the print disabled
to read.
So, I wonder if a case against the publisher can be filed in the court
of CCPD on the grounds of discrimination against the disabled?


On 8/14/23, prashant...@gmail.com  wrote:
> Dear Avichal,
> It is not necessary for the private publisher to provide an accessible copy
> as of now.
> The law permits you or any other institution  to convert it to an accessible
> format without taking permission of the publisher/copy right holder.
>
> However, if that book is being provided by any educational institution to
> you, you can put the onus on the institution to convert it for you.
>
> Publishers don’t want to share soft copy fearing piracy although there are
> other ways to pirate the book if anyone really wants to do so.
>
> This is how the copyright law has worked so far.
>
> I wonder if the recent changes to the RPD Act rules can be  made applicable
> on this particularly when only print book has been released.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Prashant
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in  On
> Behalf Of Avichal Bhatnagar
> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2023 3:10 PM
> To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
> Subject: [AI] Are publishers in India obligated to provide soft copies to
> the blind on request?
>
> Hello list members,
> As the subject line indicates, I want to know that if a visually impaired
> person requests a publisher for the soft copy of a book, is the publisher
> obligated by law to provide the same? If so, then can he be penalised for
> not fulfilling the request?
> Today, I called a publisher in Mumbai and requested for the soft copy of a
> book which is quite essential for my doctoral research; I was willing to pay
> the price of the hard copy for the soft copy, but the publisher's response
> was very callous and insensitive.
> The book is not available as an ebook in any other format as well, such as
> kindle.
> He simply said that he would not provide the soft copy, and when I told him
> that the book was not available in ebook anywhere, so he said that I should
> read it when it becomes available.
> I also told him that the book is a big one, so it'll take a lot of time in
> getting it scanned and proofread, but he did not budge.
> So, I request the legal experts on the list to please advise me as to what
> will be the best course of action in this regard?
> I am planning to sue the publisher in the court of the Chief commissioner
> for persons with disability, please let me know if it is a good step?
> Please also explain about any other laws in this regard.
> Thanks,
> Avichal
> --
> Avichal Bhatnagar
> Assistant professor at
> Department of English, Sri Guru Nanak Dev Khalsa College University of
> Delhi
>
> Doctoral research scholar at
> Department of humanities
> Delhi Technological University (formerly Delhi college of engineering)
>
> --
> Disclaimer:
> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the
> person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;
>
> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails
> sent through this mailing list..
>
>
> Search for old postings at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "AccessIndia" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to accessindia+unsubscr...@accessindia.org.in.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/a/accessindia.org.in/d/msgid/accessindia/CADsKw8oAbo4-w%2BsT_NitY0uY53cQ2ziskP1H2fSLop4mRj6VnA%40mail.gmail.com.
>
> --
> Disclaimer:
> 1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the
> person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;
>
> 2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails
> sent through this mailing list..
>
>
> Search for old postings at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "AccessIndia" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to accessindia+unsubscr...@accessindia.org.in.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/a/accessindia.org.in/d/msgid/accessindia/148a01d9ce9f%245328b940%24f97a2bc0%24%40gmail.com.
>


-- 
Avichal Bhatnagar
Assistant professor at
Department of English, Sri Guru Nanak Dev Khalsa College
University of Delhi

Doctoral research scholar at
Department of humanities
Delhi Technological University (formerly Delhi college of engineering)

-- 
Disclaimer:
1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the 
person sending the mail and AI in no way 

RE: [AI] Are publishers in India obligated to provide soft copies to the blind on request?

[prashant.rv]

Dear Avichal,
It is not necessary for the private publisher to provide an accessible copy as 
of now.
The law permits you or any other institution  to convert it to an accessible 
format without taking permission of the publisher/copy right holder.

However, if that book is being provided by any educational institution to you, 
you can put the onus on the institution to convert it for you.

Publishers don’t want to share soft copy fearing piracy although there are 
other ways to pirate the book if anyone really wants to do so.
 
This is how the copyright law has worked so far. 

I wonder if the recent changes to the RPD Act rules can be  made applicable on 
this particularly when only print book has been released.


Thanks,
Prashant


-Original Message-
From: accessindia@accessindia.org.in  On Behalf 
Of Avichal Bhatnagar
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2023 3:10 PM
To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
Subject: [AI] Are publishers in India obligated to provide soft copies to the 
blind on request?

Hello list members,
As the subject line indicates, I want to know that if a visually impaired 
person requests a publisher for the soft copy of a book, is the publisher 
obligated by law to provide the same? If so, then can he be penalised for not 
fulfilling the request?
Today, I called a publisher in Mumbai and requested for the soft copy of a book 
which is quite essential for my doctoral research; I was willing to pay the 
price of the hard copy for the soft copy, but the publisher's response was very 
callous and insensitive.
The book is not available as an ebook in any other format as well, such as 
kindle.
He simply said that he would not provide the soft copy, and when I told him 
that the book was not available in ebook anywhere, so he said that I should 
read it when it becomes available.
I also told him that the book is a big one, so it'll take a lot of time in 
getting it scanned and proofread, but he did not budge.
So, I request the legal experts on the list to please advise me as to what will 
be the best course of action in this regard?
I am planning to sue the publisher in the court of the Chief commissioner for 
persons with disability, please let me know if it is a good step?
Please also explain about any other laws in this regard.
Thanks,
Avichal
--
Avichal Bhatnagar
Assistant professor at
Department of English, Sri Guru Nanak Dev Khalsa College University of Delhi

Doctoral research scholar at
Department of humanities
Delhi Technological University (formerly Delhi college of engineering)

--
Disclaimer:
1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the 
person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;

2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent 
through this mailing list..


Search for old postings at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"AccessIndia" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to accessindia+unsubscr...@accessindia.org.in.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
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-- 
Disclaimer:
1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the 
person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;

2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent 
through this mailing list..


Search for old postings at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"AccessIndia" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to accessindia+unsubscr...@accessindia.org.in.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/a/accessindia.org.in/d/msgid/accessindia/148a01d9ce9f%245328b940%24f97a2bc0%24%40gmail.com.

[AI] Are publishers in India obligated to provide soft copies to the blind on request?

[Avichal Bhatnagar]

Hello list members,
As the subject line indicates, I want to know that if a visually
impaired person requests a publisher for the soft copy of a book, is
the publisher obligated by law to provide the same? If so, then can he
be penalised for not fulfilling the request?
Today, I called a publisher in Mumbai and requested for the soft copy
of a book which is quite essential for my doctoral research; I was
willing to pay the price of the hard copy for the soft copy, but the
publisher's response was very callous and insensitive.
The book is not available as an ebook in any other format as well,
such as kindle.
He simply said that he would not provide the soft copy, and when I
told him that the book was not available in ebook anywhere, so he said
that I should read it when it becomes available.
I also told him that the book is a big one, so it'll take a lot of
time in getting it scanned and proofread, but he did not budge.
So, I request the legal experts on the list to please advise me as to
what will be the best course of action in this regard?
I am planning to sue the publisher in the court of the Chief
commissioner for persons with disability, please let me know if it is
a good step?
Please also explain about any other laws in this regard.
Thanks,
Avichal
-- 
Avichal Bhatnagar
Assistant professor at
Department of English, Sri Guru Nanak Dev Khalsa College
University of Delhi

Doctoral research scholar at
Department of humanities
Delhi Technological University (formerly Delhi college of engineering)

-- 
Disclaimer:
1. Contents of the mails, factual, or otherwise, reflect the thinking of the 
person sending the mail and AI in no way relates itself to its veracity;

2. AI cannot be held liable for any commission/omission based on the mails sent 
through this mailing list..


Search for old postings at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/accessindia@accessindia.org.in/
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"AccessIndia" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to accessindia+unsubscr...@accessindia.org.in.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/a/accessindia.org.in/d/msgid/accessindia/CADsKw8oAbo4-w%2BsT_NitY0uY53cQ2ziskP1H2fSLop4mRj6VnA%40mail.gmail.com.